New Jersey nurses charge religious discrimination over hospital abortion policy

[alp227]

A dozen nurses in New Jersey have rekindled the contentious debate over when health-care workers can refuse to play a role in caring for women getting abortions.

In a lawsuit filed in federal court Oct. 31, 12 nurses charge that the University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey violated state and federal laws by abruptly announcing in September that nurses would have to help with abortion patients before and after the procedure, reversing a long-standing policy exempting employees who refuse based on religious or moral objections.

“I’m a nurse so I can help people, not help kill, and it just doesn’t seem right to me,” said Beryl Otieno-Negoje, one of the nurses. “No health professional should be forced to choose between assisting abortion or being penalized at work.”

The University Hospital issued a statement that “no nurse is compelled to have direct involvement in, and/or attendance in the room at the time of, a procedure to which she or he objects based on his/her cultural values, ethics and/or religious beliefs.”

full: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/new-jersey-nurses-charge-religious-discrimination-over-hospital-abortion-policy/2011/11/15/gIQAydgm2N_singlePage.html

How about this: SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND MEDICINE (or any type of service involving medical/psychological/professional assistance)!!!

[TheDebbieDee]

1. I'm sick of this $hit! If you can't do your job because of your religion,

then you should either get a new job or get a new religion.........

[SheilaT]

2. Bingo!

I am quite tired of all these excuses not to help those who need help.

[Kurmudgeon]

4. Speaking of sick, imagine how the sick and injured would be if all believers left the profession.

Funny how living one's conscience goes out the window depending on the subject.

[TheDebbieDee]

5. If all the believers left the profession, I'm sure they would be replaced by

people who didn't have such ethical dilemmas.

And I'm sick of our society's assertion that someone else's conscience has more clout than my own conscience, simply because they believe in a certain book of fairytales.

[tomm2thumbs]

15. Exactly, and if they aren't willing to treat people at a whim, what good are they at all

I guess you'll have to have a big checklist to get through their 'Ok, I'll help this one' filter, and in the time it took to figure it out the person loses their battle for life.

Maybe they should look back to when doctors tried to save the enemy's lives during wars, as well as their own troops, because a medical practitioner's role is to practice medicine. Not proclaim 'serves you right' and then turn their backs on patients before them.

[meow2u3]

7. I beg to disagree with you on 1st Amendment grounds

First of all, no one should be forced to choose between their beliefs and their jobs. Conscientious objectors have as much right to security in the workplace, especially if they work for a public employer, whether the objection is over abortion or over war or the death penalty. The state has as much obligation to respect the rights of those who object to abortion as they do to objectors of war, internet censorship, and economic injustice.

The 1st amendment is a two-way street and applies as much to abortion objectors in hospitals as it does to Occupy protesters in the streets. Your position of "get another job or get another religion" is as ignorant, authoritarian, and intolerant as the right-wing ignorance and authoritarianism of repuke fundies.

[TheDebbieDee]

10. "First of all, no one should be forced to choose between their beliefs and their jobs."

Why not? People have to make choices every single day. Blues shoes or black shoes. Hair up or hair down? Private school or public school? Medicine A or medicine B? Fulfill the obligations of my job or risk making the man who lives in the sky mad at me?

You may not like all the choices that you have, but you do have choices. No one is forcing you to stay in that career - EVERYONE is replaceable. Especially someone who is so morally conflicted that they can no longer perform all the duties that their job requires.

Honestly, I just don't understand why some of you religious types torture yourselves by putting yourselves in situations that keep YOU conflicted and make the rest of us listen to you WHIIIIIIINE about it.

You forcing me to listen to your position of "I will stay in this job no matter what - even if I must do it half-assed because it compromises my religious beliefs. And because I want to be able to say that I am a victim of religious persecution if I don't get my way!" is as ignorant, authoritarian and intolerant as any other bigot.

[Paka]

17. Thank you! n/t

[idahoblue]

3. As a RN

Our hospital allows us to transfer care to another nurse. I don't think it benefits the patient to be in the care of someone who strongly objects to the procedure being done.. She needs someone compassionate and understanding. We have all been in the position of personal conflict possibly preventing delivering the best of care. That needs to be recognized by the caregivers and a different caregiver assigned. That process works best for everyone involved.

[TheDebbieDee]

6. I disagree, IdahoBlue. If caregivers have ethical dilemmas

then they should find a new line of work and make room for those who have no such dilemmas.

I work in an accounting department. I'm not able to pass my work off to a co-worker because I have issues with it. Why should you be able to do it? A job is a job. If you can't do all facets of the job, then you should feel encouraged (by your boss and your conscience) to find a new job! After all, everyone is replaceable..........and there really is no need to fulfill your Christian persecution complex.

Also, with the knowledge that overly religious caregivers may encounter such dilemmas, they should be encouraged to pursue other, less religiously conflicting professions.

[leftyohiolib]

8. "I'm not able to pass my work off to a co-worker " and therefore no one should be able to

because no one should be able to do anything that I cant do. haaaaarumph. btw in your line of work you arent called upon to deal with, or make, life and death decisions so the comparison's weak.

[TheDebbieDee]

9. Like I said before, if your job duties conflict with your religion, you should

give one or the other up.

No one is forcing you to stay in a career/field that challeges your moral obligations. So yes, my comparison IS just as valid as yours.

Haaaaaarumph right back at you,Ohio. Get off your high horse and get a job in which you are capable of performing ALL the duties involved. Or stop waving your Bible around.

[leftyohiolib]

19. what you said was "I'm not able to pass my work off to a co-worker "

your words not mine. and in case you didnt notice they WERE in a job that was in line with both professional and relgious ideas but in september the job changed the rules. that gives them te right to complain. i suggest YOU get of your high horse if you want an abortion there are still plenty of places togo. btw i dont have a high horse

[TheDebbieDee]

21. Wah. Wah. Wah. The job changed the rules........wah, wah.

Like I said, rule changes wouldn't be an issue if they simply did some research, got some re-training and entered another career field. Even whiners like you have the right and the choice to change careers to something less conflicting.

That way patients can receive quality care from caregivers whose only concern is caring for the patient, not lowly, flawed caregivers who are sitting in judgement on them.

A patient is a patient is a patient! You should treat and care for all patients - that's your job! If you can't do that, find a new job - it's just that simple.

[mwooldri]

24. Wrong: A patient is not a patient is not a patient. They are *not* items off a manufacturing line.

Nursing is a wide profession. Patients are individuals, just like human beings... wait... oh they are human beings.

IdahoBlue's position is the right and correct one. Example: you've been working with caring for newborns and their mothers for years. Then suddenly you're assigned to take care of people who are on their deathbeds, making sure their final days and hours are comfortable. Some people just cannot make the switch - they just can't do it. Doesn't matter that they follow the flying spaghetti monster or what have you. Doesn't matter that they would never take up firearms even if ordered to. They. Just. Cannot. Do. It.

So with the abortion issue - this particular hospital has decided that nurses are to deal with aspects of abortion that they cannot personally bring themselves to deal with. Religion is cited here but it is more psychological than theological. To force a nurse to deal with abortion issues who cannot psychologically face it is just like asking a zookeeper who has arachnophobia to tend to the spider exhibit.

There is a job and there is a role. I have a job and a role. I can change my role but keep my job at the same place, doing a lot of the same stuff I do already.

[freshwest]

22. +1

[mwooldri]

23. I stand with IdahoBlue.

Health professionals get reassigned from one patient to another all the time, and not even on moral grounds. The patient may decide that a particular carer is incompetent, hostile, or just not "caring enough" towards them and requests to be cared for by someone else - and refuses help from the caregiver that the patient has an issue with.

Nursing cannot really be compared with accounting. The amount of face to face time, the amount of empathy and understanding that must be demonstrated, and the whole relationship issue is on a completely different level than working with accounting.

I will agree with you though on one point: those who have moral objections have a duty not to put themselves directly into situations wheir their morals are compromised. There's lots of nursing opportunities where the abortion issue is highly unlikely to come up. Like the paediatric ward, or the geriatric ward, or even the Intensive Care ward.

[tomm2thumbs]

16. So if someone believed interracial marriage was a sin, they should not help deliver a baby?

or even care for the mother up to, and after the birth at the very least?

Curious how that fits in your view of things regarding this, or at least where does one draw the line?

[blkmusclmachine]

11. Those nursies ought to go work in a Convent, then.

Or maybe they just chose the WRONG line of work.

[Politicalboi]

12. I agree with TheDebbie Dee

They need to find another job, or find another nursing job where you won't have to be forced to take a temperature, or give a shot to a woman who just had an abortion. They are not asking them to perform the abortion. If they can't do it because of their beliefs, they need to find another line of work.

[tomm2thumbs]

14. +1000! What next? They don't believe in helping Mormons, the uncircumcised or gay patients?

Oh, wait... better yet, how about those who they consider to be the devil-spawn...? Patients who practice Islam...! That's a more obvious target for these bigots and they'll take it in a second. Perhaps they should be able to also withhold services from people who have sex out of wedlock, or atheists - afterall, that would be supporting the enemy of their beliefs, no? What about a member of a gang or someone who has been convicted of murder?

THEY aren't being asked to perform an abortion but general services to patients. Frankly, it is none of their business to judge why a patient is there. If they have a problem with any medical practices legal in this country, then they should leave the practice. I'm sure they'll be welcomed elsewhere with open arms...

...not so much...

[awoke_in_2003]

13. if you cannot participate in medical procedures...

do not join the medical field. Plain and fucking simple (and religious pharmacists can go fuck themselves, too).

[PADemD]

18. Simple solution, don't work in obstetrics

[Wait Wut]

20. While I don't agree with the nurses charge...

...I will defend their position. While it disgusts me that someone in a profession that exists to HELP people would refuse service to a patient, their hypocrisy should be protected. We are offered vegetarian/vegen meals in most public places. Many places offer meals to suit different faiths. While you may not respect or understand a person's beliefs, it's necessary to practice tolerance and acceptance. I'm sure there are plenty of other nurses that would take their place, if these nurses feel that they can no longer work in a facility that offers abortion services.

I honestly would prefer these nurses didn't have any access to these particular patients. No telling what kind of psychological trauma they could inflict.

[avebury]

25. Obstetrics nursing is not the only area in which a nurse can get a job.

If a nurse has religious objections to abortion then that nurse has NO BUSINESS working with pregnant woman - period. There are a lot of other areas in which he/she could work as a nurse. I am tired of them playing the martyr card and claiming that they are being religiously persecuted. They are the ones putting themselves in that position. The nursing profession is not a profession where it is hard to find a job. If they cannot fulfill all of the obligations of their profession when working with pregnant women then they need to move on and find another nursing job.

[AmericaIsGreat]

26. My issue is that religious sensibilities are stupid

And based on the ancient mythology of desert-dwelling tribes from millenia ago. They have no legitimacy.

How about that? I mean, seriously, when will we finally stop being sensitive to conflicts that arise from ignorance and superstition?

At the least, I see no reason we can't say, "If your job conflicts with your religious beliefs, you'll have to choose one." This is specific to the DUTIES in this line of profession. This is not some voluntary participation activity into which these nurses are being forced.

Now, I don't think it's a HUGE deal if there is someone else available to take their place but having to keep track of who is going to back up a nurse whose religious values are offended by a particular task seems unnecessary and, in my opinion, wholly unjustified given the basis upon which those values are formed: mythology.

[queenjane]

27. Well said! (n/t)