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"Evil and Orwellian--America's Right Turns Its Fire on the NHS" (Guardian UK--with reader comments)

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:16 PM
Original message
"Evil and Orwellian--America's Right Turns Its Fire on the NHS" (Guardian UK--with reader comments)
The National Health Service has become the butt of increasingly outlandish political attacks in the US as Republicans and conservative campaigners rail against Britain's "socialist" system as part of a tussle to defeat Barack Obama's proposals for broader government involvement in healthcare.

Top-ranking Republicans have joined bloggers and well-funded free market organisations in scorning the NHS for its waiting lists and for "rationing" the availability of expensive treatments.

As myths and half-truths circulate, British diplomats in the US are treading a delicate line in correcting falsehoods while trying to stay out of a vicious domestic dogfight over the future of American health policy.

Slickly produced television advertisements trumpet the alleged failures of the NHS's 61-year tradition of tax-funded healthcare. To the dismay of British healthcare professionals, US critics have accused the service of putting an "Orwellian" financial cap on the value on human life, of allowing elderly people to die untreated and, in one case, for driving a despairing dental patient to mend his teeth with superglue.

More at

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/11/nhs-united-states-republican-health
--------------------------------------------------------
Now here are some of the readers' comments from the same URL:

As a Brit currently living in Canada, the general noise that the American "debate" on healthcare reform is generating is quite awe inspiring. What is distinctly less inspirational is the tone, content and vitriol that seems to be the main content of much of the Right's opposition to reform. It is ironic that a country that will trust 'big government' to run such an astoundingly large military seems to think that it is incapable of running healthcare. And this is despite the healthcare for ex- and current soldiers being (in American terms at least) pretty good...

An American friend was horrified when she realised she was going to give birth to her first child in the UK - until her ante-natal visit to the maternity unit. My sister was with her, and our friend was astonished to find the NHS was as well-equipped as any US hospital. They're told the UK's healthcare is like that of a third-world country.

Having suffered from asthma all my life I can say with hand on heart...
In the US I would be dead by now.

I worked in the NHS as a nurse during my clinical training, and I was amazed at the excellent service given to patients. It's not perfect, but it's universal. America should be ASHAMED at its disgusting health-care system. It's one of the worst in the world, simply because it only treats people if they have insurance or a credit card at the ready.

I am a NHS doctor and worked in American for one year in 2004. I was offered a good position to stay on but decided to return to the UK due to the 'ridiculous' health care system there. I saw elderly patients frequently complaining about unable to afford the cost of medications, young people with no insurance relying on charity on paying off their RTA injuries. Patients arguing with 'profit-driven' insurance company about the small print exclusions in their policy and doctors doing unnecessary investigations/treatments to boost their incomes.

Yes the NHS is not particularly brilliant as a luxury service. The ultra-rich will always be better off with personal medical care. But why should government worry about the ultra-rich? They can take care of themselves. Surely government exists to take care of the people who need help. Which of course is a strong "socialist" opinion that people here in the States don't agree with. I fail to understand how you can disagree though - it's fundamental.

effing yanks can take their crummy life expectancy and massive medical bills and piss off as far as I'm concerned. Having experienced the US system for many years I've come to realize it's utterly crap, so why it's now being defended by right-wing wing-nuts I've no idea.

I live in Britain now, and while the NHS certainly has its problems, I wouldn't trade it for the vastly inequitable US system, nor do I grudge a penny that comes out of my pay to support it. One of the unexpected and gratifying facets of living with national health care, aside from that first time waiting in line with your cheque book and a sinking heart, only to be told you've already paid for it, is the almighty stink raised by the public in the face of NHS failure. There's a degree of accountability here that may in fact be fueling the fracas on other side of the pond: when the NHS screws up, it's visible. That's a product of public health care itself: the public own it, so the public feel justified in shouting at their elected representatives about it, and do, on a regular basis.

There are many more comments where these from. :-)
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Trending twitter hashtag: #welovetheNHS
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Craftsman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. When my wife was in grad school she knew to brit doctors
They were doing their residency here and where angling not to have to go back. They hated the HNS. From what they told me many of the best and brightest look for a way out.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. What on earth is the HNS?
Nice try, but no cigar!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nice.
I'm glad to see people calling these idiots on their lies.

Not that their lemmings will notice, preferring cable teevee "news" to actual information.
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BirminghamExaminer Donating Member (943 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. I just saw a video of Glenn Beck talking with a member of the British
parliament telling how awful the NHS is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wcWlHTRcTE
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. If only they had the facts on their side...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6275999#6276269

Click the link above for the hyperlinks, I'm too lazy to repost them again here:

Look at the evidence provided by the Business Roundtable Report On Health Care, "which represents CEOs of major companies". Last time I checked the CEOs of major companies weren't stereotyped as super-liberal, socialist or biased in favor of government, etc.

Summary from MSNBC:

"...Americans spend $2.4 trillion a year on health care. The Business Roundtable report says Americans in 2006 spent...at least two-and-a-half times more per person than any other advanced country.

In a different twist, the report took those costs and factored benefits into the equation.

It compares statistics on life expectancy, death rates and even cholesterol readings and blood pressures. The health measures are factored together with costs into a 100-point "value" scale. That hasn't been done before, the authors said..

The results are not encouraging.

The United States is 23 points behind five leading economic competitors: Canada, Japan, Germany, the United Kingdom and France. The five nations cover all their citizens, and though their systems differ, in each country the government plays a much larger role than in the U.S.

The cost-benefit disparity is even wider — 46 points — when the U.S. is compared with emerging competitors: China, Brazil and India...".
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, Lydia Leftcoast.:thumbsup:
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here is one comment
"Palin is the most evil thing to come from America since the A-bomb"

:thumbsup:
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. Apparently no sense of irony at all.
It is the propaganda campaign against health care reform that is "Orwellian". The NHS is not even remotely Orwellian. These dimwits are confusing bureaucracy with being "Orwellian", but that is most likely no accident. They would probably call it "Stalinist" if they thought they could sell that.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Our "pay-or-die" system is Orwellian
or maybe Kafkaesque.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. "Kafkaesque" actually works very well for US health care.
At least for some of us.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Some poor soul called Thom yesterday
3/4 of the way through his cancer treatment, he hit his lifetime max with his private insurer, so they dropped him. He managed to get some (extremely expensive) insurance elsewhere, which bankrupted him. But he was able to finish his cancer regimen and survive. Had he not been rich enough to get the second insurance...

Some of these stories make Kafka's worst nightmare look like Full House.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It's like whatever you do, it's wrong.
Especially if you are out there in the "free market".
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Robbie88 Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Yes.
There is also some irony in the fact that the right is using the fictional works of George Orwell, an ardent socialist, as a means of smearing those who support reform.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Good point.
If there is one thing you can be sure of, Orwell would have hated for-profit health care.
:thumbsup:
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Robbie88 Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. No doubt. Orwell must be rolling in his grave... n/t
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. They'll pull anything out of their asses...
...as long as it disrupts the debate and mobilizes the primitive base. Facts do not matter here, only results.
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
16. Sounds like some people on the right have never got over Nye Bevan.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. k&r!!!
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