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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 05:54 AM
Original message
Salon: Oprah's Ugly Secret
By continuing to hawk "The Secret," a mishmash of offensive self-help cliches, Oprah Winfrey is squandering her goodwill and influence, and preaching to the world that mammon is queen.

A well-deserved, IMHO, smackdown of The Secret and the cult of simple, shallow gratification -- with a few tie-ins to the political climate that brought us the current administration.

"Secret"-style belief is a perfect product. Like Coca-Cola, it goes down easy and makes the consumer thirsty for more. It's unthreateningly simple, and a lot more facile, sentimental and, perhaps paradoxically, intractable than the old-fashioned kind of belief. Like Amway, it enlists its consumers as unofficial salespeople, and the people who constitute its market feel like they're part of a fold. It's indistinguishable from, and inextricably bound up in, the Oprah idea of self-esteem, the kind of confidence you get not from testing yourself, but from "believing" in yourself. This modern idea of faith isn't arrived at the old-fashioned way, by asking questions, but by getting answers. Instead of inquiry we have born-again epiphanies and cheesy self-help books -- we have excuses for not engaging in inquiry at all. Let other people schlep down the road to Damascus; we'll have Amazon send Damascus to us. That "Secret"-style faith, whether it's in God, or in one's own preordained destiny to be an "American Idol," which takes all of a moment to achieve, is perhaps its most important selling point. Here's "The Secret" on arriving at faith: "Ask once, believe you have received, and all you have to do to receive is feel good." The kind of faith that couldn't be reached by shortcut, the confidence of the great doubters and worriers, of Moses and Abraham Lincoln and Jesus Christ, has been replaced by the insta-certainty and inflated "self-esteem" of "The Secret's" believers.

Books like "The Secret" have created, and are feeding, an enormously diverse market of disciples, and they're thriving in every corner of the culture, in megachurches and movies, politics and pop music, in sports arenas and state boards of education. Oprah has far more in common with George Bush than either would like to admit, and so do the psychics of Marin County, Calif., and the creationists of Kansas. The believers come from all walks of life, but they work the same way -- mostly by bastardizing and warping source materials, from the Bible to the Bhagavad Gita, to make them fit their worldview. On Page 23 of "The Secret" you'll find this revealing doozy: "Meditation quiets the mind, helps you control your thoughts." Of course, the goal of meditation is precisely the opposite -- it is to be conscious, to observe your thoughts honestly and clearly. But that's the last thing the believers want to encourage. The authors of "The Secret" sell "control" in the form of "empowerment" and "quiet" in the form of belief, not consciousness.

The promises of Oprah culture can seem irresistible, and its hallmarks are becoming ubiquitous. Believers may be separated into tribes according to what they believe, but they do it in pretty much the same way, relying on a "Secret"-style conception of "intuition" --- which seems to amount to the sneaking suspicion that they're always right -- to arrive at their tenets. Instead of the world as it is, constantly changing and full of contradiction, they see a fixed and fantastical place, where good things come to those who believe, whether it's belief in a diet, a God, or a Habit of Successful People. These believers may believe in the healing power of homeopathy, or Scripture or organizational skills -- in intelligent design, astrology or privatization. They all trust that their devotion will be rewarded with money and boyfriends and job promotions, with hockey championships and apartments. And most of all they believe -- they really, really believe -- in themselves.

For these believers, self-knowledge is much less important than self-"love." But the question they never seem to ask themselves is: If you wouldn't tell another person you loved her before you got to know her, why would you do that to yourself? Skipping the getting-to-know-you part has given us what we deserve: the Oprah culture. It's a culture where superstition is "spirituality," illiteracy is "authenticity," and schoolmarm moralism is "character." It's a culture where people apologize by saying, "I'm sorry you took offense at what I said," and forgive by saying, "I'm not angry at you anymore, I'm grateful to you for teaching me not to trust shitheads like you." And that's the part that should bother us most: the diminishing, even implicit mocking, of genuine goodness, and of authentic spiritual concerns and practices. Engagement, curiosity and active awe are in short supply these days, and it's sickening to see them devalued and misrepresented.


More here (it's long).

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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for posting this
very interesting.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. it seems a bit tedious...so is the point...
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 06:13 AM by hlthe2b
merely, "The Secret" is "dumb, simplistic, sappy," (pick your adjective) and thus Oprah is "evil, maniacal, exploitive, shallow. stupid" (pick your adjective)?

Seems they could have made this point in a pithy sentence or paragraph at most? :shrug:



(and my own disclaimer: I have no opinion of THE SECRET or similar new age-type philosophies... as far as I'm concerned if it helps some people and doesn't hurt, all the better to me. I will say I was surprised to see a DVD of the program selling for $34.95 at B&N, after being available for free download for a very long time on the "tubes..."--perhaps the result of Oprah's attention?)
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I think it points out the common dynamic of the ethos..
the trans-discipline nature of it, rather well.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Re: "think it points out the common dynamic of the ethos..."
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 06:32 AM by hlthe2b
"The Secret," you mean, rather than the Salon article? :shrug:

I was saying the article was tedious. It (the article) seems to take an awful lot of print space to make a snarky point.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Okay, then, here's the one sentence version: "If you're happy, you're not suffering enough"
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 10:11 AM by Bucky
I don't particularly care for the new agey hokum either, but I have a bigger problem with people who think they need to piss on a parade just because it's not as rigorous as Jesus, Moses, or Abraham Lincoln.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
44. You lost me, Bucky... Is that what you thought I was doing?
i.e., " that you have a bigger problem with people who think they need to piss on a parade just because....." :shrug:

I was criticizing the article... As far as "The Secret", if it helps some, great by me...
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. 'the secret' is like a libertarian version of the celestine prophesies n/t
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. I've been comparing it to the Celestine Prophesy too,
in the way that I have known several devotees to both as intent on proselytizing as Christian fundies are. And the attitude of "just try it and you'll understand" is as annoying to me as people praying for me to be "saved."
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. visualize what you want" is a good but "blame the victim" is evil IMO - Oprah needs to
review her book choices a little more carefully.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I don't know much about "The Secret" but I see your point...
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medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
7. thanks....explains why I haven't been able to watch her this past year
as she's become extremely preachy and arrogant imo
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. Oh God not another one.
Just think good thoughts and your world will be good. Just think positively and your life will be positive. Just surround yourself with rich shallow people and your life will be rich and shallow.

These books have been selling lies for years. Now, Oprah jumps on the band wagon. I wonder what awful thoughts Oprah was thinking that got her raped as a child and rejected by her mother. She must have been putting out some very negative vibes to have been abused so young in her life.

All these books are good for is to allow criminals the chance to blame their victims. I wonder what awful, negative thoughts our country has been putting out to get stuck with idiots who believe this crap.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Good points.
I really fear for the future of this country when I read stuff like this.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. point is
She could have easily wallowed in negativity, couldn't she? She probably got where she is by making a decision--and a great decision--I can either be a victim and let these experiences ruin my life, or I can not allow those people to control my thoughts and my life. She chose the latter, and that is why she likes The Secret.
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magnolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-07-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
69. This statement you made:
"All these books are good for is to allow criminals the chance to blame their victims."....simply indicates your lack of knowledge on the subject. The law of attraction states that there are NO VICTIMS. The injured party attracted the criminal. The criminal attracted prison. The fact is that blame has become a much bigger epidemic in our country than new age thinking. Any little problem anyone has they find someone or something to blame. No one wants to take responsibility for anything. Each of us is only responsible for what comes into our lives. If my house were broken into I would take responsibility for it and look inside myself. I would also call the police.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Please tell that to the victims in Darfur. eom
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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Tell that to child rape victims ...
when they've been raped by their Mom's new boyfriend or a stepfather or a Priest ... try selling that in an ER and when they bring traumatized rape victims in ... the Nancy Grace of the emergency room ... LOL! ... you'd be immediately arrested for harassment of a victim of a violent crime ...

Do you think OPRAH believes it is her fault that her UNCLE raped her? ... I doubt it ...

Oprah has really found a desperate bunch of needy sheep to sell this one too ... little surprise here ...

"There's a sucker born every minute" PT Barnum ...
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. snake oil, thy name is Oprah . . . n/t
.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. i don't know
i don't watch talk shows. but a friend, a woman whose 15-year-old grandson was murdered, insists that the movie "the Secret" made her feel so much better. i couldn't really watch it and have not read the book.

anything that works. who am i to judge my friend on the basis that she is experiencing this peace on what i have deemed to be a shallow level?

and my daughter was murdered, and i underwent a spiritual crisis. my counselor had me read a book by richard bach. i went to open circles online, watched john edwards nightly, learned to meditate and opened all my senses for any hint that she was indeed a spirit accompanying me, loving me still. i read sylvia brown, edward anthony, and others. i compiled what i call "the Bekah Church of Wonder catalogue of unexplained phenomena and incredible small world stories," and five years after her death, the catalogue still grows.

i wrote a book, and read many books. i already knew that religion was not for me; that i do not subscribe to the monotheistic dogmatic gawd that is so popular. i sought faith, bekah, my own self. a way to live as opposed to existing for as long as i would still be on this planet after my daughter would not. i like to share my beliefs and my faith. i insist that they are as valid as any other - but i do not proselytize and consider it disrespectful when someone thinks they can advise me about what is what in an area that is beyond our senses.

i guess i'm trying to say that the judgmental tone of the paragraphs above is offensive to me. if people believe their lives are enriched by "the Secret," who am i to naysay them? who is the person writing this diatribe, and why is she so pissed?

about ten years ago for a minute i decided that deepak chopra would be my spiritual guide. my daughter on our last christmas together gave me a deepak chopra desk calendar, and after the first burst of post mortem prolific writing began to trickle down, i used it for stichomancy when i sat down to write. the experience convinced me that deepak chopra's spirituality is banal, sometimes insensible, unrealistic (certainly when you are grappling with questions concerning the fate of your and your daughter's souls, even whether these exist...as i wrote in one of many poems addressed to my daughter, "Bekah do you think?").

on the other hand,from time to time he would touch on a topic which would set me in a certain direction as i wrote, and so he did help me to grow and to travel through that hell...and, i believe that it has been proven clinically that positive thinking does effect positive physical as well as emotional/mental changes. i practice visualization, and my affirmations are painted on coasters and stuck to the wall in the corner of my bedroom under six others that spell out W O N D E R.

these are them: Live. Love. No Fear. Laugh. Be. Do. Appreciate. Peace. See. Feel. Faith. Epiphany. Irony.Respect. amen

sometimes i think the single most important and least subjective belief gained from the months and years in that special hell is the acknowledgment that, when it comes to spiritual beliefs, we all gotta choose our own. there is not one answer for each person. i think i was born thinking and that i will continue thinking probably even beyond the moment i breath my last, but not everybody is so thoughtful; it doesn't mean they are bad, or shallow.

like i said i don't do talk shows. but i did think that oprah was very widely loved. i tend to believe that she teaches and uplifts her viewers. my friend annita is anything but superficial and she is not illiterate. maybe it's all just a matter of timing.

whatever. now i'm late for work eek
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Hi Barbtries
I am so sorry for your loss.

Thank you for speaking from the heart. I have probably watched one Oprah in the last year. It was about what the sounds that babies say mean (I have a new grandchild).

As a parent of three daughters, let me just say that I cannot comprehend what you must have gone through when you lost your daughter. I am sure that you cherish the memories of her life, and that her spirit is still alive through those.

I agree that when in crisis everyone seeks a different path. I appreciate your sharing your experiences.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-14-07 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
84. hi itsjustme
thank you for your thoughts. and i'm sorry it took me this long to get back. :)
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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. Copyed this article to Oprah.com ..
If you go to their website there are contact email addy to use ... I used one and suggested they take a moment out of HER time and READ THIS TO HER ... NOW! ...

I was on the phone with someone drueling over this not long ago and these people who get hooked in are desperate, needy, and completely taken with The Secret ... they believe it's "their big chance" ... when common sense and hard work seemed to be too much trouble ... they've decided to "DREAM" themselves a new life ... what's going to happen to all of these followers when they wake up from this dream to find out there's no secret ...
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. and years passed them by. That's a sad delusional existence. nt
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. The secret
From what I understand it is pretty simple. Given the same event or set of circumstances, two people can react to the event entirely differently. One can crawl in a hole and mope, and the other can try to learn from the experience and move forward with a positive attitude.

Now, who would you rather hang out with? Seriously. The law of attraction is just a simple way of saying that people are attracted to positive people, and avoid negative people. All this feeds on itself and then the positive person actually has more to be positive about, and the negative person is still in the hole. It is simple, and it is not intellectual. It is a law in the sense that we see this in our own lives all the time.

For some reason, people here don't seem to get it. The Secret isn't about blame. It is all about choices and control over attitude. And it is how that attitude reflects off others.

Why this is controversial is beyond me. It is actual common sense.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I guess you find solace in simplicity then, since you've stopped thinking
for yourself, I really don't have anything to comment regarding your posting...except, I'd rather hang out with someone that can independently think for themselves any day than some sheep or zombie. The whole Secret is based on, "Ignorance is Bliss."
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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Reality is very harsh ... sometimes hard to face ...
And when some have simply made very bad choices and find themselves at a point in life where, for one reason or another, they believe they've run out of choices ... maybe they're at an age where nothing for them is new anymore and there's no way out of the load they are carrying ... so they want to believe they can wish themselves a new experience ... to escape the load for a time ... well, it will be there when they get back ... IT always is ...

One friend has a board mounted on the wall in her little rental home that she is using to "visualize" her way out of her situation ... she cut out beautiful pictures of an expensive home, with a built in pool, and a business on a vastly expensive property that will one day belong to her? ... when the sad fact is she's had four kids by four different men and she's on her own ... I hope "The Secret" gives her some kind of comfort, because reality for her has become something she doesn't want to look at and she's simply using this "Secret" for an escape ... to be nearly 50 years old with two more little ones to raise alone is a tough road ... ignorance may be bliss for a little while ... not forever ...

The secret is to make better choices ... there's no magic carpet, no knight in shining armor ...
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. I agree Veronica, sad story about your friend. I find it sad that people
take advantage of vulnerable people, that's more the case than the exception, the "secret" isn't any different. It's very sad that people continue to profit from the weak.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Wow- your lack of understanding about "The Secret" is astounding
but go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about. enjoy! :hi:
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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Thanks for your permission ..
Validation by "true followers", disciples, and sheep are precisely what I come here for ... ROTFLMAO ... that'll be $29.95 ... ;-)
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. "Permission"
It is all about choice, isn't it?

One can choose to mock others, for example. Or one can be uplifting.

Choice, choice, choice. Oh, and free will too. We all have it.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. So, when your fate is being decided by some shareholders on
rolling the dice about who will be laid off and who will stay, that's somehow related to your choice? Enron was those people's choice? The Holocaust was somehow the choice of Jews, homosexuals, and scientist who's homes were invaded and lives ripped apart, because of....choice, they somehow choose that evil to come into their lives? The children who are killed and raped, choose that somehow, right? What a great 'secret.' The person born in Darfar by the wrong mother of the wrong religious affiliation had a....CHOICE! YES, they choose the color of their skin, the location of their birth, their birth mother's womb, right? No one's mocking you, we're pointing out the flaws in this asinine logic pounded into the little minds of people who continue to believe the biggest lie of all, religion. sigh
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Since you mentioned the Holocaust
Check out Viktor Frankl ("Man's Search for Meaning'), a jewish psychiatrist who survived the camps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl

He once stated that "The last true freedom of a human being is to choose your attitude, no matter what the circumstances are..."

This strikes me as similar to what's being put forth in The Secret. The level of responsibility that Frankl was speaking of is very high in deed - AND it sometimes pisses people off to confront it. It requires an alteration to our typical perceptions of who we are as humans, as Frankl himself demonstrated. Read "Man's Search for Meaning" and see if it doesn't challenge your thinking. Frankl saw people loose their will to live and die very quickly after they lost it.

Is it possible for people to be happy at all? Is it just a fleeting experience, because, surely, you too have known it as some point?
At a low level of consciousness, happiness may simply be pleasure or fulfillment of wish for some material gratification (food or stuff). From this perspective, one may appear as a "sheep..." fat, stupid and happy, as they say. At a higher level of consciousness (compassion) one truly sees the suffering of others and seeks to alleviate it. Food, if they are hungry, clothing the naked, etc. (beatitudes). But also attuning to those who ready for a glimpse into the greater reality so they can begin to take responsibility for their own life - give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish, he will feed himself for a lifetime kind of thing. Dig?
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. I would never be arrogant to even relate to someone who survived
the indignities of the Holocaust. I will however say, this man's life lesson's is far more valid and prolific than some marketed idea called "the Secret." Two very different realities and depth. "The Secret" is marketed trash, this man's experience was real and life altering. My bringing up the Holocaust was because "The Secret" states that we attract what we don't want and do want, that's flawed, it's like saying we attract a tornado. Life is indiscriminate all the time, it has very little to do with laws of attraction. They are selling you something and you are paying money for it, that's not a secret, it's been around for centuries. Sorry, I'm not buying it, it's too main stream to be anything of substance in my experiences with these 'trends.'
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. both truths
Of course life is indiscriminate. It is also discriminate. As individuals we cannot alter something like the Holocaust.

However, we can alter our response to the event.

And, that can be life changing, not only for ourselves, but for others.

Frankl did not succomb to negativity, despite the horrific experience. That is the lesson. Does The Secret sugar coat this a little? Of course. Is it meant to make money? Of course. Is it meant to be commercial? Of course. Try taking a poll on who has heard of Frankl and who has heard of The Secret. So, which has the mostimpact?

So what?? The lesson is valid, with the sugar coating, and even with the money motivation. Hey, it is not perfect. (And money is not inherently evil.)

But the lesson is valid. And, it is uplifting. One doesn't have to like it. One doesn't have to read it. One doesn't have to watch it. Listen to bad rap. It's okay. It is all choice. Free will.
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
63. Are you open minded?
I didn't/haven't spent any money on "The Secret" at all. I watched someone else's copy of it.
You seemed to have drawn generalized conclusions about life that I'm not willing to draw, based on my own experience. You opt to call this stuff "trash," while I'd have to say "don't knock it unless you've tried it." I guess you think it would be a waste of time.
Other people say they have gotten benefit from it.
Do you think people shouldn't take placebos because they can't possibly help? You'd be right - placebos don't help because it's all in the mind. Trick the mind into thinking it is getting benefit and it alters "reality." From your line of reasoning, people who experience "spontaneous remission" after taking a course of placebos are deluded and will eventually wake up to reality and suffer their illness again. The person who has gotten over their illness probably could give shit less about how it happened or what anyone elses opinion of placebos is, they're just glad that the pain is gone!
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. so, did you see,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
"It's a Beautiful Life"?

I didn't think so.

Enron is really, really bad. But if you really want to see "bad" see the History Channel on "The Plague".

It is not religion. It is attitude.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. So did you ask a stupid question and answer it by yourself? I think so. nt
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Like I said
I don't think so.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. I wasn't responding to you
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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
61. This is an open forum ...
Post here, post there ... this is an open forum and there's no secret ... uh oh, did I just create this moment? ... is that the secret? ... LOL ...

Do molestation victims choose that moment? ... Do rape victims choose that moment? ... Oh, it was all THEIR fault ... I get it ... they dreamt up their attacker and so he broke into their home and abused them ... got it now ... wow ... how enlightening ... he married their mother or gained access to them as a coach or priest at a Catholic School because they caused it to happen ... powerful mind there ...

Oprah's Uncle raped her as a kid because she somehow created that experience? ...

They should have all dreamt up a trip to Disneyland instead ...

Free at last, free at last, thank the Lord almighty ... we're all free at last ...

That will be $29.95 ... ;-)
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. sheep or zombie
Would be the one crawling in the hole.
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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Or the ones singing in unison ...
"Shall we gather at the river ... the beautiful, beautiful river" ... LOL ...
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Is that in The Secret?
I think not!!

Sure doesn't sound like Oprah either. I think you are confused.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. :) that made me laugh! nt
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
36. The person wasn't using the tools taught in The Secret
The Secret teaches you to go out and get the things you want "not "DREAM" themselves a new life."

There has to be action behind the dream. People seem to be missing that somehow but it is a big part of the teachings.

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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
64. They become drug addicts. That's what happened to my brother -a big beleiver in this BS
I think this message is pure EVIL.

1) Because if you think this way you can't help but blame victims.
2) Because it discourages hard work and planning and encourages over-optimism - which is very dangerous.

I've met a number of people who follow this way of thinking and none of them were happy. They all were very judgmental and self-righteous though.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. There are two types of self help -- one from the "Left" and one from the "Right"
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 11:10 AM by beachmom
They're both extreme, and keep people stuck:

The "Left" (more popular in the '60s and '70s): NOTHING is your fault. You were abused as a child, and your parents did a lousy job, society is against you, etc. So the reason why your life is a mess RIGHT NOW is because of your childhood and there's NOTHING you can do about it. Here's one example: the reason George W. Bush is so callous and uncaring about the poor in this country was because his mother was callous and uncaring to him. Well, maybe Barbara wasn't the best of mothers, but a person of higher character and grit could have overcome those obstacles. W chose not to. BUT, according to the above philosphy, it's not W's fault he doesn't care, because his childhood was what it was and there NOTHING he can do about it. It's about not taking responsibility for your life but blaming others even for events 40 years ago.

The "Right" (started gaining popularity in the '80s -- although it actually started in the Great Depression, but really hit its peak with Dr. Phil): You can do ANTHING you want, and if you don't it's YOUR FAULT for not thinking positively enough. Got abused as a child? Tough luck -- GET OVER IT!! In a dead end job? Well, that's YOUR FAULT for not visualizing prosperity! Made some mistakes in your life? WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? Only judgmentalism on your fat ass. I suppose a good example of this would be W's victims -- the people stuck in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!!??? You KNEW there was a Cat 5 hurricane coming and you didn't leave, so it's YOUR FAULT. Don't have a house? Well, that's because you FAILED to think prosperously.


Hmmm -- maybe it isn't left and right anymore. Seems like the Right has co-opted BOTH philosophies to use as an excuse for being so callous and to blame the victims for their callous philosophies.



I'm at the point where I'm ready to take all my self help books (save one -- M. Scott Peck's "The Road Less Traveled"; okay, and my Dale Carnegie books) and give them away. I think they prevent people from thinking for themselves and either get stuck in the victim rut or the "I can do anything if I put my mind to it" rut.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Haven't read it but
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 01:50 PM by itsjustme
I rather like the touchy feely stuff. Our culture is absolutely rife with negativity, from violent movies to violent parents. My daughter teaches at risk kids, and she is having an uphill battle getting them to think positively. Kids that are negative tear each other down, mock each other, and try to belittle the next person. What's so wrong with thinking so positively about yourself that you want to help the person next to you feel better?

If you don't like The Secret, don't read it. If you don't like Oprah, don't watch it.

Positive thinking is nothing new.

Cole Porter:

(You've gotta accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between)

You've got to spread joy (up to the maximum)
Bring gloom (down) down to the minimum
Otherwise (otherwise) pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene

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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
65. That's the thing about "The Secret" it's right - to a point.
But - not to the extent they try to sell it.

Of course if I think so negatively, I may get discouraged and give up. However, if I think too positively, I might get complacent and ignore problems.

If I am too negative, no one will want to be around me. However, if when someone tells me their wife was just diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and I tell them to "look on the bright side" - that's cruel and insensitive.

It's all about balance - and there is no balance with this message.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. Here's my secret: there's no damn secret in life, it just IS. By the way,
I have these loony friend who believes that giving something up for Lent will save her as well. She had me watch the video, "The Secret," and I was thinking this is just creepy, another "Jesus Camp," of info-religiocommericals. The laws of attraction, how about the laws of the nucleus? The funny thing is, why doesn't anyone stop to think, if they really had the secret, why would they have to SELL it to you to make a profit? Wouldn't you want to share that knowledge freely to make a better world where your secret could thrive? Ah...come on....to get the answer, send me $29.99. Lost souls make for excellent fools.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Yup! no secret-just 'ratings #'s' and Oprah is Queen of TV Ratings
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well, "The Secret" works for some people
I wonder how many of you dissing it have even read the book or watched the DVD?

Anyway, if you don't like it, fine. But there are some people out there for whom it works.

And no amount of your trashing the concepts will change our minds.

:hi:
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. Somehow I get the feeling the people who believe "the Secret," are the same
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 07:52 PM by Catfight
ones that thought duct tape and plastic would save them from the terrorist and chemical warfar, but died from suffocation in their own stupidity. Buy the tuna, buy the f'king TUNA!

(this is brought to you by the duct tape, plastic and tuna companies...thanks for surge in profits!)
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. You are just too funny
Thanks for spreading your positive energy out to the world.

We all need more open-minded and supportive people like you. People who don't judge others just because they might have a different outlook on life.

Thanks! :hi:
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. Duct tape
Remarkable stuff. I've had the same roll of duct tape for about twelve years. It's getting pretty sloppy and probably should have an expiration date.

I doubt if I have had more than two servings of tuna in the last ten years, and none in my cupboard.

Sorry to deflate the stereotype.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
74. That's right!
"And no amount of your trashing the concepts will change our minds."

Funny how if someone doesn't like something they think no one else could possibly get any benefit out of it. The Secret doesn't only have to be about material stuff..you can freakin' image up and attract your good health, too.

:hi:



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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. How about a pair of nice breasts and a plump rump while you're dreaming ...
No more age spots, lose those saggin' thighs, gray hair, and no more crows feet ... YEAH ... wow ... I'm into this ... WHOPEEE! ...

What do you fools smoke? ... ROTFLMAO!! ....

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. How about a
fucking strawman?
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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. They needed The SECRET and they'd all still be alive ...
March 7, 2007 | As thousands of burned-out soldiers prepare to return to Iraq to fill President Bush's unwelcome call for at least 20,000 more troops, I can't help wondering what the women among those troops will have to face. And I don't mean only the hardships of war, the killing of civilians, the bombs and mortars, the heat and sleeplessness and fear.

I mean from their own comrades -- the men.

I have talked to more than 20 female veterans of the Iraq war in the past few months, interviewing them for up to 10 hours each for a book I am writing on the topic, and every one of them said the danger of rape by other soldiers is so widely recognized in Iraq that their officers routinely told them not to go to the latrines or showers without another woman for protection.

The female soldiers who were at Camp Arifjan in Kuwait, for example, where U.S. troops go to demobilize, told me they were warned not to go out at night alone.

"They call Camp Arifjan 'generator city' because it's so loud with generators that even if a woman screams she can't be heard," said Abbie Pickett, 24, a specialist with the 229th Combat Support Engineering Company who spent 15 months in Iraq from 2004-05. Yet, she points out, this is a base, where soldiers are supposed to be safe.

Spc. Mickiela Montoya, 21, who was in Iraq with the National Guard in 2005, took to carrying a knife with her at all times. "The knife wasn't for the Iraqis," she told me. "It was for the guys on my own side."

Comprehensive statistics on the sexual assault of female soldiers in Iraq have not been collected, but early numbers revealed a problem so bad that former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld ordered a task force in 2004 to investigate. As a result, the Defense Department put up a Web site in 2005 designed to clarify that sexual assault is illegal and to help women report it. It also initiated required classes on sexual assault and harassment. The military's definition of sexual assault includes "rape; nonconsensual sodomy; unwanted inappropriate sexual contact or fondling; or attempts to commit these acts."

Unfortunately, with a greater number of women serving in Iraq than ever before, these measures are not keeping women safe. When you add in the high numbers of war-wrecked soldiers being redeployed, and the fact that the military is waiving criminal and violent records for more than one in 10 new Army recruits, the picture for women looks bleak indeed.

Last year, Col. Janis Karpinski caused a stir by publicly reporting that in 2003, three female soldiers had died of dehydration in Iraq, which can get up to 126 degrees in the summer, because they refused to drink liquids late in the day. They were afraid of being raped by male soldiers if they walked to the latrines after dark. The Army has called her charges unsubstantiated, but Karpinski told me she sticks by them. (Karpinski has been a figure of controversy in the military ever since she was demoted from brigadier general for her role as commander of Abu Ghraib. As the highest-ranking official to lose her job over the torture scandal, she claims she was scapegoated, and has become an outspoken critic of the military's treatment of women. In turn, the Army has accused her of sour grapes.)

"I sat right there when the doctor briefing that information said these women had died in their cots," Karpinski told me. "I also heard the deputy commander tell him not to say anything about it because that would bring attention to the problem." The latrines were far away and unlit, she explained, and male soldiers were jumping women who went to them at night, dragging them into the Port-a-Johns, and raping or abusing them. "In that heat, if you don't hydrate for as many hours as you've been out on duty, day after day, you can die." She said the deaths were reported as non-hostile fatalities, with no further explanation.

Not everyone realizes how different the Iraq war is for women than any other American war in history. More than 160,500 American female soldiers have served in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East since the war began in 2003, which means one in seven soldiers is a woman. Women now make up 15 percent of active duty forces, four times more than in the 1991 Gulf War. At least 450 women have been wounded in Iraq, and 71 have died -- more female casualties and deaths than in the Korean, Vietnam and first Gulf Wars combined. And women are fighting in combat.

Officially, the Pentagon prohibits women from serving in ground combat units such as the infantry, citing their lack of upper-body strength and a reluctance to put girls and mothers in harm's way. But mention this ban to any female soldier in Iraq and she will scoff.

"Of course we were in combat!" said Laura Naylor, 25, who served with the Army Combat Military Police in Baghdad from 2003-04. "We were interchangeable with the infantry. They came to our police stations and helped pull security, and we helped them search houses and search people. That's how it is in Iraq."

Women are fighting in ground combat because there is no choice. This is a war with no front lines or safe zones, no hiding from in-flying mortars, car and roadside bombs, and not enough soldiers. As a result, women are coming home with missing limbs, mutilating wounds and severe trauma, just like the men.

All the women I interviewed held dangerous jobs in Iraq. They drove trucks along bomb-ridden roads, acted as gunners atop tanks and unarmored vehicles, raided houses, guarded prisoners, rescued the wounded in the midst of battle, and searched Iraqis at checkpoints. Some watched their best friends die, some were wounded, all saw the death and mutilation of Iraqi children and citizens.

Yet, despite the equal risks women are taking, they are still being treated as inferior soldiers and sex toys by many of their male colleagues. As Pickett told me, "It's like sending three women to live in a frat house."

Next page: "There are only three kinds of female the men let you be in the military: A bitch, a ho, or a dyke"


They should have bought THE SECRET for all those soldiers instead of THE PORN they had ... it's the WOMEN's fauth they were raped, molested, harassed, and died ... they simply didn't BELIEVE ... those stupid women soldiers had it coming? ... YOU tell 'em OPRAH ...

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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. Maybe they should have used positive thinking and visualized democracy in Iraq
Oh wait, they did. Nevermind....
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #22
53. Yep they remain totally positive about Iraq
Condi keeps her job by travelling over to Iraq every nine months or so and blathering about how our message is one of HOPE.

And that no matter what is happening in the day to day, as long as we all think positive eventually Iraq will be a fabulous democracy.

Nowif Osama would just let us catch his sorry ass in Baghdad soon, we could declare ourselves a victory and come home
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. Newsweek article on this from last week
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17314883/site/newsweek/

I've watched "The Secret" dvd. It does, like many other "self-help" items, contain truths.
I know a number of people who have the same problem with it - to much of a focus on materialism. Of course, that focus is the draw for many people. Who WANTS to live in privation and want?
The writer who posted this, contends that the purpose of meditation IS NOT to quiet the mind. That depends on which genre of meditation your referring to. Some contend that this is the purpose, others do say it is only to facilitate observation of the mind and hence, self-knowledge.
Listen to the people who claim to have benifited from this information - do you believe them or don't you? It probably won't hurt you to try it - focusing on what you want, visualizing it and feeling "good" about it.
I practiced Nicheren Buddhism (Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo) for 5 years solid. It was common for initial practitioners to chant for "stuff" or an improvement in their material conditions.
When those needs are met, most people will aspire toward higher states of consciousness.
I believe the same applies to The Secret. Most people's suffering begins with privation and want, though there are plenty of other ways to suffer, including physical ailments and relationship problems.
The Secret does contain contradictions - is it the mind/thoughts that are important or is it the "feelings?" They are both important for happiness in life. Most people do not understand how the mind works and fall prey to many pitfalls as a result.
Look up quotes on Happiness - very interesting that they predominantly fall into 2 categories - self-fulfillment (material and otherwise) and/or being of service to others.
I believe that the deepest happiness and fulfillment comes from the service category. However, many people go through both - the self-fulfillment and then on to service, which requires a higher level of consciousness.
If people get help from "The Secret," let them! If they attain personal fulfillment, they are more likely to aspire to higher things, i.e. service to humanity.
Also, keep in mind that Karma and the "law of attraction" are very intricately related, though not exactly the same.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #24
54. Hey I did Nicheren Buddhism for seven years though it
Probably would have been only five if the "leaders"in my group had not terrified me that if I quit chanting I would lose all my benefits and become an injured toad or something in my next life. (I had some real doozies as leaders)

These days I remember those days with great fondness.
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. The problem is
humans are involved!
I had a good SGI experience. Many of the folks I knew were gay and had come to the practice at a time when the organization really frowned on that. Gays really hammered them over this and it really helped to open up SGI in many ways.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Thanks for hammering away at that!
Edited on Tue Mar-06-07 10:32 AM by truedelphi
Being a woman, I saw/felt a lot of chauvinism, etc. (And I totally understand that "the gay thing" is a harder row to hoe than that of anti-womanism)

But over all, it was a unique experience and some of the people I got to know are still among my closest friends
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. One piece of wisdom about SGI that I'll never forget
and I heard it from more than one person:
Learn to distinguish Buddhist beliefs from Japanese cultural underpinnings, which were rampant when SGI first came to the U.S. That, I believe, was the source of the chauvinism in SGI.
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #54
76. I wasted 5 years of my life with SGI
I had a very terrible set of experiences with those monsters. Time and time again they gave me "guidance" that I wasn't good enough. They kept telling me I had to do more activities even though they started to interfere with my work. Then, I bought an I-Mac and started going on the Internet and reading articles in the Japanese press about SGI abuses. I also made contact with Nichiren Shoshu temple members who told me the other side of the story. through the Internet, I encountered Rick Ross at http://www.rickross.com who helped me get out of that cult. When I left, SGI members went after me in full force and tried to make my life miserable. Rick helped me fend off their attacks, I also got a lot of help from Chabad to keep me from going back to those crooks and liars.
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BridgeTheGap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Bummer dude!
I really didn't have that experience at all where I was. There seemed to be a conscious effort to avoid that kind of crap. You could participate if you wanted to but there was no pressure to do so. The set up can lend itself to the "true believer" cult type of phenomenon, but most of the people I met through SGI were good folks. I'm sorry you had that kind of experience!
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Frankly, the SGI is run by Falwell-type liars and crooks
They keep telling you to chant at your altar and treat the mandala as a slot machine. Keep chanting for what you want and you will get it.

No difference between them and the Falwell Prosperity Gospel hucksters.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
49. It's a "well-deserved smack down" only to people who don't like
her anyway -- and they abound in our sexist, racist culture. No, I'm not saying your'e sexist and racist, but OTOH nor do I know you're not. The level of resentment that famous and wealthy women seem to generate is almost always fueled by sexism.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
51. Isn't this just a case of "what was old is new again"?
My mother used to carry on about Norman Vincent Peale's book, The Power of Positive Thinking when I was growing up.

I was deluged with sappy slogans like, "Smile and the world smiles with you, cry and you cry alone" and "Two men looked out from the prison bars: one saw mud, the other saw stars" and "If you smile on the outside, you'll feel the smile on the inside" and songs like "Happy Talk" from South Pacific.

I just don't understand the uproar about this new book (which I have not read). It's just a new package for the old positive thinking principle, isn't it? And in my experience, the positive thinking principle does work, at least to a degree.

So what's the big deal?

Am I missing something?

:shrug:
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #51
60. I agree
It is an age old principle, embodied in Normal Vincent Peale's The Power of Positive Thinking.

I am not sure what the uproar is about either. As far as I am concerned, you are not missing anything.

I admit I am baffled by the uproar too.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Whew!
I'm glad I'm not the only one!

:D

Reading this thread, though, I think I'm beginning to catch the drift of the new version -- that the real desired result is material wealth, from which inner happiness will spring -- or is it visa versa?

Seems to me that people who get sucked into this "Secret" fad are buying a bill of goods, because prosperity and inner happiness are two separate things that need to be cultivated in balance, like yin and yang, not expecting one exclusively to lead to the other.

Obviously, positive thinking and believing in yourself can cause a beneficial shift in attitude and attract new opportunities. However, hard work, integrity, and followup of those opportunities are at least as important.

Something tells me that latter part is not being emphasized to the same degree as the mystical "belief" part, which seems to be what is being touted exclusively.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
52. Oh Here is one BIG THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS
Edited on Tue Mar-06-07 12:38 AM by truedelphi
I happened to catch Oprah on one of the days that she was featuring "the Secret"

It really made me ill to watch it.

They portrayed the life of a lower middle class woman, a single mom who came on with her story of how she works a nine to five job and doesn't make enough money.

Boy, could Oprah, if she was honest, ever done a great deal with this woman's plight.

She could have spun off to critique the buying up of Congress by the banking industry.
She could have spun off to discuss that this woman probably pays as much or more than O. does to the Taxman. She could have seriously focused on the fact that we need to have a total re-structuring of the tax code.

O. could have discussed Globalization - and how that is locking more and more Americans into dead end jobs. She could have gently nudged every single person watching her show to get off their duffs and start phoning Congress, and start stirring up things locally and maybe even encouraging people to run for office locally.

But no - what was her spin off??

This working woman OBVIOUSLY needs to think positive!! Who cares if every time she bounces a check it costs her $ 28 top $ 33 dollars. (And when you are poor - if you bounce one check you quite likely bounce three or four or five - it spirals out of control.)

Who cares about the fact that she is locked into the bottom ring of society and that the tax code will keep her there?

I believe in positive thinking. I think that if done correctly you can move mountains. But it has to be done correctly. And too many of the people on her "the Secret" panel are frauds.

After all, Jack Canfield not only gyps every one who offers one of their personal stories to his very successful "Chicken Soup for the Soul" series - he also goes around the country to tell aspiring writers that with positive thoughts they too can become a publishing empire. (He fails to mention that his publishing empire got off the ground because he had over $ 100,000 worth of his and his partners' money to put things into operation.)

Maybe what happened here is that the one time that Oprah was an activist she ended up in a very time consuming and costly law suit (Back in the early nineties when she attempted to expose the meat industry. She has been scared ever since??)

I really wish she could acquire the understanding that would compell her to attempt to change the system. It could happen. When she stood up to the meat industry, she appeared to be really having a clear vision of her being a warrior woman rather than just a talk show host.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
55. Oh my God, there are people here who buy this crap.
Let me tell you, I was a happy little baby before the doctors found out I couldn't walk (after operations and therapy I walked at the age of four). I was all positive before my parents started beating the hell out of me at thirteen. I was thinking good thoughts before my uncle tried to molest me at sixteen. Being positive and happy did not help any of those situations. Sometimes shit happens no matter what you want, think or desire. Circumstances and other people are going to try to control you and hurt you. Most times it is just plain bad luck that you get caught up with these people and situations.

Now, someone said that since Oprah didn't wallow in her misery over her abuse and turned her life around the "Secret" works. She didn't keep her "victim" mentality. I say she was damn Unlucky before she was lucky. She certainly wallowed in her despair in the beginning. I don't think there was a single show, when she first got on air, that she didn't mention her abuse. She talked and cried about it constantly. Her good luck was that she had such a medium to work through her problems. Most of us don't have that much luck.

I now live in a nice home, with a very loving husband of 25 years and two healthy normal grown children. I've put in twenty years in the military and have a nice pension and good medical insurance. I will tell you none of that was related to thinking positively. None of my good fortune was due to happy thoughts magical thinking. It was all due to very hard work, determination, and a lot of good luck. I was not going to let other people control my life. I knew I could make a good life for myself and I went out and worked very hard at doing just that. There were many days when I was in pain, angry, frustrated, rude, sad, and negative. You know what? I still went to work everyday. I still cleaned the house with the few hours in the evening. I still made dinner even though I felt like crawling under the covers. It has nothing to do with what I thought, it had to do with what I did. And mostly I just worked (and took advantage of the luck that came my way).

Now some people will not get the chances I got. Some people will be born into this world under horrible circumstances and will never, ever get a chance to work themselves into a good life. Their life will be one bad situation after another and they wont know how to get out of it. But thinking happy thoughts is never ever going to solve their problems. Unless they work and get a lucky break now and then, all the happy thoughts in the world wont solve their problems.

It's what you do that matters, not what you think.
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. Thought doesn't matter!?!
Thought doesn't matter? What is "belief" but a form of thought? People used to believe the world was flat and that the Atlantic ocean fell off into oblivion. That belief had a rather dramatic impact on what people in Europe were willing to do (not sail beyond a certain point in the Atlantic.)

I promise you, if you look close enough, you will see where your thought processes/beliefs effect how you proceed in life. If you believe that failure is a horrible reflection of your life, it only takes a few "failures" to knock you down and keep you there. Sure, you may be able to hold down a job, but in all likelihood, it's going to be one that requires little of you, limiting the risk of failure. Now, whether or not thoughts/belief are "causal" is open to debate...that they have an impact on the quality of your life is beyond doubt.

Back in the 80s, I ran a job training program for people who had been on welfare, many of them for their entire adult lives. They had very deeply entrenched beliefs/thoughts about who they were, what they were capable of and about the "system" that, part and parcel of their belief system, kept them down (and I do THINK the system is not just). The most difficult part of shifting their beliefs was dealing with the people at home and in their neigborhood. Those folks ridiculed these people for even trying to better themselves.
But, you know what, some of these people shifted their THINKING and in doing so, were willing to try what they had THOUGHT impossible before: holding down a steady job. Many of them were successful at this and FELT much better about themselves as a result.
Thinking does effect what one is willing to do!
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-08-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #58
70. Well, you're correct.. I probably overstated my case.
True, thoughts influence what you do. But what I'm trying to get at is that thoughts alone don't have an impact. A person has to act on those thoughts to get anywhere in the world. You don't need to shell out for a book to tell you to act. Just keep plugging away. And sometimes you will have bad or negative thoughts but they don't matter either as long as you keep plugging away.

Of the two, thought or deed, I think deed carries you further.

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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-07-07 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
66. Here's the REAL $e¢ret!
You get 1,000,000 suckers to pony $29.95 for a DVD full of bullshit and then get them to pony up another $29.95 for the book version.

You then retire to Rio :-)
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-07-07 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
67. Didn't people figure this out when she hyped a mongoloid gym teacher, Dr.Phil, as brilliant?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-07-07 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
68. if you take one college psych class, you can quickly parse this crap
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MindBoggles Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
73. My second post: the blog I wrote this morning about Oprah and "The Secret", after reading this
Edited on Sun Mar-11-07 07:24 PM by MindBoggles
"The Secret"


"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)

"And again I saw under the sun that the reward goes not to him who is quick, or the fruits of war to the strong; and there is no bread for the wise, or wealth for men of learning, or respect for those who have knowledge; but time and chance come to all." (Ecclesiastes 9:11)

Think about it.

* * * * *

So last night Samantha and I were talking about "The Secret," and that reminded me that I never finished reading this article from Salon.com.



I enjoy Oprah's show, and, yes, she does a lot of good in the world. But Oprah has been selling snake oil for a long, long time, folks. It's like she's just determined to be the first one on the bandwagon for each new self-help, mind-body-spirit, New Age nonsense that hits the shelves/airwaves. And this is no exception.

Both reason-devoted atheists and genuine followers of various religions and philsophies should be appalled by this latest incarnation of spiritual Amway. Here are a few choice quotes from "The Secret":

"A number of exceptional men and women discovered The Secret, and went on to become known as the greatest people who ever lived. Among them: Plato, Leonardo, Galileo, Napoleon, Hugo, Beethoven, Lincoln, Edison, Einstein and Carnegie, to name but a few..."

""'How does it work? Nobody knows. Just like nobody knows how electricity works. I don't, do you?"

"The most common thought that people hold, and I held it too, is that food was responsible for my weight gain. That is a belief that does not serve you, and in my mind now it is complete balderdash! Food is not responsible for putting on weight. It is your thought that food is responsible for putting on weight that actually has food put on weight... If you see people who are overweight, do not observe them, but immediately switch your mind to the picture of you in your perfect body and feel it."

"' is like having the Universe as your catalogue. You flip through it and say, 'I'd like to have this experience and I'd like to have that product and I'd like to have a person like that.' It is you placing your order with the Universe. It's really that easy.' That's from Dr. Joe Vitale, former Amway executive and contributor to 'The Secret,' on Oprah.com."

"Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, and Jesus were not only prosperity teachers, but also millionaires themselves, with more affluent lifestyles than many present-day millionaires could conceive of."

This is the worst type of Joel Osteen-style "prosperity preaching" - and makes me, an atheist, want to vomit. While one can certainly make the argument that various religious teachers throughout history have had a whiff of the snake oil about them, I am offended at this new trend in American "spirituality" that suggests Christianty - or any other religion - is all about attracting material wealth. As much as I think it is a superstitious, largely intellectually surpassed, anthropological artifact, the Bible does contain a lot of - at least - interesting and, dare I say it, deep thoughts about the nature of the Universe and humanity. Struggling with one's personal values, failures, and beliefs is about more than "attracting prosperity" and "feeling good". Finding meaning in life and growing as a person requires effort, struggle, and pain. "Believing" something makes no difference one way or the other. Honest inquiry is an entirely different matter. Trouble is, honest inquiry and real self-actualization require time, work, and thinking.

And the fact that so many people (this crap is outselling the new Harry Potter) can read this transparent, derivative mishmash and not laugh out loud, but, rather, buy into it, leaves me scratching my head.

To quote the Salon article: 'And at what point do we stop feeling like we have to take the good with the craven when it comes to Oprah, and the culture she's helped to create? I get nauseated when I think of people in South Africa being taught they don't have enough money because they're "blocking it with their thoughts." I'm already sickened by an American culture that teaches people, as "The Secret" does, that they "create the circumstances of their lives with the choices they make every day," a culture that elected a president who cried tears of self-congratulation at his inauguration, rejects intellectualism, and believes he can intuit the trustworthiness of world leaders by looking into their eyes. I'm sickened by a culture in which the tenets of the Oprah philosophy have become conventional wisdom, in which genuine self-actualization has been confused with self-aggrandizement, reality is whatever you want it to be, and mammon is queen.'

It's this feel-goodism of the Oprah cult that really bothers me. It's great that Oprah does a lot of shows about giving, often spotlighting her Angel Network and encouraging people to be more charitable. But, often, it seems the real motivation behind this kind of giving is the truism that doing it makes you feel good.

And, again from Salon: "The titular 'secret' of the book is something the authors call the Law of Attraction. They maintain that the universe is governed by the principle that 'like attracts like' and that our thoughts are like magnets: Positive thoughts attract positive events and negative thoughts attract negative events. Of course, magnets do exactly the opposite -- positively charged magnets attract negatively charged particles -- and the rest of 'The Secret' has a similar relationship to the truth."

This, to me, is emblematic of our fundamental problem in this country; why we are so inexplicably "religious" while our cultural cousins in Canada and Europe are not; why people enthusiastically voted for Bushco; why the quality of our television programming is so abysmal. And I wonder what Dawkins would say! This reminds me of how he answers when people accuse him of "hating" religion. He says something along the lines of, "I don't think of it so much as hating religion - I just care about the truth." Only in America could the author of "The Secret" say something so blatantly idiotic as reversing the actual Law of Attraction and, as a result, have legions of people lining up to buy her "truth." Saying things - and believing things - does not make it so.

Speaking of Bush, this philosophy seems perfect for his era. I mean, if we just think positively and don't listen to any of the negative-minded "experts," then the Iraq war will turn itself around. ...Right?

Anyway, this latest phenomenon seems to be approaching the final fruits of American-style "spirituality." The need for the search - the journey - has been excised. Spend $4.95 watching "The Secret" on the web, and, hey, presto!, you're spiritual. The real meaning of life cannot be bought, and certainly cannot be absorbed through a two-hour streaming Internet broadcast, no matter how many times it arbitrarily references Napoleon. Which, incidentally, should reveal the true nature of this scheme to anyone with basic sense. How can one base a religious movement on on both Jesus and Napoleon? There's the lie. Jesus and Napoleon were both at the top of their fields - is that what we're supposed to glean? Yes, it's all about success (which, to us, today, means, at its most stripped, $$$, and perhaps, at a deeper pyschological level, "fulfillment" as evidenced by one's sense of living in a state of impenetrable self-esteem, surrounded by lovely things, in a world straight out of the pages of O Magazine).

Speaking of which, even the Catholic Church, that famous seller of indulgences, does not prominently display a link to a "Catholic Superstore" on their web page. Though, interestingly, both sites share a love of olde worlde parchment paper backgrounds, presumably to add an air of unassailable antiquity to their respective products. But, really, it's just another vehicle to sell crappy self-books with titles like "The Attractor Factor: 5 Easy Steps for Creating Wealth (or Anything Else) from the Inside Out." How can people look at this, and not think, Wow, there sure are a lot of ways this site is trying to get my money. Maybe they're not all about enlightment... Hmm... I wonder if there's a link to any L. Ron Hubbard books on there.

I shouldn't have to say this, but in today's Oprah-worshipping, post-Dubya http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carnegie/gildedage.html">New Gilded Age (no coincidence that "The Secret" name-drops both Plato and Andrew Carnegie), in which the most emulated Americans seem to be the totally morally bankrupt and intellectually hollow (and thus, to many of us, boring) Paris Hilton and Donald Trump, it seems necessary to belabor the obvious: real success, and real spirituality (which, personally, I define simply as philosophical depth), is none of these things. It is something come by the hard way, the old-fashioned way. Through choosing, consciously, to Do the Right Thing, even when it's more difficult. Through pain and suffering and heartbreak and hard work and learning what hope really is. Through long nights spent in tortured thought. Real personal growth, not the stuff of cheesy corporate posters, is hard. It's not pretty. It doesn't make you feel good. And there is no "secret."

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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #73
80. Oprah made up the word, "impactful," how can you take her serious? nt
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MindBoggles Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. if you like that
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. That's just wrong. LOL..
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