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Goose3five Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 01:25 PM
Original message
Is the Era of American Optimism Dead?
Is the Era of American Optimism Dead?

Sorry for the cross-posting (no I'm not) but there are days when you write something that you feel needs to get some traction and the gods of the inter-webs are not cooperative. I know the good folks here at DU are always willing to provide feedback so have at it.

-mikey
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Koch brothers are very optimistic right now
So are the politicians they employ.
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Populist_Prole Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hey, no worry. Thanks for the link and having this out for all to see.
We need all the traction we can get.

Optimism has been dying for the past 25 years. About the only optimistic ones were right wing pundits extolling the virtues of tech gadgets, cheap stuff from China in Wal-Mart, and rah-rah pro-military bullshit. All that is empty calories to my hunger for morale.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think I'm about 15 years older than you....
Edited on Sat Feb-26-11 03:18 PM by femrap
so as far as I'm concerned the optimism died in 1980 with Raygun. It has been downhill ever since. Some say the Decline started in the 1970's.

We are living The Decline of the American Empire. There is simply no way to deny it. Wages have been stagnate for years. The middle class is getting smaller and smaller. This 'Great Recession' is a Depression.

Where I live middle-aged and older women are standing on street corners in the nice shopping areas holding cardboard signs asking for money so their kids can eat. That's a Depression. I always pull over and roll down my window. I keep dollar bills in my glove box.

You should see all the fancy cars whiz by me. I am ashamed of what has become of my country.

Today I attended a Protest Rally in Columbus, OH against SB 5 which wants to get rid of Collective Bargaining for State Workers....TEACHERS, for God's sake. The turnout was modest....none of the OSU students showed up....and they're just up High Street a few miles from the Capitol.

No, I'm a realist and in all honesty, I see nothing to look forward to. Most americans are consumers, not citizens. They have their heads so far up their asses in Denial that it's impossible to have a decent conversation with most of them unless it's about some celebrity or stupid TV show.

This Depression is just going to get worse. The debt and the derivative mess was never fixed....we just gave $787 billion to the Banksters. It was the Biggest. Heist. Ever.

I am glad to see that the oppressed of the Middle East and Northern Africa are standing up...that gives me goosebumps. What courage. What bravery. I am to proud to see them fight for their Freedom and Liberty. Americans have given their rights away...all in the name of FEAR.

The US of A has over 850 military bases across the world. That's where all our money is going....and of course, interest on the debt. We gotta pay China all that interest or they won't loan us anymore money.

Bottom line: There's too many people and not enough resources. I wouldn't have anymore children.

The really big shit is getting ready to hit the fan.

I'm sorry I'm such a downer, but you asked. You shouldn't ask questions that you really don't want the answers to.

Maybe if I could move to Provence in France, I wouldn't be so blue. But I'm currently stuck in the former state of Ohio, now called Dumfukistan.

eta: Welcome to DU. How's Braddock, PA doing? I think the town was featured on 'Now' which used to be on PBS, but it too is gone.
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Goose3five Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Not really a downer...
...just a realist and yes I asked didn't I? It is a depressing situation and to be quite honest I am a bit of a hypocrite these days. You see, just a bit over three years ago my "American" corporation offered me a transfer (along with my wife and daughter) to Vancouver B.C. Canada. It was a difficult decision to leave PA and our families back East but how could I pass up the opportunity to go to a place where basic human needs of the population, like health care, are a right? As a political blogger since 2003 this move has proved to be complex but in the end I continue as I am still an American, just an ex-pat.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Maybe you could adopt me????
That's the best part of Canada, imho. I lived in the Bay Area....great weather, great people, great nature.

There should be an emoticon for 'green w/ envy.'
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Goose3five Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. ;-)
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. The emphasis on outer space as a symbol of optimism
in the 1960's and Americans ownership of their destiny - to me - is misplaced. That is a fundamental problem that I have with the argument in this article. Having said that, I do agree with its conclusions that optimism is dead.

My first point is that to define 'success' with science and technological achievement is fundamentally flawed. What about the social reasons for optimism in the 1960's - the civil rights, peace movements were equally pivotal and phenomenal...more was happening than just the success of the moon landing...I will not go into the debates of whether or not there is value in the space program vis a vis the drain of resources as well as the association of the space program with the military industrial complex. That is a second problem I have with the logic of the argument.

Losses within budgets of the space program are not in themselves causes for loss of optimism. But I think society's loss of a voice contributes to that loss of optimism and that we're facing overwhelming consequences for our inability to address core fundamental flaws - related to social justice, peace and the environment.

Yet while there is a failure to act - or a failure of will as Al Gore would say, we do have the material and capacity and scientific know-how to address those problems...

For example a recent post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x590196

addresses the concept of new paradigm shifts that will address the environmental crises we now face -yet there are so many power structures in place that prevent those shifts - it will take nothing short of a miracle to bring such changes to fruition..Although Wann's book about the end of afluenza is one of many solutions that would work, I don't think that the solutions are in the play-books and this absence of control and lack of faith in traditional governments and power structures to solve these problems is the source of pessimism.
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Goose3five Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I don't claim that all optimism came from science....
only that "my" life has been framed by that theme. Good response though and thank you.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks for the link and for sharing thoughts
on this interesting subject!:hi:
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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. To me it helps to remind myself that what often appears as solid
and unmoving is really an illusion. Everything is part of bigger cycles and processes, nothing is permanent. Part of change is destruction as well as construction, and we are definitely in a time of great flux. The trick is to seek out constructive possibilities, it is not easy.
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Goose3five Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Very true
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TwentyFive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
13. Hate and Greed got married in 1980 and gave birth to Reagan,
People endure suffering because they get a sick satisfaction knowing that minorities are suffering more.

When Reagan spoke about ending the "Ghetto Welfare Queen driving a new Cadillac" people associated welfare with minorities...and cutting welfare, meant cutting up minorities. Ever since, the right has used this model to eliminate every law or program that benefits people. For the past 30 years, students, immigrants, gays, teachers, union members, minorities, the poor, foreigners, liberals, intellectuals, atheists, Jews, factory workers, single parents, etc....have been used as scapegoats in the rightwing takeover of our country.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
14. It was kicked in the stomach by destructive confusing compromises.
Edited on Sun Feb-27-11 11:34 AM by Overseas
Many of us naive souls had a surge of optimism in 2008, thinking that surely, after the Bush GOP Crash and their national security crashes too, we would finally get a 21st Century FDR plan and Democrats would be democratic again, focusing on the greater good rather than the prosperous few.

But instead of saying "step aside, GOP! You crashed our economy!" Our Democrats pretended they needed to compromise. Instead of saying-- The Bush Crash put millions into foreclosure, we need Medicare for All right now. Millions are suffering and we can't imagine how a compassionate country would burden its citizens facing foreclosure with shouldering the soaring privatized medical expenses that have forced so many into bankruptcy-- we saw bailouts for the super rich and compromising for months and months on protecting the most vulnerable.

During that interval, cruel right wing PR machines cranked up their "genuine grass roots support" activities, getting the scared, angry vulnerable citizens to storm town halls against the very attempts to strengthen good government protections for our poorest people.

And this naive Democrat for decades (me) had to wonder why Democratic legislators would not have known the right wing which had been consolidating and extending its power since Ronald Reagan would not continue doing so. They had to know that the only way for them to secure power was to revive good government in a big way.

"Medicare for All," while unfashionably compassionate, would have put more money into the pockets of suffering citizens, which they would have spent locally, on daily necessities, thus helping their local economies.

Massive jobs programs to repair our national infrastructure which had been allowed to crumble under the Bush Gang's All War policies may have been roundly denounced by Republicans but they, too, would have pumped more cash into local economies and helped them stay afloat.

But my Democratic legislators played the Gotta Compromise game which the ruthless GOP does not do. My Democrats pretended we were back in the old days of Nixon (who would be condemned as a socialist today)in which Republicans made a few compromises to protect the environment and some government assistance for the needy. My Democrats cut back on the very policies that would have most improved our economy and the ruthless Right capitalized on people's continuing misery. My Democrats sometimes compromised even before the debate had really gotten going.

Millions of us were very optimistic about going green. It was to be the counterweight to the suffering after the Bush/GOP Supply Side Crash. Even though millions had been devastated by the crash, we would all be working together to add conservation and alternative energy technologies into repairing our crumbling bridges and levees. We would be working together to introduce green technologies so we could use oil more conservatively because we know we will still need oil for decades to come.

We were ready, willing and excited about supporting a democratic renewal and rebalancing of our economy. That more realistic, scientific approach to our country's future would have included supporting the space program.

Green technolgies would also strengthen our national security but we are still supposed to pretend that brutal warfare is the way to go. We're supposed to be delighted that there has been a bit of talk about cutting 38 billion from military spending over the next ten years. Even though our legislators cut ACORN funding because of an allegation of fraud, while continuing to deal with military contractors with solid fraud convictions among them. http://www.contractormisconduct.org/

Our party compromised with the very unrealistic Greedy Obstructionist Plutocrats who wanted to preserve and strengthen the Winner Takes All status quo, extended and strengthened since the Reagan era. Even though we know that big business has been hoarding cash and not hiring, that they have taken their tax breaks and shipped the jobs overseas too, we are all supposed to keep saying "Cut taxes on the Top Ten Percent and they'll create jobs," so how can you expect us to be realistic about the longer term benefits of a space program?

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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
15. Oh, I know I've lost mine
That died about 1999 as I recall. I've been treading water ever since. It's a sad truth but thank you for telling us the truth. If only our politicians would do the same!

Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Bahrain...

When will the citizens of the USA demand Democracy and fairness?
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