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Robert Fisk: Entire Lebanese family killed in Israeli attack on hospital

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 10:39 PM
Original message
Robert Fisk: Entire Lebanese family killed in Israeli attack on hospital
The great war correspondent Robert Fisk reporting from the front (Fisk lives in Lebanon):

Robert Fisk: Entire Lebanese family killed in Israeli attack on hospital

Published: 03 August 2006


An attack on a hospital, the killing of an entire Lebanese family, the seizure of five men in Baalbek and a new civilian death toll - 468 men, women and children - marked the 22nd day of Israel's latest war on Lebanon.

The Israelis claimed that helicopter-borne soldiers had seized senior Hizbollah leaders although one of them turned out to be a local Baalbek grocer. In a village near the city, Israeli air strikes killed the local mayor's son and brother and five children in their family.

<snip>

Outside the shattered Dar al-Hikma hospital in Baalbek yesterday stood two burnt cars and a minivan, riddled with bullet-holes. Hizbollah, it seems, fought the Israelis there for more than an hour. The hospital, which includes several British-manufactured heart machines, was empty when the Israeli raid began and was partly destroyed in the fighting.

The Lebanese army, which has tried to stay out of the conflict - heaven knows what its 75,000 soldiers are supposed to do - was attacked again by the Israelis yesterday when they fired a missile into a car which they claimed was carrying a Hizbollah leader. They were wrong. The soldier inside died instantly, joining the 11 other Lebanese troops proclaimed as "martyrs" by the government from a logistics unit killed in an Israeli air raid two weeks ago.

The obscene score-card for death in this latest war now stands as follows: 508 Lebanese civilians, 46 Hizbollah guerrillas, 26 Lebanese soldiers, 36 Israeli soldiers and 19 Israeli civilians.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1211295.ece
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. one more bit from article
In other words, Hizbollah is killing more Israeli soldiers than civilians and the Israelis are killing far more Lebanese civilians than they are guerrillas. The Lebanese Red Cross has found 40 more civilian dead in the south of the country in the past two days, many of them with wounds suggesting they might have survived had medical help been available.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. The longer this war lasts, and if the casualty rate for IDF remains the
same, it will be Olmert who will be begging for a ceasefire.
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AlamoDemoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. BINGO
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wonder how many family members of the 500+ dead civilians
in Lebanon will become bitter enough to try and kill Israeli's in the future?

It seems Israel and the US are on a mission to CREATE as much mayhem and destruction in Lebanon and throughout the ME as they are able to insure a steady flow of terrorists for years to come. The whole thing in Lebanon is just way to bloody to be merely retaliation for the kidnapping of TWO Israeli soldiers. Some have said it is a water grab others have said it is an attempt to provide the basis for attacks on Syria and Iran. It appears to me that this invasion has more elements than just defending Israel.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. There are many obscene elements to the war in Lebanon
but the most obscene, after the loss of human lives, is watching Bush and Blair playing good cop-bad cop.

What Bush and Blair are really doing is stalling in hopes that Israel would achieve victory in Lebanon. From the casualty numbers mentioned by Fisk, it seems like Israel is losing this war just as we are losing ours in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Fisk's reporting from Beirut has been outstanding.
Amy Goodman has had him on several mornings, and he recounts his day's adventures in trying to get to and fro the city to various places on the goat tracks to prevent becoming a "top Hezbollah travelling in a convoy." I am now reading the Independent as well as Guardian and Observor...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. The Independent used to charge a fee for reading Fisk's articles
but in the last 3 days, Fisk's reports have been freely available to all users. Imagine a newspaper with a conscience!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. So, if IDF is groused that Lebanon won't try to control Hezbollah--
--why are they attacking and killing Lebanese soldiers?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Why isn't Israel demanding the release of the captured IDF soldiers?
Remember them? They were the reason given for going to war, but now Israel is only talking about destroying Hezbollah. Does this remind you of Bush saying we were going into Iraq because of WMDs, and now the rationale given for the war is to fight "global war on terror?"
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IntiRaymi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. This whole thing is obscene.
You complain about the IDF's tactics, and you get branded an antisemite.
Go take a look at the orgy of compassion going on in that thread about the latest run of the mill hate crime in Rome - where no one was physically hurt.
Those same alarmists couldn't give two shits about entire families killed by mistake, or dozens of children murdered while Qana was being flattened.
How can any of this get more disgusting?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Baalbek after the bombs
"In two minutes only, 42 years of work have been finished and everything has been lost"

Sala Barake, factory manager


The factory was hit two weeks
ago. Image: Christian Henderson

Baalbek after the bombs

By Christian Henderson in Baalbek

Thursday 03 August 2006, 2:27 Makka Time, 23:27 GMT


The Bekaa has sometimes been called the "hidden front" in this war and more than 100 civilians from this agricultural region have been killed in Israeli air strikes.

At least five factories in the area have been destroyed resulting in the loss of around 1,500 jobs. The main border crossing between Lebanon and Syria is now closed following repeated attacks and the main road between Beirut and Damascus is deserted.

Further south of Baalbek, we reach the outskirts of the town of Chatura and are met by the remains of the second biggest glass factory in the Middle East.

Salah Barake, one of the managers of the plant, took us up onto part of the roof that remained standing so we could look directly into the wreckage.

Lunch break

Huge craters had been left by the five or six missiles that had ploughed through the metal, glass and machinery. The factory was Indian owned and two Indian workers were killed in the attack.

Barake said: "It’s a miracle more people were not killed. It was just luck that most of them were having lunch when the Israelis hit.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/83CFE3BF-10AB-452E-9745-C6A7919B93E4.htm

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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. But the photo appears to be of a milk factory - a creamery
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 06:26 AM by Ghost Dog
Liban Lait (French) = Lebanon Milk (English)
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. That's a milk factory in Al-Jazeera's photo in the story
Fisk mentioned in one of his earlier dispatches that he used their cream for his coffee. The creamery was hit early in the war.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. If no one was hurt why a comparison? n/t
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IntiRaymi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. The comparison is apt.
What strikes me is the selfishness involved.
What matters more?
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. yup, they are playing silly semantic games on that thread.
what i posted was completely misrepresented by one of the posters. it gets frustrating.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. The megaphones are out in force!
"Look at me, I am a victim!" They will say in order to distract our attention from the 900 dead, 3,000 wounded civilians, and a million displaced persons in Lebanon all thanks to Israeli aggression.
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
14. Could reporting be any more biased
The easy answer is yes -- look at anything coming straight from the horses' mouths ot Faux.

But:

An attack on a hospital, the killing of an entire Lebanese family, the seizure of five men in Baalbek and a new civilian death toll - 468 men, women and children - marked the 22nd day of Israel's latest war on Lebanon.

According to the very same article, the 22nd day of fighting ALSO included "Hizbollah continu{ing} to fire dozens of missiles over the border into Israel, killing one Israeli and wounding 21."

The Israelis claimed that helicopter-borne soldiers had seized senior Hizbollah leaders although one of them turned out to be a local Baalbek grocer. In a village near the city, Israeli air strikes killed the local mayor's son and brother and five children in their family.

It's like some ginat game with statistics or yet another non-sequitur. ANother way of looking at this might be "EIGHTY PERCENT of the people seized were Hezbollah leaders. The local maypr's son and brother were Hezbollah supporters aiding in illegally launching missile strikes against the nation of Israel. Had they lived, perhaps the son and brother would be held for trial in an International Tribunal for war crimes for using civilians as hostages? I doubt, but probably not fot he same reasons that you do.

The battle for Lebanon was fast moving out of control last night. Lebanese troops abandoned many of their checkpoints and European diplomats were warning their colleagues that militiamen were taking over the positions. Up to 8,000 Israeli troops were reported to have crossed the border by last night in what was publicised as a military advance towards the Litani river. But far more soldiers would be needed to secure so large an area of southern Lebanon.

This is the part that I suspect NEITHER you NOR I really get, at least without having been there. If the Isaelis were hell-bent on conquering Lebanon, then why did they NOT send enough troops? And why, if Hezbollah only makes up 10% of the government, is the Lebanese governemnt able to curtail them?

The Israelis sent paratroopers to attack an Iranian-financed hospital in Baalbek in the hope of capturing wounded Hizbollah fighters but, after an hour's battle, got their hands on only five men whom the Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, later called "tasty fish". The operation suggests what Hizbollah has all along said was the purpose of the Israeli campaign: to swap prisoners and to exchange Hizbollah fighters for the two Israeli soldiers who were captured on the border on 12 July.

Tasty fish? That doesn't mean anything particularly. And why does the Israeli operation "suggest what Hizbollah has all along said..." if the article isn't biased? And notice the word "sugest?" Used in a way to suggest "prove?" Couldn't it have just as easily have said -- AND BEEN JUST AS ACCURATE -- "The Israeli operation suggests what the IDF has long said, that Hezbollah is using civilian infrastructure to hide its activities..."?

Hizbollah continued to fire dozens of missiles over the border into Israel, killing one Israeli and wounding 21, with Israeli artillery firing shells back into Lebanon at the rate of one every two minutes. For the first time, a Hizbollah rocket struck the West Bank as well as the Israeli town of Beit Shean, the longest-range missile to have been fired so far. Yet still the West seems unable to produce an end to a war which is clearly overwhelming both Hizbollah and the Israelis.

Why is it the West's job. yes, the US supplied Israel. But Syria and Iran supplied Hezbollah. Where's the outrage against them for not stopping the violence?

Hizbollah obviously has far more missiles than the Israelis believed - there is not a town in northern Israel which is safe from their fire - and the Israeli army apparently has no plan to defeat Hizbollah other than the old and hopeless policy of occupying southern Lebanon. If Hizbollah had planned this campaign months in advance - and if the Israelis did the same - then neither side left room for diplomacy.

One of the few things that I have no disagreement with

The French have wisely said they will lead a peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon only after a ceasefire. And to be sure, they will not let this become a Nato-led army. France already has a company of 100 soldiers in the UN force in southern Lebanon, whose commander is himself French, but Paris, after watching the chaos in Iraq, has no illusions about Western armies in the Middle East.

What good is a peacekeeping force AFTER a ceasefire? Whi;'s going to instill it and enforce it?

Outside the shattered Dar al-Hikma hospital in Baalbek yesterday stood two burnt cars and a minivan, riddled with bullet-holes. Hizbollah, it seems, fought the Israelis there for more than an hour. The hospital, which includes several British-manufactured heart machines, was empty when the Israeli raid began and was partly destroyed in the fighting.

"which included several British manufactured heart machines?" Could yellow journalism be any more yellow? What's the purpose of including this? And the hospital apprently wasn't empty, now was it? The captured Hezbollah members and the various cars "riddled" with machine gun fire would indicate this, wouldn't it? From the very story I'm lambasting? And not to mention the earlier Hezbollah reports that they had trapped a contingent of Israelis inside the hospital.

The Lebanese army, which has tried to stay out of the conflict - heaven knows what its 75,000 soldiers are supposed to do - was attacked again by the Israelis yesterday when they fired a missile into a car which they claimed was carrying a Hizbollah leader. They were wrong. The soldier inside died instantly, joining the 11 other Lebanese troops proclaimed as "martyrs" by the government from a logistics unit killed in an Israeli air raid two weeks ago.

Why haven't those 75,000 soldiers stopped hezbollah well before this? If, as so many suggest, we accept the premise that Hezbollah has moved to a democratic position and not a terroristic one, then why haven't the 90% of Lebanese (assuming that the Army has similar percentages) who DON'T support Hezabollah DO something about them?

The obscene score-card for death in this latest war now stands as follows:

I would agree wholeheartedly with the use of the word "obscene." I'm not arguing that one side is right, only that one side is not more "right" than the other.

508 Lebanese civilians, 46 Hizbollah guerrillas, 26 Lebanese soldiers, 36 Israeli soldiers and 19 Israeli civilians. In other words, Hizbollah is killing more Israeli soldiers than civilians and the Israelis are killing far more Lebanese civilians than they are guerrillas. The Lebanese Red Cross has found 40 more civilian dead in the south of the country in the past two days, many of them with wounds suggesting they might have survived had medical help been available.

Can someone abuse statistics more blatantly?

First off, the Hezbollah rockets are not aimed at Israeli soldiers, they're aimed at Israeli civilian populations. Should we claim that the Israelis are on the losing side because they have better aimed weapons?

Secondly, where's the outrage against Hezbollah for putting their terror-weapons in civilian areas? For instance, there was a lot of outrage last week about the UN observers who were killed, until it was revealed that they'd radioed in about the Hezbollah rocket positions that has set up adjacent to them. They've set up shop in downtown Beirut amongst thousands of civilians. Hezbollah has gone out of their way to kill civiians, while Israel has gone out of their way to achieve the opposite effect. Yes, more Lebanese civilians have been killed than Israeli civilians. But should we get angry against Israel because they have more accurate weapons and their targets happebn to be located in Lebanese territory? Ir do we get angry agaisnt the HEzbollah forces that located their assets inside of schools, churches, and apartment buildings, but who aim randomly with the sole intention of killing Jews?

Or perhaps we realize the statistical lie when we realize that soldiers vs. civilians killed is just that: a statistical lie. The Israeli soldiers being killed are in unfamiliar territory, and they're being kiled by snipers and IEDs. The Hezbollah missiles are being aimed at civilians.

And are we to blame Israel for having better medical care for their wounded? When they're not using their hospitals as bases of operation?

Is Israel WRONG for having better equipment and bigger bombs?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes, as a matter of fact
Israel is wrong for having bigger and better bombs.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. No, Israel is wrong for being a mighty super power who shows
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 04:54 AM by ShortnFiery
less compassion for the casualties of their adversary.

Further, in the eyes of the observing World Community, the mighty superpower is expected to be the restrained party.

Otherwise it seemingly equates to watching a grown man beating a 12 year old boy into a coma.

Both the USA and Israel have a very poor grasp of Sociology for they are CREATING more *militants* faster than they can KILL the existing ones. :(
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yes. I just 'duped' this, by mistake, in LBN.
I wasn't expecting to find this reporting in Editorials - and, strangely, the Independent's timestamp appears to be in error: it appeared to have been only just published.

Has been removed from LBN now, together with this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x140967
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Don't you know that the IDF always tells the Gospel truth
and that anything that contradicts them is just an opinion?

It is my opinion that Israel's genocide in Lebanon will only result in blowback that will make Israel wish they still had Hamas and Hezbollah to deal with.

It is my opinion that we will pay with American lives for Bush's fanatical opposition to a ceasefire in Lebanon.

It was my opinion that invading Iraq would be a major disaster.

Opinions when based on factual information are no longer just "opinions."
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