US rolls out most expensive jet

[Chicago Democrat]

Wednesday, 27 October, 2004, 17:20 GMT 18:20 UK

US rolls out most expensive jet

By David Bamford
BBC Defence and Security correspondent

The FA-22 Raptor jet was designed in the 1980s to fight the USSR
The first of a fleet of the world's most expensive fighter jet, the FA-22 Raptor, is being commissioned into the United States Air Force.
The US military has ordered 277 planes, the first of which was due to roll out onto the tarmac at its manufacturing base in Georgia on Wednesday.

(snip)


The other part is that, at a cost of about $260m (£142m) each, the Raptor is designed to fight a potential Soviet enemy that no longer exists, and a Third World War that - if it ever happens - will be very different from what could have been imagined in 1981.

(snip)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3959673.stm

[Chicago Democrat]

1. Wow... a total waste of money....

Who exactly is this supposed to be deployed against?

[pfitz59]

3. Who cares......

CEO's of defense firms are biggest traitors of all. Highest paid Federal employees in violation of national wage law. They are greedy pigs. Defense? This is not about defense! This is about greed, fraud and treason... Where's Senator Truman when we need him?

[flyingfysh]

2. this plane is superb in meeting its primary goal

which is to funnel lots of money to big defense contractors

[JohnyCanuck]

4. But it'll be a piker

compared to what the missile defense project (aka Star Wars) will accomplish in that regard.

[UpInArms]

5. have to find lots of rat holes

to stuff that Pentagon budget with - can't spend that money getting armored vehichles and body armor for the guys and gals on the front line, ya know.

:eyes:

[TheBlackSteeds]

6. indeed

It won't be shit compared to what the Russians are rolling out with these days, anyway.. Relying on 80s technology to feed the parasites will eventually dry that well up, but that is a mess still quite a ways down the road by the looks of things.

[Almost_there]

14. What exactly are the Russians "rolling out" with?

The Russian air force right now is probably still using prop driven radar planes, their air force has a budget equal to that of the NYC school disctrict. There is nothing that the Russians have that they could probably even get into the air for extended operations. Even the Chinese with the largest military on earth have a sad excuse for an air force. That said, these planes don't use "80s technology", they were designed in the 80s, the electronics, the most important part of the plane was designed and updated during production. Have no fear, these fantastically expensive planes are modern.

Something to note though, the life of an airplane is measured in take offs and landings, the most stressful cycle to its airframe. Engines can be removed, rebuilt, and replaced, the airframe itself cannot. The frames to F-15s and F-16s are getting seriously old and outdated. By ordering 277, it probably replaces 1/2 of the oldest planes in the air force.

Nex up: The Navy and their variants! Time for more budget overspending!

[ewagner]

19. Agree

I think the article is slanted in the sense that the technology in the plane is more advanced in stealth and electronics than anything out there now....or for the foreseeable future.

However, such advanced technology and the gap between us and others will only encourage asymetric warfare against which this technology is virtually useless. Therein lies the whole fallacy of arms races.

[Fovea]

20. The Russians have flown a prototype hypersonic

drone, as have we. Imagine a cruise missile that moves at Mach 4.

Can't stop a target you can't acquire.

What such a weapon can do to win an asymmetrical war is quite problematic. Unless you are an insurgent, and manage to steal a few.

[lil-petunia]

25. But But But But - - -WE got us an SDI Thingie in Alaska!

Ain't dat why we is payin bbbbilions of bucks for dat thing, Bubba?

Of course it can hit dem mach 4 supersonic cruisers, cause I trust my govmint to do da right ting at da right time.

I sure is feelin safer, ain't you?

[htuttle]

22. The Russian air force as a whole is in very poor shape, but...

...a couple of their fighters are very impressive.

The Sukhoi-37 'super flanker' can do some extremely impressive manuevers that other planes are just not capable of doing. It has a ducted 'Thrust Vector Control' setup in the rear, among other things. This is GREAT for doing airshows -- not sure if it's ever seen actual combat, however (not sure it has).

This new fighter the US is building still can't compete with this plane as far as tactical manueverability goes.

:shrug:


Ultimately, what is at stake here is NOT 'air superiority in a future war'. What is at stake is sales of these aircraft to the developing world. The US government will essentially end up paying the R&D costs so a private company can produce fighters to sell to the likes of Libya and Indonesia. THAT is where the competition really is -- not in the skies in a 'dogfight'.

[Nexus7]

24. The Su-27 will be a better comparision

While the US was stuck in the Land of Pork, between the F-16 and F-18, Russia was busy making the Su-27 and its many variants like the Su-30, which in all respects would fit between the F-16/18 and the F-22. Only difference being that the Su-27 has been in service for 10+ years and has been exported to India and China. Now, what is they say about the "market" economy again? The commies beat us? Wow.

[Nexus7]

26. Russians "still" using prop planes???

Hmmm... nothing like a little jingoism to feel good, I guess. Unfortunately what the arms race fuelled by the "military-industrial" complex got us was that the Russians built some real meanies in return, that make the much vaunted B-52 and B-1B look like cotton candy. The Tu-160 is still in service, I believe. It can reach NATO territory faster than we can scramble planes, and all it carries is cruise missiles. Each of its 4 engines is as powerful as all of the B-1B. And the BS about russian planes having half the service life of American ones is just BS. Remember the CCCP is the safe fallback option to go to the Intl Space Station. Besides this plane has to make only one trip to spell the end of civilization.

So let's put the Russia-bashing aside and realize that the sooner we get democrats in the White House and the neocons and piss-n-vinegar generals out of the Pentagon, the sooner we are really secure.

[Chicago Democrat]

8. Precisely 260 Million.... Could buy alot of soldiers and tanks

Its why our European trading partners say we unfairly fund civilian aircraft with juicy padded politically connected contracts!

[saigon68]

27. "Precisely 260 Million.... Could buy a lot of Drugs for seniors"

Meals for ghetto children

Flu shots for those who have lung disorders.

Nah "FUCK THOSE UNWORTHY LAZY BASTARDS", the Awol Chimpanzee

[Gyre]

17. Here sooey!

Between this, Son of Star Wars, and supplying all the $ and weapons for Israel's war on it's occupied territories, it's time for a taxpayer revolt.

Gyre

[BiggJawn]

7. The money wasted on ONE of those pork-birds...

Would feed me for 6,666.7 years.

"...the Raptor is designed to fight a potential Soviet enemy that no longer exists..."

Oh, just like Condom-Sleezie Rice!

[Laelth]

9. If I remember correctly ...

this was Newt Gingrich's baby. Plane's built by Martin-Marietta, in Marietta GA, right smack in the middle of GA's most conservative congressional district.

Once again, as a Georgian, I must apologize, on behalf of my state, for inflicting that demon upon the country. All I can say in our defense is that I think he was born in Ohio (whose people wisely ejected him as soon as he could talk).

:dem:

-Laelth

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

10. I would guess, at 260 million/per,

that they are pretty fantastic...

That being the case, why do we need so many (277) of them?

That amounts to approx 72 billion...

[Chicago Democrat]

11. They are great, but our older planes are just fine so its a waste

No other airforce on earth is even close... Why 277 indeed?

[Dogmudgeon]

13. Cost of a "Space Elevator": $45 billion

Sometimes it just doesn't pay to do the math.

--bkl

[despairing optimist]

12. Let Laura fly the family home with it in January

She can learn takeoffs and landings later.

[Gothic Sponge]

15. They are still building shit to fight a cold war!

Hello! New enemy! How about spending the money on some translators like Siebel Edmonds!

[0007]

16. Jays'us, I guess the freepers will sleep better, until we sell

a hundred or so to China to protect Taiwan. Wait a second, didn't Colin Powell say the other day that Taiwan rightfully belong to China?

Does the U.S. make anything other than weaponries for war?

[Hobarticus]

18. Roll out the old F-20 again...

Better suited to face future foes.

[RivetJoint]

23. And vastly inferior

to the F-16s, SU-27s, MIG-29s that other countries have.

And lets not forget the new Eurofighter.

[One_Life_To_Give]

21. F-15 is getting old.

Considering the F-15, Air Superiority fighter, is getting old, in terms of airframe stress. And the better than expected performance of the SU-27 and Mig-29's she was expected to fight. We should keep some squadrons armed with the latest/best system in case it is needed. The F-16 which was pursued as a low cost alternative to the F-15, still does a good job as a low cost multi mission warplane. So it can fill many roles in the airforce. But if we have to put up air superiority in a area threatened by SU-27's etc. We will need some quantity of top notch air superiority fighters.

[reprobate]

28. This aircraft will stand a lot of 'runway alert' duty.

And not much flying. with peak oil approaching, and some say already here, the Raptor has already outflown its supply line.

This country is led by a bunch of maniacal greedy monsters. Building weapons to fight yesterday's war, with an ever decreasing supply of money, while americans lack simple health care is just insane, and would not be allowed in a nation that was a true democracy.

Of course, there is much doubt of the future of america. An economy based on petroleum and "defense" and not on the needs of it's people, is an economy (and political system) that will find survival unlikely.