The Relentless Christian Crusade to Prevent Kids from Learning Science

[marmar]

via AlterNet:




Church & State Magazine / By Rob Boston

The Relentless Christian Crusade to Prevent Kids from Learning Science
Religious Right strategies to introduce fundamentalist Christianity into public school science classes have (ironically) evolved over the years.

July 11, 2011 |


The debate that took place on the floor of the Tennessee House of Representatives in April could not exactly be described as a feast for the intellect.

Legislators were deliberating a bill that would open the door to creationism in public schools by requiring schools to “find effective ways” to teach about three “controversial” ideas: evolution, global warming and human cloning.

The discussion quickly degenerated into name-calling when one bill supporter called opponents “intellectual bullies,” reported the Knoxville News Sentinel.

One lawmaker even tried to press Albert Einstein into service. Rep. Frank Niceley, a Republican from Strawberry Plains, asserted that Einstein once said, “A little knowledge would turn your head to atheism, while a broader knowledge would turn your head to Christianity.” .............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/151587/the_relentless_christian_crusade_to_prevent_kids_from_learning_science/

[no_hypocrisy]

1. More like preventing kids how to think critically.

In science, you have a format of testing theories with evidence, not faith.

[midnight]

23. Kids are taught to test and not to think?

[no_hypocrisy]

28. The OP was about Science being discouraged from being taught.

My point was that Science is a discipline that would most likely threaten the fundamentalist due to its format of a premise or a theory, testing, observation, evidence, and conclusion as opposed to accepting a premise as a conclusion without the process of testing its validity.

To your point, yes, testing discourages critical thinking beyond being taught a formula to be utilized when answering questions on a standardized test. To think beyond a concept has no real purpose when the primary purpose is to take a test and achieve a good score.

[BiggJawn]

2. The Dominionists don't want smart childrem

Smart children grow up to be smart adults who will control the amount of offspring they produce and won't accept illegal military orders without question.

Educated people don't make good Serfs, which is what the Dominionists want in order to have a steady supply of cannon fodder to pursue their agenda of conquering the whole world so Jeebus will return.

[Diclotican]

3. marmar

marmar

What???? How stupid are this madness... Critical thinking, and knowlegde is paramount for kids and its its important, to kids who is growing up, to learn how to thing critical about things.. And Evolution are not "controversial", its a fact.. Human cloning are still verry controversial, specially on etical level, And Im sure its a long way before human cloning are little more than theoretic mind-growing for most peopole.. And Im not sure if human cloning is feasible even 20 or 30 year in the future.. To build up a human, have shown to be far more difficult than everyone predicted...
Global warming are also not excactly controversial.. Even tho it exist a lot of meanings around the case, it is not to doubt, that warming of the planet is a danger to life itself-.. And even if the theories is off the marks, new modern tecnology, with far less polution is the future.. And it is also a case in it self, to try to invent something that is on the same level as Oil and sheaper to manufacture, as oil production wil go down as we use it up... In the "star trek universe", it is not befor 2063, that oil was repleased by something else... But I guess, that is sience fiction foremost..

Education, the knowlegde that make kids think critical is something that is really important.. And children need a broad knowlegde about the world, they are growing up in also.. You can learn Creationism in shurch at sunday, but it have nothing in public schools..

Diclotican

[Uncle Joe]

9. Their madness is fed by a fear of losing power and/or control.

The strength or foundation of their faith is based on a literal interpretation of a book which was written by humans almost 2000 year ago and which has been revised by humans multiple times ever since.

With science in general and evolution in particular being very strong winds, their faith is as an oak tree; that gives them shelter, it doesn't bend when the hard wind blows until the stiff tree splinters.

Their strict dogmatism actually reminds me of the Pharisees; during the days of Jesus always trying to trip him up over perceived transgressions against the literalism of the Old Testament as they were quick to promote the letter of the law over the spirit of the law.

Jesus wasn't science but the dynamics of absolutism being used by the Pharisees as a defense against losing power and control are the same.

[Diclotican]

12. Uncle Joe

Uncle Joe

True.. Some have a literal interpretation of the Bible.. Writen by humans, more than 2000 year ago.. (In fact, some part of the bible is more than 3000 year ago) And have been translated, and revised by humans many times since the first profets was writing the things they was seying as important for the flock.. Even tho the bible is a book, who can give advices, even today how to live your life, doing good to others and so one. it a old book, and many millenias have going from when the old profets was typing it down, to today, when knowlegde and sience have been far more advanced than it was 2000 year ago..

Faith can be some that everyone can help people in troubled times.. I know it from my personal experiences.. But I do also read a lot, not just the Bible and other holly books.. But also a lot of information, and knowlegde about the rest of the world.. You can read the bible, beliving it as it is. And be able to understand the rest also.. That be about evolution, and sience in general..

Dogmatism is dangrous, becouse it dosen't give room for information about the world outside your own little oak tree.. Even the priest and profets of old time, was able to get new information of the world, even sience who might have been shown as dangrous for the ages.. Dogmatic thinking is far from what the bible say we should do..

And it is also about power, and control. In Europe, the fight between Evolution and the bible have been lost for many, many years, maybe houndred of years.. But then, again in Europe, you tend also to have a strong public school system, made up by governments who are in control over what is educated.. As I understand it, education is more up to eatch state in US, and you also have a lot of private school in the mix too.. And home-schooling also.. Education is a powerfull tool, to get knowlegde about the world and the siences even if you dosen't excactly like everything yourself.. But at least you have a shoice either to understand it, or reject it..

Fanatism, Dogmatism, is the opposite of what Jesus Christ was teatching about in the days.. End Dogmatism and Fanatism, shold not be the main stream christian belife today either.. Fanatism is dangrous, it just breed hate for "the others" and hate is a danger, who can do mutch harm...

Diclotican

[Uncle Joe]

13. My mistake, thanks for the correction, Diclotican.

I knew the Old Testament is older than 2000 years, I must have subconsciously dated the Bible as a whole to after Jesus.

As for the ebb and flow of religious literalism, I believe there may be a correlation between political or imperial power and that of religious fundamentalism, with empires or superpowers needing to have the people support vast armies over that of critically needed domestic programs would benefit from divide and conquer strategies, using emotion to trump logic and reason.

So the powers that be of an empire nation, superpower or one ruled by religious or royal autocrats lend their vast resources to supporting or promoting strict religious literalism that either outright supports the government as a "national religion" or at least works to divide the people of that nation making them easier to rule.

I believe that's why Europe is better balanced today than it was in the past and I believe that's why religious literalism is such a force in the U.S. today.

Uncle Joe.

[Enthusiast]

25. Good post.

:popcorn:

[popsicle ricky]

11. marmar, you are the nuts

I find your expression to be fitting a thoughtful, spiritual, intellectual, christian, american, point of view. I hope I can count on you to share any further insight you might have on this or any other of the important issues of this critical point in our present and in our future.
The USA American people will be looking forward to your next post.

[awoke_in_2003]

14. You sir, live in a civilized country...

which is why you are having a hard time understanding our stupidity.

[Diclotican]

20. awoke_in_2003

awoke_in_2003

Sad to say yea.. But I guess US also wil wake up, before it is to late.. And undo the damage this madmen/women are doing to your country.. US can still be one of the best places to be educated, if you shoose to...

And US is still a country of great civilization, even tho I fear it wil take a long time to undo the 8 year of Bush, and the last 30 year of religious fanatism...

Diclotican

[awoke_in_2003]

21. sir, i hope you are right. nt

[Diclotican]

22. awoke_in_2003

awoke_in_2003

As long as enough peopole have hope, it is posible to change everything to the better.. And I do hope for the best, it would be a sad day, if US was to fall down, and be repleased by extremism.. Then I fear the whole world are into a bumpy ride..

In many ways, US is one of the few country's in the world, who keep the insane in check.. When the rest of the world are not willing, or able to do what should be doing, US often step in, and is doing it.. And I also hope, that when you have been trying it the wrong way, you allways have had a ability to do it, the right way in the end..

US is a great nation, and could be far greater, if you shoose to..

Diclotican

[Blue_Tires]

15. Eight years of Bush Jr. brought out a lot of anti-science types

And now they are accepted by a large part of the voting public instead of mocked and discredited...

[Diclotican]

19. Blue_Tires

Blue_Tires

True.. In most of Europe, this groups are discredited and mocked, to the level where they NEVER wil get into a office of power.. Most of them is not dangrous at all.. and the dangrous ones, are either carefull enough to not play it to hard and loss of everything.. Or they are ridiculed, mocked and discredited to a level, where no one want to have anything with them at all...

But in US, after 8 year with the nightmare of mr Bush, they can get into office, by many and destroying a lot of what made US so great... The posibility of EDUCATION, was one of the things, that made US so great.. And still is making US one hell of a country...

Diclotican

[xchrom]

4. recommend

[Kurmudgeon]

5. Just one sect of Christianity, the vast majority have no problem with it.

[Raster]

6. Not necessarily true.

There is no heaven and there is no hell.
There are no angels. There are no devils or demons.
There is only our natural world, alive and constant all around us.
Religion is but myth and superstition; denying logic and defying fact.
Religious conviction hardens hearts. Religious faith enslaves minds.

[SkyDaddy7]

8. I could not agree more!

It is really SAD & SCARY when you see just how ridiculously religious most Americans are! It is far more than just "one sect" that is ignorant to what science is & what should be taught in public school science classes!

http://www.gallup.com/poll/19207/most-americans-engaged-debate-about-evolution-creation.aspx

[SkyDaddy7]

7. "One sect"?? MOST Christians/Americans think...

evolution & creationism should be taught in Public School Science class...This is obviously ABSURD & is far more than "One Sect" of Christianity. I guess one could say this has more to do with American's utter ignorance when it comes to understanding what constitutes "science"...But still it is beyond absurd that so many Americans think this way!

53% of Americans think the Christian god created humans in the current form just as the Bible says...Strict Creationist! SCARY!

31% Think humans evolved from other lifeforms with divine guidance...Intelligent Design! SCARY!

12% Agree that humans evolved from other lifeforms w/o any divine guidance...DISGUSTINGLY SAD!!

Some polls have the number slightly lower & some even higher but regardless none of them are good news at all!


http://www.gallup.com/poll/19207/most-americans-engaged-debate-about-evolution-creation.aspx

[Diclotican]

10. SkyDaddy7

SkyDaddy7

The world are larger than United States of America.. And I know a few, who are cristian by faith, but who are in fields, where they had to have a pretty good understanding of Sience for doing their job properly..

But, that might be becouse in most of the world outside US, education is important (as it once was in US too) and most of the world are indeed able to have a difference between what they learn in school, and what they learn in Church by their ministers.. I have no problems with Sience, or evolution, or natural selection and so one.. I have my cristian belife, but it dosen't harm me, if I know a few things about the world, even things that might be little different from what I belive in.. To be educated is the best way of making the right shoices, even if the shoices is different from your parents.. Or others you have in your near familiy..

I just dosen't have any troubles with evolution, and other tools who have been all over the world - and universe for many, many billions of years... I have my belife, but I do read Darwins also... And is reading information from all over the place.. As we human should do.. Be educated - and take the right desissions.. That important

And I hope, that I can, when its time is coming, learning my children both love for Christ, but also the importance of beeing educated, and to have knowlegde about the rest of the world.. Even if the knowlegde is troublesome, and counter to what you know, or belive in before you was starting reading...

Diclotican

[SkyDaddy7]

16. I agree with everything you said but...

I was specifically talking about the US & the dangers that come with teaching children creationism or ID or astrology or new age magic or anything but SCIENCE! Science is about observation, experimentation, asking questions that are falsifiable, etc., & this is lost once the supernatural is taught as science to children who know no better!

I understand fully that there are many Christians who are at ease with both their religious beliefs & science...More so in Europe than in America. We are crazy!

[Diclotican]

18. SkyDaddy7

SkyDaddy7

Many years ago, maybe 13 or 14 year ago, I was in fact talking about the posibility of a new "dark age" with some.. The posibility that religious zeal could make it to a new age of "darkness" for knowlegde, where education, and understandig of the siences was underground, and teatch under danger of prosecution and even arrest, prison and death.. Of course it was just mind spin, as the posibility of a new dark age, where less than second to non.. Today Im not that sure about the posibility of not made it to a new dark age, where a lot of our knowlegde are either in the hand of the few, prosecuted and in danger if peopole are to know about it, or outright forbidden, as dangrous knowlegde against the will of the Good...

The supernatural have a place - in a shurch setting, where educated priest, and ministers can educate children about how the Lord made the earth.. But the supernatural should not be teatched in school, instead of the siences.. I would say that in school, kids should be educated to be peopole able of making their own desision if they want to belive in supernatural beeing, or the lack therof.. If children have the education to understand, then they on their own will, wil accept what they know is "right" in the end.. In many european country's religous belife, is teatched in classes in both grade school and higher schools.. But in a setting where it is clear, what the bounderies are or not.. Not INSTEAD of sience and education about the world outside our little world home..

And I am absolutely in agreement, that children should by observation, experimentation, asking questions, what is falsiable and not, get a whole understanding of their envirmoment and what is posible and not.. But fanatical dogmatic extreme form of belife, is dangrous and damaging for everyone hurt by it.. And not every child have parents, who can guide, and give knowlegde that they might not get in school.. Not everyone had between 10.000 and 15.000 books home when they was growing up, as I had;)..

Europe might have exported most of their extremist to the US, in the 1700s, and 1800s, when church in Europe was figthing for power and money.. For many government, the export of their dogmatic flocks to US, was a saftey valve, for the political, and religious infight, that was treating to destroy the fabric of government in many country... Many who emigrated to US, from the 1600s and forward, US was one of few places, where they could celebrate their belife in peace, when government wanted, or was making a lot of repressing when it came to what type of religous belife you could have or not.. The old "the kings religion, is the subjects religion" was not just a expression for most of Europe until the end of world war 1.. And the lines between Catholic south and north-west protestantic was as strong as the lines between east and west was under the cold war in Europe..

Most of the "Old order" was destroyed in Europe under world war two, it was deadly damamed in world war one, but in world war two, it was not just old buildings that was destroyed. also a whole consept of thinking, and most of the old "order" of the world, was destroyed, and was never put togheter again.. When Europe had to put everything togheter, rebuild everything that was destroyed.. We had to start more or less all over again.. And the whole continent was made a whole different place, than it was before.. Even the cold war, with their idelogical wiews, could not change the fact, that Europe of the 1950, 1960s and 1970s was not as it was in the 1900s, 1910s, 1920s or 1930s.. Eductation was made paramount for both sides of the political divide, and in two generations, the whole idealogy and therefore also religious belife, was shanged also.. Religion have been a personal matter, that most of us, dosen't want to push unto others.. Not in the same way as we did before then..

US are a country who have some great sientific minds, some of the best minds in the world, are either US by birth, or have been living in US for many years.. You have som great minds, who have made a lot of our life of today posible.. But US have also their fair share of nutcases and people who in other times, would have been closed up in mental hospitals, or outright arrested and put into prison.. In most of Europe, peopole who act out is in this matter, is either helped to better ways of express themselfs.. or put into wards, where they could be cared for, given some medicine, and hopefully, in the end came back as "usable peopole" in the end..

In US, you wote them into office, even the presidency, and call it democracy... Even when they twist everything, and the outright LIE is all to se, you is able to make them more and more powerfull.. In the end, US can end up as a theocracy, ruled by divine "rulers" and by the old testamente, rather than secular laws... So yes.. many in US is CRAZY.. Dangrousely Crazy, as US also have a lot of nuclear weapons at their disposel, and if a president are willing to end it, it can end pretty nasty in 30-45 minutes time..

Diclotican

[SkyDaddy7]

24. You have about the same vision...

of history & the present day I do...Thanks for sharing!

[Diclotican]

26. SkyDaddy7

SkyDaddy7

We have proberly read the same booksB-) Or at least been posible to understand it, the same way mostly..

Diclotican

[SkyDaddy7]

29. Probably true...

I think it has to do with being able to step back & think critically...If we undermine the education of our children then we undermine our own future...However, people that are so emotionally tied to the idea that there is a god who will take care of them as long as they stay loyal and/or this god will be returning in their lifetime then they will never be able to see the dangers of reality.

I live in the deep south & folks down here are so deeply religious, under educated & really do think America should be a Christian Theocracy...Even the "educated" advocate the same things as many of them have gone to private Christains schools & then to Christian Universities. Although they do not use the term "Christian Theocracy" but the ideas that they would like to see implemented would literally create a Christian Theocracy. This is very scary because there is almost no chance of changing people's minds when they literally think there is a dictator god who will punish them & their children if they do not fight the so-called LIBERALS & the "godless".

I am an Agnostic/Atheist & I have read the Bible & if Jesus was anything he was a LIBERAL well before his time! Everything he was for is almost exactly OPPOSITE what most American Christians are today! They have allowed their belief system to be POLITICIZED to the point it bears no resemblance to what their so-called "Son of God" taught to his followers 2000yrs ago! And so now they have no respect for the planet despite it being "God's creation", they value wealth more than their fellow human being, they despise the poor & are very much PRO WAR! NONE of which meshes with what I know the Bible says Jesus taught!

Like I said i live in the deep south & I talk to Christians all the time. And while I do have a couple of Christian friends who understand the importance of a a proper education & have no issue with science & actually embrace what it has done for humanity...These people are rare! Most that I talk to have been so mislead in my opinion as most really don't know the Bible only what they have been taught in church or hear from their friends. Like I said Christianity has been so politicized since the 80's & most have no clue! It is really SAD that these people think science is simply OPINION that is out to destroy god because that is what they have been taught to think. They think if their kids learn about Evolution that they will lose their morals if they find out the evolved from lower life forms! WTF!! However, my feelings of sorry quickly evaporate because these people have also been taught to really HATE others like Catholics & other more Liberal Christians, gays, women's rights, science, etc., And they VOTE!!

Anyway, I am very worried at the direction we are headed here in America.

[Diclotican]

32. SkyDaddy7

SkyDaddy7

To give our children, the posibility of critical thinking, and a good education, is one of the best gifts we can ever hope to give our children.. If children learn to be critical of things they are been told, and to explore the world, and all what are in it, they might be able to understand the world better than their parents, that would say us is able to do.. To undermine that fundation, as a good education give our children, is doing more harm to a country, than everthing else that can harm a country.. I belive strongly in a good education for everyone, and that every country should be given the posibility to have a god public education, combined with a great public healt-care system. This have been one of the corner stones of Europas sucess before the war, and after world war two.. And was also one of the reasons US was so sucessfull after world war two, when generous education benefits for soldiers coming home from Europe and the pacific, was making it able for many who never would have getting a decent education, to be given it after serving the country.. That was the real reason, behind US landing on the moon in 1969, ahead of USSR who also had a rocket ready to go to the moon, but who blow up on stand, and then US was on the moon.. And more or less ended the moon race for the Russians..

For what I have figured out been on this site, and reading a lot of other sites over the years, it looks like many who claim to be christians, dosen't really know what it means.. It not just going to church now and then, and be told what christianity is all about.. It is also about learn what is in the bible for yourself. And to understand why the bible is at is is.. it took me years to understand parts of the bible, even tho I do know a few things about the history around the bible, history have allways been a hobby of me, so I have allways been reading history.. But even then, it took me years, and years to understand the bible, and even today I would say I have just a grasp of it all.. Many dosen't even want to go the way, to understand or to get knowlegde about the bible, and the ideas behind it all.. Sometimes I wish my uncle still was alive, and could learn me some, as he understood the holy book well.. To really understand the bible, you have to read, and re-read the holy book, and try to understand, and punder about it all.. Not everyone want, or is able to do that. And instead trust their ministers and others, to teatch them the "truth":. And that is dangrous, becouse many, if not everyone have a difference of oppinion of what the bible is about.. And it is verry easy to cut corners, when it came to reading the bible.. To take out whole consepts, of the bible, and twist the verses to your own oppinion.. Therefore, it is IMPORTANT to be able to read the bible for yourself, and to be able to understand what it really says.. Not just blindly follow a minister, who might not be the best person, when he are on a crusade..
For me, who are on the outside, many ministers in US, are using their power, to make political statements, rather than help the needy, protect the poor and defendless, and no respct for that someone else, might disagree with you in ideas.. That is wrong, as churches, and independes should never use their power, to make political statements.. Or hope for a theocracy.. Theocracy, is dangrous, and is more difficult to get rid off, when first started.. Just think about the iranians, where 2/3 of the population want more freedom, and a liberation from the more conservative theologicans.. It wil take a long time, before Iran wil get out of that troubled water - if not US are trying it best to galanize the conservatives to make life worse for the rest then..

I have never had any troubles about the evolution, as it is mor or less proven withouth doubt what happend for millions of year.. We are the sum of every life who have been before us, and sometimes Im not sure it was a great things, that our ancestors, milions years ago, desided it was smart to try to get on two foots;).. Oh wel, they did, and we are that result.. For me, Christianity is more a spiritual thing.. Its little difficult to explain it, but it make myself a better person.. But then, im not fanatical and accept most people as they are, regardness of where you stand.. And I also accept that sience is part of our life, regardness of what we might else have in mind... Sience can be a great tool, to make life better than it is today.. Just think about how the world have changed becouse of a computer.. When I was 12, a computer cost a fortune (literally) and was few between.. Today computers is sheap, and even then, the posibilites a computer have, is far greater than I guess some would have belived just a decade ago.. And on every level in life, sience have made our life better than it was before.. As it should be I guess...

Sience is not a opinion, its a fact.. And it is a fact that life, startet somewhere, in a greasy pound of water, and alot of other stuff, and then startet a long, and often dangrous jurney, who are not over yet, to more advanced and better life as the eons passed.. it took just 4 billion years to get where we are today.. It just a guess where life wil be, in 4 billion year time..

I doubt that Jesus Crist would have understood his own teatching, if he had been able to came down to us today.. Many have tvisted the meanings of his teatchings, to something that it might never had been..

When the time cames, I wil learn my children, about everything I can learn them, evolution of life, and how the world was made, according to the bible.. It wil be up to the children, when they came at age, to deside what they want to belife or not. It is important to learn, how to love eatch other, and to accept others. That be catolics, other shurchs, and so one..

And i also strongly belife that everyone should have the same rights.. And duties under the laws.. I try to accept everyone even if they are living a life I am not perfectly comfortable with.. I have a few gay friends, who have been honest, and open with me, about their gayness, and they accept my attitude, and I accept their attitude.. In fact I have had some really interesting conservations with them, about a lot of things.. Sometimes they might be little to blunt, but for the most part, I have learned a lot, and might even understood a lot more than i did before..

I also fear the way US are going, mostly becouse I really fear the posibility that they might get into real power, as in the White House.. And then, they might even clings to the White house, as long as they human can do.. US is not imune to the same falldowns as the rest of the world, just becouse US managed to get clean for 235 years, are not the same as US are not been able to go the same way as others have been the last couple of thousands of year. US and the World, dodget the bullet when GWB was in office, but just.. Everything is posible, next time a nutcase like GWB got into office.. He might be far worse than GWB was, even on his worst of days.. It exist many in US right, who belife they can force the rapture on the world...

Diclotican

[Kurmudgeon]

17. My son had very good grades in science. Not all share the anti-science attitude.

And no where near as some may assume.

[GillesDeleuze]

27. but are you willing to be scientific about your own beliefs?

virgin birth, miracles, spirits?

[Kurmudgeon]

30. Mankind doen't possess all knowledge, are you willing to admit you're operating on faith very often?

Miracles and spirits are just names given to things by people who either didn't understand or weren't there.
You'll have to decide for yourself what you believe.
As for the one instance of virgin birth I believe you allude to, you'll either have to take word of the account given or not.
There were no pediatricians amongst the writers of The Bible then, sorry.

[formercia]

31. Interesting statement considering Einstein was a Jew.

I think Rep. Frank Nicely pulled that one out of his ass.

From the link below:

The above is a charming moment from the Tennessee House of Representatives floor. Republican (obviously) state representative Frank Nicely argues that Albert Einstein would have wanted creationism to be taught alongside evolution in public schools, because "Albert Einstein said that a little knowledge would turn your head toward atheism, while a broader knowledge would turn your head toward Christianity." Nope!

As Brad Johnson at ThinkProgress notes, Einstein was a) Jewish, b) a professed agnostic, and c) never said that quote (it's a butchered version of something Francis Bacon wrote in the 1500s). Better luck next time, wingnuts!

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/04/tennessee_state.php