Thomas Kostigen: The happiest taxes on earth (higher taxed countries have higher rates of happiness)

[UrbScotty]

Northern Europeans are the happiest people on the planet, according to a new survey.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development says people in Denmark, Finland and the Netherlands are the most content with their lives. The three ranked first, second and third, respectively, in the OECD's rankings of "life satisfaction," or happiness.

There are myriad reasons, of course, for happiness: health, welfare, prosperity, leisure time, strong family, social connections and so on. But there is another common denominator among this group of happy people: taxes.

Northern Europeans pay some of the highest taxes in the world. Danes pay about two-thirds of their income in taxes. Why be so happy about that? It all comes down to what you get in return.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-happiest-places-on-earth-are-heavily-taxed

[NC_Nurse]

1. But, I thought lower taxes were the cure for EVERYTHING!

:crazy:

[UrbScotty]

9. Exactly!

I mean, look how well we're doing now thanks to GWB!

:sarcasm:

[napi21]

2. I've seen TV programs about that. The determination was that

the happiest people were in Denmark. Sure, they still complain about their taxes, but they also accept that if they want all the benefits they have, there's a price to pay, so they accept the taxes.j It always amazes me that the people in the US who complain the loudest are the ones who can most afford higher taxes without feeling any effect! I never made A LOT of $$ in my lifetime, and I"m retired now, but I always weighed the benefits of any tax increase against the cost to me, and most of the time, I just acce[ted the new tax because I wanted the bene!

[ixion]

3. what you get in return: a society on the dole

no thanks.

[eShirl]

4. wtf does that even mean?

[ixion]

7. it means a welfare state

in short.

For people who enjoy filling out forms and standing in long lines and living like a pauper, it's just dandy, I guess. Not something I'm really interested in, though.

Don't get me wrong: I believe we can have a first class health and human services system. The difference is that I think we can pay for it with the money we pay in taxes now. What we need to stop doing is funding the Military Industrial Complex and waging illegal war around the world. Those two things alone would free up a couple trillion. We need to stop putting non-violent people in jail, and stop sending billions to law enforcement so they can accomplish that. We need to curtail the amount of money our government pays its functionaries. Right now, it's a gravy train for a certain set of people. That should not be. If just these few changes were made, we would have plenty to care for the sick and elderly, etc.

[KitSileya]

10. Living like a pauper?

Where do you get these things? As a Norwegian citizen, I can disabuse of the notion that we "live like paupers" - we probably have the highest living standard of any nation on Earth. No, we don't have many super-duper-platinum-plated-millionaires who skew every mean, but then we don't have a lot of homeless people either, or people living on the very edge. In other words, the median is the norm.

No long lines either - I didn't have to wait to get treated for acute cholecystitis the other week, and paid the princely sum of $137 for my ER visit, a three-night stay in hospital, and medication after being discharged. I also got an appointment in 3 months to check if I need to remove my gallbladder - since I had no history of gallbladder trouble, they figured waiting to see if I would have further trouble would be wise before removing it. If I had had trouble before, they would have removed it then and there. When I ruined my ankle, and it didn't get better, a visit to my GP produced an appointment to an orthopedic specialist 14 days later, and 2 days after that appointment, I had surgery. I wouldn't call that unreasonably long waiting...

However, bureaucracy is rampant - but is that so different in the US?

[ixion]

12. where do I get them? from traveling around Europe.

but fair enough, I shouldn't generalize.

And I do believe you have a much better healthcare system in the EU, without question.

And yes, bureaucracy is rampant here in the US, and I believe it is the cause of much of our trouble. Too many bureaucrats living off our taxes and serving only a select group of people. I was able to witness this first hand while working a temporary government contract. What I saw was a taxpayer-funded country club, of sorts. People show up, fill out the proper paperwork, and play by the rules and then they don't have to do any real work, and what they do produce doesn't even have to be valid. None of that matters. All that matters is that they play the game.

It reminded me of elementary school.

And when I look at my water bill, for example, and I understand first-hand what this money is going to fund, it disgusts me. Incompetence is the rule in the public sector, not the exception. And this is symptomatic of a) allowing idiots to hold the reigns of power; and b) paying them too much to do so.

It makes it very difficult for me to justify giving them more money.

[AdHocSolver]

15. There is just as much incompetence, waste, and fraud in the "private" sector.

It is just covered up better in the private sector.

Enron-like corporations abound, and I couldn't believe how incompetent and greedy the management was at the bank I once worked for.

Having worked at or dealt with many organizations over the years, I can't say that I noticed any big difference between private, corporate, nonprofit, or government bureaucracies. My opinion of them was determined by my particular experience with a specific bureaucracy, not what type they were.

[ixion]

16. Enron-like companies are quasi-public

in the sense that they've grown so large as to become a bureaucracy in and of themselves.

Companies like Enron -- that is: any company that has grown so large that they no longer concern themselves with a client base -- these companies take on the form of mini-governments. By that, I mean they make a profit while treating 'customers' like crap.

Such is the relationship of modern government to the individual.

The primary difference -- and again Enron is a prime example -- is that companies like this eventually fail, just like the governments do.

[madmom]

5. If what is given is paid for,by society, with taxes, how can that be considered "on the dole"?

[ixion]

11. that is the very definition of the dole, imo

Our government has not shown me that it knows how to handle the taxes I pay now. Why in the world would I want to give them more?

I am a capitalist. I make no apologies about it. I don't like to pay taxes, in general, although I understand the concept of a general fund required to operate a civilized society. Fair enough. But what I see is a group of people living high on the hog on the money I pay in taxes, and not really doing much for the 'greater good', but for a small, select group who have "paid to play," and this sickens me.

My belief is that we could have a Cadillac health and human services department if we would stop funneling money to wars of aggression, law enforcement and privatized prisons, as well as the MIC. We would also do well to create a referendum capping the salaries of our so-called representatives in DC, who never shy at a chance to vote to raise their pay.

[Doctor_J]

13. If you are an unapologetic capitalist, then you shouldn't complain

about "a small group of people living high on the hog on the money you pay in taxes". that's the way capitalism works. The ones with the most capital write the laws, get all the benefits of society, and then do most of the complaining about how the system works.

[ixion]

14. no, that's the way cronyism works

capitalism is about producing a quality product for a fair price, and standing behind what you produce.

That's an old-fashioned one, I admit, but it's the way I feel about it.

[bread_and_roses]

17. Capitalism is "about" producing a profit, not a quality product

No quarrel with you on the MIC, private prisons, etc., but your view of capitalism has no basis in reality.

[ixion]

18. I'm glad we agree on some stuff...

my view of capitalism, however, is steeped in reality, although I admit on the grand scale of things, that is by and large not the way that it's working these days.

There was a time, however...

My idea of capitalism is borne from a different era, and could be considered a romantic or idealist definition. It was handed down to me by my father and grandfather, so it is based on reality, albeit a somewhat informal, generational kind. :hi:

There is this, as well: The businesses that practice cronyism were once small companies that did something right, in large part, and did it well.

Starbucks is a great example.

[bread_and_roses]

19. What different era? There have always been "a few good men"

and your father and grandfather must have been among them, for you to cling to such a romantic vision of a system that is, literally, destroying the earth we live on.

Capitalism in any era has always been about profit, exploitation and fraud be damned if you can get away with it. Turn of the century capitalism worked children twelve and more hours a day, sold the poor "milk" contaminated with chalk, tossed aside mutilated workers with indifference - on and on - it's all in the history books.

And Starbucks are union-busting profiteers. I am happy to see their pretentious prices and exploitation of consumers and workers getting a little just reward.

I appreciate your polite response and realize I sound harsh and confrontational, so I thank you for your courtesy and applaud your recognition of the deadly consequences to all of us of the MIC, etc. But, the reality is those deadly, destructive systems are kept in power by our worship of and deference to "capitalism." Their only social function is to create profit for a few Olegarchs.

[ixion]

20. hmmm... well, I could point to ANY system of government

and find where they've treated their populace like garbage. In fact, most governments that exist today (though not all) treat their populace like garbage. China and Russia are not Capitalist systems, per se, but both countries tend to treat the locals like so much rubbish. I can name government after government that does it, irregardless of their political bent.

Thus, I totally agree with you government is malicious, by and large. I don't, however, blame that on Capitalism, Communism, etc in and of itself. It is a systemic problem that will not be fixed by raising taxes, which what this was about initially. It will be fixed only when the populace stops allowing itself to be cowed by carpet-baggers an con-folk.

Personally, I would be delighted to see a more benign, enlightened government. History isn't on our side in this though, so I'm not holding my breath.

I think we're both passionate about our beliefs, despite our differences, and am glad we're able to have an intelligent conversation. :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

6. Commonism!

[Demeter]

8. AND They're Smug About It

except for those hell-bent on turning their Northern culture into a parody of the US, broken economy and all.