Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Chris Hedges: This Isn’t Reform, It’s Robbery

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:21 AM
Original message
Chris Hedges: This Isn’t Reform, It’s Robbery
from Truthdig:



This Isn’t Reform, It’s Robbery

Posted on Aug 23, 2009
By Chris Hedges


Percentage change since 2002 in average premiums paid to large US health-insurance companies: +87%

Percentage change in the profits of the top ten insurance companies: +428%

Chances that an American bankrupted by medical bills has health insurance: 7 in 10


—Harper’s Index, September 2009


Capitalists, as my friend Father Michael Doyle says, should never be allowed near a health care system. They hold sick children hostage as they force parents to bankrupt themselves in the desperate scramble to pay for medical care. The sick do not have a choice. Medical care is not a consumable good. We can choose to buy a used car or a new car, shop at a boutique or a thrift store, but there is no choice between illness and health. And any debate about health care must acknowledge that the for-profit health care industry is the problem and must be destroyed. This is an industry that hires doctors and analysts to deny care to patients in order to increase profits. It is an industry that causes half of all bankruptcies. And the 20,000 Americans who died last year because they did not receive adequate care condemn these corporations as complicit in murder.

The current health care debate in Congress has nothing to do with death panels or public options or socialized medicine. The real debate, the only one that counts, is how much money our blood-sucking insurance, pharmaceutical and for-profit health services are going to be able to siphon off from new health care legislation. The proposed plans rattling around Congress all ensure that the profits for these corporations will increase and the misery for ordinary Americans will be compounded. The corporate state, enabled by both Democrats and Republicans, is yet again cannibalizing the Treasury. It is yet again pushing Americans, especially the poor and the working class, into levels of despair and rage that will continue to fuel the violent, proto-fascist movements leaping up around the edges of American society. And the traditional watchdogs—those in public office, the press and citizens groups—are as useless as the perfumed fops of another era who busied their days with court intrigue at Versailles. Canada never looked so good.

The Democrats are collaborating with lobbyists for the insurance industry, the pharmaceutical industry and for-profit health care providers to craft the current health care reform legislation. “Corporate and industry players are inside the tent this time,” says David Merritt, project director at Newt Gingrich’s Center for Health Transformation, “so there is a vacuum on the outside.” And these lobbyists have already killed a viable public option and made sure nothing in the bills will impede their growing profits and capacity for abuse.

“It will basically be a government law that says you have to buy their defective product,” says Dr. David Himmelstein, a professor at Harvard Medical School and a founder of Physicians for a National Health Plan. “Next the government will tell us a Pinto in every garage, a lead-coated toy to every child and melamine-laced puppy chow for every dog.” .........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090823_this_isnt_reform_its_robbery/





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Can't recommend this
enough.:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yeah, our congresscritters depend on the Insurance industry to re-elect them
-financially speaking.


REC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
INdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
59. It seems as if the healthcare insurance could be
and I say could be behind this H1N1 outbreak scare..I know our local school corporation is in a near panic stage..With this prediction that nearly one half the population will be affected by this flu outbreak and 90,000 deaths..With no vaccination available before mid November...
OK so why would this serve as an advantage ..simple..during a crisis the majority of Americans will not want a change in our healthcare system.The corporate media is not wasting any time reporting this swine flu scare and keeping it in the spotlight....It is serious..but is it a scare tactic????
The healthcare industry has spent millions to gain the public's support for no change...And they are spending millions buying politicians to guarantee they dont have to fight this battle in 2010.Back in 60's and 70's they called it bribery when corporations bought these politicians and today its simply campaign contributions...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MISSDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. It's interesting that you should say this because I was at a
web site today reading about the latest vet stuff for animals and there was a mention that the H1N1 virus may have been either intentionally or accidentally put out in the population. They went on to say that they were not usually conspiracy types but we might want to research it. Heard this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. The figures at the top say it all, don't they?
These figures need to be thrown in the face of EVERY PERSON against health care reform. Let them explain why, given these facts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. Let me add this:
The Democrats are collaborating with lobbyists for the insurance industry, the pharmaceutical industry and for-profit health care providers to craft the current health care reform legislation. “Corporate and industry players are inside the tent this time,” says David Merritt, project director at Newt Gingrich’s Center for Health Transformation, “so there is a vacuum on the outside.” And these lobbyists have already killed a viable public option and made sure nothing in the bills will impede their growing profits and capacity for abuse.


I'm not thrilled with what John Edwards did, not at all. But I still believe he was DEAD RIGHT when he said these people should not have a seat at the table. And this is exactly why. They are making the deal.

I know an attorney who has been involved in litigation with Indian Tribes. These groups have boards or panels that decide whether or not they can be sued. Can you imagine? Now we have the health care industry, sitting down with Congress, making sure the deal being made isn't going to hurt their profits...too much.

What needs to happen is these assholes need to be booted out on their butts, and the best interests of the American people need to be considered. The health care industry has had it their way for decades, and many Americans have lost loved ones, and everything they own because of them.

It's time for the American people to have representation at the table, and not the health care industry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tj2001 Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. Excellent Must-Read
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. Interesting comments about the Massachusetts System and some
good facts and figures. Good Read!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. One robbery in a series
of robberies. That seems to be what passes for capitalism these days. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
heliarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
53. M-C-M'
The General Formula for Capital is robbery defined. Capitalism is a tautology for robbery and can/should be used interchangeably.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. Use this to reply to rightwing emails
K&R

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. Tell me someone ..why should we be supporting anyone on any side of the Isle for what is being
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 08:12 AM by flyarm
proposed???????

Because unless we get a SINGLE PAYER bill..we have gotten nothing at all..except a damn good screwing!

from this article:

“Health insurance is not a race to the top; it is a race to the bottom,” he told me from Cambridge, Mass. “The way you make money is by abusing people. And if a public-option plan is not ready and willing to abuse patients it is stuck with the expensive patients. The premiums will go up until it is noncompetitive. The conditions that have now been set for the plans include a hobbled public option. Under the best-case scenario there will be tens of millions will remain uninsured at the outset, and the number will climb as more and more people are priced out of the insurance market.”

The inclusion of these corporations in the crafting of health care legislation has not stopped figures like Rick Scott, the former head of the Columbia/HCA health care company, from attempting to sabotage any plan. Scott’s company was forced to pay a $1.7 billion fraud settlement—the largest health care fraud settlement in U.S. history—for stealing hundreds of millions from taxpayers by overbilling for medical care. Scott, who made his money primarily from Medicare, is now saturating the airwaves in a reputed $20 million ad campaign that is stoking the anger and fear of many Americans. His ads are coordinated by CRC Public Relations, the group that masterminded the “Swift boat” attacks against 2004 Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.

“They are using our money to campaign against us,” Dr. Himmelstein told me. “The money for these commercials came from health care interests that collect fees from American patients. We experienced this before in Massachusetts. We ran a ballot initiative for universal health care in 2000 and the insurance industry spent $5 million on it, including the insurance company I am insured by. They used my premiums to smear an idea that 70 percent in Massachusetts, according to polls, favored before this smear campaign. Universal health care was narrowly defeated.”

The bills now in Congress will, at best, impose on the country the failed model in Massachusetts. That model will demand that Americans buy health insurance from private insurers. There will be some subsidies for the very poor but not for anyone above a modest income. Insurers will be allowed to continue to jack up premiums, including for the elderly. The bankruptcies due to medical bills and swelling premiums will mount along with rising deductibles and co-payments. Health care will be beyond the reach of many families. In Massachusetts one in six people who have mandated insurance still say they cannot afford care, and 30,000 people were evicted from the state program this month because of budget cuts. Expect the same debacle nationwide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. It's disgusting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. K and r.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jotsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
13. Progressives must push single payer back on the table before decisions are made.
Mad as Hell Doctors, members of Physicians for a National Health Plan from Oregon will be traveling cross country in a Care A Van all the way to DC in support of HR676. The trip starts on September 8, and is expected to conclude at the end of the month after stops in more than 20 cities. Check it out and talk them up, maybe universal health care isn't as out of reach is some would have us believe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. The revolution was diffused with the election of Obama

People thought he WAS the change.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jotsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
63. We put him behind the wheel, yes.
Now, we just have to push start the car. I don't think anyone, single handedly, can chop back that many tentacles of greed.
I once read a post here that has stuck with me, "We, not he, is what we've been waiting for."

I tell my kids nothing worthwhile is free or easy. I know I have to do more than cast votes every couple of years to facilitate change that benefits the commons when all anybody is about seem to be profit and status. First, last and only consideration, the masses be damned. A citizenry exists in the minds of corporate rulers for two reasons, to be bled dry and to serve the machine. I do what I can to stop that from being the only road we're allowed to travel.

As 21st century progressives, our job is to bring forward to now, and now to forward. The free market theories that have ravaged this nation through its public, have been laid to bear for the scam it is. I think we're up to shaping a more principled way forward.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
14. knr. Excellent post. We can always count on Chris Hedges for an
articulate and cogent article!!

Should be required reading for anyone concerned about healthcare financing and provision of care.

Thank you for posting it.

(It's what many of us on DU have been saying for months now!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. yes it is what many of us on DU have been saying..only to get shouted down by cheerleaders to this
bullshit..it should be us at town halls going beserk!

Is this what we dems have been working for ..I know me for over 37 years..i don't think so and i can not be bought out or paid to post propaganda or any other such crap..

My folks have passed on , FORTUNATELY THEY WERE MOSTLY COVERED, although my mom was stuck with 140,000. bill after my dad passed..and I can tell you the bills my hubby and I were stuck with for his mom's passing are no laughing matter!..Fortunately we could afford to pay them, unlike my hubby's brothers...so we paid all the bills..Over $80,000. bucks!

So for those cheerleading who haven't had to deal with death bills and hospital bills for your folks yet..you better think long and hard about cheerleading this bullshit..because they will get you one way or another..Hubby and I don't even live in Calif ..but we were forced to pay my mother in laws bills..or our credit would have been destroyed!

Calif Medi-cal CAME AFTER US IN FLORIDA WHERE WE RESIDE!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. It is just pathetic. We can't even get a liberal board to unite around single payer

The insurance companies are leeches. Plain & simple.

NONE of the bills besides HR676 will actually solve the problem.

But, hey, take what you can get - and shut up about it, if the politician has a D after their name, maybe we can get a meaningless watered down public option that will offer no real competition to the insurance companies...but I love Obama and you are a whiner....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
55. This board is no where near liberal. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. ... this is truly as bad as Cheney letting oil co's write energy legislation ...
:puke: A pox on all their houses! :mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. That is an excellent comparison.
All approved by our democratically controlled House, Senate & White House.

I'm feeling more hopeless every day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
40. It is disgusting and it is time to get angry at EVERY politician who sells out to these leeches

Democrat - Republican - Independent

Health care is a human right - and it is evil to profit off human sickness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. Want to know what Congress and the insurance companies are up to?
Everything you need to know about how they have perverted the public option is right here. We need single-payer!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. This should be it's own op.
Excellent article. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Actually, it was only yesterday.
See DUer debbierlus' OP here. Interestingly enough, it got unrec'ed so many times that at this writing it has zero recs. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. doesn't make me wonder..many of the cheerleaders are paid to spew propaganda..
and to Un'rec!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. And Democrats wonder why they are being screamed at in town hall meetings..
A lot of the anger may be misplaced, but their underlying assumption is that we are all going to end up getting screwed by this reform. Who can argue with that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. 'Single Payer' needs to be renamed
People's Affordable Medical Coverage
American Medical
Citizens Medical

or something that is more self descriptive. And rename the alternative Corporate Profit Coverage, until they area forced to come up with actual coverage. The message needs to be more clear IMHO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. 'Single Payer' needs to be renamed
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 05:02 PM by windoe
People's Affordable Medical Coverage
American Medical
Citizens Medical

or something that is more self descriptive. And rename the alternative Corporate Profit Coverage, until they are forced to come up with actual coverage. The message needs to be more clear IMHO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, marmar.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. go Chris!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. 68 recs for an article that's complete bullshit
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 06:46 PM by ProSense
From the OP article:

“For someone my age who is making $40,000 a year you are required to lay out $5,000 for an insurance premium for coverage that covers nothing until you have spent $2,000 out of pocket,” Himmelstein said. “You are $7,000 out of pocket before you have any coverage at all. For most people that means you are already bankrupt before you have insurance. If anything, that has made them worse off. Instead of having that $5,000 to cover some of their medical expenses they have laid it out in premiums.”

What an idiotic statement. Also where the hell did he get these numbers? The public option threshold is $88,000.

The bills now in Congress will, at best, impose on the country the failed model in Massachusetts.


At best, this is utter bullshit. The House and HELP bills include a public option, which makes them completely different from the Mass plan. Why not acknowledge that fact?

It appears that the only way that the single-payer or nothing crowd can oppose a public option is with bullshit distortion.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. A public plan delayed until 2013 is utterly worthless n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. And what does that have to do with the BS in this article? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. What BS in the article?
Let's have an example.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. It's you who aren't thinking clearly. The good Doctor lives in MA. That's what he pays under Romney
Care. I guess you think you know how much he pays in MA since you live in NJ? You are a piece of work, ProSense.

If the puny non-functional public pools that are level playing fields in HR3200 and The HELP Bill is what you call "The Public Option" then I think you should change the name to something more honest and call it the "Pubic Option" because we are all screwed.

Thank you for your less than salient and totally off the mark commentary. Now go post some more propaganda for the "Pubic Option" you want to ram down everybody's throat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moonbatmax Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. I still want to know how they're going to enforce this.
Will they wait for us to get sick and have to see a doctor, or go to the hospital? Will the pharmacists be required to report us if we don't present proof of insurance when we got to pick up our prescriptions? Of course, I suppose we won't even get a prescription if we can't show the doctor our proof of insurance, so maybe that's a moot point.

Maybe they'll get a little more proactive. Insurance police, anyone? Maybe they'll just start stopping us randomly on the street, demanding our social security cards and proof of health insurance. And what are they going to do if we don't have it? Are they going to fine us? Throw us in jail? Maybe they'll condemn us to death, like they haven't already? Or maybe, in a truly ironic turn of "justice," they'll just bar us from any health care for life... Nah! Just until we sign up, I'm sure. And pay "back premiums" on top of it.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the prospect of any of this is at least as frightening to me as any so-called "death panel." It might not be 1984, but this seems to me the sort of thing that was supposed to scare us about such wonderful places as the Soviet Union.

Just sayin'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amos Moses Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. "The corporate state, enabled by both
Democrats and Republicans"

He's not just talking about a few conservative Blew Dogs when he says "Democrats", either. There are a number of Neoliberal, Corporatist scumbags in our party that are against the working class. They just try to hide it instead of being outspoken like the Dogs. Barack Obama is a perfect example of that.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
36. Article is 100% Correct - Enron, S&L #1, S&L #2, on and on
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 08:38 PM by scentopine
All brought massive windfall profits to a few, screwed the rest of us.

These shit-flys are licking their chops over what is going to be a bonanza in corporate cash. In 4 years we'll be bailing them out.

Unfortunately neo-cons live on as neo-dems. Many of the neo-dems on this board who call this article bullshit remind me of the early neo-cons.

In other words, "Its a free market and and I can buy any senator I want."

They both share the philosophical position that corporations shall be first at the table when it comes to public policy.

Dem and Rep leadership love corporate welfare. In fact, to our three branches of government, we have become little more than a public nuisance.

No business should be allowed to capture historic profits from the suffering of others. Insurance companies want all the cash and no risk. This is unacceptable.

We really are in a new fascist state of existence. That's why Obama admin negotiates with insurance companies and for profit providers in secret and then announces unspecific verbal "agreements" as success. This is an unstable and unsustainable form of government.


On edit - based on comment I agree with, changed the inflammatory to something less so while making the point.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. "The Obamanuts on this board who call this article bullshit, are very much like early neo-cons."
Instead of calling people names based on distortion, standwithdrdean.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Agree, partially, - I edited it.
We are witnessing the audacity of the rhetoric of change but the reality of same. This isn't helping us. Neo cons and neo libs (DLC types) helped usher in the past "reforms' that led to world wide financial catastrophe. The language is the same, the promises and lobbyists are the same, the actors are the same. History is repeating itself.

Too many dems have bought the big lie that private industry can always do anything better than government. A second big lie is that Obama (or Rahm Emanuel) is looking after the public's best interest with all this heart-felt concern for republican bi-partisanship.

Boo fk'n hoo. It wasn't a tie election. Republicans are going to go crazy when they regain control and we won't even have our principals intact to show for it. It's all being bargained away. That's why dems are perceived as weak - we don't fight for what is right, we say one thing and do another. Pelosi and Reid have not been good leaders.

In the end, we really are becoming one party united under fortune 500 states of monoloply. Rest assured, what's good for GM and Cigna and AIG and Healthco CEOs isn't good for the country.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. The Obamanuts & Neo-cons don't understand the policy and its implications

They want a hero, someone who will fix it....

I don't think the Obama supporters truly believe Obama will sell them out to corporatists. And, I don't think the neo-cons thought Bush would betray them, either.

I think it is very human to want to believe that there is a good force out there, on your side, fighting to make things better for you. Obama sold a lot of people on hope, and it is understandable if they are struggling with facing reality. All the facts point to Obama as a corporate salesman & a slick frontman.

It is easier (in the short run) to pretend the people pointing this out are the problem instead of their beloved leader, but the longer it goes on, the harder it gets to pretend.

They will catch up, believe me. A lot of Bushbots eventually caught on & if THEY can figure it out, I am sure Obama supporters will cotton on much more quickly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. PSA:
Obama campaigned on a public option:

DO YOU HAVE A PLAN TO MAKE HEALTH CARE MORE ACCESSIBLE TO AMERICANS? IF SO, HOW WOULD YOU DO IT?

Every American has the right to affordable, comprehensive and portable health coverage. My plan will ensure that all Americans have health care coverage through their employers, private health plans, the federal government, or the states. My plan builds on and improves our current insurance system, which most Americans continue to rely upon, and creates a new public health plan for those currently without coverage. Under my plan, Americans will be able to choose to maintain their current coverage if they choose to. For those without health insurance I will establish a new public insurance program, and provide subsides to afford care for those who need them. My plan includes a mandate that all children have health care coverage and I will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs to help ensure we cover all kids. My plan requires all employers to contribute towards health coverage for their employees or towards the cost of the public plan. Under my plan a typical family will save $2,500 each year. We will realize tremendous savings within the health care system from improving efficiency and quality and reducing wasted expenditures system-wide. Specifically, these savings will result from investments in health information technology, improvements in prevention and management of chronic conditions, increased insurance industry competition and reduced industry overhead, the provision of federal reinsurance for catastrophic coverage, and reduced spending on uncompensated care.

link]

It's delusional to believe that his campaign promise was a code for single payer.

He is advocating the plan he campaigned on.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. I remember this, that doesn't mean I won't fight for change
I stopped campaigning and spending tons of cash after this and speeches that made his corporate position clear. This and his wiretapping support was a deal breaker. I remember when I got a campaign call from a local worker asking me for money, I told him that with Obama's pronouncements like this he should be calling republicans because wiretapping and putting insurance companies first at the table was neo-con strategy.

I still worked for other dem candidates. Now I won't spend a dime or any time on any Dem until I see real improvement in quality of life. I don;t give a damn how many vacations and speeches he gives versus Bush. I want to see some passion and results. 4 years goes by very quickly.

Talk is cheap. Emanuel and Obama are hoping to coast through 2010 mid-terms. They'll do it with the loss of grass roots support. It is foolish to think it won't have an impact. He's made his choices, and he's comfortable with the loss of support and the new fair weather republicans he is recruiting with his bi-partisanship. They'll dump him at the alter as soon as telegenic right winger comes along who isn't a couple of nut cases like McCain/Palin.

And we'll be right back where we started. Making fun of republicans when we should be taking democratic leadership to the woodshed.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. See, ProSense falsely accuses you of claiming that Obama was for single payer or something.
You never said that. You never made any kind of claim like that. Yet that doesn't stop her from pretending that you did.

And the really sad thing is, if the Romney plan becomes our national plan the Dems are going to lose really big time. ProSence will blame the Repos, blame the insurance companies who will tell her thanks for the money and laugh in her face all the way to the bank, she will blame people who were pro-single payer; But she will never ever consider that her dishonesty, her propaganda campaign, her lack of civility ever had an effect on people that would result in their saying, "Who needs this crap?"

I have no problem that we disagree on the issue. I disagree on the issues with plenty of people I like and who like me. I just can't cotton the propaganda and the deceptive, less than honest and less than straight forward way she attempts to push her agenda.

Just like she did with you and her, 'Obama never said he supports single payer.' It's so distasteful and Rovian.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Are you infatuated with my screen name?
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 10:02 PM by ProSense
What gives?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amos Moses Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Not much to say after getting wrecked like that, is there?
:spray:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #52
62. It must be getting good.
I can't really tell. I only have one person on ignore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amos Moses Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. If you can read JQC's posts
then you can read the best parts of the exchange. Pro Scents doesn't have much to say.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. It's dishonest, condescending, and arrogant to pretend anyone claims Obama promised single payer.
However, Obama lied repeatedly to all 300 million Americans
And you are enabling a liar.
They say birds of a feather...
PSA: ProSense Enables Liars

Obama flip-flops on requiring people to buy health care.
Walk back with us through the mists of time to early 2008, and you might remember then-candidate Barack Obama defending the rights of hard-working people so they would not be forced to buy health insurance.

Obama's position was different from his two nearest rivals, Hillary Clinton and John Edwards, who included mandates for individuals to buy health insurance in their plans for reform. It was an issue that got downright contentious on the campaign trail.

At a debate in South Carolina, Edwards said Obama's plan really wasn't universal health care, since it didn't have a mandate to ensure everyone was covered.

Obama replied that his plan was universal (a claim we rated Barely True ) and explained why he was against a mandate: "A mandate means that in some fashion, everybody will be forced to buy health insurance. ... But I believe the problem is not that folks are trying to avoid getting health care. The problem is they can't afford it. And that's why my plan emphasizes lowering costs."

Obama said at the time it was possible some people would refuse to buy health care under his plan.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/20/barack-obama/obama-flip-flops-requiring-people-buy-health-care/


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. That comment is dishonest, and the obsessive whining about Obama
isn't going to do a single thing for single payer.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. It isn't reform; It's robbery!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SergeStorms Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #46
58. Wow........
Long time lurker, first time poster, but I can remember a day at DU when saying something like that would be cause for immediate tombstoning. The times they are a changin'!

Oh, and I agree with you 100%.;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. Thanks,
I think.

Welcome to the posting side of life.

Have you looked at the rules? They are a good thing to know.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
44. No SIngle Payer? Stop working. General Strike. We are already paying for this. They use our money
for war instead.

Stop working. Or change your W-4 to have 15 dependents and
stop paying Fed and State taxes.

Only pay into Soc Sec and Medicare.

Get a resale license and stop paying Sales Taxes. 


Put the money you save into a collective fund to pay for our
single payer.
If the government will not pay what we want it to pay with our
taxes, then
we need to find a way to pay for these services ourselves and
cut the government out.

Any ideas?

Like Mondragon? 

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. The best idea I've heard yet. Taxpayers strike!
Lyndon Johnson said that the American people wouldn't object to taxes if they knew that they were getting something of value, and an honest return on those taxes. We've gotten to the point where we don't get much value from income taxes anymore. We still get a lot of value and a good return on Medicare taxes, and Social Security taxes, but they could be improved with a major overhaul of Part D.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
51. K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amos Moses Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
54. Another good Hedges article : Buying Brand Obama
Barack Obama is a brand. And the Obama brand is designed to make us feel good about our government while corporate overlords loot the Treasury, our elected officials continue to have their palms greased by armies of corporate lobbyists, our corporate media diverts us with gossip and trivia and our imperial wars expand in the Middle East. Brand Obama is about being happy consumers. We are entertained. We feel hopeful. We like our president. We believe he is like us. But like all branded products spun out from the manipulative world of corporate advertising, we are being duped into doing and supporting a lot of things that are not in our interest.


http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090503_buying_brand_obama/

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. You can see that it is working very well here. Seems that too many
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 02:26 AM by cui bono
have checked their critical thinking at the door and Obama can do no wrong. He's the chess master, he's planned everything that has happened so far and it's going just how he wants it to so that he can save us all.

They won't even criticize him for doing the same things that Bush did. That is pathetic.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amos Moses Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. They try to trivialize the issues just like the right wing does.
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 03:54 AM by Amos Moses
Trivialize the issues, discredit nonbelievers as un American traitors, blame any criticism on a biased media. I guess that's what you have to do when you take a right wing stance on the issues.

Now they're in damage control mode IRT health care. They know he's going to sign some garbage bill and it's all going to be the fault of Congress, the media, insurance and pharmaceutical companies, etc.

Thing is, they would be the first to give him every bit of the credit if meaningful reform was passed but, in their eyes, he'll never be on the hook if it might reflect poorly on his image.

Making excuses for bad policy is the same tactic Repuke voters resorted to for the previous eight years and it's what has kept the Corporate Party in power after President Cheney left office. For all intents and purposes, this is his third term. :puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. neo-lib and neo-con sameness, its a single party government until
repubs regain control. Then, all the bi-partisan love Obama is showering on them will be forgotten. The repubs will waste no time dispensing with bi-partisanship and we'll have wasted 4 years. Insurance companies will get the treasury to share with wall street and the average citizen will see their quality of life continue to degrade while the upper 1% continues to enjoy explosive wealth.

In case anyone didn't notice - Palin still got a scary number of votes. We have so little time, republicans don't give a rat's ass about the public. Their objective is to stay rich preserving corporations and their monopolies over health care by structuring policy to their own benefit. Neo-libs also share the idea of a corporate super citizen with special rights and privileges and protection from prosecution. Even the current right-wing supreme court often uses language that equates corporations with a special form of citizenship. Its the continuation of Reaganomics and trickle down.

Neo-libs are not able to differentiate themselves, they market themselves as "Bush-Lite". Dem leadership has failed to differentiate the positive values of the liberal democratic platform. Fox news makes this difficult. Reid and Pelosi and Obama are not up to the task. So, they offer appeasement and compromise. Like Neville Chamberlain.

Eventually, the public says - why should I vote for an imitation republican when I can vote for a real republican? Its a democratic party marketing disaster.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
60. I was among the lucky who got a pay raise last year - but a DECREASE in net pay
due primarily to increase in health care premiums. It nearly happened the year before as well. This year we don't get pay raises so I am sure to have significantly lower take home pay, since we know health care premiums will go up again.

This is happening everywhere. Maybe Democrats need to take their examples down to this level to get through to some people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
66. kr
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC