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Whither the Nation? -- Ralph Nader responds to The Nation

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joyautumn Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:56 PM
Original message
Whither the Nation? -- Ralph Nader responds to The Nation
Whither The Nation?
By RALPH NADER

The following letter is a response to "An Open Letter to Ralph Nader," which appeared in the February 16 issue of The Nation.

As I reread slowly your open letter, which kindly started and closed with your demand "Don't run," memories of past Nation magazine writing, going back to the days of Carey McWilliams and earlier, came to mind. I share them with you. Long ago the The Nation stood steadfastly for more voices and choices inside the electoral arenas which today are more dominated than ever by the two-party duopoly trending toward one-party districts:

"Don't run."

The Nation's pages embrace large areas of agreement with the undersigned on policy matters and political reforms, especially the abusive power of Big Business over elections, the government and the economy:

"Don't run."

...
http://www.counterpunch.org/nader02192004.html
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StopTheMorans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. go away Nader, I think it's time to go back to looking at yourself
in the mirror now, your ego can't take you being away long enough to write a letter you precious thing you!
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sweetcee Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. This makes me think
even less of Nader.

He got his panties in a twist over an article in the Nation and had to write that silly point by point defense?

This man doesn't 'get' it.

We might survive another 4 years of Bush!
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eyesroll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is Nader losing it?
This rebuttal doesn't even make sense.
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distortionmarshall Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. sheesh - the rebuttal makes perfect sense.....
..... and it points to a very live issue, though it's not _completely_ clear that nader understands the issue....

<sorry bout the length of this post, btw, good luck>

In a nutshell, the issue is practicality vs principle.

To get america outta the crapper, it is necessary to remove bush from office. anything inhibiting that goal ought itself be removed. This is practicality.

OTOH, principle is involved in a deep way. Convention democratic wisdom says that the republicans achieved the preidency thru a variety of duplicitous means: crony-ism, electioneering, and so on. If democrats in their efforts to regain the presidency use similar tactics, then, arguably, the country is no better off. This is principle.

The Nation's original letter to Nader dealt specifically with this issue, and in a head-on way. Their stance was, in essence, something like what we might expect from general patton: principles won't count for much if the next election is lost, because america itself might thereby be lost.

The Nation does indeed come down on the side of practicality, over principle.

Part of the reason this choice may have been made easier for them is another part of conventional democratic wisdom: nader is an egomaniac. Presumably a part of this idea is lingering bitterness over the 2000 election (results). I personally think this is unfair - that the 2000 election shouldn't have been that close in the first place, but whatever.

In any case, while the Nation does come down on the side of practicality, they do so after explicitly acknowledging the choice in this snippet:

"But when devotion to principle collides with electoral politics, hard truths must be faced. Ralph, this is the wrong year for you to run: 2004 is not 2000. George W. Bush has led us into an illegal pre-emptive war, and his defeat is critical."

Nader, in his response, comes down forcefully on the side of principle, in essence charging The (current) Nation with hypocrisy/betrayal based on its history.

THE DIFFERENCE: Nader nowhere betrays even an inkling that this choice, between principle and practicality, is key. And therefore, I suppose, nader's response provides fodder for those who are inclined to think of him as egomaniacal.

I happen to think that nader is very bright, and if he does have an ego problem, I suspect that it's not so bad as to completely blind him to reality. So I need another explanation of his rather one-sided response.

My guess is that he's not going to run.

I think he wanted to register his vote for the side of principle, and remind especially The Nation of the importance of principle. This would explain his jilted response. But I suspect he actually more or less agrees with The Nation on the claim that the trump issue is bush's removal (tho he might have a hard time actually saying this out loud :). And given that it's hard to see how one might reasonably think his candidacy as helpful on the goal of removing bush (tho he made a weak attempt at it), my conjecture is that he'll declare that he's not running within the next few days....

again - this is all pure speculation on my part....

wow - who woulda thunk that a 3 second thought required so many words to comunicate? rofl
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joyautumn Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Don't Walk
Thanks for actually thinking for three seconds before responding, unlike the others who have posted so far.

Read what Nader wrote more carefully, though. This portion in particular:

"Don't run."

The Nation's open letter does not go far enough in predicting where my votes would come from, beyond correctly inferring that there would be few liberal Democratic supporters. The out-of-power party always returns to the fold, while the in-power party sees its edges looking for alternatives. Much more than New Hampshire in 2000, where I received more Republican than Democratic votes, any candidacy would be directed toward Independents, Greens, third-party supporters, true progressives, and conservative and liberal Republicans, who are becoming furious with George W. Bush's policies, such as massive deficits, publicized corporate crimes, subsidies and pornography, civil liberties encroachments, sovereignty-suppressing trade agreements and outsourcing. And, of course, any candidacy would seek to do what we all must strive for-getting out more nonvoters who are now almost the majority of eligible voters:

"Don't run."

The Nation wants badly to defeat the selected President Bush but thinks there is only one pathway to doing so. This approach excludes a second front of voters against the regime, which could raise fresh subjects, motivating language and the vulnerabilities of corporate scandals and blocked reforms that the Democrats are too cautious, too indentured to their paymasters to launch-but are free to adopt if they see these succeed:

"Don't run."

As you can see, Nader is talking precisely about a practical strategy for winning the White House as an Independent. And he concludes his letter with, "Don't walk." You're supposed to complete that familiar saying in your mind -- "Run!" Meaning -- the Dems are doing such a bad job of going after Bush that he's about to stop walking, and start running, and so should we.
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distortionmarshall Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. i think nader's only paying lip service....
.... to the practicality side with those remarks.....

Those are precisely the remarks I was referring to with my "weak attempt" statement. I called it a weak attempt, for basically 2 reasons:

(a) No one really believes that a green candidate would actually be *helpful* in removing bush. even people who aren't actively angry at nader don't believe that.

(b) Even if a 1/2-way reasonable rationale were given that yielded the prediction that a green party candidacy would help remove bush, it would be merely a speculative, untried course of action. By contrast, many feel (with some reason), there is solid reason to believe that a green candidacy would actively help bush remain in office.

Nader talks about there being potentially many ways to unseat bush, and chides The Nation for focussing on only one of those ways. This is weak - that "one" way is in fact the only tried-and-true way - opposition unity.

If Nader were truly acknowledging the practicality side of the issue, he would have at least provided serious (ie empirical) reason to believe that the anti-bush cause would be furthered by his candidacy, rather than giving us a theoretical possibility.

mv $.02 at any rate.... :)


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joyautumn Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. not green
he's not running green. he's not going after the left at all.

keep your seat belt on.
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eyesroll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Oops
I just re-read Nader's rebuttal. Apparently, my computer at work was messing up the layout so I was losing parts of it.

It makes sense now. Never mind. :)
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. His campaign is a joke and an insult to all Americans who are
living with the consequences of his last run. I won't blame Ralph for not knowing the damage that his 2000 run inadvertantly did to progressivism. But if he runs this time, then I assume he wants a replay of the 2000 results.

You should have run as a Republican in the primary this year, Ralph...I would have donated to your campaign.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. Vote Nader! Vote Republican!
All of his arguments have merit. Unfortunately, he seems to be quite happy with President Bush in the White House, otherwise, he wouldn't run.

It's not your year, Ralph.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Ralph destroyed my nephew's life
and I won't let him and his pal Bush make a quadriplegic out of the other one.

GO AWAY RALPH, PREFERABLY IN A CORVAIR...
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radiclib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks to Ralph, I now know that "pornography" is an actual Bush policy
Edited on Thu Feb-19-04 09:19 PM by radiclib
Gee, I may have to rethink my opposition to Chimpy! ;-)
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
13. MY EMAIL to RALPH NADER, my hero
o: Info@naderexplore04.com
Subject: A Progressive Appeal
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 06:11:31 +0000
Dear Mr. Nader,

I have respected you since you wrote the book "Unsafe at Any Speed". God Bless You and keep you. May Buddha bring you long life. May the next Democratic President appoint you to an important post in government. May you be granted every HONOR due.

I love you, and ask you from a place of love to please, please, please not run for President this year. I am sorry if this message offends you, because I love you and I love this country.

I could not possibly stand another 4 years of Bush #43. If he wins, I swear, I will move to Canada! Please. Please. Help the Democrat get elected this time.

Sincerely,

TJ
A Progressive, Politically Active American
Chicago, IL


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yo-yo-ma Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. he's become a self-important windbag
I, too, have had respect for him in the past. But now . . . If he runs it is out of a deep cynicism that I can't share - the desire to make things even worse, a sort of Armageddon, hence, perhaps, his rumored acceptance of monies from repugs.

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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Rumored?
It's a fact that ol' Ralphie took GOP money.

Here's the site that tells the truth about Nader.

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm

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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. um...
That site doesn't say that Nader took GOP money.

Where is the link for that?
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Here
Here's the link where Asshole Ralph took GOP money

http://www.billyjack.com/nader/nader_bush_ad_money.html

As I said before, Nader crippled one of my nephews for life and I'll be damned if he does the same to my other nephew!

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Nadienne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I would be more worried about Sharpton...
From RightWatch.org (with an article from the Village Voice):

http://lists.democracygroups.org/pipermail/rightwatch/2004q1/000216.html

"Roger Stone, the longtime Republican dirty-tricks operative
who led the mob that shut down the Miami-Dade County recount
and helped make George W. Bush president in 2000, is
financing, staffing, and orchestrating the presidential
campaign of Reverend Al Sharpton."
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