The War is Lost By William Rivers Pitt

[Rhiannon12866]

We have traveled a long, dark, strange road since the attacks of September 11. We have all suffered, we have all known fear and anger, and sometimes hatred. Many of us have felt - probably more than we are willing to admit it - at one time or another a desire for revenge, so deep was the wound inflicted upon us during that wretched, unforgettable Tuesday morning in September of 2001.

But we have come now to the end of a week so awful, so terrible, so wrenching that the most basic moral fabric of that which we believe is good and great - the basic moral fabric of the United States of America - has been torn bitterly asunder.

We are awash in photographs of Iraqi men - not terrorists, just people - lying in heaps on cold floors with leashes around their necks. We are awash in photographs of men chained so remorselessly that their backs are arched in agony, men forced to masturbate for cameras, men forced to pretend to have sex with one another for cameras, men forced to endure attacks from dogs, men with electrodes attached to them as they stand, hooded, in fear of their lives.

The worst, amazingly, is yet to come. A new battery of photographs and videotapes, as yet unreleased, awaits over the horizon of our abused understanding. These photos and videos, also from the Abu Ghraib prison, are reported to show U.S. soldiers gang raping an Iraqi woman, U.S. soldiers beating an Iraqi man nearly to death, U.S. troops posing, smirks affixed, with decomposing Iraqi bodies, and Iraqi troops under U.S. command raping young boys.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/051004A.shtml

[Larkspur]

1. But Kerry doesn't think so

He's for "staying the course".

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. From now to November

many things will change

And for Kerry staying the course means not leaving behind a failed state

It also means internatiinalizing the effort.

But NATO has just told chimpster not to call them until after the
elections.

Try the nuances for once... after all they have made quite a mess and you and I cannot escape the mess... the options are few and far between

[Rhiannon12866]

4. The messes get darker and deeper every day

And the options more restricted. I would like to see these guys finally cornered, faced with their own lies, but I'm not holding my breath. Kerry is definitely the better option. What are our other choices? He will have to clean up this horrific mess which will not be easy. I do not envy him, but he has better judgment than Bush* and Rumsfeld, obviously. And what choice do we all have? I just wish we could turn back the clock and start over. October 2000 sounds good to me.:shrug:

[Rhiannon12866]

5. Yes, it is really a mess. And there are fewer and fewer options

Check out this article Will Pitt posted which says that Bush*, himself, authorized the torture of Iraqi prisoners. This just gets worse. Kerry, and anyone else, just has to be better than this corrupt administration.:-(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1604919

[Rhiannon12866]

3. So what are the choices?

At least Kerry has military experience and anybody has to be better than what we currently have in the White House. Kerry is not my first choice, Kucinich is, but I am firmly ABB.

I posted this article because Will stated the truth, as usual, clearly and completely. But it is so discouraging that we have come to such a low point in our national history. Every time you think things can't possibly get worse, they inevitably do. I'm for regime change in our own country.;(

[PATRICK]

6. Bush has destroyed the "trap"

so that Kerry honestly can get us out intelligently with little controversy. Any intelligent candidate in fact would probably be left with pretty much the same options. Clark's ideas of mopping up the troublemakers first had been played out pretty miserably.

The hawkish thinkers would have to rationally get our troops back in order where they are truly needed as quickly as possible. In the past others were slowly or suddenly sucked into the quagmire. Bush has played all the cards in this strip poker game and oddly it is he and not the Iraqi prisoners who is shivering.

Everyone will breathe a sigh of relief that the real grownups will be in charge so that there may even be a unitive window to get Iraq together that Kerry would be wise to exploit. And that means peace and an end to the occupation.

What kind of order can we provide anyway when our troops are retreating into safe zones, getting sniped on patrol or rousting the armed factions with brutal counter-productivity? Shifting security to mercs and private forces has flubbed its test and finding pro-American collaborators to rule the country is pure blind arrogance and will not stand either.

Getting rid of Hussein was the only real American policy. The rest was Mr. Bush's War as all wars without defensive reasons have been named. After a few feeble gassing of the deflating PNAC imperial balloon, all that grandiose justification and planning will have less credibility than the domino theory.

In order to extricate our soldiers from that dismal failure will require concentration on the job not moral posturing, revenge against Bush or equally emotional simpleminded "solutions". That same cold responsibility then can be turned against those who abused our military for their unAmerican gain however the law sees fit. Above all else, the truth(already well leaked but unacknowledged and unacted upon) must come out or all those soldiers and innocent civilians will have died for nothing but the next Bush to dodge the bullet of justice.

I would give a great deal for the unrationalized, unvarnished, unspun truth published clearly everywhere to burn away the poisonous secrecy of right wing machinations that do not deserve power or place in America.

[Rhiannon12866]

11. I agree with what you say

It is just beyond me how Bush* keeps getting away with all this. Everytime you think it can't possibly get worse, it invariably and unbelievably does. As for his "speech" last night, how can he drone on and on, spouting the same rhetoric and saying absolutely nothing?:shrug::grr:

[Martin Eden]

19. "Getting us out intelligently"

Certainly, intelligence and wisdom is what's called for here.

Unfortunately, the options are not good. The "trap" which has been sprung in Iraq has basically left us with choices of "damned if you do" and "damned if you don't."

If we don't make a commitment to securing a stable peaceful Iraq, the result can be continuing tragedy for the Iraqi people and a terrorist state that threatens us much more than Saddam's regime.

But the very presence of our military on Arab soil is fueling the violence more than anything else. Of course we would like to "internationalize" the security force, but I sincerely doubt we'll get much in the way of troops from our erstwhile allies, even if Kerry wins the election.

Furthermore, what evidence is there that the insurgents will react to NATO or UN forces any differently? They bombed the UN headquarters and have shown no hesitation to kill anyone, including their fellow Iraqis, who are seen as collaborators.

Kerry's problem is that he will have no choice but to prop up the Iraqi government that has essentially been installed by Bush, which lacks enough legitimacy among the general population to overcome the extremists who are likely to assault any government not of their own making.

Perhaps if the Arab League was given a central role for establishing a legitimate government in the eyes of the Arab public, the insurgents could be reduced to a relative handful of hardcore terrorists who would end up as dead-enders.

But this simply is not going to happen. The Arab League is ill-equipped to play that role, and Kerry couldn't do it politically even if he wanted to.

I'm not dissing Kerry. I don't think he's the greatest possible leader, but he's miles above Bush. Our traditional allies want him to succeed, and his foreign policy will go a long way toward repairing the diplomatic damage of Bush.

However, even with a Kerry victory in November, I can't even bring myself to the level of cautious optimism. Above all else, we need to be realists. Salvaging a long term solution from the mess created by Bush is probably the most difficult and delicate foreign policy crisis facing an incoming president since Truman inherited the conclusion and aftermath of WWII.

I'm hoping the entire world -- including the Islamic portion of it -- will breathe a sigh of relief when Bush is ousted, and the application of an intelligent foreign policy can engineer a satisfactory result from this illegitimate war.

Perhaps the despondency of these last three and a half years has colored my expectations, but I don't anticipate good tidings from Iraq.

[left is right]

8. ! appreciate the article but

the headline is poor. Some freeper will think that W R Pitt is responsible for losing the war all by himself.

[Rhiannon12866]

12. Sorry

I certainly didn't mean to insult Will. His words are always so clear and well thought out and he certainly doesn't back off from the truth. The reason I included his name in the title line was because I thought it would catch people's attention and more would be drawn to Will's article. He's an active member of this board, in case you didn't know.

Welcome to DU, left is right! Glad to have you among us!:hi:

[WilliamPitt]

14. *snarf*

But I did. I lost it all by myself?

Have you seen my war? I seem to have lost it.

:)

[Rhiannon12866]

15. I did apologize for the subject line

I thought more people would read the article if they knew that you wrote it, since I thought it was one of your best, but, as a writer, myself, I realize now that I made a mistake. No you did not lose this war. If you were in charge, this bloody mess would never have happened, more's the pity. Sorry, again.

:dunce:

[Cocoa]

7. Kerry is not saying "stay the course"

but he won't say that the war is lost.

And Murtha did not say it either. This article misrepresents what Murtha said, which was instead highly qualified.

[LeahMira]

9. I don't think so...

Kerry would like NATO nations to be involved in Iraq.

Maybe that's a good idea. The United Nations has not taken any action against the U.S., and NATO did become involved in order to stop the genocide of Islamic people in the Balkans. Certainly the U.S. forces are in no position to do anything helpful at this point.

I do think it would be the height of irresponsibility for the U.S. to have come in to sow havoc throughout Iraq and then simply to leave the country destroyed and without any thought of a way to recover.

I think Kerry is more than aware of what happens when the military has the ear of a president and the diplomats are ignored.

I join in your concern that members of both parties seem to see no other way of ending this mess but to keep on with what is obviously disastrous. I'm also frustrated with the forced choice we all have to deal with in November, between evil and a little shady. I'd like to vote for someone like Dennis Kucinich, or someone with the same qualities of character as Paul Wellstone demonstrated. But, unfortunately, the powers that be aren't giving us that choice. What other options do we have?

[Rhiannon12866]

16. Dennis Kucinich is my candidate, as well

I am also frustrated that he has gotten so little attention. Nobody seems to even know who he is. He still has a viable campaign going. My friend got a call from the Kucinich campaign asking for an additional donation just last week. I know that this is a lost cause, but we need to continue to support him so he will have as much influence on the platform as possible.

[Fovea]

17. I think that July will teach the American people many things

Kucinich will have a voice, official or no, at the convention.
Kerry must start really energizing the base, and the base wants us to rejoin the civilized world.

We cannot stay the course-- the course is blowing up underneath us.
I give the US sponsored government Till Sept or Oct at the latest.

Do you think that the transfer of soverignity will go off as scheduled?
Do you think there will be a visible difference between it and frank occupation?

This war, and the expansion of it, will stay a front burner issue.
Bush is going down in flames over it. Kerry should not volunteer to change his name to Lyndon over Iraqi oil, because not even the great society can save you when you are the conductor of the Armageddon Symphony Orchestra.

It will take a massive peristroika to save America from economic collapse over oil prices in the next two years. Conservation and conversion to renewable for 25% of energy needs should be our first goal. Official support for Collective Bargaining, free University for those holding a 3.2 gpa or higher, national health for all.

That is what America would look like if it were a leader of the free world.

[Rhiannon12866]

20. I agree with you about Kucinich, but it is still frustrating

that he gets so little press. Actually, I thought Will signed on with him to remedy the situation, but it appears that he is now back at TruthOut, which certainly isn't a bad thing. We need Will's clear and honest voice to keep announcing the truth since it's in such short supply these days.

The issues you mention are mostly Kucinich issues. He is still speaking out loud and clear, but it seems like nobody's listening. America needs to rejoin the free world, but it's going to take regime change at home and a hell of a lot of fence-mending to accomplish this. As Will said in "The Greatest Sedition Is Silence," it may well be almost too late.
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[Th1onein]

10. Why can't the Dems kick Liebermann and Zell Miller out?

These guys are obviously NOT Democrats. Why do we allow them to represent us?

[Rhiannon12866]

24. Zell Miller is speaking at the Republican Convention

I think that qualifies him as a Republican, or am I insane?:crazy:

[donhakman]

13. moral fabric

[bpilgrim]

18. deleted

ah, old article

peace

[Rhiannon12866]

23. Not deleted, nor so old as to be irrelevant

Peace to you, bpilgrim. I am confused by your post.:shrug:

[enki23]

21. how did he lose it?

.

[Rhiannon12866]

22. All by himself, apparently,

if you believe reply #14.
:spank:

[Rhiannon12866]

25. Will Pitt is cool with this post. I just posted his brilliant article,

hoping that more people would see it than read Truthout. I have sent it on to others and hoped others on DU would. Will has written many important and insightful articles. I consider this to be one of his best.

[indepat]

26. Don't most in the military either do what they are told or what they

perceive is expected of them? The basic moral fabric of our nation has been so torn asunder, it will likely take decades to overcome the unimaginable damage inflicted by the policies and actions of this Administration. Yet, sadly polls suggest almost 50% of the American people support the man, his ideology, and his dream.

[Rhiannon12866]

27. Of course they do. That's the nature of the military

and it couldn't function without obedience to authority or blind trust. It has to be this way for the military to exist. The terrible thing is that, in this case, their trust has been abused and they have been placed in harm's way, expected to put their lives on the line, for no good reason. It's unconscionable.:grr:

I agree with you about what the polls say, but just cannot understand it. This man dodged the draft, yet he expects young men and women to go to war based on a lie. The fact that this administration lied to the American people is right out there, now, so why is it that so many people aren't getting it?:shrug: