Some Shoppers Find Fewer Happy Returns

[bleedingheart]

"Some Shoppers Find Fewer Happy Returns
Databases Limit 'Excessive' Exchanges

By Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 7, 2004; Page A01

Darlene Salerno considers herself a loyal customer of the Express clothing chain, shelling out roughly $2,000 for its trendy outfits each year for the past decade. On a recent shopping trip, she bought a tank top, a button-down shirt and some khaki pants, but realized when she got home that she had similar items in her closet. So a few days later she took them back to the store. She presented the items, the receipt and waited for her money.

Instead, the saleswoman handed her a slip of paper that said "RETURN DECLINED" and told her to call the toll-free number at the bottom for more information. She phoned and was informed her account showed "excessive" returns.



KB Toys is among the national retailers rolling out electronic systems that track shopping history to decide if a consumer should be granted a return.
As the holiday shopping season gets into full swing, a number of major retailers -- including KB Toys and Sports Authority, according to store personnel -- are rolling out electronic systems that weigh the number of returns and exchanges a person has made, the dollar value of the items, and the dates of the transactions to decide whether a consumer should be granted another. The systems are designed to catch shoplifters and those who "wardrobe," wearing clothes and then returning them for a full refund. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30908-2004Nov6.html?sub=new


My oh my...better be careful...you may get stuck paying for stuff Joe and Susie Consumer. The customer is always right ...is now out of date!
There are many people out there I know who are going to get burned by this practice if it becomes the standard.

[Moderator]

1. need a link please

post a link to the story please

[bleedingheart]

4. sorry...I re-edited it..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30908-2004Nov6.html?sub=new

[Moderator]

2. link

went to google and got it for you

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30908-2004Nov6.html

[bleedingheart]

5. thanks! ...

baking turnovers in oven...got carried away..

[SoCalDem]

3. Pay cash..

and if you have returned things before,you could use a friend's name and address:)

That woman should write a letter to the HQ, and tell they why she will NOT be spening $2K at their store NEXT year.

[bleedingheart]

6. I was shocked by that figure alone...$2K a year

at one store...

[shanti]

24. when you return things

they usually ask for id, so putting a friends info down won't work.

[SoCalDem]

40. Curses, foiled again..

I rarely return things.. (I have lots of stuff in my closet with tags attached) :(.. I usually just give them to a friend.. I hate to return stuff :)

[pinerow]

7. I know people who buy stuff...use it once, then return it....that is a bit

tacky also.

[bleedingheart]

9. yeah that happens but should we all be "monitored" because of

a few bad apples?

[havocmom]

13. Had a wealthy, prominent-citizen type customer who did this with evening

clothes all the time. She would spend weeks looking at the same gown over and over, bring her daughter in to see it, finally buy it on a Thursday and return it on a Monday, with evidence it had been to a party. She always denied it.

One party was a big fund raiser (GOP candidate, if memory serves) and there were pictures in the paper. Heh heh, I had that paper waiting at the shop come Monday AM.

It happens more than you would think. There are also groups who do 'grab & run' attacks in department stores, then dupe old ladies or other respectable looking types into returning stuff for them. With computerized inventory systems, even big chains know when each size of each item was sold, and at which store in an area. I busted a gang working in AZ that way. They were 20-30-something-ish young men from a nation where al Queda is known to hide and we have troops looking. This was some years back, so the local police blew it off when we suggested it might warrant a bit of investigation to find out what these young men were supporting with the money they were making.

Yes, it is annoying that merchants treat customers badly now, but there is a history behind it which leads me to believe that the new policies are not all just due to corporate greed.

[amazona]

16. here you can only return evening clothes w tags on

In my area, you can't do this. Evening clothes are only accepted for returns if the tags are in place. Been that way for 20 years.

There are also groups who do 'grab & run' attacks in department stores, then dupe old ladies or other respectable looking types into returning stuff for them. With computerized inventory systems, even big chains know when each size of each item was sold, and at which store in an area. I busted a gang working in AZ that way.

This is something that does happen down here. I used to think that shoplifters were the cliche, you know, lonely middle-aged ladies who needed attention or broke teen-agers. But there seem to be professionals who actually have crews that shoplift items and return them for cash. Now all of our stores have gone in the last year or two to a system where, if you return an item without the receipt, you can't get cash, only a gift card -- AND you only get the lowest sale price posted in the computer over the last 90 days. No more returning an item you bought on sale and then returning it for full price when the sale is over using the excuse of a lost receipt.

About 8 years ago, I actually did this once not on purpose but because I actually misplaced the receipt and was surprised when I got back $60 instead of the $15 I was expecting for a sale item -- and I remember thinking then that the store in question had an exploitable "security hole" if a person really wanted to take advantage.

I agree with your statement that there is a history behind it and that stores in the past have had some problems that needed to be addressed.

[havocmom]

17. People can easily purchace a tagging gun and the little plastic pieces

which attatch the tags to the garment. You would be surprised the lengths people will go to be 'cool' and not really spend money.

[amazona]

26. thanks i learned something to day

On the lounge thread someone said they were selling the supplies at Staples! Yikes!

[durablend]

8. This part bothers me...

A spokesman for Limited Brands Inc., which owns the Express stores, declined to answer questions about its computerized return authorization system. Mark R. Hilinski, a co-founder of the Return Exchange Inc., an Irvine, Calif.-based company that provides technology for the retail chain, said the computer denies returns to 1 to 2 percent of customers at most stores. He said even though the database is not subject to the requirements of the Fair Credit Act, his company provides consumers a free copy of their report when they ask and it gives them an opportunity to correct inaccurate data. He added that very few have disputed the information.




Exactly WHY are they pulling credit report(s) for returned merchandise?

[FLSurfer]

12. I think it is a poorly written

attempt to explain that, consumers are given a copy of the information contained in Limited Brands Inc database. Even though the database isn't covered under the Fair Credit Act.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. Simple:

Buy less. Buy second-hand. Make your own.

Be the new hippies. Get off of the hamster wheel.

[silverweb]

14. Exactly, Tandalayo!

:toast:

That was my first thought, too, on reading this article. For the past few years, virtually everything my daughter and I have bought has been second-hand, with a few exceptions from American Apparel, the anti-sweatshop company.

I also recently started sewing again, which I haven't done in years, with the intention of starting to make my own clothes once more -- just an "old hippie" at heart who's becoming a new hippie.

:hippie:

[Red State Rebel]

23. Excellent Advice!

Some people are addicted to shopping. In the article, the shopper said she went home and found she already had items like the 3 she had purchased and wanted to return them. Obviously she has too much crap already! I may not know every piece of clothing I have in my closets, but she was talking basics.

I don't blame stores for not wanting to deal with this crap, it costs them money. I have started making a lot more of my own clothes.

[kimchi]

25. Amen to that!

Thrift stores and yard sales. I will pick books over clothes and toys any day of the year.

[flordehinojos]

11. it seems like this is one more link to the dictator's chain.

they have to control every aspect of your life.
your bedroom.
your purchases.
your returns.
what you read.
what you think.
what you believe.
what news you get.
in a totalitarian state ...... no one is free to be!

[amazona]

15. this happened to a frequent poster on another site

They refused her return at WalMart because she already had 3 returns that year.

I have way more than 3 returns at WalMart this year because I am pro-active about returning even small items that are wrong. But my returns have all been accepted. I don't know if they are actually looking at what the items are and why. My items have been groceries, for instance, my last return was a wine vinegar that I saw was broken when I got home, and they quickly gave me another the next time I went to the store.

The other woman was returning electronic items.

Maybe certain items are more likely to be questioned if you try to return them.

(And yeah, I know, but I am low income and we don't have Costco in my state.)

[Straight Shooter]

19. Costco is on the internet; get together with friends and buy a card

Put the card in only one of your names, and share the shipping costs by planning to make purchases at the same time.

This is what my friends and I are doing. We've also been shopping second-hand stores for the last several years, making our own bread, and fortunate enough to grow some of our own vegetables.

http://www.costco.com

Best of luck to you :hi:

[amazona]

28. thanks i'll look into this

I have at least one friend who would likely be interested. Maybe two.

[Mika]

18. Well, it does define W*'s new "ownership society" propaganda

You bought it - its yours.

[progressivebydesign]

20. I decorate homes for sale... and there are realtors that do this...

They buy home decor pieces at Pier One, Target, etc., for Open Houses, and then return the pieces right before the return deadline. The price tags are on the bottom.. so they get away with it. I can't believe how many people I've met that do this with clothes, too. I think it's so completely unethical, and they tell the stories like it's something to be proud of. I just tell them that, "I didn't hear that", and walk away.

The reason they've instituted the tags on when returned for some items is because MANY people do abuse the return process. If the lady in the article will shell out "$2,000" dollars to be "trendy", then you can be sure she's probably a chronic shopper.. and has returned a LOT. If you buy an outfit, only to find you have the same thing at home.. what does that tell you?

[Lorien]

21. Boycott buying until * is out of office

see some of the many threads on this topic for suggestions. The only way to stop media and government monopoly is to starve the corporate beasts that own it all!

Returns aren't a problem if you don't buy the crap to begin with!

[DS1]

22. BWAHA! The buck stops here indeed.

/desperately needs his Stewie avatar back

[VegasWolf]

27. Electrinic Big Brother: I Know EVERYTHING you do !! n/t

[KT2000]

29. Heard that Nordstrom has been doing this

their easy return policy only lasts for so long and then they disinvite you from shopping at their store if returns are excessive.

Another example of this is Hollywood Video where I have gotten CDs so damaged they were unviewable or in one case, still had the security strip on - no refund, just exchange or credit. Bye Bye Hollywood Video

[yardwork]

30. It's hard for me to have sympathy for shop-a-holics who run into problems

returning some of the thousands of dollars of merchandise they buy and return every year.

My advice to them would be to get a new hobby. And those socialites who buy fancy outfits, wear them once, and return for full refund are nothing but thieves. They probably all vote Republican, too. Family values at work.

[amazona]

32. shop-a-holics have an addiction

Being able to take the step of returning un-needed items and facing down the clerk instead of just keeping tagged, un-used items in their closets for years is a part of their recovery. They have an addiction related to gambling addiction, indeed, I have known a gambling addict who was also a shopping addict, and apparently this isn't at all unusual.

My ex's aunt committed suicide and they found thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of un-worn, still tagged items in her closet. Even a mink coat.

Now, the scammers who buy, wear the item, and then return it after the fancy event...they are con artists and well worthy of our scorn.

[pinniped]

31. The sales clerk should've informed the customer before...

completing the transaction. Of course their stupid system wouldn't want her to know that beforehand. She could've made an informed decision had she known of their shit policy.

Fuck express and their (probable) sweatshop clothing.

[jayctravis]

33. I work customer service for a retailer...

On the phone line that gets these calls, and the customers HATE this system.

Thing is, these are installed (in my case) on a regional/store basis. I have no knowledge of what the machine does, and have no access to the information.

But it makes sense. The store is there to sell you items you need, not loan them to you for a period, and that seems what this aims to prevent. Usually it seems to be multiple returns in a three-month period, or in one case to multiple stores in the same chain can trigger it. These people are usually outraged, "I only returned that rake in September and that crate of light bulbs in October!

One call I took was a guy who sent his wife to buy paint and she didn't know at all how much she needed, ending up with enough to essentially dip the house like a caramel apple. Of course this is the *store's* fault for not sensing how much paint she needed and that of course she's a "woman" and "needs that kind of help."

[Brundle_Fly]

34. AND YOU ALL WERE WONDERING

why on earth the stores were asking you for your phone number and addresses for the last three years....here's your answer.

[Ann Arbor Dem]

35. And that's why I decline to give that information or I make it up. n/t

[SoCalDem]

41. I always give them a wrong number ...same for zipcode

and I do not give them my actual address.. I get enough junk mail :)

[Blue_Tires]

36. i'm in the strange position of actually defending

corporate retailers, but let's face it...people have gotten tired of the 'weekend party loan' and want to crack down (i also have friends and relatives VERY guilty of this, all for the sake of impressing people they don't know, and in the past, friends would do the same with video games or DVDs)...i know some see it as a 'victimless' crime, since the store does get the garment back, but it's still incredibly petty, shallow and unethical...

[Logansquare]

37. A relative who used to work at Crate & Barrel told me

about some guy who would buy an entire set of expensive china and flatware for the holidays and then return them *dirty* to C&B--he apparently knew that washing them would take the tags off, so he just wiped 'em or something. The amazing thing was that C&B would take them back, repeatedly! It was company policy. He told me that chronic returners like this man ate up thousands of hours of employee time processing items.

[Libby2]

38. People do tend to abuse return policies. n/t

[gmoney]

39. Lowe's redlined me a while back...

Just after I bought this place I was doing various projects, and since I'm an imbecile, I would often buy the wrong thing, get it home, and decide I needed to exchange it. Finally, I was trying to return some shelving materials their clerk had mistakenly told me would work, and they initially refused the return. I was able to get a manager's override and return the stuff since it was new and I had receipts, but was warned that I couldn't return anything else. I think they had a blackout of 90 days because I did make an exchange or two since.

[lpricanprynces]

42. The Return Exchange

I am a loss prevention executive for a large retail company. Unless you work in the field, you really have no idea how rampant theft, refund fraud, and return abuse actually occur.

The express and their parent company, limited brands, use a company called the Return Exchange. http://www.returnexchange.com/
They track your returns to identify people who abuse the system.

There used to be a website, www.buyreceipts.com , that bought cash receipts from people so they could turn around and use the receipts for refund fraud.

Hell, look at ebay. The new trend is to steal items, or just pick them up off of the display, and present them as a return. The crook then gets a store credit, usually in the form of a gift card, which they then sell on ebay for cash. Many of these refunds are over the $500.00 range, and if you look at the bidding on them, the seller usually gets to within $50.00 of the total value of the credit. So now we have people returning say $500.00 in merchandise, getting a gift card, and recieving $450.00 in cash for their fraud.

I did a quick search for "store credit" on ebay, and 105 items were found, 3 pages worth. Take a look, and you'll see what I mean.
http://search.ebay.com/store-credit_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8

Look at this sellers feed back, and you can click on the item number to see what the item was that was sold.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=guiy
12 of the items on the firts page of feedback are gift cards from Crate and Barrel, Bath and Body works, and he is currently selling a $646.71 gift card from Pier 1.

Unfortunately, due to auction sites like ebay, thieves have found themselves a nice way to fence their stolen goods.

If you really want to see how thieves use the internet for information, go to www.zooass.com , click on zoo forums, then click on the art of shoplifting.

These examples are just a drop in the bucket of what is really going on, and what most honest, decent people do not realize is happening.