can we get some confirmation...

[saline]

As has been shown in the past Ann Coulter occasionally has problems with her sources, who doesnt? You know whats a little lying among minor editorialists? Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew if any of the stories found in this piece are true or not?

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/ac20030925.shtml

I've got that gut feeling that tells me most of them are a drastic exaggeration and or completely false. However I was hoping to find something more concrete.

I've been looking, anyone else find anything?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Searched Atrios and it was addressed here:

Fact-Checking David Limbaugh Via Ann Coulter

This week, Ann is even lazier than normal. Her entire column is dedicated to praising, and, I assume, liberally stealing from, David Limbaugh's new book Persecution: How Liberals Are Waging War Against Christianity.

Coulter calls it a "copiously researched book " and offers up this anecdote right off the bat

In a public school in St. Louis, a teacher spotted the suspect, fourth-grader Raymond Raines, bowing his head in prayer before lunch. The teacher stormed to Raymond's table, ordered him to stop immediately and sent him to the principal's office. The principal informed the young malefactor that praying was not allowed in school. When Raymond was again caught praying before meals on three separate occasions, he was segregated from other students, ridiculed in front of his classmates, and finally sentenced to a week's detention.

That is outrageous. But since Limbaugh and Coulter and Newt Gingrich couldn't be bothered to do the little research necessary to determine if it was actually true, I did it for them.

From the Washington Post on December 6, 1994

The 10-year-old boy in St. Louis whom House Speaker-to-be Newt Gingrich said was put in detention for saying grace in a public school cafeteria was in fact disciplined for matters entirely unrelated to praying in school, according to the superintendent of St. Louis schools.

http://demagogue.blogspot.com/2003_09_21_demagogue_archive.html#106450235471371772

[saline]

2. thanks, I found something too

I found a blog referencing another (or at least it seems that way) page: The blog is here: http://georgemustgo.blogspot.com/ he references a site or group called "Ann Coulter is a Lousy Writer and She Isn't Even That Hot" a long, if descriptive title. Thanks for the second link.

[ThoughtCriminal]

3. She got the stories from "Persecution"

David Limbaugh's book. And as usual, the stories don't check out.

http://demagogue.blogspot.com/2003_09_21_demagogue_archive.html#106450235471371772

Yeah, a kid gets in trouble for fighting in the cafeteria then says he was punished because he was praying.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. Google "Raymond Raines"...

and don't forget the quotes, and see what happens.

(One discussion list suggests Snopes, which is always a good idea.)

Then google the other stories to whatever extent possible. Proper names are often the best way. Remember that keeping the names in quotes makes sure you get the exact names returned.

Much of this stuff is ancient, and highly spun, like Raines:

http://www.holysmoke.org/hs00/gingrich.htm

Coulter is quoting from the book, which should have some more sources, if anyone wants to dirty their hands with the thing, but this is another example of someone digging through archives to find what are really exceptions to the rule. These incidents are really rare, and many have to be exaggerated and spun to make the points these people want to make.

My argument is always that these incidents, even if true, are not typical, and the fact that they make the news at all is because they are rare and bizarre.

[La_Serpiente]

5. Just some things to comment on

Most of the points mentioned in her column are based on hearsay either from the book or from her own personal experiences. Honestly, I don't seriously think that all of those things happened. The Supreme Court has ruled that school officials cannot saction organized religous events...such as like everyone is being forced to go to an assembly and pray....but they are required to allow individuals to pray if they indeed choose to do so.

I really don't think that those events happened. If they did happen, the author probably left a lot of stuff out.

And with the invasion in Spain against the Christian Visigoths, the Moors didn't just punished Chrisitans that stood in their way. Most Christians lived in peace with the Moors. These Chrisitians that didn't convert to Islam but still remained in Moorish controlled territory were called "MozArabes". Of course, they had to pay a tax since they weren't Muslim, but they still lived in peace. Christians that convert to Islam weren't killed. These people were called "Muladies".

Christians who didn't want to have anything to do with Islam lived in the upper North-Western part of the country in Galicia past the mountains of "Cordillera Cantabrica". On occasion, the Moors tried to take them over, but it didn't work. The Moors ended up just giving up.

And what was suprising was that Jews and Moors lived in Peace then. It was the Spanish Inquisistion that killed Jews and Muslims. If it wasn't for the Moors of Spain, the European Renissance wouldn't have occured. The Moors, who were very enlightened, translated all of the literature of the Greeks and Romans. They also organized all of the information. The Moors had a greater impact on Western Society that most people don't give them credit for.