Kerry demands answers about missing explosives

[maddezmom]

PORTSMOUTH, New Hampshire (AFP) - Democrat challenger John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign demanded answers from President George W. Bush (news - web sites) about the disappearance of nearly 400 tonnes of conventional explosives in Iraq (news - web sites), as the deadlocked White House race entered its final week.


AFP Photo



In a campaign underpinned by the basic question of who will make Americans safer, the Kerry camp pounced on revelations of the missing explosives, on a day when it also expects a boost from the return of former president Bill Clinton (news - web sites) to the campaign trail.


"Today, the Bush administration must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq," senior Kerry advisor Joe Lockhart said in a statement dispatched before sunrise.


"How did they fail to secure nearly 380 tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so? Why was this information unearthed by reporters -- and was it covered up by our national security officials?"

~snip~
more: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041025/ts_alt_afp/us_vote&cid=1506&ncid=2043

CNN doing a story now.Response from the WH is that it's not possible to keep up with all the explosives in Iraq. /a soijesperson from the IAEA on now speaking about it, saying the US was and is responsible.

[mbperrin]

1. Now, you KNOW * tried hard to think of a mistake he'd made

and he couldn't think of ONE, so this just can't be true! Right? :)

[abb9]

20. Missing? all Clinton's fault

Dubya makes no mistakes,cant think of any, he is perfect.
So as you see it is all Clinton's fault.
An this might just be all propaganda by haters of freedom and democracy and haters of America.

[0007]

24. Good point. Tally Ho the Fox! Lets go get 'em!


Scalia and cheney has a new duck hunting dog.
Dog has nose for explosives.

[JPace]

43. How could he hug shrub?......

John was being tortured in a Vietnam prison and
his huggy friend was AWOL and drunk.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. I love this rapid response stuff

Kerry's out demanding answers and Bush isn't even out of bed yet.

[UpInArms]

6. Charlie Gibson reported on ABC Evening News last night

that * was in bed at 8:30 at the Crawford Ranch on Saturday night.

* acts like there is not a care in the world about his maladministration's incompetence.

:argh:

[jhain]

18. all those coffins...

think they removed him from DC for the weekend so he wouldn't see all the coffins at the Linc Mem?

Maybe he still thinks there have been no casualties.

You could simply sob all day.....

Bring On President Kerry.

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. OMG, that was why W was hiding in Crawford this weekend?

What a fucking coward.

[UpInArms]

33. coward doesn't even come close

1,100 coffins - tribute to fallen soldiers

http://www.brunei-online.com/bb/mon/oct25w29.htm



WASHINGTON (AP) - A small group of war protesters paid tribute to the troops who died in Iraq by setting up more than 1,100 flag-draped cardboard coffins in front of the Lincoln Memorial.

The coffins stretched halfway down each side of the reflecting pool. At 1 pm Saturday, members of the Iraq War Memorial Coalition read the names of the people who were killed and then played taps.

Pat Elder, who helped organize the event, said the 75-member coalition was formed two weeks ago by people who belonged to the Quaker faith, Veterans for Peace and Military Families Speak Out.

"We just wanted to get across the idea that there's a human cost to this war," said Elder, 49, who owns a real estate title company in Bethesda, Maryland. "We're not the radical ones. We are moderates, We're not all antiwar, we're just against this war."

...more...

[Pirate Smile]

3. Did someone say cover up? Condi can't talk right now, she is on the

campaign trail. You know, they do have their priorities.

[ima_sinnic]

4. woo-hoo! go John! this quote from the story:

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site."

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. Because they were to busy securing the oil fields.

Rumsfeld called it a "crime for the regime" to destroy Iraq's source of future riches and warned that those who destroy dams, villages or oil reserves will "forfeit leniency" when their acts are judged in post-war Iraq. U.S. special operations forces had been assigned to help prevent torching of the wells, and at least one MH-53 crashed in southern Iraq while inserting a team. The team and crew were recovered and the helicopter was destroyed by Navy F-14s.

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/0321gulf.xml

[Karenina]

31. Other goodies that were not "secured."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1160105

[leftchick]

5. This is Excellent! I hope it makes it to my TV......

<snip>

These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons.


"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site."


The International Atomic Energy Agency on Monday confirmed a report in The New York Times that the interim government of Iraq had voiced concern over the disappearance.


An IAEA spokeswoman added that the agency feared the powerful explosives may have "fallen into the wrong hands, terrorists'."

[maddezmom]

7. turn to CNN now...IAEA spokesperson on now

[Lorien]

38. It sure isn't excellent for our troops

or the Iraqi civilians. This is probably the stuff the insurgents have been using all along-and they've got A LOT more left to use, obviously. If I were a soldier stationed over there right now, I'd be FURIOUS!

[last1standing]

8. While this is a horrible tragedy for our troops in Iraq,

I'm glad the information is coming out and finally being spotlighted before the election. These explosives are most likely being used against our military on a daily basis now and it is 100% the fault of those greedy oil mongers in the white house. As was posted here months ago, I find it downright criminal that they had a plan for securing the oil fields, but not the museums, banks, or even depots filled with explosives.

bush* has made all of us culpable for the crimes he has committed and the world will not forgive us easily. We need a true leader in office before another country takes our place on the world scene.

[chelaque liberal]

19. "horrible tragedy for our troops in Iraq"

and all the people of the entire planet!

(Not a cut against you, last1standing. Just an expression of my rage.)

[last1standing]

25. You're right.

Every action of this miserable failure is a horrible tragedy for the people of the entire planet. Just think about his actions.

Pulling out of the Kyoto Treaty
Pulling out of the Salt Treaty
Trillions in tax cuts to the top 1% elite
Record deficits
Stagnant stock market
700,000+ jobs lost
Blocking stem cell research
Lying to the UN - repeatedly
Pushing the Patriot Act
Pushing Patriot Act II
Denying citizens basic constitutional rights in concentration camps
Killing 1100+ US soldiers for a dirty oil grab
Maiming 8000+ US soldiers for a dirty oil grab
Killing 30,000+ civilians for a dirty oil grab
Subverting our electoral process for a dirty oil grab
And so many more....

We must get this monster out of the white house.

[Lorien]

42. His crimes against the environment alone

will be paid for by every living creature on earth! If there is a hell, there's almost no punishment concievable that can be enough for the harm this incompetent, petty, greedy, evil group has wrought!

[reprobate]

47. We need an International Court trial for war crimes. The whole bunch

[jukes]

9. if the media does their jobs

this cd hurt the *junta*!

[truthpusher]

12. I think this will stick - even the blonde lady on Fox was making a...

...big deal about this.

[maddezmom]

15. thanks for the update :)

now I don't have to do it, hate going there.... :puke:

[Roy]

36. even the blonde lady on Fox was making a..." HA HA HA!!

I think all females are required to become blonde before going before the camera on Fox.

Company issued die ONLY!!!!

[vetwife]

83. Too much bleach..too few braincells !

[Skittles]

71. um - that would be FAKE BLONDE

do not lump us real blondes in with them please :)

[henslee]

11. Sadly, this is checkmate Mr. Crashcart. Now spin off into outer space like

Darth Vader at the end of Star Wars 1 and we'll expect you to rear your ugly head in the next installment, fortifed by the millions you and your crew skimmed.

[Nlighten1]

13. Passing the buck again?

Yeah, he deserves to be re-selected.

Not

[are_we_united_yet]

14. Uhhhh

I definitely wouldn't consider this "supporting" out troops.

[cubsfan forever]

50. Guess it's Bunnypants' idea of supporting the troops, though

What a despicable, puling, little COWARD!!

Professor 2

[calimary]

58. Is this what he meant by "up in the air"?

"Up in the airHEAD" I think is more like it.

I am SO GLAD this is getting out there. I can't believe it's actually being reported! I can't believe Kerry's actually started yelling about it! I can't believe it! It's all over the news? (Don't have the TV on yet.) THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!!! It's kind of unavoidable now, isn't it?

[debatepro]

16. Google news 310 plus articles

I did a google news search this morning it looks like atleast 310 news sources carried the story. Npr had an comment on it. Of course the report was white wash since it didn't blaim the bush administration.

[maddezmom]

17. well the IAEA spokesperson on CNN this am

puts the blame on the US, said they were and are responsible for securing this site and other known sites.

[tabasco]

21. Not when there's oil to be secured first !!

That 350 tons of HE might be dangerous to our troops but that oil is $$$$$$$$$$. Gotta have that oil before we protect the troops !

In Vietnam, the VC had to take apart unexploded bombs to get this type of HE for booby traps. Well, we saved the Iraqi resistance all that trouble by letting them haul off enough HE for thousands of roadside bombs. Way to go Bush !!

[UpInArms]

26. possible hundreds of thousands of bombs

380 tons = 760,000 pounds of explosives

one pound bombs = 760,000

two pound bombs = 380,000

four pound bombs = 190,000

less than one pound took Pan Am Flight #103 out of the sky

four pounds killed 280 of our troops in Beirut

The tragedies that are yet to be known are endless in this fiasco.

[PBX9501]

64. Type o?

You mean 400lbs right. That is equiv to 500lbs of tnt.

C4 (plastic rdx) and semtex also yield around (note around) 20 percent more than tnt.

[Nancy Waterman]

57. The oil is no use

when it is being blown up by the explosives!!

[Ganja Ninja]

22. "it's not possible to keep up with all the explosives in Iraq."

It's not possible because Dumya and Company ignored the advise that they didn't have enough troops to do the job! They fired or ran off anyone that disagreed with them.

[AllyCat]

27. Then we shouldn't have been there! nt

[debatepro]

28. NYT article was a whitewash of the bush regime

I think the UK Reuters report is little more poignant.

U.S. FAILED TO SECURE KNOWN NUCLEAR SITE

The New York Times report cited White House and Pentagon officials -- as well as at least one Iraqi minister -- as acknowledging that the explosives vanished from the site shortly after the U.S.-led invasion amid widespread looting.

The minister of science and technology, Rashad M. Omar, confirmed the explosives were missing in an interview with The Times and CBS Television in Baghdad.

A Western diplomat close to the IAEA, who declined to be named, said it was difficult to understand why the U.S. military had failed to secure the facility despite knowing how sensitive the site was.

"This was a very well known site. If you could have picked a few sites that you would have to secure then ... Al Qaqaa would certainly be one of the main ones," the diplomat said.

[maddezmom]

29. agree and here's the link:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=1276&e=1&u=/nm/20041025/wl_nm/iraq_explosives_dc

[debatepro]

30. thx

forgot the link.

[dweller]

34. from the Yahoo article

"U.S. national security adviser Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites)
was informed about the missing explosives only within the last month,
the Times said, adding that it was unclear whether President Bush
(news - web sites) was aware."

:wtf:

don't they tell the *moron anything?
dp

[maddezmom]

35. WH and Pentagon acknowledge ....shortly after US led invasion

~The New York Times report cited White House and Pentagon (news - web sites) officials -- as well as at least one Iraqi minister -- as acknowledging that the explosives vanished from the site shortly after the U.S.-led invasion amid widespread looting. ~

SO the Pentagon and the WH knew, but Condi just finds out and * may or may not know???? WTF

[Demeter]

48. What Would Be the Point in Telling Bush Anything?

He won't listen, and he doesn't "do" Reality.

[maddezmom]

49. He not there yet.....

[kostya]

73. I think Condi was speaking in the existential sense

[debatepro]

32. The Day after - DOD Transcript: Secure the oil fields

Transcript Friday, March 21, 2003 - 1:36 p.m

http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2003/t03212003_t0321sd1.html



On the president's order, coalition forces began the ground war to disarm Iraq and liberate the Iraqi people yesterday. And a few minutes ago, the air war in Iraq began

Our goal is to defend the American people, and to eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, and to liberate the Iraqi people. Coalition military operations are focused on achieving several specific objectives: to end the regime of Saddam Hussein by striking with force on a scope and scale that makes clear to Iraqis that he and his regime are finished. Next, to identify, isolate and eventually eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, their delivery systems, production capabilities, and distribution networks. Third, to search for, capture, drive out terrorists who have found safe harbor in Iraq. Fourth, to collect such intelligence as we can find related to terrorist networks in Iraq and beyond. Fifth, to collect such intelligence as we can find related to the global network of illicit weapons of mass destruction activity. Sixth, to end sanctions and to immediately deliver humanitarian relief, food and medicine to the displaced and to the many needy Iraqi citizens. Seventh, to secure Iraq's oil fields and resources, which belong to the Iraqi people, and which they will need to develop their country after decades of neglect by the Iraqi regime. And last, to help the Iraqi people create the conditions for a rapid transition to a representative self-government that is not a threat to its neighbors and is committed to ensuring the territorial integrity of that country.

[rocktivity]

37. Didn't Kerry say something about unguarded ammo dumps during the debates?

(Gets off shiftless lazy ass and does her own research)

Oh, yes, here it is, from the second debate:

KERRY...The president did not do what was necessary. Didn't bring in enough nation. Didn't deliver the help. Didn't close off the borders. Didn't even guard the ammo dumps. And now our kids are being killed with ammos right out of that dump.

Link to debate transcripts 1960-2004

:headbang:
rocknation

[Beetwasher]

40. He Said It Several Times!

Set it up beautifully...

[DrZeeLit]

51. So... if Kerry had a briefing...

...then * knew. Even if he's sleeping-in now, he knew and of course, kept his mouth shut because.... HE DOESN"T MAKE MISTAKES...

Did you read Herbert in the NYT today?
Ya'll should. I'll put up a link.

[rjbny62]

39. Bush's Incompetence - another excellent post from LeftCoaster

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/003093.html#more

>>>>>>>>>

Bush's Incompetence Endangers American Troops

Today we have indisputable evidence that the Bush administration is incompetent and must be replaced as soon as possible. What other conclusion can one draw when one realizes that they were incapable of keeping tons (yeah, that's right - TONs) of extremely dangerous explosives safe in Iraq, the land they invaded to "protect the American people" from the dangerous weapons?
......

The Bush administration was told before the invasion that they would assume responsibility for the situation in Iraq and they have failed on every front. Although they now say that the explosives at al Qaqaa were not weapons of mass destruction, it is sobering to realize the less than a pound of it was used to blow Pan Am Flight 103 out of the sky. And these screwups let over 350 TONs of it fall into the hands of those who wish us no good. Great job, George. I wonder what your encore would be assuming Americans were stupid enough to let you have a second term.

>>>>>>>>

[Beetwasher]

41. Kerry's Oct. Surprise LITERALLY EXPLOSIVE

Man that's good irony...So much here that's good. It's so perfect.

[Lorien]

44. DUers need to get to work on this, pronto

letters to the editors are needed, expressing the outrage we should , very justifiably, be feeling about this. I was furious when the museums and library were unprotected, looted and partially destroyed (items of HUMAN history-not just Iraqi history. They belong to all of us). But this goes far beyond the pale. This isn't just about turning it into a political weapon the use against BushCo- our troops and thousands of innocents will , and have been, killed and maimed by explosives from this stockpile-looted as recently as SATURDAY!

Write to your local papers NOW-make them answer for this gross incompetence!

[JawJaw]

53. If you do nothing else between now and the election...

Hit the monkeys HARD on this one.
Write letters, Emails - Call your local station
This one HURTS Bush

"this president has once again failed the test of being the commander in chief"

[Chiyo-chichi]

45. BAM!

"The unbelievable blindness, stubbornness, arrogance of this administration to do the basics have now allowed this president to once again fail the test of being the commander in chief," Kerry said at a morning rally.


"This is one of the great blunders of Iraq, one of the great blunders of this administration," Kerry said.

[Soth]

46. The October Surprise?

SURPRISE!!

"I let a buncha terrists take sum bomb-stuff! They can use 'em to surprise our troops in tha field! Cool, huh?"

[maddezmom]

52. AP link: Kerry Accuses Bush of Incompetence

~snip~



"Every step of the way, this administration has miscalculated," Kerry said in Dover, N.H. He spoke shortly before traveling to Philadelphia for a rally with former President Clinton (news - web sites), who was making his first political appearance since heart surgery nearly seven weeks ago.


Kerry said the Bush administration had "miscalculated about how to go to war, miscalculated about the numbers of troops that we would need, miscalculated about sending young Americans to war without the armor they needed, without the Humvees they needed that were armored."


"And the incredible incompetence of this president and this administration has put our troops at risk and put this country at greater risk than we ought to be," Kerry said.

more:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=703&e=1&u=/ap/20041025/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp

[Francine Frensky]

54. Is this really pronounced "caca" as in the spanish word for

"sh$%"?

As in, oh caca, we forgot to secure the 340 ton pile of explosives!!!

[trogdor]

59. ...or blow it up...whatever.

We're so goddam good at blowing shit up, why couldn't we, if we couldn't spare a couple PFC's to guard the shit, destroy it? Isn't that what you usually do with stuff you can't guard?

[leftchick]

55. Reuters: Kerry Slams Bush for 'Great Blunder' in Iraq

http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=6600228


snip...

DOVER, N.H. (Reuters) - Democratic challenger John Kerry accused President Bush on Monday of committing "one of the greatest blunders" of his administration in failing to secure tons of explosives in Iraq and said the Republican incumbent did not deserve to be commander in chief.

<snip>

"George W. Bush who talks tough -- talks tough -- and brags about making America safer, has once again failed to deliver," Kerry told supporters in Dover, New Hampshire. "After being warned about the danger of major stockpiles of explosives in Iraq, this president failed to guard those stockpiles."

Kerry said terrorists could use the material "to kill our troops, our people, blow up airplanes and level buildings."

"This is one of the great blunders of Iraq, one of the greatest blunders of this administration and the incredible incompetence of this president and this administration has put our troops at risk and this country at greater risk."

[debatepro]

56. Rumsfeld comment on 4/11/2003 - looting not a big deal.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030411-010551-6382r

Rumsfeld: Looting is transition to freedom
By Pamela Hess
UPI Pentagon Correspondent

Published 4/11/2003 5:53 PM
<snip>

"The task we've got ahead of us now is an awkward one ... It's untidy. And freedom's untidy. And free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here," Rumsfeld said.

"And for suddenly the biggest problem in the world to be looting is really notable."

<snip>

Rumsfeld seems to be taking a hands-off approach to that possibility.

"While no one condones looting, on the other hand, one can understand the pent-up feelings that may result from decades of repression and people who have had members of their family killed by that regime, for them to be taking their feelings out on that regime," he said. "And I don't think there's anyone in any of those pictures ... (who wouldn't) accept it as part of the price of getting from a repressed regime to freedom."

[jokerman93]

60. I just can't wait

I just can't wait to see how this was Clinton's fault! Ha! At last the dam is breaking.

[Parche]

61. GW Bush

Its hard work being inept

You can run, but you cant hide from explosives

[peterh]

62. 400 tons of explosives are missing…..and…..

Coalition Provisional Authority is missing $8.8 billion
Halliburton no-bids and overcharges
Over 1100 soldiers dead
Over 15,000 Iraqi civilians dead
Untold thousands on both sides maimed
Mission unfuckingaccomplished

Dow at 9700 and trending down
Deficit is off the chart
Crude is at 55 and climbing
Environmental record sucks big time
Health insurance sucks big time
Only the privileged can get flu shots
Etc…etc…etc….

And amid all the flagrant lies, it just boggles the mind that this election is going to be even remotely close….x(

[PBX9501]

63. Information

Sorry to cross post two threads but..

RDX and HMX are common explosives. You can buy them in the us with a license. RDX is used in C4 in a plastic form.

http://www.beston.com/Products.aspx

HMX is HighMeltingpointeXplosive and has a "yield" around 20 to 30 percent greater than tnt, per weight (c4 is similar). There are lots of comparison methods on explosives so I'm estimating. Nuclear weapons use explosives as a lens to focus energy. Early bombs used rdx and tnt, later hmx was used because it has a higher melting point.

Loosing that much explosive is stupid but the chemicals are not magical and do not pose more or less of a threat than the contents of an unfired 155mm artillery shell.

[George_S]

65. Yeah, well, tell that to the dead people

Or maybe say it again after it is used in another 9/11 attack.

Nice try, but there's no getting around it. This does not make America or anyone else safer.

[PBX9501]

67. You misunderstood

It is incredibly stupid for this to happen. But understanding the technical capability of the explosives allows people to discuss them realistically. All I am saying is that they are not miracle chemicals or used primarily for nuclear weapons.

I will say it again to be clear. This is commercial explosive and widely available. There are a few subjects that I can discuss with expert knowledge, this is one of them.

RDX is the primary ingredient in C4. HMX is also a standard high yield explosive.

Depending on its state it may be very dangerous or practically worthless.

Dead people dont care if they got killed from an unfused 155 arty round boosted with a plastic charge or really expensive explosive that has a high melting point. Dead is dead.

No politics here.

[Oilwellian]

66. I've seen you post this at least twice now

What exactly is your reason behind it? Does it somehow make it better that Bush allowed these explosives to get in the hands of the wrong people?

[PBX9501]

68. NO

You misunderstood. The media plays fast and loose with anything that has a technical language associated with it.

Explosives being let loose is terrible. But from a technical standpoint they are not miracles. HMX is similar to RDX, in yield over tnt. HMX is different because its high melting point makes it more stable for use in special weapons application(warheads, etc).

It is like comparing being run over by a Ford Crown vic and BMW 7 series. You are still dead.

Is it really bad yes.

[Oilwellian]

69. Who's questioning the "technical standpoint?"

Sure, explosives are prevalent today. But that's not the point. Why do you insist on making that an issue? Oh, well looky here:

The same official took this one out for a spin with CNN too ...

The senior administration official downplayed the importance of the missing explosives, describing them as dangerous material but "stuff you can buy anywhere." The official added that the administration did not see this necessarily as a "proliferation risk."

"In the grand scheme -- and on a grand scale -- there are hundreds of tons of weapons, munitions, artillery, explosives that are unaccounted for in Iraq," the official said. "And like the Pentagon has said, there is really no way the U.S. military could safeguard all of these weapons depots or find all of these missing materials."



So, given what a powder keg Iraq is, what's another few hundred tons of plastic explosives. It's not even "necessarily" a proliferation risk.

I'm feeling better already.

-- Josh Marshall
(October 25, 2004 -- 11:36 AM EDT // link // print)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com /


Kathryn

[PBX9501]

70. Deja Vu

I posted a response in a similar thread so I'll keep it short.

The explosive is not a proliferation factor. Explosives are a subject I worked with in a prior career for a defense contractor. I can tell you with certainty about explosives used in nuclear warheads. You can make a nuclear bomb with any mailable high explosive.

The press makes them out to be super explosives, etc. They are not. They will still kill but they are no more deadly than c4.

Losing this much explosive is very bad. The stupidity of this can not be understated.

[Kimber Scott]

76. The point is they knew where these explosives were. The IAEA told the

US they needed to secure them once they were in control of Iraq and the US failed to do so. Just like they failed to secure anything other than the oil ministry.

It really doesn't matter if it was tnt, or anything else that goes boom. They were given the specific location of these explosives and were told they were a danger and they needed to be secured. I haven't heard anybody say anything about these explosives being "magical" or special in any way. Just that there were almost 400 tons of them that is now missing. That is pretty fantastic in itself, don't you think?

[PBX9501]

77. Fantastically stupid.

I was commenting in general rather than picking on up thread comments on proliferation and questionable statements made. Comments about airliners being destroyed with less than a pound. That is possible with any high explosive. Even the "weaker" types.

400 tons is a SHITLOAD of anything to move. A bunch of peons did not do this. It would take 17 semis to move this much mass. Never mind the volume of the material and packing crates.

This had to be organized IMHO. You dont drive off with this in a Toyota pickup.

It was monumentally stupid not to secure all known weapons caches.

[LynnTheDem]

78. Bullshit.

It's not "stupid", it's GROSS CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE and total utter INCOMPETENCE.

Our troops are BEING KILLED AND BLOWN APART by those very explosives that bush was told to secure and DIDN'T BOTHER.

[PBX9501]

80. I agree

My point was that the capabilities of the explosive is being overstated in the press. I may have geeked out on the subject. Sorry if I was unclear.

The fact that it happened is horrible. There is no excuse for bushes actions.

Was there a problem with something I said?

[LynnTheDem]

85. No problem...

I'm just BLOODY ANNOYED the past 2 years. My husband was sent to Iraq for bush's bullshit lying-ass invasion, and is just recently back home, and our nephew is in Iraq now; we've lost several soldier-friends and will lose more; and it's all for a pack of bloody LIES which we've known since September 2002 and JUST NOW the damned US State Media is FINALLY reporting crap that the rest of the world has been reporting for over a year and 3 more troops were killed and 18 wounded in Iraq today and tomorrow more will die & more will lose limbs and I'm PISSED OFF, which may make me come across as a wee bit testy.

[SidDithers]

81. What would the volume of that much explosive be?...

How many trucks would be required to move 380 tons of explosive? Any idea of the density of this stuff? How many cubic meters is 380 tons?

I'm hoping in your past experience you might have run across physical properties of stuff similar to this.

Thanks,

Sid

[SidDithers]

82. Nevermind :), looked it up...

HMX is 1.9 g/cm3

380 tons = 340,000 kg = 340,000,000 g = 178,947,368 cm3
which is approx 234 cubic yards.

That's alot of loads of topsoil.

Sid

[Chicago Democrat]

72. I Demand Explanations TOO!!

Damn them to hell!

8000 US Casualties!

50000 Iraqis Dead!

FUCKING IRAQ AWASH IN DEPLEATED URANIUM

[Kimber Scott]

74. Pentagon's saying they think Saddam could have stolen them before

war. Right.

[maddezmom]

75. bet there were right there in the rabbit hole with him

:eyes:

[LynnTheDem]

86. Pentagon's lying and we got SOLID PROOF of that.

Those explosives were intact and still IAEA-sealed in MARCH 2003...AFTER the invasion started.

And ain't it funny how the invaders talk about the PRESIDENT of IRAQ "stealing" his own stuff.

Anyways, those explosives were at Al Qaqaa in March and early April, 2003, and under the TOTAL FULL RESPONSIBILITY OF BUSH from the first day of invasion until they disappeared in April 2003.

And other "senior administration officials" from the Pentagon today admitted the explosives were on-site until AFTER bush's invasion.

bush = GUILTY.

[OutsourceBush]

79. This is an unacceptable situation - someone has to be held accountable

[Tight_rope]

84. Hate to tell you Kerry...But we all know what happened!...Bush fucked up

AGAIN!....it's the story of his life. Bush*=Major Fuckup!