Three Boys Die in Fire Caused by Stove Left on for Passover - NYT

[Burma Jones]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/26/nyregion/26fire.html

<snip>
A fire official said that the Orthodox Jewish custom of leaving a flame burning during Sabbath and holidays has caused 35 kitchen fires at Bedford Gardens, the 600-unit apartment complex in Williamsburg, in the last several months.

Judaic law prohibits any work on days of rest, including lighting or extinguishing a flame, a rule many families deal with by leaving fires burning so they can heat food when it is needed. This year, Passover began at sundown on Saturday, as the weekly Sabbath was ending, so many stoves were left burning for days. The Matyas family told fire marshals that they had at least two burners lighted continuously since Friday, a fire official said.

<snip>


Can some of you understand why some of us have a real distaste for religion?

[gWbush is Mabus]

1. somebody email this to Bill Maher

[Demit]

2. What I understand is you making a stretch here unnecessarily

Here's the story: "Three Boys Die in Fire Caused by Stove Left on".

The fire official could--and should--have said that leaving a flame burning AND NEGLECTING TO MONITOR IT has caused these kitchen fires. But both he and you need to editorialize about religion, and so you do. That's what I understand.

[Richard D]

3. The fires . . .

. . . are left on 24 hours. From before sun-down on Friday night, to just after sunset on Saturday night.

[aeolian]

4. If it had not been passover, the stove would not have been left on,

ergo: the stove was left on for passover.

...where's the problem again?

[Demit]

5. Do a mental exercise. Think of a Christmas tree with electric lights

Then imagine a fire resulting from the faulty lights, and 3 people perishing therein. Is our response to the story that had it not been Christmas, no one would have died? And do we bemoan religion for causing such things? No we don't. We say you have to be careful with things that can cause fires.

[Burma Jones]

6. No religion requires you to have a christmas tree

There is no requirement that you leave it on 24 hours a day. What I see is that three people are dead and many more put at risk because of religious practices. Suppose you say that they have to tend the fires, well, that's work and they wouldn't do it.....

This article is an example of harm caused by bizarre behaviour, not carelessness or stupidity.

[Demit]

7. And the Jewish faith does not require that you leave the stove on, either.

The article is an example of harm caused both by the desire to avoid the inconvenience of having no hot food for 24 hours and by carelessness (the wall behind the stove was wood panelling).

Religion didn't cause this fire. Foolhardy behavior did. This tragedy is something that didn't have to happen, but did, because people aren't careful enough with things that can cause fires.

[Burma Jones]

8. Religion is often the cause (and cure) of foolhardy behavior

All I can say is that if they were Reform or Conservative or RC or Anglican or Zoroasters, they would have turned off the stove.

I am no fan of Orthodox Judiasm, Orthodox Presbyterianism, Orthodox Liberalism, Orthodox any-ism. Perhaps we can agree that orthodoxy is the problem and not religion. If that is the case, I should have perhaps said that some of us have a problem with orthodoxy, or other forms of fundamentalism.......

[Demit]

9. I'm not religious at all. Or, more precisely, a fan of organized religion.

But lots of things are the cause of foolhardy behavior. I was thinking this, and thinking about typing it as part of my one of my answers, that if all Orthodox Jews left the stove on and all stoves left on resulted in fatal fires, well then, we wouldn't have any Orthodox Jews left! They all would have been wiped out last Passover!

I agree wholeheartedly that religion--organized religion--is the cause of many ills in this world. I do agree that the uses it is put to has led to untold tragedy and horror throughout the ages. We are certainly in agreement on that. Peace.

[ikojo]

11. It's just not going without warm food for 24 hours...this family

had they not left the stove on beginning at sundown Friday evening would not have had hot food until Monday evening. For the orthodox the first two days of Pesach are work prohibitive days, meaning no work can be done; thus the stove was left on. I don't agree with it but that's what they believe.

Some orthodox Jews hire non Jews to do things they cannot do on Shabbos. Considering this family are Satmar Hasidim, they may not have the money to pay people to do prohibited things for them.

[ikojo]

10. The stove would not have been left on for THREE days if

Pesach had not come immediately following the Jewish Sabbath. I have orthodox friends and they leave their stove on for the Sabbath and holidays, but it is MONITORED.