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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:00 PM
Original message
Get gay marriage off the ballot.
Putting it on the ballot is an end-around the courts and Congress. This is not what the Framers intended. I oppose most kinds of government-by-referendum, especially when it is used for important civil rights issues. And gay marriage is absolutely a civil rights issues. Imagine if we had put women's suffrage on the ballot? It would never have passed. With voter turnout in off-year elections being so low, ballot initiatives are won by a majority of people who bothered to vote that day, which in no way represents the majority of the people.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-04/get-gay-marriage-off-the-ballot-1/

What these academic treatises ignore is the concern that Madison and others had that what they called the tyranny of the majority was legitimate. A majority, Madison predicted, often whipped up by demagogues, would oppress a helpless minority, a group so naturally small it could never hope to protect itself at the polls alone—using the government to deprive them of those aspects of life fundamental to a free society. No kidding.

The Framers set up systems to protect the minority–legislators would come from different constituencies, voters selecting representatives would have different issues before them when they voted, laws would require the executive to sign off, too. The Framers wrote down a list of rights, like freedom of assembly and religion, which could not be bargained away by any legislature. Soon after the founding, the federal courts took on the constitutional role of saying what that document required. After the Civil War, the Constitutional scheme was expanded to require equality before the law and to apply to the states specifically. The constitutions of the states modeled the state governments roughly along the lines of the federal example, including an independent judiciary to enforce the state constitution.

(snip)

That gay marriage has to run this gauntlet is not an accident. Before the Bow Out movement, most big social change claims made their way to the federal courts without this huge windup of state-by-state legislative efforts, which then alerted the opposition to the social change that was coming. More importantly, a thoroughly organized, heavily funded conservative movement is now securely ensconced on the political stage and has seen its tyrannical opportunity in the majoritarian vehicle of the referendum. The combination has pulled the American political system in a radical new direction the Founders actively opposed.

The Supreme Court has yet to rule that gay marriage is either a matter of fundamental right or simple equality. They will have a chance to do that, as the various lawsuits generated by this constitutionally repulsive procedure make their way up in the next few years. But one thing the experience with same sex marriage should make clear. Whether we like the outcome or not, the last thing the court should do, in deciding that question, is follow the election returns.
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Let's hope that the current court...
Will be able to see past their ideological bent.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. The makeup of the courts is indeed a problem
Something I (and the author as well) failed to address. Except court appointees SOMETIMES surprise the people who appoint them by voting in unexpected ways. I have no hope that Thomas, Scalia or Roberts ever will but the others might. And future appointees might as well.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. the intentions of the framers are irrelevant today
and I don't believe they would have agreed with us anyway.

I am of the Gattaca mentality: marriage should not be a state's right. If you want to beat them you have to swim like you're not coming back - and at this point we've demonstrated that we have nothing to lose anyway.

All of our effort in all 50 states should be going towards federal recognition, period, based on arguments of defining the legal family unit for the purpose of exercising mutual fiscal responsibility, declaring next of kin, exercising retirement claims, custody, and medical decisions, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER AMERICAN.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I agree that it should be a federal law.
Like other civil rights issues, it is probably necessary to shove it down the throats of people. If we wait for them to come around, they never will.

Obviously the makeup of the courts is also a problem, especially with the conservatives (regressives) on the Supreme Court.
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TBSlayer Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Just a small point of historical correction
to an otherwise excellent post. Ballot initiatives did play a significant role in the women's suffrage movement, particularly in western states. In fact, it was these ballot victories which likely provided the momentum for federalizing the suffrage movement. Perhaps, despite this recent setback, future state ballot victories may do the same for same-sex marriage. There is some hope.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Okay, I can see where it can be a help.
I also don't like the piecemeal approach, with different laws (and rights as far as marriage goes) in different places.

My point really is that the low turnout guarantees a skewed result, whether the results are in our favor or not.
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yep. People shouldn't vote on limiting rights.
That is a court decision. The median IQ is 100, you know - and we certainly do know how the half below that number vote.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Four of the five partisan ideologues who gave us Bush in 2000 still have SCOTUS seats; their record
on other issues is not progressive. It seems to me naive to hope for a satisfactory result from that quarter: before making such a change in law, this Court would probably look at the States' practice for guidance; the message they would glean from the various State laws would be decidedly mixed; and so they would touch nothing
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