Packing Heat in Our National Parks: How Did We Let the Gun Fanatics Get Their Way?

[katty]

more:
http://www.alternet.org/rights/140237/packing_heat_in_our_national_parks%3A_how_did_we_let_the_gun_fanatics_get_their_way/

Packing Heat in Our National Parks: How Did We Let the Gun Fanatics Get Their Way?

By Marie Cocco, Washington Post Writers Group. Posted May 26, 2009.

Our national parks are among the safest places in America. So against what, exactly, are the proponents of the new gun law defending themselves?


WASHINGTON -- Hiking boots, check. Sunscreen, check. Water bottles, check.Guns, clips, ammo. Check, check, check.It's enough to make you sick before you've grilled a single hot dog. Just as the National Park Service was kicking off the summer season by reminding us that these public jewels "offer tradition, heritage, recreation and fun for all members of the family," the National Rifle Association was having one heck of a good time. The gun lobby had much to celebrate this Memorial Day weekend.With their usual steely conviction, contempt for the rights and safety of others, and string of nonsensical arguments, gun supporters in Congress managed to accomplish what even President George W. Bush failed to do with a last-minute rule that was blocked in court: They pushed through a law to allow national park visitors to carry loaded weapons -- openly or concealed -- in the millions of acres of wilderness, scenic byways and historic sites that generations of Americans have come to treasure.It is difficult to calculate which is the more dangerous menace: the disdain the gun lobby shows for the nation's most beloved public spaces, or the gutless Democrats, especially in the Senate, who went along with this abomination.

[T Wolf]

1. They do not want to defend themselves. They just cannot wait to get at the varmints residing in the

National Hunting Preserves.

Hey Boo-Boo. You better stay in your cave all year round.

[JuniperLea]

2. You'd probably be surprised to know...

That people who camp in the National Parks have been packing for years, forever, actually.

I haven't camped in a NP for a long while, but I can tell you that whether it was with my grandfather, or with my own family, there was always a revolver stashed in camp. I've never in my life camped without one. Never. I'm no "gun fanatic" either.

I know without question that I am not alone in this.

[slackmaster]

4. I never go on any lengthy road trip without bringing a firearm for self-defense

Unless it involves driving into another country, a military base, or somewhere else where possession of a weapon is a crime.

I'm not copping to doing anything illegal BTW. It's presently legal to have a firearm in a National Park. It just can't be handy and loaded. If someone has a permit to carry it that way (which I do not), I don't see a problem with it.

[Captain Hilts]

8. To be honest, I wouldn't go camping without one. nt

[JuniperLea]

12. Too many creepy weirdos around...

Too many unlawful idiots... robbers, murderers, rapists... criminals do not follow the rules, do not adhere to the laws. No law goes unbroken.

[joeybee12]

18. Where the phuck do you camp?

Anyone i know feels no need to take a gun camping, especially in a national park....sheer stupidity.

[JuniperLea]

30. Yep... sheer stupidity...

To be miles from the nearest ranger station, unarmed, and open to all that the weird world dishes out.

Mammoth Lakes

Yellowstone

Brice's Crossroads

Zion

Kings Canyon

Sequoia

Muir Woods

Yosemite

Joshua Tree

Death Valley

Curecante

Hovenweep

Santa Fe

Yucca House

Cache La Poudre

Craters of the Moon

Minidoka

Nez Perce

Nicodemus

Big South Fork

Trail of Tears

Pipestone

Natchez Trace

Tupelo

Bighorn Canyon

Glacier

Scotts Bluff

Lake Mead

Knife River

Just a few off the top of my head. Mostly in the outter reaches, away from motor roads. Fifty years worth.



Edited to ask where you camp... Will J. Reid Park?

[Demeter]

39. Okay...

You know, I grew up in Detroit at the time of the riots, and no one in my family, except for one very crazy uncle, felt the need to stash guns in the house....

[slackmaster]

3. Another "Blood will run in the streams!" hyperbolic nonsensical editorial

All this would do is allow people who are already permitted by their state to carry weapons legally, carry them in parts of the state that happen to be within a National Park.

Objective criteria for issuing weapons permits has not resulted in the kind of "blood in the streets" scenario depicted in the dire predictions of knee-jerk gun prohibitionists. It's even less likely to have that effect in a peaceful place where there aren't as many people.

If it makes people feel safer to keep the same weapons they carry everywhere else, what harm could realistically come from this? They aren't causing trouble in your local shopping mall, suburban park, beach, etc. They won't cause trouble in a National Park either.

[DrDan]

6. lunacy - simple lunacy

we need instead more control - not less.

[JuniperLea]

11. No law ever stopped a criminal

If it did, there would be more laws and fewer prisons.

[DBoon]

21. all laws are thus useless

Anarchy!

[JuniperLea]

29. Naw...

Law abiding people obey them. That's all we can ask.

[DrDan]

38. so . . . why are all those folks taking up residence in the state prisons

looks to me like they were stopped by a law.

[T Wolf]

7. Bullshit. Gunsters who would be inhibited from emptying a clip at the local mall would

have no qualms about doing that in "gawd's own shooting gallery." After all - there would not be any of those anti-American gun-grabbers around to prevent them from enjoying their divine right to bear and use arms.

And if something or someone happens to get in the line of fire - who cares? Nothing better keep them from letting the lead fly.

[slackmaster]

9. You have a very jaundiced view of people who have concealed-carry permits

If you would look at available facts, you would find that they are among the LEAST likely people to commit crimes.

The state of Texas tracks conviction rates for people who have been issued concealed weapons permits.

Check this out, if you aren't afraid of having your preconceived notions challenged:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm

[joeybee12]

19. And you have a totally incomprehensible view of reality...

...why the phuck do you need a gun in a national park, and your so-called facts are nothing but gun nut propoganda designed for people unable to think for themselves,.

[slackmaster]

23. The Texas Department of Public Safety is a source of "gun nut propaganda"?

Wow.

And you have a totally incomprehensible view of reality...

I almost took that as a personal attack, but it's really just an admission that you are not capable of understanding my point. Or perhaps unwilling to look at things with an open mind.

[JuniperLea]

10. What has this to do with shooting areas?

There are areas in the wilderness where it's allowed, and areas where it isn't. Shooting and packing are two different things.

[jehovas_waitress]

33. Not a divine right, but the 2nd one granted to me in the Bill of Rights

I guess that makes me a "gunster". True, I'm new here and never heard that term for legally exercising my rights. And it is "keep and bear arms", as I'm sure everyone is aware.
And my pistols use MAGAZINES, not "clips".

A pistol is an inaminate piece of steel and will remain so forever until and unless a human being decides to pick it up and use it with murderous intent or for self defense against same.

People who have legally registered their guns, been licensed, bonded and insured and trained should be able to carry in a park the same as carrying in a 7-11.

[ananda]

5. WE didn't let the gun fanatics get their way.

The NRA lobby, with all that money, did.

The lobbies and banks own Congress for the
most part.

[natrat]

13. uh yea "we" did-harry scumbag ried and the rest of his democrat pals in true enabling fashion

[Doctor_J]

14. they get their way on everything

the 2nd amendment is the only one that remains sacrosanct

[slackmaster]

15. It's not sacrosanct - It's been infringed

Pretty heavily, in fact.

[MichaelHarris]

16. Been to almost

every national park and about a gazillion state parks, never once needed a gun. I'm 51 now and I still don't need a gun. Wonder what it's like walking peacefully in the woods surrounded by all that fear?

[joeybee12]

20. Amen! Yeah, the crime rate is so high in national parks and camping areas...

nice to know there are gun nuts here trying to justify their irrational love of firearms.

[vadawg]

37. yup like theres no meth labs, or illegal grows in them thar woods

you would be surprised at the amount of crap that goes on away from the prying eyes of your average park dweller, personally i have no problem with concealed carry, just as long as you tell me when i approach and dont let me discover it for myself.

[joeybee12]

17. There is NO reason to have a gun in a national Park...NONE

To all you yahoos asying you always camp with one, WHY? If you obey the rules, there is virtually no danger from animals...I can only assume you like shooting animals, which is what is going to happen now that this ridiculous, infantile law is in place. Assholes!

[slackmaster]

24. I take them on all road trips, including camping trips, because of the possibility of running into a

Problem human. Even in civilized areas the chance of law enforcement being there to assist you when you need it is slim to none. In the wilderness it may be hours or days before someone responds to a cell phone call for help.

[safeinOhio]

26. When seconds count

Park Rangers are only hrs. away.

[jehovas_waitress]

32. Exactly.. criminals don't care about the same gun laws that I obey..and

as the saying goes "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy".

[here_is_to_hope]

28. Hi, I am a stupid yahoo.

And you seem to say I am an asshole too.
Get a grip, these are my rights, as a gun owner.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. YOur inability to realize the difference between carrying for protection and target shooting is

noted, as is your lack or rational argument. You do win the hyperbole prize for this thread.

I have camped for years. Every so often there is some idiot that threatens the tranquility and at times the safety of others. Most of the times alcohol or other drug is involved. For those times, having the ability to defend oneself or family is a good thing.

Ranger response in the boonies can be days. What else do you suggest, camping axes at 10 paces?

[old mark]

22. I have been licensed to carry a gun for over 15 years, and I do so every time

I leave the house.
If you feel so strongly against guns, you are certainly free not to have any. Fortunately those of us who feel differently have the right to act on our beliefs. Like free choice, free speech, and all that.....

mark

[shireen]

25. as a woman, i welcome this ruling

i want to be able to wander around national parks and wildlife refuges without feeling afraid. I've been in situations where I've feared for my safety, and as a result, I rarely get to enjoy the woods in solitude. If i have to defend myself, having a gun and the training to use it properly compensates for my lack of physical strength.

[Redneck Socialist]

27. Wow, it only took her four sentences to get something wrong.

Marie, Marie, Marie <shakes head sadly> do yourself (and your readers) a favor. Step back from the keyboard and take a few deep breaths.

The poutrage generated over this bill is more than a little baffling to me. It is amusing though.

In most every state in the country Joe Schmo can jump through whatever hoops his state sees fit to place in his path, get himself a concealed carry permit and lug his trusty side arm down to the mall and everyone is pretty much ok with that. However, the minute poor Joe steps off the beaten path and into the National Park down the street and it's all "Oh Noes! Teh sky is falling!"

I don't get it.

I also don't get the writer's unsupported assertion that the gun lobby has ...contempt for the rights and safety of others." This little bit is a head scratcher as well: "In the gun lobby's crabbed worldview, the enjoyment of others -- let alone the safety of others -- is of little concern."

How Joe, with his concealed carry permit in one pocket and a Smith and Wesson in the other, is going to impact the enjoyment and safety of any other visitor to the park is unclear to me. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to take Marie's word for it, though given that about a third of her rant is a hit piece on Obama, perhaps I'll be excused for casting a critical eye toward her scribblings.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

31. If this was such a great idea, why didn't it stand on its own feet?

In fact, it is attached as an Amendment to the credit card bill, under the Miscellaneous Provisions category: http://tinyurl.com/pjdnx4

It's even deceptive in its title: Sec. 512. Protecting Americans from violent crime.

If arming people in National Parks is such a great idea, why wasn't it put up to stand on its own merits instead of being slipped into a completely unrelated bill at the last instant?

It smacks of the "Real I.D. Act," which essentially established a national I.D. card under the guise of "standardizing" driver licenses across the states. Again, a GOP wet dream that was slipped in at the last minute to an essential bill.

I live next door to Joshua Tree National Park, where we have coyotes which are of no threat to people -- they're cowards. I'll bet someone finds an excuse to kill one, however. We recently had an incident where a newcomer to the community left her small dog in the back yard, where it became a coyote's meal. She had animal control come out and kill a coyote -- not the coyote, just a coyote. There were a lot of letters to the editor about this: "If you move out here for the wildlife, then don't kill it!"

A lot of visitors bring small dogs to the Park, and despite the rules they let them run around off leash. There are coyotes in the Park looking for their next meal. You do the math. I bet it won't be a week after the law takes effect that we have our first coyote shooting. Sad.

[struggle4progress]

35. Because that's the only way the gun lobby could sneak it through

[kickysnana]

36. Duh! Because we didn't put the offense in when we won in 2006 & 8 elections. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

40. YOU MAY OR MAYBE MAY NOT KNOW THAT IN TN THEY

ARE PROPOSING A NEW LAW THAT A PERSON CAN CARRY A GUN INTO A BAR. I SURE WILL NEVER TO AT A BAR IN TN AS A PLACE I WOULD WANT TO GO. TO MANY DRUNKS MIGHT GET PISSED AND PULL THE GUN OUT. BESIDES THAT I DON'T DRINK AND I WOULD NEVER GO TO A BAR.

[katty]

42. where is local law enforcement on this? on OK to carry guns

--if I were a cop I would be strongly opposing this.

[Redneck Socialist]

43. WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING!!!!

All caps is generally considered the on line equivalent of shouting, just fyi.

As to your point, many states allow concealed carry in bars and other establishments that sell booze. It's been a non-issue in my state. For the most part the people who go to the trouble of getting a concealed carry permit aren't the type to get drunk and start shooting.

And, welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Lorien]

41. The thumb sucking, bed wetting tiny penis lobby is strong in America

the MSM has turned much of this country into a Nation of gun clinging cowards. Their rights always trump those of us who want to live peacefully, without having to concern ourselves with the mental stability of those who see potential attackers around every tree and bush.