Mercury in childhood vaccines may have caused autism

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Deadly immunity
When a study revealed that mercury in childhood vaccines may have caused autism in thousands of kids, the government rushed to conceal the data -- and to prevent parents from suing drug companies for their role in the epidemic.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Robert F. Kennedy Jr.



June 16, 2005 | In June 2000, a group of top government scientists and health officials gathered for a meeting at the isolated Simpsonwood conference center in Norcross, Ga. Convened by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the meeting was held at this Methodist retreat center, nestled in wooded farmland next to the Chattahoochee River, to ensure complete secrecy. The agency had issued no public announcement of the session -- only private invitations to 52 attendees. There were high-level officials from the CDC and the Food and Drug Administration, the top vaccine specialist from the World Health Organization in Geneva, and representatives of every major vaccine manufacturer, including GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Wyeth and Aventis Pasteur. All of the scientific data under discussion, CDC officials repeatedly reminded the participants, was strictly "embargoed." There would be no making photocopies of documents, no taking papers with them when they left.

The federal officials and industry representatives had assembled to discuss a disturbing new study that raised alarming questions about the safety of a host of common childhood vaccines administered to infants and young children. According to a CDC epidemiologist named Tom Verstraeten, who had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines -- thimerosal -- appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten told those assembled at Simpsonwood, citing the staggering number of earlier studies that indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism. Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.

-snip-

But instead of taking immediate steps to alert the public and rid the vaccine supply of thimerosal, the officials and executives at Simpsonwood spent most of the next two days discussing how to cover up the damaging data. According to transcripts obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, many at the meeting were concerned about how the damaging revelations about thimerosal would affect the vaccine industry's bottom line.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/06/16/thimerosal/index.html

[BrklynLiberal]

1. How terribly sad. so many lives ...

[opihimoimoi]

2. All those Learned People, in High Places, many PHDs, etc,

and no one dared to do THE RIGHT THING and only focused on the exit plan....? How to get away with little or NO damage.....

What the Hell they teach in College anyway??? How to get away with shit?

Damn.....

[mzmolly]

5. This should not be missed. I hope others will join me in a RECOMMENDATION

for the greatest page.

[mzmolly]

3. Stunning that the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics are NOW

concerned.

What an amazing article, and I've only just begun to read it.

RECOMMENDED.

:wow:

It seems that the truth is trickling out ...

I'm not personally taking a position on whether or not Thimerosal is increasing cases of autism, but I am amazed that the "cover-up" of the possibility is coming into daylight.

[dave502d]

4. These people need to be put in jail! n/t

[LibertyorDeath]

6. Thanks and rec I've been reading about this for years

For those that trust the CDC the Government and Corp America.

Time to wake the fuck up.

[tavalon]

7. I researched this back in 2001-2002

I'm a nurse and I work in L/D. I gave those shots to many newborns. Then when I met J. and his mom, his mom told me she thought she had caused his autism by allowing him to have his vaccinations. I "knew" she was wrong (ah, the hubris of the medical community!) and I did the research to be able to show he that she was wrong and that vaccinating J. didn't contribute to his autism.

That six months of intensive research broke my heart and destroyed my faith in the religion of medicine. The CDC and the IOM found out by 1998 that the thimerosal in the vaccines had contributed to the upsurge in autism and the bastards covered it up. They are still covering it up. Luckily the American Association of Pediatricians stepped up and refused to recommend the Hep B vaccine for newborns until the thimerosal was removed and that caused a cascade that has led to it being removed from all childhood vaccines although it's still in the adult flu shot so pregnant women should never, ever get the flu shot (despite what the CDC says).

[flygal]

9. Is it removed from all vaccines or only in certain states?

My daughter had this shot while an infant. I was always under the impression it was the shot they received at 14 months that had the connection to autism. shit.

[Igel]

14. Austistic traits are detectable before 12 months.

Post hoc, ergo ...?

[tavalon]

20. No, it's far more complicated than that

The MMR is the one that people have blamed and yet, it never had thimerosal. But being a triple vaccine, when it was given on top of the insult of multiple injections of mercury, it often ended up being the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

As far as I know, all of the childhood vaccines are now without thimerosal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. So how do you explain the European researchers

who swear there is no connection between the vaccines and autism?

[tavalon]

38. Because one of the things I learned in school

was how to evaluate studies and determine if their conclusions are therefore valid. In all of the studies I looked at, there were methodological mistakes that would render the results they got but make those results quite suspect.

In most cases, they came up with a conclusion and fixed the facts around it.

Kind of like what the Bush and Blair administrations have been doing.

BTW, most of those studies, while carried out in Europe, were carried out by Merck, GlaxoSmithKline and Ely Lilly. Names sound familiar? Yep, those are some independent scientific studies!:eyes:

When you have done the two years of protracted and intense study (as I did) into this specific issue, come back and tell me I'm wrong.

[evolvenow]

36. Have you heard of LL Magnetic Clay? It is said to detox heavy metals.

http://www.evenbetternow.com/autism.html

[rucky]

8. My wife made the right decision not to immunize my daughter.

She's been going with her gut on this. I was wrestling with it until this article - which I'll be sending to the parents of my autistic nephew and autistic cousin.

[Stuckinthebush]

10. Playing the odds

What are the odds of developing autism?

What are the odds of developing a deadly and/or debilitating childhood disease?

[rucky]

11. autism odds are greater

one in every 114 kids born in the US, currently.

[earth mom]

18. I was BORN with Measles

and I survived. They do NOT need to vaccinate infants when their brains are still developing. It's f-cking common sense.

It's all about MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY! :puke:

[malmapus]

16. Same here, my fiancee and I did alot of research while we were

expecting our daughter. Her sister has two children, one of them does have autism and the other has something else. But both seemed to have the reaction after getting their vaccines.

Needless to say my 22 month old has yet to have any shots and she's doing fine. Hasn't even been really sick at all, just sniffles maybe once or twice heh.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. So I take it you aren't

old enough to remember polio?

My sister is legally blind today from the measles.

I realize you want to be careful but you are taking a tremendous risk.

[Demeter]

12. People, The Case Is NOT Made

Autistic people have brain abnormalities in the primitive structures and those brain organs form BEFORE birth.

The fact that autisim may not be NOTICED until the age at which immunizations are given is a coincidence--not a proof of cause and effect.

My child was different from birth, and I can document it. Autism describes a cluster of symptoms of a genetic defect, due to inbreeding in a small population on her father's side in my daughter's case.

That said, mercury doesn't belong in medicine, and should be replaced with something non-toxic. But don't leap to conclusions like a bunch of lemmings.

[alarimer]

13. Right

What about mercury from fish?? There is a lot more of it in tuna, for example, than they use in vaccines. I say this article is fear mongering bullshit. I wrote a letter to Salon basically sating that.

[K-W]

39. Robert F Kennedy Jr has considerable credibility.

Why exactly do you think he is making this up?

[rexcat]

42. Where did he get is medical degree from?

n/t

[K-W]

44. Why would you ask a question that has nothing to do with my post?

I never claimed he had a medical degree, and nor did he, your post has nothing at all to do with this discussion, not a single on of Kennedy's claims rests on his medical credentials.

[rexcat]

45. Sorry but I think it does...

The original post "Mercury in childhood vaccines may have caused autism." Several posts later your comment: "Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has considerable credibility."

The point I am trying to make here is one epidemiologist makes a "stunning" discovery that no other MD, scientist or epidemiologist has been able to make (see original post) and Mr. Kennedy writes an article about a subject where he has no credentials to review the epidemiologists conclusions with a knowledgeable, critical view. I think Mr. Kennedy, who I have a lot of respect for, crossed the line with the article.

There have been more than a few scientists, MDs and epidemiologists who will need to review the findings of this "study" and see if they come to the same conclusion or discover if there are flaws with the data. I think this is sensationalism on Mr. Kennedy's part.

I have worked in clinical research for the past 17 years, 3 1/2 years in R&D and 14 years in the clinical setting and I don't think I could review the data as critically as the MDs and scientists who work with autism. What I find interesting in the scientific literature is doctors are getting better at diagnosing autism and this is occurring at ever younger ages which could suggest these kids are born with the problem such as a hardwiring issue with the brain. On the other hand mercury could be an issue but our environment is also contaminated with mercury confounding the issue with regards to mecury in vaccines.

The jury is out and I don't put much credibility in one article or one person's opinion.

[K-W]

49. Well, it simply doesnt,

The word credibility doesnt mean doctor under any definition Ive ever heard of.

"The jury is out and I don't put much credibility in one article or one person's opinion."

The Jury is not out, there is no jury. The situation is being strictly controlled by government agencies and corporations, Kennedy's entire point is that we need to open this situation up and expose it to legitimate scientific scrutiny, but I guess you were too busy thinking of canards to throw at the article, like pointing out the obvious and irrelevent fact that Kennedy is not a doctor, to actually bother reading it.

Kennedy agrees in full with you, all he wants is the truth to get out. And, just FYI, my point about credibility is that someone of Kennedy's stature, reputation, and proffessional acumen would be a moron to write this article if there werent a legitimate reason to be concerned. Im not saying you are wrong and he is right, just that it would be odd for someone of his credibility to go off half cocked.

Lets be clear here.

Kennedy is NOT opposing immunization.
Kennedy is NOT claiming he knows the whole truth.

Kennedy is saying that the evidence is very troublesome and that the government and pharma industry are standing in the way of investigation. He wants exactly what I think you want, which is unbiased scientific scrutiny of the situation.

And you seem to be copletely ignoring that Kennedy presented evidence of a coverup.

[rexcat]

50. May I suggest you take your tinfoil hat off.

Currently none of the vaccines used in pediatrics have thimerosal (mercury) in them and have not for several years (Drugs Facts and Comparisons, April 2005). The two vaccines that can by used in the pediatric setting that contain thimerosal are Pneumococcal vaccine (of the two "brands" only one contains thimerosal) and Meningococcal vaccine which is typically not used in children unless there has been some type of exposure, but typically they will receive rifampin which is an antibiotic and does not contain mecury if there is a know exposure to Neisseria meningococcus.

Please get your facts staight before you engage in active debate. It would appear that you and Mr. Kennedy don't know what you are talking about when it comes to vaccines.

On edit: the vaccines that use attenuated viruses obviously don’t contain thimerosal because it would render the vaccine non-immunogenic (for non-medical people the vaccine would not work).

[NoHg]

51. Afraid not

There was at least 25 micrograms in each vaccine, a child receiving
multiple vaccines could receive as much as 167.5 mg in a single
pediatric visit. This would be considered unsafe for a 800 pound
person according to the EPA.

[phylny]

37. I wonder what the catalyst for autism is (and I believe we'll

find out that there are many different environmental assaults that attack someone who's genetically susceptible). While I can't discount the fact that vaccines *might* be one of the catalysts, I concur with your assertion.

One mother of a boy that I worked with with PDD said she knew when she was pregnant with him that something was different about him. She said his movements were odd, and she just had a feeling that something wasn't quite right.

I work with families that already had a nephew or niece with autism and who specifically were careful about vaccines and a vaccination schedule. One of the parents (mother) is a doctor. Her first-born daughter is autistic, despite her precautions. (P.S., they eat a LOT of fish in their family.)

For me and my teenaged girls, I have told them not to eat any fish until after they're finished having their babies. I do think heavy metals/mercury is one, if not the most debilitating, catalyst and want to help them avoid it at all costs.

[PA Democrat]

43. Do you have a link to support your claim that the brains of people with

autism are abnormal from birth? Autism is generally diagnosed between the ages of 2 and 3, so how could researchers know what these children's brains looked like at birth?

Additionally, babies' brains are not fully developed at birth. They have an excess of neurons but the actual synapses necessary for skills such as walking, talking, etc. are not yet formed. During the first three years of a baby's life a significant amount of further maturation of the brain occurs. I would imagine that exposure to a neurotoxin during the first three years of life could have a devastating effect on a child's development.

[Demeter]

46. For REAL Autism Research, Check This Out

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=autism%20brain%20autopsy

[Demeter]

47. And As For Marijuana Use By Men....

http://www.humed.com/humc_ency/patient_education/articles/000067_4.htm


"Substance Abuse. Cocaine or heavy marijuana use appears to temporarily reduce the number and quality of sperm by as much as 50%. Sperm actually have receptors for certain compounds in marijuana that may impair the sperm’s ability to swim and also inhibit their ability to penetrate the egg. Alcohol does not appear to affect fertility, unless it is so abused that it causes liver changes.....

WHAT ARE THE CAUSES OF MALE INFERTILITY?

In a 2001 study, the causes of infertility in men seeking to conceive were the following:

Vasectomy. 56% of men in the study were seeking a reversal of this procedure. Thirty years ago, this was a factor in only 5% of men seeking help for fertility.
Varicocele (14%)
Unknown infertility (8%)
Absence of sperm (6%). There are many biologic and environmental factors that can lead to low sperm count. For instance, abnormalities in production or obstruction of the tubes that carry sperm can reduce sperm levels. A condition called Sertoli cell-only syndrome is one in which the cells that produce sperm (the Sertoli cells) are absent. This can be a congenital problem that a man is born with or caused by infection, injury, medication, radiation, or genetics. In addition, other conditions may cause infertility in men.
Age

The effect of aging on male fertility is not clear, although evidence is growing that it may be a factor (although not to the extent that it is in women). One earlier study suggested that sperm number and quality do not decline until beyond age 64, but a subsequent 2000 trial reported reductions in sperm count and quality between the second and fifth decade of life. Another study reported that fertilization rates during fertility treatments were over 60% for men under 39 but fell to slightly over half after age 40. Genetic defects in sperm have also been observed to increase with advancing age, although the implications for fertility are unclear.

Temporary and Lifestyle Causes of Low Sperm Count
Nearly any major physical or mental stress can temporarily reduce sperm count. Some common conditions that lower sperm count, temporarily in nearly all cases, include the following:

Emotional Stress. Stress may interfere with the hormone GnRH and reduce sperm counts.

Sexual Issues. In less than 1% of cases, impotence, premature ejaculation, or psychological or relationship problems contribute to male infertility, although these conditions are usually very treatable. Lubricants used with condoms, including spermicides, oils, and Vaseline, can affect fertility. Astroglide, Replens, or mineral oil may not be as harmful to sperm. However, oil-based lubricants can damage latex condoms and should be avoided.

Testicular Overheating. Overheating, such as from high fevers, saunas, and hot tubs, may temporarily lower sperm count. Persistent exposure to high temperatures during work may even impair fertility. One French study suggested that driving for only two hours a day can increase temperature in the scrotum and reduce sperm count. This study was small, however, and more research is needed. A number of trials have found no negative effects on fertility from wearing tight trousers, briefs, or athletic supports, even every day.

Substance Abuse. Cocaine or heavy marijuana use appears to temporarily reduce the number and quality of sperm by as much as 50%. Sperm actually have receptors for certain compounds in marijuana that may impair the sperm’s ability to swim and also inhibit their ability to penetrate the egg. Alcohol does not appear to affect fertility, unless it is so abused that it causes liver changes.

Smoking. Smoking impairs sperm motility, reduces sperm lifespan, and may cause genetic changes that affect the offspring. One 2002 trial found that men or women who smoke have lower success rates with assisted reproductive technologies. An earlier study reported that men who smoke also have lower sex drives and less frequent sex.

Malnutrition and Nutrient Deficiencies. Deficiencies in certain nutrients, such as vitamin C, selenium, zinc, and folate, may be particular risk factors for infertility.

Obesity. Some studies, but not all, have found an association between obesity in men and infertility.

Bicycling. Bicycling has been linked to impotence in men and also may affect fertility. Pressure from the bike seat may damage blood vessels and nerves that are responsible for erections. Mountain biking, which involves riding on off-road terrain, exposes the perineum (the region between the scrotum and the anus) to more extreme shocks and vibrations and increases the risk for injuries to the scrotum. A study in Austria found that men who mountain bike are far more likely to have scrotal abnormalities, including calcium deposits, cysts, and twisted veins. Men who cycle can reduce such risks by the following:

Taking frequent rests while biking.
Wearing padded bike shorts.
Using a padded or specially contoured bike seat that is raised high enough and sits at the proper angle.
Genetic Factors
Problems in the genes that regulate male fertility and in the genetic material of sperm itself are important contributors to infertility problems in men. In fact, even in men with no known fertility problems, 19% of the sperm are genetically defective. Certain inherited medical conditions also contribute to male infertility. Defective genes themselves can be inherited, produced by environmental assaults (such radiation exposure), or both. Of some concern is the possibility that these mutations will be passed to offspring in men who undergo fertilization techniques that retrieve sperm and directly fertilize the egg. (Under natural conditions, genetically abnormal sperm would be very unlikely to reach and fertilize the egg.)

Defective Genetic Material. Sperm carry half the genetic material necessary to make a human being. Infertile men have been reported to have a relatively high percentage of sperm with broken or damaged DNA (the molecular chain that makes up a gene)."

[PA Democrat]

48. I can assure you that I read all of the latest autism research

And the research does not support the poster's claim that there are structural differences at birth. The autism brain tissue program that has yielded the first look at the brains of people with autism have used the brains of deceased ADULTS and ADOLESCENTS. Infants' brains are not fully developed at birth, so it is possible that the structural differences were manifested after birth rather than before. Personally, I think the jury is still out on this issue.

I was MORE skeptical of the claims of a link between autism and thimerosal in the past, but after reading of the intentional COVER-UP performed by the very people who are supposed to ensure the safety of vaccines, I have a LOT of questions.

I have read claims that the ethyl mercury which is contained in thimerosal is less toxic to the brain than methyl mercury which is found in the environment. But there are a number of studies, the most recent published in April by the NIH that suggest that ethyl mercury is actually MORE toxic to developing brains because it stays in the brain LONGER than methyl mercury.

As the parent of a child with autism, I want answers, and when I see the type of secrecy and collusion at the highest levels of government, I am alarmed. But rather than legislate that ethyl mercury be removed from all vaccines, there are those who prefer to paint parents who have legitimate concerns as anti-vaccine wackos.

[Igel]

15. Correlation is not causation.

It's valuable information as to how to alter your hypothesis for the next set of studies.

It's been done. They've been done.

[Lexingtonian]

23. you evidently aren't aware of what else is known

Causation is proven in biology by testing for correlation, then progressively eliminating pieces of the biological agent responsible for whatever phenomenon you're looking at until you can show the correlation emanates positively from an irreducible and unique set of interactions. In the best cases, molecular interactions.

This is the context for the mercury/autism linkage:

- mercury poisoning illnesses are neurological in children. Minimata Disease was a result of mercury contamination of fish eaten by children past the age where the problem that leads to autism occurs. Mercury poisoning is known to lead to mental retardation. Mental retardation and neurological problems are aspects of autism proper.

So mercury is known to cause a set of the major disorders associated with autism.

In a sense, mercury is not entirely surprising as a cause. The diseases associated with loss of proper dopaminergic nerve system function form a spectrum that includes autism, Tourette Syndrome, obsessive-compulsive disorder, the sporadic tic diseases (Huntington's Disease), and Parkinson's Disease. Mercury and other heavy metal poisons are associated with worsening these conditions, though no deliberate experiment has been done either.

It's just the last piece, getting mercury tightly correlated with the aphasia and behavioral pattern that define autism, that has been missing. A deliberate experiment would be sadly unethical. Autism cannot be properly distinguished in other animals. Some people (Colorado State professor of animal science Temple Grandon, herself autistic but able to speak) believe in fact that other animals are essentially "autistic" relative to human beings in their normal condition.

- vaccines with some preservative other than thimerosal don't have this correlation with autism. So we can eliminate- it's not the viruses, protein, adjuvant, or aqueous solution, leaving truly only the thimerosal. We literally have billion test cases. And the Third World to compare it all to, where children get little or no vaccinations.

- there is a slight possibility that it's all due to the organic component of thimerosal. See http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/CERHRchems/thimerosal.html . But stuff like the salycylic acid component ('aspirin') are well known and the correlation would show mothers who took too much aspirin with children with such problems. But even if so, vaccine containing it amounts to a dose of potential poison and thimerosal is the chemical addent responsible.

- this has just been published in the last few months, but autism rates are higher everywhere in the country where there is higher environmental mercury contamination, generally from industrial wastes going into water supplies and fish, or from coal burning industry emissions.

There isn't a plausible argument around the mercury-autism link at this point.

[Igel]

24. I'm also aware that Hg's been yanked from

nearly every vaccine for the last few years, and that the rates of autism have grown independently.

Again, this doesn't mean that Hg isn't causing it, but it moves the hypothesis from only or predominantly vaccines to one of increasing Hg in the environment, such that the contribution to autism formerly made by vaccines is either swamped and therefore trivial, or was replaced by a sudden increase in Hg exposure.

Not all studies have shown this to be the case: in some, decreased exposure to Hg has been accompanied by increased rates of autism. Some is due to redefining the disease. But not all. These falsify the hypothesis. In another I once looked at, Hg exposure's held essentially constant.

That symptoms of autism are now detectable before the age at which the majority of the vaccines that used to contain Hg were administered also leads one to doubt causation: the null hypothesis is that the time course of autism hasn't significantly changed in the last decade. In that case, causation precedes vaccination, and positing vaccines as the cause of earlier physiological changes is just too unpleasant to seriously ponder as a valid hypothesis.

It's far from proven that Hg causes autism. There are correlations, but many have turned out to be spurious, and the rest that I'm aware of are still at the correlation stage.

[alarimer]

25. You are right

I can't believe the irresponsible journalism at Salon. The case is not proven and NOT vaccinating is far more dangerous to kids. Those diseases were responsible for many, many deaths. We do NOT want to go back to that time. My guess (and it is just that) is that, if mercury is responsible for autism (I am not at all certain that it is) there are many more sources of mercury with higher levels of it (fish for example or air pollution) that the tiny amount in vaccines would make no difference. I cannot believe that people are so willing to believe this crap. They are looking for answers I guess and want someone to blame (preferably the big bad CDC and drug companies). This is simply mass hysteria. People are not scientifically literate in general and causation is very difficult to prove. The only way to get definite proof is to do controlled laboratory experiments which is not possible. You can't deliberately inject kids with mercury to see if it maks them autistic.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Amen

I worry more about the hysteria and parents deciding not to vaccinate than the autism risk.

I am old enough to remember polio. I had friends who had it when I was a child. I know adults my age and older today who still deal with its crippling effects.

All parents of young children (especially DUers) need to watch Warm Springs on HBO. If that doesn't convince them to vaccinate, I don't know what would.

[NoHg]

52. Try this link

www.generationrescue.org

Your facts are backwards, there was much, much more in
vaccines than evironmental exposure.



Oh, but ain't that America, for you and me
Ain't that America, we're somethin' to see, baby
Ain't that America, the home of the CDC
Mercury poisoned children for you and me!

[Lexingtonian]

27. the studies don't sort out well, that's true

But you're basically discounting the value of individual cases that are individually pretty compelling. There are enough of them that they are hard to call spurious. A large scale study, on the other hand, necessarily reflects the sum of the influences. I guess I'm arguing the case that mercury is a particular cause in many cases and you're arguing the epidemiological case that it can't be the overall, or perhaps even major, cause.

There's some middle ground there. My own work is on thalidomide and there are a little under a dozen people identified affected by thalidomide (exposure is proven or known; some have phocomelic damage) who have developed autism. All of them also have a defect of vision known previously and called Moebius Syndrome, iirc based in a defect in the cranial nerve system and nerve structures near the medullar dopaminergic neuron populations. So I'm more than open to a variety of causes.

Still, your variety of reliance on statistical analysis and meta-analyses would have had trouble identifying thalidomide as the cause of the Thalidomide Disaster. It would have identified a correlation of increase in variously severe birth defects with the generalized increase in pharmaceutical drug use of the time, and it wouldn't necessarily have been able to disassociate it strongly enough from its defect spectrum overlap with various other psychopharmaceuticals, the Pill, and alcohol. The retroactive studies showing the drastic decrease in severe defects correlating with banning of thalidomide actually distinguishes out the drug. The data was too flaky at the time for the positive correlation to be identified in the ascent phase. It was the microcorrelation of a few cases early on that mattered a lot. The first mother whose child had anotia (no external ears), in 1958, argued it to her doctor and the formal discovery came from doctors who also took the mothers' ideas of the causes seriously.

I'm perfectly willing to say that many cases of autism, perhaps even most, are due to some other agent. I've even made the bad joke of describing the California epidemic as correlating with Starbucks Coffee. I wasn't even kidding at the time.

I think the thrust of your objections could be accounted for by only slightly broadening the mercury hypothesis, by allowing either a partial substituent or a sensitizing effect due to levels of other neurotoxic bivalent metals. Lead and cadmium and such. In some places these greatly outweigh mercury. Cadmium in particular is grossly understudied and horrifyingly toxic and probably underestimated. In places like central Europe there's probably enough environmental cadmium (their coal contains relatively large amounts of it; ground contamination east of the Ruhr with it from steel industry efflux is disgustingly high) to potentially account for a complete loss of correlation with mercury there. (How sad is that.)

I have to admit I'm more interested in the general molecular and developmental aspects of how it all takes place. Bivalent heavy metal poisoning of calcium-based signalling seems to account for mental retardation and the like neurotoxicity aspects very well. Calcium-based signalling is probably a major mechanism in the neuron proliferation and hard wiring mechanisms that would account for the deficits seen in autism. Mercury is simply very attractive. The glutathione pathway defect seen in autistic people also points toward bivalent heavy metals.

I'm sure a lot of work is being done right now to figure out exactly these sorts of things.

[Demeter]

30. Why Not Link Autism Increase To Increased USe of Marijuana?

IT's far more likely--especially as sperm is generated within hours before conception, and marijuana has mutagenic effects....and the use has sky-rocketted in the past 60 years...

[Lexingtonian]

35. nice lumping

But none of these things is as true as you assert.

If marijuana in whatever form were actually mutagenic to sperm, you'd also see pediatric cancers and other varieties of birth defects- the cleft lip/palate spectrum, finger defects, and heart defects. If marijuana were truly that mutagenic in general it would also be far more carcinogenic to the people eating or smoking the stuff beyond the ways tobacco smoke is. We would know. Hell, the anti-drug crowd wouldn't stop telling us so. If it were far safer than tobacco smoke the pro-legalization people would be telling us so all day long.

There are very few chemicals that, when dumped on bacteria at levels 100x to 10,000x what human cells ever see, don't appear to cause mutations. This is the so-called Ames Test. Caffeine is a mutagen in Ames testing. It isn't carcinogenic in laboratory rats.

Pot smoking is endemic, and 'cultural' if you will, to the Ohio Valley and parts of the Great Lakes. Indians there mixed wild tobacco with hemp leaves and called the result kinnikinnik, and smoked it. It was only very mildly hallucinogenic compared to today's stuff. But the habit stuck. People who made rope from hemp used to chew hemp while they worked. If their kids had more birth defects than other groups' kids, we would have known about it long ago.

I'm feeling too tired to go look up sperm maturation times in my textbooks. But I think average lifetime before reabsorption is something like two weeks and the maturation process from germ cell splitoff to mature spermatozoan is something like two days. Not that it matters.

I'm sorry to read about your situation in that other post of yours. I'm sorry I'm a little blythe in my arguments, it just frustrates me to see people think that something as important as the controversial mercury-autism linkage to be cleanly decided in favor of one side or the other when it isn't. It's little like the idea that all cancer is due to cigarettes- both sides have strong arguments for the absolute form of their theory and problems, and they miss the point of greater importance, that a smaller theory- tying some amount of cancer to some cigarette smoking- is the real discovery.

The great authority in everything autism is someone named Isabelle Rapin, and this seems to be her latest review-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15121991&query_hl=1

[K-W]

40. Because if you did the research you would find that you were wrong.

You would have to show that users have a higher rate of having children born with autism, I doubt you would find that.

Kennedy isnt simply relying on chronological corrollations he discusses studies that were supressed.

[earth mom]

17. Why am I not surprised that they've been trying to cover it up?

Where's mopauls "I told you so" car?!

Gawd! This just torques my ass but I knew it all along anyway. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Scare tactics, exploitation and profit mongering are what has gotten these pharma giants more riches while innocent children have been harmed-FOR LIFE-while they figure a way to cover it up!

THEY ARE TOTAL SCUM OF THE EARTH!!! :puke: :puke: :puke:

BTW-Anyone who argues the pharma giants side especially in light of this new evidence of a cover up should be ashamed of themselves for their rethuglian, freeperish behavior! :grr:

[earth mom]

19. Here's evidence of the rise in Autism:

From the Salon article:

"Before 1989, American preschoolers received only three vaccinations -- for polio, diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis and measles-mumps-rubella. A decade later, thanks to federal recommendations, children were receiving a total of 22 immunizations by the time they reached first grade.

As the number of vaccines increased, the rate of autism among children exploded. During the 1990s, 40 million children were injected with thimerosal-based vaccines, receiving unprecedented levels of mercury during a period critical for brain development. Despite the well-documented dangers of thimerosal, it appears that no one bothered to add up the cumulative dose of mercury that children would receive from the mandated vaccines." :cry:

And these BASTARDS didn't give a F*CK! :grr:

[earth mom]

21. A Moral Crisis & The Biggest Scandal in the Annals of American Medicine

Robert F Kennedy Jr: I devoted time to study this issue because I believe that this is a moral crisis that must be addressed. If, as the evidence suggests, our public-health authorities knowingly allowed the pharmaceutical industry to poison an entire generation of American children, their actions arguably constitute one of the biggest scandals in the annals of American medicine.

Robert F Kennedy Jr: Thank you for exposing these bastards! :yourock:

[WoodrowFan]

22. the Danish study pretty much destroyed this foolishness

frankly anybody who still believes this nonsense it ranks with creationists in terms of logic and anyone who doesn't vaccaniate their child because of this is an idiot.

[mccoyn]

41. Do you have a link to that study?

All I've seen is the Salon article and the one about it being blocked on ABC. With that information it looks true, but I would hardly consider myself educated on the issue.

Do you have a reference to this Danish article I can look at?

[glitch]

26. The pharmaceutical industry sure has a lot of defenders here on DU

whether it's thimerosol or aspartame. More so than other big industries. It must warm their hearts so. And since their defense tends towards ridicule, I think I'll stick with the unbiased science.

You know, the science done by the scientists that don't stand to benefit from the results of their studies.

[depakid]

28. It's not PhARMA that people are defending-

It's epidemiology- and while sensible people support things like "the precautionary priniciple" and full disclosure- it's a big leap- and and a dangerous one- to jump conclusions that the evidence doesn't warrant.

It's just like in law- if you convict someone for a crime that they didn't commit- even if you know they're a "bad guy," the real perpetrator is still out there on the streets....

[glitch]

29. Usually I agree with you depakid. Not this time. People have a lot of

studies to choose from, very excellent ones with solid evidence.

The law analogy works both ways; defenders aren't simply refusing to convict, they are acquitting, and ridiculing the questioners.

[LuPeRcALiO]

34. better safe than sorry

it took a while to figure out that lead-based paint was a problem, too.

[robbob]

53. Deadly Immunity (Autism/Vaccine link: Salon Exclusive)

Sorry don't know if anyone else thinks this belongs in LBN, but I do! As the author points out, the deliberate effort of bushCo and the FCC to cover up recent studies proving a link between child vaccines laced with mercury and the onset of autism could be the medical malfeasance story of the century, or as the article concludes:

<snip>
"The CDC is guilty of incompetence and gross negligence," says Mark Blaxill, vice president of Safe Minds, a nonprofit organization concerned about the role of mercury in medicines. "The damage caused by vaccine exposure is massive. It's bigger than asbestos, bigger than tobacco, bigger than anything you've ever seen." It's hard to calculate the damage to our country -- and to the international efforts to eradicate epidemic diseases -- if Third World nations come to believe that America's most heralded foreign-aid initiative is poisoning their children. It's not difficult to predict how this scenario will be interpreted by America's enemies abroad. The scientists and researchers -- many of them sincere, even idealistic -- who are participating in efforts to hide the science on thimerosal claim that they are trying to advance the lofty goal of protecting children in developing nations from disease pandemics. They are badly misguided. Their failure to come clean on thimerosal will come back horribly to haunt our country and the world's poorest populations.

<snip>


...only time will tell, but I searched on Yahoo for stories about this issue and came up with nothing. So either Salon has a first (again), or this is old news and the mainstream media just isn't interested.

You never know. Maybe if Americans realize their own government is complicate in killing their own children (rather then just "ragheads" over in Iraq) they will finally sit up and pay attention.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. They have been trying to connect

thimerosal to autism for about 15 years now. Researchers can't find a connection. And it's not just American scientists. The most recent study I read was about 6 months ago and it was conducted in Europe.

[sendero]

57. My wife...

... has done EXTENSIVE research on this and she'd disagree with you vehemently. And she's nobody's fool. I don't feel like getting links, but believe me the smoking guns are all over the place INCLUDING the fact that congress was willing to pass legislation absolving the vaccine makers of liability.

Not something they would need if there was no science pointing in their direction.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. That doesn't explain the findings

or I should say the lack of findings by the European scientists.

I have followed this pretty closely. I am a special ed teacher. I want them to find a connection to explain the increase in autism. But there just isn't credible research YET.

I tend to believe parents who noticed a marked change in their children after they were vaccinated. I also think it is telling that many drug makers are removing thimerosol from their vaccines. So I do believe there is a smoking gun out there. The trick is to find it and make sure it is irrefutable.

[stickdog]

82. The trick is to publicize this and shame them into stop forcing us to

inject ourselves and our children with high concentrations of deadly poison.

The full article w/o adds or registration:

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/printer_061605HA.shtml

[emcguffie]

75. I think you're wrong there.

There is science, but they have been covering that up.

And there is some indication that children that develop autism are deficient in glutathione, which helps clear mercury out of your system. So perhaps these kids, deficient of glutathione to begin with, are thus more susceptible to the small amount of mercury in the vaccine.

If I have it right, that is. This is what I recall.

[bleedingheart]

55. i don't know...it is worth looking into but there are many ways

to be exposed to mercury...which is why pregnant women are warned to stay away from seafood for instance.

[Junkdrawer]

56. Written by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (BTW: Here's the link:)

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/06/16/thimerosal/index.html

[mom cat]

67. With pharmaceutical companies like this, who needs terrorists!

[Junkdrawer]

68. The point of the article seems to be: Faced with evidence...

that thimerosal probably causes neurological problems, the drug companies didn't pull the preservative until definitive studies were done, they moved, and moved quickly, to suppress the evidence and cover their asses.

They should rot in Hell.

[shimmergal]

58. Does anyone personally know someone

whose autistic child has had the chelation therapy to counter the mercury? If so, did it work? I've kinda been following this for some time because I have an autistic granddaughter. Well-backed personal accounts would be welcome.

[Corgigal]

59. actually have an appt with the doctor tomorrow

to consider chelation therapy for my 13 year old son who has central auditory disorder. Still not sure I'm going to make him go through it, I'm leery of medicine right now.

[TrogL]

65. Don't waste your money

The autism->mercury link is unproven.

Chelation is unproven.

You cannot cure autism.

I have central auditory processing problems. It's in the wiring. Chemicals cannot change wiring.

[Corgigal]

66. still not sure

chemicals carry the signals through the wiring. Don't get me wrong, you might be correct but I do believe in the thimerosal link. I don't know what age you are, but my 13 year old went through all those shots. My 23 year old daughter didn't. I owe my son the best we can do for him.

I never heard of the treatment harming anyone and I've been researching.

[NoHg]

90. Try this link

www.generationrescue.org


Oh, but ain't that America, for you and me
Ain't that America, we're somethin' to see, baby
Ain't that America, the home of the CDC
Mercury poisoned children for you and me!

[newyawker99]

91. Hi NoHg!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[NoHg]

92. Thank you, thank you very much!

We're oraganized.

www.generationrescue.org


P.S. I used to be a republican and have pulled myself out of the
slime....

[Junkdrawer]

60. Looks Like we're exporting autism now...

...

At the state level, many officials have also conducted in-depth reviews of thimerosal. While the Institute of Medicine was busy whitewashing the risks, the Iowa Legislature was carefully combing through all of the available scientific and biological data. "After three years of review, I became convinced there was sufficient credible research to show a link between mercury and the increased incidences in autism," says state Sen. Ken Veenstra, a Republican who oversaw the investigation. "The fact that Iowa's 700 percent increase in autism began in the 1990s, right after more and more vaccines were added to the children's vaccine schedules, is solid evidence alone." Last year, Iowa became the first state to ban mercury in vaccines, followed by California. Similar bans are now under consideration in 32 other states.

But instead of following suit, the FDA continues to allow manufacturers to include thimerosal in scores of over-the-counter medications as well as steroids and injected collagen. Even more alarming, the government continues to ship vaccines preserved with thimerosal to developing countries -- some of which are now experiencing a sudden explosion in autism rates. In China, where the disease was virtually unknown prior to the introduction of thimerosal by U.S. drug manufacturers in 1999, news reports indicate that there are now more than 1.8 million autistics. Although reliable numbers are hard to come by, autistic disorders also appear to be soaring in India, Argentina, Nicaragua and other developing countries that are now using thimerosal-laced vaccines. The World Health Organization continues to insist thimerosal is safe, but it promises to keep the possibility that it is linked to neurological disorders "under review."

[markam]

61. This is total BS

The only reason that autism rates are higher now is that it was not diagnosed, or diagnosed as mental retardation until just recently.

Mercury is an issue, but you are exposed to billions of times more mercury from the environment compared to vacines.

If you want to go back to the days of polio, feel free to skip vacinations. Just stay the hell away from me and my kids.

[Junkdrawer]

62. From the opening paragraphs...

In June 2000, a group of top government scientists and health officials gathered for a meeting at the isolated Simpsonwood conference center in Norcross, Ga. Convened by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the meeting was held at this Methodist retreat center, nestled in wooded farmland next to the Chattahoochee River, to ensure complete secrecy. The agency had issued no public announcement of the session -- only private invitations to 52 attendees. There were high-level officials from the CDC and the Food and Drug Administration, the top vaccine specialist from the World Health Organization in Geneva, and representatives of every major vaccine manufacturer, including GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Wyeth and Aventis Pasteur. All of the scientific data under discussion, CDC officials repeatedly reminded the participants, was strictly "embargoed." There would be no making photocopies of documents, no taking papers with them when they left.

The federal officials and industry representatives had assembled to discuss a disturbing new study that raised alarming questions about the safety of a host of common childhood vaccines administered to infants and young children. According to a CDC epidemiologist named Tom Verstraeten, who had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines -- thimerosal -- appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten told those assembled at Simpsonwood, citing the staggering number of earlier studies that indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism. Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.


Even for scientists and doctors accustomed to confronting issues of life and death, the findings were frightening. "You can play with this all you want," Dr. Bill Weil, a consultant for the American Academy of Pediatrics, told the group. The results "are statistically significant." Dr. Richard Johnston, an immunologist and pediatrician from the University of Colorado whose grandson had been born early on the morning of the meeting's first day, was even more alarmed. "My gut feeling?" he said. "Forgive this personal comment -- I do not want my grandson to get a thimerosal-containing vaccine until we know better what is going on."

....

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Good points

But be prepared to be questioned here. And I don't think it's the polio vaccine that is thought to be harmful, but the MMR.

Can't they remove the mercury from the vaccines? I know I have read that they are doing that already.

Welcome to DU :hi:

[Chan790]

69. Why don't they remove the mercury?

Can't they remove the mercury from the vaccines? I know I have read that they are doing that already.

Not so much a matter of can't, it's a matter of not cost-effective for pharmacutical makers to remove. Remember the recall explanation from Fight Club:

A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. - "Jack"

Same principle at work. Pretty sick IMO.

[Gelliebeans]

70. yes I believe I heard

it was MMR too. They tried to link it to Crohns disease and found no link as of yet. Several studies including those in Britian and Finland could not come up with a link as far as Crohns is concerned.

edited for puncuation oops

[muriel_volestrangler]

77. MMR vaccine in the UK never contained thimerosal

But one doctor (Andrew Wakefield) and his supporters have blamed it for the increase in autism. Very few doctors or scientists support his theory now.

This is the strange situation: in the UK and USA, entirely different vaccines are blamed for the same condition, for completely different reasons.

In the UK, the National Autism Society says the causes of autism are still unknown, but wants the removal of thiomersal as a precuation:

The causes of autism are currently, for the most part, unknown. 90% of cases are idiopathic (of unknown cause). Present knowledge suggests that autism is a strongly, but not wholly, genetic condition (Lamb et al 2000). It is thought to be a multigenic (more than one gene) condition (Turner, Barnby and Bailey 2000). It is likely that environmental factors also play a part in autism. What these environmental factors are is unclear. For this reason a number of candidates have been suggested, including the MMR vaccine and, more recently, mercury. Whilst these might be plausible suggestions there is, as yet, no sound scientific evidence to link autism with mercury. However, Geier and Geier (2003) suggest that there is strong epidemiological evidence for a link between increasing mercury from thiomersal-containing vaccines and neurodevelopmental disorders and heart disease. They argue for the immediate and complete removal of thiomersal from all childhood vaccines.

[mom cat]

74. The mercury NEVER NEEDED TO BE ADDED! It is a cheap

preservative thatmakes it easy for pharmacutical companies to produce multi-dose vials for repeated needle sticks. Single dose vials do not need a preservative. So all of these children are suffering just to save a penny here and there!
I have been watching my neighbor struggle to raise a child with neurological issues and it has been heart breaking. To think that the suffering was the result of greed has me in a blind rage!

[earth mom]

71. You are completely wrong.

Did you even read the article? I think not.

From the article:

Before 1989, American preschoolers received only three vaccinations -- for polio, diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis and measles-mumps-rubella. A decade later, thanks to federal recommendations, children were receiving a total of 22 immunizations by the time they reached first grade.

As the number of vaccines increased, the rate of autism among children exploded. During the 1990s, 40 million children were injected with thimerosal-based vaccines, receiving unprecedented levels of mercury during a period critical for brain development.

and

"If the epidemic is truly an artifact of poor diagnosis," scoffs Dr. Boyd Haley, one of the world's authorities on mercury toxicity, "then where are all the 20-year-old autistics?"

Now, let's see...YOUR childs health comes BEFORE everyone elses' childs health...now isn't that special? :sarcasm:

[phylny]

72. I don't agree

that the only reason for the rising rate if autism is diagnosis. If that were the case, we all would have known (or known of) the same number of kids with "mental retardation" way back when. It just doesn't add up.

I know so many families who have one or more children with PDD/Autism/Aspergers nowadays, and knew of ONE family growing up (I'm 47) who had a daughter with mental retardation. The daughter was institutionalized, and I never met her. The numbers don't add up.

Now, I'm a proponent of vaccination. Our daughters were vaccinated beginning in 1985, and they have no neurological deficits or problems of any sort. However, it's possible that our genes aren't susceptible to this in any event. The fact remains that honest researchers should never, ever, bow to pressure to suppress science. If that's what's happened, shame on them.

[mom cat]

73. This isn't about not vaccinating, it is about the safety of the

preservative.The environmental mercury levels are also too high....and for the same reason - greedy politicians who do not care about your health.

[stickdog]

79. Great suggestion, markam! I'm taking the kids down for a full suite of

mercury injections ASAP! From now on, it's only fluoridated formula for them as well. And once they get a little older, I'll teach them how to snort a little bleach to clean their lungs.

[markam]

83. Info from the CDC

Why in gods name would you want to risk your childs health? Because you are concerned about mercury, which isn't even in vacinations anymore.

Before polio vaccine was available, 13,000 to 20,000 cases of paralytic polio were reported each year in the United States

An average of 450 measles-associated deaths were reported each year between 1953 and 1963.

Hib was the most common cause of bacterial meningitis in U.S. infants and children. Before the vaccine was developed, there were approximately 20,000 invasive Hib cases annually. Approximately two-thirds of the 20,000 cases were meningitis, and one-third were other life-threatening invasive Hib diseases such as bacteria in the blood, pneumonia, or inflammation of the epiglottis. About one of every 200 U.S. children under 5 years of age got an invasive Hib disease. Hib meningitis once killed 600 children each year and left many survivors with deafness, seizures, or mental retardation.

Before pertussis immunizations were available, nearly all children developed whooping cough. In the U.S., prior to pertussis immunization, between 150,000 and 260,000 cases of pertussis were reported each year, with up to 9,000 pertussis-related deaths.

In 1964-1965, before rubella immunization was used routinely in the U.S., there was an epidemic of rubella that resulted in an estimated 20,000 infants born with CRS, with 2,100 neonatal deaths and 11,250 miscarriages. Of the 20,000 infants born with CRS, 11,600 were deaf, 3,580 were blind, and 1,800 were mentally retarded

Prior to the licensing of chickenpox vaccine in 1995, almost all persons in the U.S. had suffered from chickenpox by adulthood. An estimated 4 million cases of chickenpox occurred annually, resulting in 11,000 hospitalizations and 100 deaths

Infants and children who become infected with hepatitis B virus are at highest risk of developing lifelong infection, which often leads to death from liver disease (cirrhosis) and liver cancer. Approximately 25 percent of children who become infected with life-long hepatitis B virus would be expected to die of related liver disease as adults.

In the 1920's, diphtheria was a major cause of illness and death for children in the U.S. In 1921, a total of 206,000 cases and 15,520 deaths were reported. With vaccine development in 1923, new cases of diphtheria began to fall in the U.S., until in 2001 only two cases were reported

Worldwide, tetanus in newborn infants continues to be a huge problem. Every year tetanus kills 300,000 newborns and 30,000 birth mothers who were not properly vaccinated. Even though the number of reported cases is low, an increased number of tetanus cases in younger persons has been observed recently in the U.S. among intravenous drug users, particularly heroin users

Before the mumps vaccine was introduced, mumps was a major cause of deafness in children, occurring in approximately 1 in 20,000 reported cases

[stickdog]

84. Yes, vaccines often save lives. But why do many of them still have poison

in them? Why don't I get to know EXACTLY what's in and what's not in the needles I'm having my kids injected with?

I mean, packaged foods, vitamins and herbs have to list their ingredients. Organic foods have to follow certain standards. So why aren't we allowed to know EXACTLY what's in the products that we are forcing into our children's veins? And why do we allow some of these products to be preserved with substances that we all agree are highly toxic at best? What are the public benefits of these policies?

This controversy is almost EXACTLY like asbestos. We still are digging highly toxic mineral fibers (and other substances contaminated with these dangerous fibers) out of the ground and putting them in a wide range of household products -- from brake pads to potting soil to crayons to baby powder. Why exactly are we allowing this to happen without so much as even warning consumers about it?

[lovuian]

76. Parents are now refusing to immunize their children

My question is have they removed the thimerosal yet!!!

cause if they haven't I would suggest not immunizing!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. That is scarier than the risks of vaccinating, IMO

Polio is devastating and causes life long disabilities.

Measles can kill. My sister nearly lost her eyesight to measles.

People younger than 45 or 50 can't remember the devastating effects of some of these childhood diseases. 100 years ago, most families expected to lose at least one child to a horrible disease. I don't want to revert back to that.

[stickdog]

80. So that's the choice, measles or autism?

How about just removing any and all forms of debilitating poison from all vaccines? What the fuck is anything with mercury doing in these vaccines, anyway?

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. Measles, polio, whooping cough, mumps, and other diseases

which lead to blindness, heart problems, paralysis or death.

For that I would be willing to have my kids vaccinated.

[stickdog]

88. We all received THREE mandated vaccinations. Now, TWENTY TWO are

mandated.

Given the conflicts of interest inherent when the experts who do the mandating typically earn income from the pharma-giants who profit, don't you think it's NEGLIGENT to take the experts' "don't worry, this won't hurt a bit" reassurances at face value?

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. Yes I do

but I think it's far more negligent to risk your child getting one of these preventable diseases.

[PA Democrat]

86. Vaccine manufacturers have been voluntarily removing thimerosal

for a number of years. Parents SHOULD have their children vaccinated, but make sure that the vaccine is not older stock that still contains thimerosal. It makes me angry that this was not done sooner because parents should never have been put in the position where they question the safety of their children's immunizations.

[stickdog]

81. All of you pro-vaccine naysayers need to read the damn article!

I'd suggest that you get acquainted with the facts before deciding that these dangerous vaccines are wonderful:

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/printer_061605HA.shtml

[PA Democrat]

85. Agreed! There has been a cover-up at the highest levels of government.

Something really stinks here. Vaccine manufacturers have been quietly removing thimerosal from vaccines on a VOLUNTARY basis. Why wasn't this MANDATED by the government as it has been in other countries? Why all the secrecy?