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Guardian: The Ho Chi Minh trail leads to Baghdad

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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 06:29 PM
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Guardian: The Ho Chi Minh trail leads to Baghdad
The Ho Chi Minh trail leads to Baghdad

John McCain's unwavering support for the Iraq war shows he has failed to learn the lessons of Vietnam

By Muhammad Cohen

01/10/08 "The Guardian" -- - John McCain is trying to win the war in Vietnam on the streets on Baghdad. When asked in Friday's presidential debate to identify the lessons of Iraq, he reminded voters that he missed the lessons of Vietnam. "I think the lessons of Iraq are very clear that you cannot have a failed strategy that will then cause you to nearly lose a conflict," he said.

McCain still believes that in Iraq and Vietnam the problem was the wrong strategy, not the wrong war. It may be the last thing in this campaign McCain says that's true to his core beliefs and record, but he's wrong. Dead wrong.

As Jeffrey Goldberg reports in his cover story in the October issue of the Atlantic, McCain believes that Vietnam was winnable, and that politicians lost that war because they didn't let the military do its job. If only they would have let him and his fellow Navy flyers bomb North Vietnam back to the Stone Age, the US could have prevailed.

Colin Powell, who served two terms in Vietnam as mid-level officer, admits he too was troubled by his Vietnam experience. That led him to formulate the Powell Doctrine, eight questions to be answered before the US takes military action. The Iraq invasion failed at least six of the eight tests, including "Is a vital US security interest threatened?" and "Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?" After opposing an attack on Iraq from the dawn of the Bush administration, Powell got dragged along out of the loyalty to the president, but sees his support for the war as "a blot" on his record.

In contrast, McCain was a cheerleader for the Iraq invasion, remains proud of it and hasn't learned a thing that will help him make the right decision when the next war of choice comes along. "There is no such thing as containment," he tells Goldberg, underscoring the frightening doctrine of pre-emptive war while confirming his aversion to reflection and his Vietnam obsession.

McCain doesn't understand lesson number one of Vietnam: you can't win a political war with foreign military troops. Whatever the war in Iraq began as, it's a political war now. The presence of US troops undermines the legitimacy and appeal of the Iraqi government that needs to win hearts and minds to stop the violence and build credibility.

<more>

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20911.htm
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islandmkl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 07:03 PM
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1. i would suggest reading this complete article...
it is refreshing and sobering to see mccain's world so succinctly described...
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 07:04 PM
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2. There are lots of Vietnam vets who have fallen into this trap
Of course, also many who learned the lessons and have not, but those who side with McCain are refighting the last war. Many feel that this is somehow the chance to win "their" war and reclaim our lost national honor, even though the two are totally disconnected and we never lost our national honor.

None of them have ever really thought it through. Ask any one of them: "So, let's say a foreign power is occupying the United States--let's even say they have the best of intentions. Would you ever stop fighting them? Why do you expect the Iraqis to behave any differently?"
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volstork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It's akin to people trying to
live out their failed dreams by forcing them on their children.
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Mopar151 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 09:15 PM
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5. Plus some older vets
and anybody who's been in the military since Vietnam - to say nothing of the numerous idiots who think this is friggin' roller derby and we need to "Kick ASS".
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hey! I was first, check out my blog post on that subject
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 10:39 PM
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6. KnR and I also recommend reading entire article PLUS comments
Regarding those comments, there are some which are freeperish and some which are thought provoking, here is my favorite comment (in it's entirety):

"Wholly Poope (that's 100%, folks)

Colin Powell helped cover up the Son My (Mai Lai) massacre. He's just another weasle. He advocates the US attacking nations to 'protect vital security interests' i.e. coveted resources, strategic location, drugs, sales of weapons, test and development (using countries and their People as test subjucts for the latest US developments of new weapons/tactics of mass destruction), etc.

The Vietnam Gravy Train would still be going on to this very day if not for the courageous Vietnamese Resistance that was willing to sustain horrible losses to rid their country of the US et. als. criminal, murderous, Phoenix Program, free-fire zone, cruel exploiting invaders who were destroying and poisoning their country....while their (US et. al.)war industry fat cats pocketed their bloody profits...as one drooling general said "...Vietnam will be a treasure trove of test and development information."
(Successful tests lead to coveted defense contracts...big money here, folks.)

McCain's daddy, the Lard High Admiral, ordered the the rescue force sent out to defend the USS Liberty which was enduring the cowardly attack by the Israelis, to abort and return to base, allowing the USS Liberty to endure three seperate waves of unprovoked Israeli attacks.
The USS Liberty was bombed, torpedoed, napalmed, strafed...lifeboats machine gunned by these Israeli cowards. The worst loss of life aboard a US vessel since WWII. Shame on YOU Adm. McCain

Quote: What McCain should have learned from his Vietnam experience, as Colin Powell did, is that the US needs to choose its fights carefully.

No.

What they should have learned is that the US needs to mind it's own business, to stop meddling with foreign nations, to end all covert/overt operations, subversions, saturating troubled nations with weapons, testing new weapons/tactics of mass destruction on the Peoples of foreign countries, economic subversions, sanctions, illegal attacks,invasions, and occupations ad nauseum...

Does anyone remember how Hitler learned that attacking and invading sovereign nations will come back to haunt you?
Ironhead"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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OakCliffDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. Kick
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'd bet McLame still believes in the Domino Theory.
Edited on Thu Oct-02-08 06:54 AM by formercia
Hey John, look at all the countries that fell to communism after we left Viet Nam.

Fucking idiot....
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