Gore Vidal: 'We’ll have a dictatorship soon in the US'

[bananas]

Source: Times Online (UK)

A conversation with Gore Vidal unfolds at his pace. He answers questions imperiously, occasionally playfully, with a piercing, lethal dryness. He is 83 and in a wheelchair (a result of hypothermia suffered in the war, his left knee is made of titanium). But he can walk (“Of course I can”) and after a recent performance of Mother Courage at London’s National Theatre he stood to deliver an anti-war speech to the audience.

<snip>

He points to an apartment opposite the hotel where Churchill stayed during the Second World War, as Downing Street was “getting hammered by the Nazis. The crowds would cheer him from the street, he knew great PR.” In a flash, this memory reminds you of the swathe of history Vidal has experienced with great intimacy: he was friends with JFK, fought in the war, his father Gene, an Olympic decathlete and aeronautics teacher, founded TWA among other airlines and had a relationship with Amelia Earhart. (Vidal first flew and landed a plane when he was 10.) He was a screenwriter for MGM in the dying days of the studio system, toyed with being a politician, he has written 24 novels and is hailed as one of the world’s greatest essayists.

<snip>

Last year he famously switched allegiance from Hillary Clinton to Barack Obama during the Democratic nomination process for president. Now, he reveals, he regrets his change of heart. How’s Obama doing? “Dreadfully. I was hopeful. He was the most intelligent person we’ve had in that position for a long time. But he’s inexperienced. He has a total inability to understand military matters. He’s acting as if Afghanistan is the magic talisman: solve that and you solve terrorism.” America should leave Afghanistan, he says. “We’ve failed in every other aspect of our effort of conquering the Middle East or whatever you want to call it.” The “War on Terror” was “made up”, Vidal says. “The whole thing was PR, just like ‘weapons of mass destruction’. It has wrecked the airline business, which my father founded in the 1930s. He’d be cutting his wrists. Now when you fly you’re both scared to death and bored to death, a most disagreeable combination.”

<snip>

Today religious mania has infected the political bloodstream and America has become corrosively isolationist, he says. “Ask an American what they know about Sweden and they’d say ‘They live well but they’re all alcoholics’. In fact a Scandinavian system could have benefited us many times over.” Instead, America has “no intellectual class” and is “rotting away at a funereal pace. We’ll have a military dictatorship fairly soon, on the basis that nobody else can hold everything together. Obama would have been better off focusing on educating the American people. His problem is being over-educated. He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is. Benjamin Franklin said that the system would fail because of the corruption of the people and that happened under Bush.”

<snip>

Read more: http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6854221.ece

[SergeStorms]

1. I must agree with this part..........

"His (Obama) problem is being over-educated. He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is".

Truer words were never spoken. A great many Americans seem to pride themselves on their ignorance, as if it's a positive trait that only they can wield correctly. :banghead: We are a stupid, stupid nation, and as such are subject to being controlled by those who strive to keep us that way. It's to their monetary and political advantage to make sure we stay ignorant and easily lead.

[Chulanowa]

3. Most Americans are case studies in why we need large predators

I think a few hundred tigers would do the trick.

[whathehell]

16. "most Americans" bullshit.....Speak for yourself.

As for the tigers, would you like to be their first victim?

Just sayin..

[noiretextatique]

35. 75% of oklahoma high school students don't know who the 1st president was

saw that headline on DU today. i'm opposed to siccing tigers on them, but MANY americans are dumb as dirt.

[Javaman]

22. I had a buddy of mine, years ago, that had a t-shirt that read...

"rome didn't have enough lions" LOL

[Chulanowa]

23. I love that, every time I hear about Christians being oppressed

I always wonder, if Christians are so oppressed, why are there so many lions going hungry?

Still no answer :)

[Dr.Phool]

27. So many christians, so few lions.

[acsmith]

4. but he means you too

unless you have a law degree.

[whathehell]

6. Yes....Shortly after Bill Clinton was elected, he pronounced him "White Trash"...

I pretty much stopped listening to him after that.

[snagglepuss]

13. You're making an absurd statement. You've concocted this out of thin air.

[whathehell]

17. Nonsense...He said "Americans"...He didn't say "some"

or state the obvious -- that it's difficult to "broadbrush" three hundred million people. And if you think he just means the Teabaggers, I suggest you read posts 6 and 7.

[Bgno64]

9. Sarah Palin would be example #1

And really, who would make a better "dictator" for these folks than her?

[Selatius]

2. I don't know of any democracy or republic that has endured without an informed citizenry.

If the problem isn't resolved, the US will come to an end either by dictatorship or disintegration.

[Davis_X_Machina]

5. I love Vidal...

...but he was on Cavett monthly saying the same things 35 years ago.

[whathehell]

7. He's also a hideous snob who, in 1980, dismissed Ted Kennedy's

presidential ambition by saying that "He's probably make a good bartender".

[snagglepuss]

14. He isn't a snob. He is simply unwillingly to engage in hero worship. Too smart

to view any one person or issue as a "magic talisman".

[whathehell]

15. I disagree...

One can certainly avoid "hero worship" without calling someone like Bill Clinton "white trash" or sneering at the abilities of a Ted Kennedy.

Sorry, I think he's a nasty, elitist old prick who thinks he was born to a better pot to piss in.

[DerBeppo]

25. unless said person is Tim McVeigh -nt-

[marshall]

8. I think we'll see this sort of argument gaining ground over the coming months

The philosophy that Obama is taking has been bubbling up in academia for years. Finally we have somebody in power who can enact it. Of course the public is going to resist because people don't like change. And it's logical that the resistance would be stronger than the intelligentsia imagined in their mock ups.

The path will be the middle one--one that is progressive but doesn't fast track things so much that it is overly alarming to the general public.

[evenso]

10. Americans are frightfully uneducated and unworldly.

And with so much power. They don't deserve to have all these nuclear weapons and military bases around the world. Superpower status should go to a more educated populace.

[whathehell]

12. You are speaking in gross generalities...The Euros, for one, often forget how VERY

large our country is. There are now about Three Hundred Million Americans..The entire European Union, with its Twenty Seven countries and 420 million people, is only somewhat larger than our ONE country.

Do we have lots of dummies?..Yes..Do we have lots of bright, "worldly" people..Yes..(During the Nineteen Sixties America had the highest number of college graduates in the world).

We simply have a LOT OF People!..My point is, it's hard to "broad brush" a population of 300 million!

As to what we "deserve"...I guess I don't need to remind you that we gained our Super Power status after bailing out Western Europe during WWII.

I'm not, by any means, saying that the US hasn't made serious mistakes -- or that I want it to remain a SuperPower -- I'd prefer to see power (and responsibility) shared with the rest of the world's nations.

That being said, I have to quote one DUer responding to a thread here which claimed that we should "Face it..This country sucks"...People weighed in with varying degrees of agreement and disagreement and then one person pretty much summed it up, in my opinion.

He said: "All empires suck...But the Euros are no saints. They just didn't get the opportunity to screw up the second half of the Twentieth Century".

[StarfarerBill]

18. The US's post-World War II superpower status...

...came about because ours was the only national industrial capacity of the major combatants to emerge from the war unscathed. That, along with our possessing and willingness to use atomic weapons, cemented our role as Western-capitalist leader in the developing Cold War.

The Marshall Plan, while having noble intent in and of itself, was primarily a propaganda ploy to sway Western Europe away from Soviet influence. Had the Soviet Union not consolidated its gains in Eastern Europe and bolstered its western flank to prevent what it perceived as another potential catastrophic attack, General Marshall's initiative would have had far less traction here.

[whathehell]

20. My reply

"...came about because ours was the only national industrial capacity of the major combatants to emerge from the war unscathed".

Unscathed?...How about the DEAD?....Even now, there are French who tend daily to that vast field of white gravestones lying in Normandy...When the news of 9/11 reached Paris, Parisians began laying hundreds of notes and flowers on the steps of the US embassy, many of them thanking America for our part in saving their country.

"..That, along with our possessing and willingness to use atomic weapons, cemented our role as Western-capitalist leader in the developing Cold War".

Again, You forget the human part...We also possessed a willingness to risk -- and lose --tens of thousands of American LIVES in another European war. It was the SECOND time in a twenty five year time span.

The Marshall Plan, while having noble intent in and of itself, was primarily a propaganda ploy to sway Western Europe away from Soviet influence".

It had "noble intent in and of itself"...but was "primarily" a propaganda ploy?.

To the extent that that is true (and I don't know that it is) I don't think it's "propaganda" benefit detracted from it's value to them or our generosity in giving it..After the money and lives we spent on the war, You could hardly criticize our country had they been hesitant to offer more resources of no benefit to us.

Whatever the story, I can assure you that Western Europeans are now quite happy to have not been "swayed" by that Soviet Influence.....To this day, Eastern Europeans are looked down upon and viewed suspiciously by Western Euros for their "Communist past".

[StarfarerBill]

32. By this logic...

...the Soviet Union should have won the Cold War, since it lost tens of millions of civilians and soldiers as well as shouldering the burden of an entire front of World War II almost entirely alone. (As an aside, please note that I said our "national industrial capacity" was unscathed; of course we suffered terrible losses of life, but no attacks on our military-industrial complex...including the atomic weapon-production facilities, which came in very handy for strongarm diplomacy later.)

Quite simply, there would have been little or no aid to post-war Europe or anywhere else in the world during the Cold War years, had it not been for Soviet influence in those regions...just as the USSR would have been quite happy to sit back and do nothing had we not attempted to sell the American Way to others. The Cold War was, for the superpowers, primarily an ideological one.

[whathehell]

34. I'm not talking about "shoulds"...I'm talking about reality.

"Quite simply, there would have been little or no aid to post-war Europe or anywhere else in the world during the Cold War years, had it not been for Soviet influence in those regions"

I believe I've addressed this -- Is there some further point?

"just as the USSR would have been quite happy to sit back and do nothing had we not attempted to sell the American Way to others".

Well, this is a "chicken and egg" question isn't it?...There are many who would say that the soviets, were equally, if not more aggressive in trying to sell the "Soviet Way"...

One thing that is indisputable is the difference in which the two nations handled the countries they "liberated" from Hitler...We allowed the territory we liberated, Western Europe, it's freedom..The Soviet Union did NOT do so with those they "liberated".

[evenso]

19. Yes, I'm speaking in generalities....

but most Americans lack the historical, geographical and cultural knowledge for a country that has so much influence in the world. I talk to Latin Americans, Africans, Europeans and Asians and they know more about what is going on in the world than the average American I've run accross over the years. That was my point. If you want to be up on what's going on in the world, get your information from foreign media sources, you cannot rely on American media for comprehensive news. We are generally frightfully superstitious, uneducated, uninformed and ambivalent toward the world at large.

[whathehell]

21. Since you ARE speaking in "generalities" I'm afraid you've forfeited

your right to speak in ABSOLUTES about the larger part ("most") of three hundred MILLION...

As to the "Americans you've run across over the years"...Well, we don't really know Who, Where(region?) or how MANY that is, do we?...I think we can imagine it to be far less than the population..or even a FRACTION of that population...How do we know that you don't live and/or interact mainly with Americans who reflect all the undesirable traits you describe?...You might take that as "typical" where people living around and experiencing different sorts of Americans would disagree.

It's amazing how we leap to scold each other for "stereotyping" everyone else except ourselves.

As to your "point" please save it for a tenth grader...I've traveled (and lived) in many countries around the world and resent your silly arrogance in seeking to "lecture" me about the American Media.

"We are generally frightfully superstitious, uneducated, uninformed and ambivalent toward the world at large"....

Who is this WE?..You're certainly not speaking for me, my family, friends or neighbors...It's a BIG ASS Country!!

If you want to characterize YOURSELF as "uneducated, uninformed"..blah.blah", You go right ahead...But speak for yourself.

[evenso]

24. I'm well traveled and fairly well informed myself

I'm speaking from anecdotes of Americans I've met from around the country and living abroad. Yes, I've studied and worked abroad too and have learned that the foreign press is often a better source for what's happening in America than our domestic media. I've had many years of political experience and contacting voters and am confident in saying that Americans are generally not as informed about the world as foreigners, or even on their domestic politics. And for a country that has so much influence in every corner of the globe, its electorate is greatly lacking in historical, geographical and cultural knowledge of it. I guess I'm fairly opinionated, but have a right to be. You've obviously had different experiences, and I appreciate hearing your views.

[whathehell]

30. I wouldn't argue that our corporate media is both biased and deficient

in its reporting. In fact, I think that media reform, along with Health Care Reform and public financing of elections, ranks at the top in terms of this country's rightful priorities.

I don't know if you are of an age to remember, but we used to have something called "The Fairness Doctrine". It stated that those using the public airwaves had to be "fair" in representing the views of both parties on any given issue. It worked quite well, especially in keeping a "balance" and a civility to our public discussions. It was only AFTER its demise that regular Right Wing programming came into existence, cynically playing the "resentment card" for all it was worth.

Since it was invalidated during the Regan Administration (along with civics classes in schools), the Corporate Right Wing has taken full advantage and the idea of a "free press" is now a big joke, IMO.

I think we do agree on some major issues, but I would have to tell you that the "dumbing down" of America is relatively recent (last 25 to 30 years)..

As I mentioned earlier, during the fifties, sixties and even early seventies, America was in possession of the largest middle class in the world -- During the sixties, at least, we had the highest number, per capita, of college graduates.

That's the generation in which I grew up and since there are still many of us around, I'm not ready to invalidate "all" Americans based on what I believe to be a minority -- a large one, I'll grant you -- but a minority, nonetheless.

[evenso]

38. A return to the fairness doctrine would be a good move....

I am too young to remember the fairness doctrine, but I think such a policy would remedy the "dumbing down" exhibited by our media.

[chatnoir]

11. "Friends w/JFK"?

I've only heard him be weirdly bitchy about JFK.

[EFerrari]

37. He and Jackie had the same step father.

He is bitchy about JFK but bitchy as you are with friends, not the way people are with strangers. I don't know if that makes any sense.

They also had some kind of falling out for a while but I can't remember what that was about.

[tomm2thumbs]

26. not his fault, he's just past his prime

bitterness sets in soon thereafter *


* proven 100% to be true
** your mileage may vary
***heheheh

[nealmhughes]

28. Gore Vidal is not a "snob" in that a snob seeks out the company of the titled and wealthy.

He laughs at them, he toys with them. He has no interest in anyone for anything other than for who they are inside and what they accomplish. His father had no money when he started out, his grandparents had no great money, they were, however, connected and bigwigs in the Democratic Party. His mother after divorcing his father, gave Janet Lee Bouvier (Lee and Jackie's mother) to her second husband, the very wealthy Louis Auchincloss after having a daughter with him. Janet had two more kids with Hugh. So Jackie and Lee's half-brother and half-sister were also half-siblings of Vidal's half sister. He hated his mother and his father was off doing aircraft things in the wild blue yonder, Hugh was a short form of stability for him. He idolized his grandfather Gore, the first senator from Oklahoma, and you can read all about him and his childhood and youth in his memoirs.

Vidal never went to college, he went from St. Paul's School in DC straight to the Army in the Second World War. Then he wrote his first novel before 21, made a success, then he wrote his second, (then notorious) City and the Pillar where he openly wrote of in a nonchalant manner about homosensualism, as Vidal would call it. The rest is history.

He comes from a very old Southern family and feels that he is somehow holding up the aegis of Washington, Jefferson and Madison. He is no snob. His lover of fifty years, with whom he had no sex, was a Jew, the Gores were officially Episcopalian, whose family was fresh from Ellis Island and worked in advertising. He considered Christopher Hitchens his intellectual heir at one time, but after Hitch's misfortune in neoconism, I doubt that he still does, but do not know for certain.

He is no snob, he is an equal opportunity hater.

[JohnWxy]

29. I'm surprised at Vidal. We had one from 2000-2008. Aborted election. Appointment of dictator by

Antonin "the Reign Maker" Scalia, acquiescent Congress and public. I guess he means a formally recognized dictator. Ignorance Rex.

[troubledamerican]

31. Quote: "(Vidal) retains some optimism about Obama 'because he doesn’t lie.'"

Yet he says he now would prefer the woman who clumsily lied about Bosnian sniper fire with zero political shrewdness.

I'll take Obama any day.

[CJCRANE]

33. So Murdoch's rag suddenly finds Vidal relevant...?

:shrug:

[katty]

36. soon? i'd say we are pretty much there already, especially

the most vulnerable of our citizens. wall st and the banks dictate to congress and the president, the lobbyists dictate to the politians in their pocket(like, most of them), if you exercise your 'free speech' in the public domain - you need a permit for that in the PD, WHY? and then you're blasted with tasers or your eardrums are blasted with hi-tech equipment....or you're locked up in a "protest area" you cannot leave, or you'll be arrested-WTF?!

Call that Democracy? Nope-not even close.