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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-05 10:06 PM
Original message
Dissenting Iraq War Veterans Speak Out.
‘That’s me, a marine, a murderer of civilians’

The following interview of U.S. Marine Jimmy Massey by Patrizio Lombroso of Il Manifesto appeared the day before Giuliana Sgrena was released and shot. It’s an interview not calculated to win love and friendship in official Washington circles.

‘Yo, un marine asesino de civiles’ (‘That’s me, a marine, a murderer of civilians’)

“I’ve seen the horror that we were causing every day in Iraq. I have been part of it. We are all just murderers.

“We kill innocent Iraqi civilians all the time. That’s the way it is. I believe they need to withdraw all foreign military troops in Iraq right away. And I say this about other soldiers: to avoid punishment or reprisals by the military, they don’t want to talk and admit that killing terrorists is not our mission. It’s to kill innocent civilians.”

more@link

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American Style Democracy in Iraq -- Arrogance?

Jason N. Thelen, Veterans for Common Sense -- Guest Column

Corruption is rampant in the fledgling government. We train the leaders in ethics and their responsibilities to the people, and they understand the abstract notions. Yet, they do not see their illegal actions as “wrong”. Nepotism is the rule, rather than the exception. Taking kickbacks for awarding a government contract is expected, not unethical. If you can profit from your government job, then that is simply a fringe benefit, like free coffee at the office.

Example: Sadr City is a dank, dirty slum that was built to hold 750,000 people. It now has 2.5 million. Sewage literally flows through the streets because the underground lines are filled with dead animals, trash, and anything else that needs to be “out of sight, out of mind.” One street, dubbed “Route Silver” by the Army, typically had 18-24 inches of sewage across the road. In the winter between 2003 and 2004, each of the 100 neighborhoods in Sadr City was allocated $10,000 to spend on a project that would improve their conditions. Each of the eight neighborhood councils in Sadr City had the ability to decide where that money would be spent, and we could produce the cash to pay contractors upon their submission of a 1-2 page project proposal. The Ishbilia neighborhood council insisted that they needed ten soccer fields. Forget the sewage, ignore the lack of clean water, and the scarcity of medical supplies be damned. They wanted to spend all the money on soccer fields. I finally discovered that the standard contractor kickback system returned a much higher dollar amount back to the council if they built soccer fields, which was entirely a labor endeavor. If they bought tangible items, such as medical supplies or school books, the council received fairly little money. Hence, a soccer field on every block. When I convinced them to submit a proposal to distribute medical supplies, the doctor on the council championed the idea. He then sold the supplies out of his clinic.

Many Iraqis are strongly religious, which is not wrong in and of itself. But, their religious fervor often leads to a lack of tolerance and even hate for opposing religions and views. When leaders mock and revile those different from themselves, the democracy is unstable and devolves into violence. It also causes harsh resistance to female participation in government. I personally witnessed serious intimidation and threats aimed at women that wished to be involved in the fledgling government. Some had the courage to stay involved, but most withdrew in fear for their safety. Others were simply killed. Recently, anti-Shiite violence has become a problem, with their opponents bombing mosques and religious gatherings.

The men and women I worked with grasped the idea of democracy, but most of them were looking to increase their own personal power and advance their own agendas. For example, one council member decided that distribution of propane cylinders to his constituents could be handled more effectively if he commandeered the delivery trucks and oversaw the rationing personally. Out of his own house. At double the maximum price set by the Ministry of Oil. Of course, that extra money was “for his troubles.”

more@link
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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-05 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Saw him yesterday at Cornell
One thing in particular struck me. In Q&A someone asked if other troops felt as he did and he said "Yes, but it is a minority. Most enjoy what they are doing." He said alot more it was a somber discussion and he made it clear that civilians are being blown away randomly and oh yeah he said "There is no enemy". Verbatim. And his platoon was on the "front line". He wasn't speaking metaphorically. His life has been threatened.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. This is really disturbing

"In Q&A someone asked if other troops felt as he did and he said "Yes, but it is a minority. Most enjoy what they are doing."

I wish him well he's going to draw an awful lot of bullshit from the my Country right or wrong flag suckers.
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Jersey Ginny Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Chilling
The marines tale is simply chilling. And then you put the story together with the shooting of the Italian reporter. Wow. I sent the link around to as many peole as I could. It is a story that needs to be read. Thanks.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. I hope more troops are brave enough to speak out
“We killed more than 30 people. That was the first time that I had to face up to the horror that my hands were soiled with the blood of civilians. We laid down cluster bombs on them. The people fled, and when they arrived at the control points we had set up with armed convoys, I was supposed to shoot the ones that looked like they belonged to ‘terrorist groups.’ Those were the directions military intelligence gave us.”

“And that’s what you all did?”

“We ended up massacring innocent civilians – men, women, and children.
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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. A Breeding Ground for Tyrants-Here is a Short Article Re:Realities in Iraq
Here are a few snips:

March 10, 2005

The irritating sound of a ringing phone brought me roughly back to reality. I had been lost in the serenity of the snow-covered peaks of the La Plata and San Juan Mountains of Southern Colorado. At first, there was no immediate response to my hello. I thought it a call from a telemarketer, but after the pause, was delighted to hear the voice of a damn good soldier I have known for over two decades, who is on his second tour in Iraq. His response to my question of what was going on over there now, still assaults my conscience: "Well, this morning our unit went out and shot up a bunch of civilians and our commander is writing it up as a great military victory."

This is not the first report of unacceptable military and civilian leadership < http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/04/05/26/gaddy.htm > as it pertains to the war in Iraq I have received from this soldier. He continued telling me of the insane actions of his commander: "He has a whole new definition of ‘recon-by-fire;’ he picks out a building in our area of operations, then tells his soldiers to ‘fire it up.’ It makes no difference we have no Intel of enemy activity, nor have we received any enemy fire from that building. His purpose is to continue to shoot into buildings until someone shoots back."

When asked what was the reaction by most of the soldiers in this unit to such actions by their commander, I was told there are basically two types of soldiers in most units. There are the career guys who have more than a decade invested and have seen so many commanders like this they believe them to be the norm rather than the exception. Then, there are the young soldiers who have fallen for the line about killing as many of these "rag heads" as possible because of 9/11 and protecting "the folks back home." Soldiers, who see this war for what it is and voice those thoughts, are reported up the line as malcontents and enemy sympathizers. The vast majority of soldiers would rather live through the lies and atrocities than be labeled a traitor and the ramifications of that label once they return home. So, many just hope to survive and get the hell out of the military and away from the madmen who lead them.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m10340
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. So if you value life and property the way 'christians' are supposed to, yo
Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 06:56 PM by higher class
you are labeled "malcontents and enemy sympathizers".

Reminder, this is a military-corporate-banking-media-politican driven killing spree with part of our citizens who are on the ground directing it and the others as innocent as those they are killing.

Yes...save the fetuses so they can grow up to kill like these kids.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I do believe the outrageous rotations
are designed to kill as MANY potential truth-tellers as possible. :cry:
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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. KICK
:kick:

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American in Asia Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. The horror of it just takes your breath away, doesn't it? (n/t)
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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. War Crimes
Very Disturbing. We are too apathetic and therefore complicit.



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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Hi American in Asia!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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American in Asia Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thanks!!!
Always nice to be welcomed in from the cold! :-)
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kick...
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. kick
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