Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Must Read---Maureen nails it!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-04 10:57 AM
Original message
Must Read---Maureen nails it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent article; I particularly liked the following snippet:
"When you think about it, how on earth do conservatives come to grips with the fact that the GOP has become the party of rampant interventionism, nanny state-itis and drunken sailor spending? How do they account for the fact that the Bush administration is spending a billion dollars a week on an unnecessary war that was, once again, never officially declared? In moments of honest reflection, do they realize that between WMD hype, Halliburton revelations, Plamegate, Sept. 11 commission stonewalling, and pleas for renewal of the Patriot Act, this White House's policies not only defy traditional conservative principles, but make that blue dress look like small potatoes?"

Well no shit...I'd say that the mess GW has gotten us into far outweighs a blowjob...as much as I was disgusted and disappointed by that incident, it pales in comparison to this loser's lies and the tragic results of those lies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
carpediem Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks! for posting this. I am going to send it to all my
Republican/Conservative family members. I think the logic and arguments of the article may actually help to open their eyes. They may never be able to bring themselves to vote for a Democrat, but maybe they will not pull the lever for President at all in November.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-04 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Aaaack. When you said "Maureen" I thought "Dowd"
and went "MoDo not HoDo anymore? No Way!!"

Love Ms. Farrell, though. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-04 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good article. Be sure to check out her source from The Nation.
Michael Lind was a middle of the road liberal, who went over to the neocons after they fled the excesses of left liberals in the 60's. He was something like a college freshman who thinks he's going out to a keg party and ends up with guys who are bombing churches and putting up burning crosses on some folks'lawns. And he is quite ticked off. His ideas in the "Radical Center" co-written with Ted Halstead is interesting reading. But his "Up From Conservatism" is compelling reading. I recommend it.

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040223&s=lind



"But too much can be made of the mendacity of the neocons. The influence of Leo Strauss's teachings about the need for the "philosophers" to conceal the truth from the masses can be exaggerated. The conviction on the part of neocons of their own rectitude may be sufficient, in their minds, to justify deception of the public in matters like Iraq's nonexistent threat to the United States. After all, they are waging World War IV against--well, against whomever--a revived Russia this year, China the next, and the next year a vague "Islamist" threat that somehow contains anti-Islamist Baathists and secular Palestinians along with Osama bin Laden. In their own minds, the neocons are Churchillian figures, a heroic minority who, as they battle a generic "totalitarianism" of which radical Islam is the latest manifestation, are handicapped by cowardly establishment "appeasers" and purveyors of a decadent "adversary culture" among the "new class" in the academy and the media. I don't doubt that many leading neocons sincerely wanted to believe that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, that the Iraqi masses would embrace Ahmad Chalabi as their de Gaulle, that there would be a democratic domino effect in the Middle East, bringing pro-Israel and pro-American secularists to power. Now that they have been proven wrong, at enormous cost in American and Iraqi life, they are disoriented. Instead of acknowledging and taking responsibility for their catastrophic failure, they are desperately trying to avoid blame.

Unfortunately for them, a political ideology can fail in the real world only so many times before being completely discredited. For at least two decades, in foreign policy the neocons have been wrong about everything. When the Soviet Union was on the verge of collapse, the hawks of Team B and the Committee on the Present Danger declared that it was on the verge of world domination. In the 1990s they exaggerated the power and threat of China, once again putting ideology ahead of the sober analysis of career military and intelligence experts. The neocons were so obsessed with Saddam Hussein and Yasir Arafat that they missed the growing threat of Al Qaeda. After 9/11 they pushed the irrelevant panaceas of preventive war and missile defense as solutions to the problems of hijackers and suicide bombers.

They said Saddam had WMDs. He didn't. They said he was in league with Osama bin Laden. He wasn't. They predicted that no major postwar insurgency in Iraq would occur. It did. They said there would be a wave of pro-Americanism in the Middle East and the world if the United States acted boldly and unilaterally. Instead, there was a regional and global wave of anti-Americanism.

David Brooks and his colleagues in the neocon press are half right. There is no neocon network of scheming masterminds--only a network of scheming blunderers. As a result of their own amateurism and incompetence, the neoconservatives have humiliated themselves. If they now claim that they never existed--well, you can hardly blame them, can you?"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. great scholarly indictment of the neocons
Edited on Tue Feb-10-04 10:56 PM by Snazzy
Had my head spinning in some parts--perhaps too much. The question that lingers with me is that either people are recruited (join up, raise a flag, wear a pin, whatever) and indoctrinated into these various ideologies, or it is a convenient way of visualizing political thought--as say a taxonomy. The concepts versus the person.

If it is the former that is some part of the thesis, I think we give these wannabe-cold warriors way too much credit. The later, well, then come out and say that's what you are doing, grouping these (mostly) guys into one winger nutjob club. {On reflection, I think the author does that at the end}.

I also think I'm on somewhat of a deep tangent that may be headed nowhere here. There is a playbook obviously, the PNAC. And people did clearly sign off on that. And it easier to say neocon than it is to say scumbag who believes (and executes) x y and z.

Maybe we should just try to turn around the usual, make a "card carrying neocon" soundbite. We have and are. But on the other hand, I wonder, much like attributing policy and action to the shrub--who clearly has little to do with it: Are the noecons really some intellectual policy movement that we trace to the cold war and team b or just a bunch of assholes, failed cold warriors looking for an excuse to keep up the military spending and fear so they and ilk can profit? Do we aggrandize them with movement status?

Or so goes my rambling--it is a good article. You quote the end, which is the strongest part. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC