Muslims Must Not Pay Price for Europe’s Identity Crisis (Ramzy Baroud)

[Tace]

Ramzy Baroud -- World News Trust

Dec. 24, 2009 -- It seems that the targeting of Muslims and Islam has become a kind of national theater in France. Unlike theater, however, the disturbing trend can, and will turn ugly -- in fact to a degree it already has -- if the French government doesn’t get a grip on reality. The world, including France, is a complex, multifaceted and fascinatingly diverse place; it cannot be co-opted to fit national specificities determined by a group of irritable far right racists with a distorted interpretation of themselves and others.

Unfortunately, France is not alone; it merely highlights the most obvious manifestation of growing anti-Muslim sentiments throughout Europe. Unearthing the reasons behind the disturbing phenomena is hardly an easy task, for it arguably requires a greater examination of the political, economic and social woes of European states than it does of the ‘shortcomings’ of Islam.

Islam is a great religion in many respects; it has endured for more than 1,400 years. Its membership is never confined by skin color, culture, political ideology or geographic boundaries. Its views of antiquity, on equality, women rights and peace are considered progressive even by today’s standards.

The detractors of Islam fail to see all this. If Islam is dissected politically or "academically," the investigation is done for the sake of destroying its repute, and discrediting or humiliating its followers.

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http://worldnewstrust.com/muslims-must-not-pay-price-for-europes-identity-crisis-ramzy-baroud/itemid-28

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. As long as in Islamic countries, I, as a woman am forced to dress with sheets....

and to be treated as a second-class citizen, as long as that exists, all European nations should be free to retain their European cultures as well.

When in Greece, do as the Greeks do. Or leave. Honest.

[mix]

3. Leave, how?

Most European Muslims are citizens of their respective countries. In the EU, the presence of these communities is mostly the result of Great Britain's and France's colonial empires...due to labor concerns, countries like France began to bring their colonial subjects to the metropole where they were promised rights and wages. Instead, they have faced segregation, poverty, and racism.

These communities are in no way responsible for what you wear in Muslim countries...nor is it clear what "European cultures" are when you consider how divisive the issue of European and national identity remains across Europe today.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. Oh the way anyone leaves when they're unhappy with a land not being an Islamic country I suppose

That's how.

[mix]

5. That is a false characterization.

Very few European Muslims want to turn their respective countries into "Islamic" countries...in fact the vast majority want to practice their faith in peace, no different than most Christians.

My point about them leaving is that those who are citizens have no where to go realistically.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. Oh really. nt

[mix]

7. Yeah, really...don't fall for the lies of the European far right. nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. I'm not. I've lived in Europe, here, Israel, you name it.

I've lived in too many places to fall for bullshit.

Until Islamic countries stop insisting that female visitors and non-Islamic females wear sheets all over their bodies and be treated like inferiors, they need to start dressing like westerners if they want to go elsewhere. Male Islamics already dress like westerners wherever they travel, while their women look like freaks, and it makes me want to kick male Islamics into outer space. Really.

[mix]

10. Holding European Muslims responsible

for the policies of certain governments in Muslim countries is wrong...and bizarre. Suggesting they should leave borders on intolerant and racist. You obviously see Islam as a single oppressive entity, in both Europe and elsewhere, much as Europe's far right does. Your travels have taught you little.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. Why must I be forced to repeat myself repeatedly?

I said it and will say it again. UNTIL ISLAMICS STOP FORCING FEMALE VISITORS LIKE ME TO THEIR LANDS, TO DRESS LIKE SHEET-COVERED FREAKS, AND BE TREATED LIKE INFERIORS, UNTIL THEN, THEY CAN ALL STAY IN THEIR OWN LANDS OR DRESS WESTERN.

Thank you for listening. Next time I'll just copy and paste that. It's faster.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. There are enough incidents of european muslims insisting that their

sharia driven rules be followed/accommodated in non islamic countries as to not make it just a right wing lie.

[mix]

14. That is different than insisting France become Islamic, for example.

Calling for accommodation and respect for sharia tenets usually concerns the state's legal obligation to honor religious liberties, a secular concept, not theocracy.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Not in parts of Paris

Its the sharia way or else.

[mix]

20. There are Islamists in the banlieues,

but the riots are not being driven by their religious calls...social, economic and historical factors underlie this problem, not religion...political opportunists like Sarkozy and neo-fascists like Le Pen play up the cultural and religious divisions of this issue, mostly to obscure the political and socio-economic injustices of Muslim life in France, not to mention the profound racism they experience. Most Muslims there have a respect for secular values and religious tolerance...Islamists (radical Muslims with a political agenda based on sharia) have very little sway over this community.

[paulsby]

23. so, it's ok to adopt the michael savage approach

as long as it's european countries doing it?

i take it you wouldn't go for this policy in the USA, right?

"When in America, do as the Americans do. Or Leave. Honest."

would you say that?

[treestar]

2. One nice thing about being American

Our culture is a melting pot, and we don't have that worry about preserving it - we let it change with the flow.

[burning rain]

12. Americans on the whole don't really have *a* cultural identity; we have identities...

relative to Europe. (There's probably not even one single book, other than the Bible, that you can count on most Americans having even a passing familiarity with.) The ties that bind have never really formed here, so we tend to be less leery of out-groups, while being relatively indifferent to in-groups. We tend to have less social solidarity, while being a bit more tolerant of other cultural identities, than Europeans. You do what you want, but hands off what's ours, and don't ask us to care. We even have a high tolerance for separatist communities such as "aryans" in Idaho and the Branch Davidians at the extreme, the still alarming Yearning for Zion Ranch in the middle, and the Old-Order Amish at the more benign--something that strikes many Europeans as bizarre.

[mix]

13. Europe is no different...

the continent, and many of its separate nation-states, are riven by regional cultural differences (see Spain) religious differences (see France) and a slew of ethnic and linguistic differences (see the Balkans)...Americans tend to romanticize the cultural integrity of "Europe" and the Old Country.

[treestar]

15. It still seems that Britain and France, and Switerzerland

Have more trouble with Muslim immigrants than the US does. They end up making weird laws trying to protect the culture. And the French have tried to protect their language. We have English-only people here, true. But then we have second and third languages - Spanish and French - without making laws about it. It is notable the English only types have gotten nowhere.

We don't make laws against burkas (we couldn't anyway, with our Constitution) but seem confident that something like that will die out on its own as the immigrant's descendants Americanize.

[burning rain]

17. Hmm, what's "Americanize" mean?

Other than, perhaps, accept an ethic of "You do your thing; I'll do mine."

[treestar]

18. Still, immigrants do Americanize to an extent

Their children usually learn English and their grandchildren definitely speak it.

In the US immigrants add to the culture too. You see Chinese and Italian restaurants, St. Patrick's day parades, the immigrant group culture affects the American culture. My city has Polish, Italian, Irish and Hispanic neighborhoods. Eventually descendants leave those and live in areas not identified with any particular immigrant group. U.S. cities have a "Chinatown." But the people there speak English and live the American lifestyle to a high degree.

It is a mix of assimilation but yet still affecting the overall culture. The overall culture is not defensive - it lets the others affect it.

[burning rain]

21. The English language, yeah.

People do learn it of their own accord, certainly from one generation to the next going through US schools, and those who want to make more laws about it seem either like nervous Nellies fretting over a non-problem, or nativists wanting to try and take an opportunistic crack at immigrants.

[Igel]

22. Like it or not,

most Americans do have a common culture. Not food, fashion, festivals and that kind of thing, necessarily. But standards of behavior, what kinds of goals are appropriate and what kind are inappropriate, how to order one's life. We have a wider range of variation on many things, but that doesn't mean the constraints are there and felt when violated--even when violated by people who think they shouldn't be there.

What we don't have is a dominant indigenous culture that's being asked to tolerate competition. Many understand why a place in the 3rd world might resist having outside cultural influences come in and demand a place on the table. Such influence is often called colonialism--sometimes economic, sometimes cultural, but colonialism nonetheless. And indigenous cultures are viewed as having some right to continue existing. Well, sometimes, at least. That the exceptions seem to form a fairly principled class is distressing.

[burning rain]

16. Well, I know that, that's why I keep saying "relatively" & "tend."

But we are still rather more about local option here in the US than in Western Europe.

[paulsby]

24. only americans who don't

understand europe, you mean. iow, i agree.

do you really think the basque in france feel "cultural integrity" with people in madrid?

of course not.

i just find it ironic that some posters here think it's perfectly fine for various european countries to retain their culture, whatever that may be, but would NEVER hold that view about americans.

heck, france even has a ministry of culture.