Teacher sends feces home with 6-year-old

[bluestateguy]

DALLAS -- A teacher is on paid administrative leave after sending a first-grader home with feces in his backpack because the boy went to the bathroom on the classroom floor.

The teacher apparently was frustrated with the 6-year-old student's actions so wrapped up the waste and sent it home with the boy Tuesday along with a note, Dallas school district spokesman Donald Claxton said.

more

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2813029

[liberalmuse]

1. If the child is having accidents at six...

such as a bowel movement on a classroom floor, that can be indicative that he is suffering emotional problems or some form of abuse at home. Shame on this teacher for making a bad situation much worse. 'Paid' leave? I don't think so.

[xultar]

2. That is what I was thinking, way to scar the child even more! n/t

[rocktivity]

3. She needs the paid leave

I presume that being convicted of creating an unsanitary nuisance carries a fine. The least she could have done was called the mother and arrange to have him hospitalized.

:headbang:
rocknation

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. This is a sign of

sexual abuse.

This kid needs help, not derision.

[LeighAnn]

29. Teacher sounds abusive to me; Look up "Encopresis" on Google

Why would people assume there was abuse in the home? Several in this thread have suggested that, even though they have no information about this child's home life. If this kid has emotional problems, they could just as well be because of this abusive teacher.

Oh by the way,

Encopresis (soiling) is the diagnosis given to an individual who passes feces in inappropriate places either with or without intent. Some estimate that it affects from 3 to 8% of the general population of children, with boys being four to five times more likely than girls to have encopresis. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual - IV, which delineates disorders, for a child to be diagnosed with this problem, he must be at least 4 years old, not have some physical or medical problems and must exhibit the problem behavior at least once a month for three months.

Q "My 6-year-old still has "accidents" and soils his pants. Should I make him clean it up?"

A. A 6-year-old child with a soiling problem should be evaluated. It is important to rule out any physiological reason for the problem. Without a physical or medical cause, parents may do best with guidance from a mental health professional about setting up an appropriate behavioral plan. One of the most important tasks for parents to do is to handle their own frustration with the child's "accidents." If a child is involved in the cleanup, it should be done without fanfare. It is best for a parent to stay calm about the situation rather than embarrass or reprimand the child.

[SemperEadem]

64. or the kid had a 24 hour bug

and was too afraid to ask the teacher if he could leave the class and use the bathroom.

some schools forbid children leaving class to use the restroom--they can only use it between classes. A six year old is not an adult--they are going to be prone to accidents, especially if there is an intimidating adult standing in the way of the toilet.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. Encopresis

is very common in kids who have been sexually abused. I teach disturbed kids. This is an unfortunate problem we deal with a lot in special ed. So I am not just throwing this out without any facts to support it.

Think about it logically. Something horrific has happened to a child. He doesn't know how to tell anyone what happened. So he leaves a pile of poop to get attention.

[Cheswick2.0]

74. Sexual abuse is the most logical answer

The person most statistically to be abusing the child is the biological father. There is no reason to beleive the teacher is abusing the child. She made a mistake but if she was frustrated then it seems to me that the child has done this on a regular basis. It is too bad no one at the school has the sense to call childrens services to have the home investigated.

[LeighAnn]

82. Let's see those stats!

Let's see the stats where the biological father most statistically sexually abuses the kids. My guess is you made that up, which I will apologize for saying if you can provide a link to the stats.

"No reason to believe the teacher is abusing the child"
What she did gives me not only reason to believe, but a preponderance of the evidence to conclude the she did abuse the child, at least on that day. You really thing that was the first time she behaved abusively?

What, to you, indicates in this situation that there is abuse in the home? Where's the probable cause of abuse?

So you suggest bringing Family Services to this child's home, why? So they can take him away and put him in a foster setting where he's ten times as likely to be drugged, beaten, raped, and killed?

Please all you do-gooder know-it-all-about-parenting types, think of what you may be sending a child into if you bring the corrupt Child Protective Services into a family's life. They generally ignore obvious abuse, preferring to concentrate on families who's attitudes they don't like, people who claim they have "rights".

When they can get a person to admit to abuse, that person usually has little trouble getting their children back. People who insist they are innocent have the proverbial snowball's chance in hell. Please quit advocating people calling CPS unless you have probable cause to believe a child is actually being abused. Nothing I've seen in the four or so paragraphs indicates that.

[GiovanniC]

103. I Love How, Without ANY Information

This kid's already been diagnosed for psychological problems brought on by sexual abuse, and that the biological father of the child has already been convicted of that sexual abuse without ANY fucking basis whatsoever.

Quite frankly, there isn't even enough information to confirm that the kid has ANY father in his life -- biological, stepfather, or otherwise.

A kid craps on the floor and suddenly his complex mental, psychological and social problems are divined by the swamis on this board. I'm not saying that the kid hasn't been sexually abused, I'm saying I don't know. And neither do you.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

105. And what credentials do you have that allows you to make....

...such an interesting comment?

My bet is that you have NO credentials whatsoever.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

106. So what was in the note the teacher sent home?....

...was it: "I'm not taking any more of your son's crap!!"


:hurts:

[goddess40]

39. Could be a medical problem

Sensory Integration dysfunction - some that have it don't get the signal to go to the bathroom until it is too late.
Regardless of the reason this teacher should be fired and sued by the parents. Sorry, but there is no excuse for doing this to a 6 year old - I'd classify it as abuse.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. It's never been a medical problem

when I have dealt with it. About a half a dozen times in ten years. Every single one of the kids I have known who did this had been sexually abused.

And a couple of them had parents who warned the school that their child had problems controlling his bowels.

When this happens now, it sends up a red flag to us at my school. We have about one kid every year have 'accidents' like this. Sexual abuse is a HUGE problem.

[izzie]

4. Little old for a kid that is normal to do that.

An error at 3 but 6?

[donco6]

5. From a school administrator . . .

. . . that teacher is an idiot.

[burned]

6. from a teacher

I wonder just how many piles of poop she had to clean up before she cracked?

[donco6]

7. Probably several.

But you never exacerbate a situation that's already bad by doing something stupid like this. And you NEVER put the child as the go-between.

[Nay]

12. And I wonder how many times she has tried to have the child

sent for mental health evaluation and been rebuffed by the school administration and the parents ("There's nothing wrong with MY kid!"). I woulda cracked, too.

[Nana]

24. from another teacher...

...I would assume she would call the custodian...just like you do when there is vomit, etc...

..and she should have reported this situation to her state's child abuse department as this might be a symptom of problems at home...by law, she must report this herself and not rely on the determination of any other person in the school...

I can't believe she'll have her job for long now...and I hope not..

[marshall]

107. another teacher

Having taught school for six nerve racking years, I can atest there were times when I thought about doing something like this, but thank goodness I never did. Undoubtedly this was not the first thing to happen with this child and the teacher was probably more frustrated than you can imagine. The school may not have had an organized system for the teacher to turn to in dealing with problems. So often administration just tells you to deal with it yourself and shut up. Additionally, students who are incontinent are a health hazard to others and are not supposed to be in regular classrooms. And there have to have been problems at home--but often the parents expect the school to solve those problems and so they kick up a huge fuss when something like this occurs, never mind that the problem has been ignored at home.
The teacher did wrong, but there are lots of other places to put the blame.

[DemBones DemBones]

30. That's a typical school administrator's reaction, blaming a teacher. eom

[donco6]

49. Well, it was her fault.

I'd make sure she was non-renewed on the next cycle. I'm assuming she's probationary. Only probs could be that horrifically stupid.

[salin]

56. well, in this case,

it seems appropriate. The teacher, not the administrator, packed up the... er... "packet" and sent it home in the child's backpack.

I have to wonder, however, about the level of services in the school. Seems to me I would worry about the child having medical or psychological problems... was there no one to whom the teacher could refer the child? If so, did she? If not, then perhaps the teacher's actions were as much a cry for help as was the student's action.

[Cheswick2.0]

75. from a teacher... the teacher may not have handled it well but

the administrators are idiots too. Why didn't they know this is a sign of abuse and call authorities?

[GiovanniC]

98. Maybe They Left Their Magic ESP Hats At Home That Day

n/t

[NashVegas]

8. Inappropriate But Oh So Poetic

Neglectful parents expect all too much of our teachers. Is there a better metaphor than this for a teacher to tell a parent "YOU take care of your kid?"

[colonel odis]

11. is that going to make the parent take care of his/her kid?

or is the kid just going to get into more trouble at home?

if the child's doing stuff like this, then it's obvious the parent(s) haven't been taking care of the kid. i doubt this would start it.

if you can't put up with this sort of thing, then don't be an elementary school teacher. i'm not saying i would have done any better, but i don't teach first grade.

[Kire]

33. as if I wasn't going to vomit hard enough

you had to post that

[Blue_Roses]

10. how sad

for the child. What a stupid teacher.

[The Zanti Regent]

13. i know how it feels to be abused by teachers

I had an 8th grade algebra teacher scar me for life. He repeatedly humiliated and insulted me. it took years for me to recover from the scarring.

Oh, yes, he WAS the president of the NEA local...

[maxsolomon]

17. did you poop on the floor?

if not, then: WHAT A DICK!

[NashVegas]

27. Abused By TEACHERS?

I'm sorry, but if a kid is shitting in class, his problems go a hell of a lot deeper than the teachers. The kid has major trouble, such as an abusive or neglectful home.

[Ruby Romaine]

14. Is this part of the "Texas Educational Miracle"?

n/t

[DBoon]

18. Will this teacher be Secretary of Education under Bush term II?

eom

[latebloomer]

15. I like the district's spokesman's comment

"It generally appears the teacher was trying to help raise awareness with the family," Claxton said.

Oh, I'm sure that was her well-thought out and sensitive plan!!

:eyes:

[maxsolomon]

16. as a non-teacher & daily dog-shit picker upper

you have to stand back & admire the verve. just pick it up with your hands inside a plastic bag, turn it inside out, tie it off, & hand it to the little bugger.

[TexasSissy]

19. That pooping doesn't sound like an accident to me.

That's the sort of thing a kid would do intentionally. I don't know much about psychology, but if the kid did that intentionally, it sounds as if that kid has some serious problems.

The teacher? This is the sort of thing that would help if I would know the teacher to know if s/he was just being mean or was genuinely frustrated. It would also help to know the history of the 6 year old in that class. Prior incidents? Parent denial of problems? It would help to know this.

This kid needs help. The teacher's actions are a side issue. I hope the parents take heed and get that kid to a psychologist.

(I think teachers are just people who are trying to teach kids the abc's. They are not psychologists or social workers. Sometimes I think too much is being asked of them. So I'd just chalk this up to the teacher reaching a limit of frustration with a problem child, unless there's evidence to the contrary.)

[Kimber Scott]

20. My son peed his pants in first grade after the teacher refused to let him

go to the bathroom. I'd like to know the "rest of the story."

[Missy Vixen]

91. I'd like to as well

I peed my pants in kindergarten one day after repeatedly asking to go to the bathroom. Since I went to school in the same town kindergarten through high school, I have been reminded of this fact more than once by former classmates. (Gosh, I can't imagine why I was just not that enthused about going to the various class reunions...)

I guess I should be thankful that my teacher didn't send it home with me in my backpack. My mother told me that I was so traumatized by that teacher that my parents thought it best I repeat my first year of school with another teacher, ANOTHER fact that former classmates reminded me of at every available opportunity.

Yes, it really happened.

Julie

[Bozvotros]

21. I understand the teacher....

The Bush boy has taken a dump on us for the last four years and I would like to send as much of it home to Babs and Poppy as I possibly can.

[short bus president]

22. I cannot believe the PC, "poor kid has a problem" shit in this thread

The little fucker SHIT ON THE FLOOR, IN A CLASSROOM. That kinda thing ain't in ANY TEACHER'S JOB DESCRIPTION. Even if it's indicative of abuse at home, or some kind of mental problem, I cannot begin to understand the internal workings of the people here who view this a "cry for help" or some other such psycho-talker-invented bullshit PC euphamism for SHITTING ON THE MOTHERFUCKING FLOOR OF A CLASSROOM.

OK, so maybe sending the poop home with the kid was not right. The teacher should've alerted the principal or some counselors or something and gone on a smoke break. No need to hang around in the classroom after someone's little fucking genetic mistake of a monster has shit the floor, right? You know what, though? THAT'S the kind of thing that'll make a person snap. Little fucking shitmonsters crapping on the floor in your classroom? Yeah - that's gonna send a person over the edge. Just fucking give me a break on the "poor innocent child has a serious problem" nonsense. That child oughta be evaluated for any psychiatric problems, sure, but also punished for SHITTING ON THE GODDAMNED FLOOR OF A CLASSROOM.

[donco6]

25. Whoa.

I really, really hope you're not a teacher or have anything to do with kids in school.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

53. whoa/2

i agree! who was the adult in this situation?

there is a problem here. could be any number of things from abuse to physical or emotional problems. what this teacher did was heinous under any circumstances. there is no further or 'whole' story here that excuses this witch.

[w4rma]

26. Calm down, guy. The kid was in first grade and this is near the beginning

of the school year. This is probably the first month or two that the kid has ever been to school.

[Castilleja]

57. I am glad to see someone finally say this.

He was 6!! That is just not that old, and way early in school, not to mention that no one here was in the class to witness exactly what happened, or what kind of pooping it was ie., on purpose or not allowed to leave to go, or "oops!". My kids' classrooms still had bathrooms IN the class at this grade level, because things happen.

Not to mention that the janitor could have been called for this type of thing, as is customary, rather than humiliating someones 6 year old as well as the parent. Who is the adult here, indeed!

[sandnsea]

32. Bull, with kids, it's ALL in the job description

Any teacher, or human being, ought to know that. How can you get MORE angry at the misbehavior of a little kid than you do at the misbehavior of an adult? If this teacher can't handle a little poop, this teacher can't handle kids at all.

[NashVegas]

38. Bull Right Back

By the age of 6 a kid should have control of their sphincter. It is abnormal development for a kid that age to not have control, and if he did it on purpose, we're talking even more problems. I have no anger towards this child, but all the scorn in the world for parents who are incapable of devoting the time and attention needed to assist their oh-so-precious progeny to engage in publicly acceptable behavior. Shitting in a classroom is not acceptable.

Ever hear of a little thing called the 'anal' stage? That part of development where kids learn the control to put off the gratification of taking a shit and for most, it's accomplished by age 3. If this were a pre-school day-care center, you might have a slight point

[goddess40]

41. There are medical disorders that cause this

Why would a kid do this on purpose? Why would he make himself an outcast? If by some outside chance he did it on purpose, he needs help not punishment.

[NashVegas]

43. If That Be the Case

one would expect the kid's parents to inform the school, wouldn't one?

[sandnsea]

46. More happyland

Where you assume just because a parent informs a teacher of a child's problem, the teacher automatically listens. Trust me, they don't.

[tblue37]

66. Yeah--

I babysat an 8-year-old boy for a week this summer because his parents had no place to put him before school started. The child was referred to me by a parent whose daughter I was also babysitting for that reason.

The little boy's parents warned me that the boy had ADD, which was no problem, since I am extremely knowledgeable about ADD and experienced and skilled in dealing with ADD children and ADD students of all ages.

But after spending a few hours taking care of the child I couldn't help chuckling to myself. They had considered it necessary to tell me he had ADD, but they had not bothered to mention the child's Asperger's Syndrome!

Fortunately for them, I am actually pretty knowledgeable about Asperger's and handling an Asperger's child is no problem at all for me. In fact, I rather got a kick out of the kid, and he and I got on famously. However, I can just imagine how he has fared with other teachers and babysitters who suddenly find themselves having to deal with a child like that, without having any prior warning.

Also, although I know Asperger's and can handle it with no problem, I have to imagine that a lot of the people who have taught or babysat this little boy were totally flummoxed by his behavior and had no idea what it meant or how to handle it. No doubt that is why the parents have so much trouble finding someplace to put their child during those periods when school is not in session and no other organized activites are available for him. (I will take care of him over Christmas break, too, I imagine.)

When the father picked the child up the first day, I asked him if he had ever heard of Asperger's Syndrome, since the fact that they had not told me about it in advance raised the possibility that they might not know and therefore might not be aware of why their child was so "different" or what might be done to make life easier and more enjoyable for him--and them.

When I asked the question he gave a guilty start. Oh, yeah--they knew he had Asperger's. But he still didn't explain why I was not prewarned.

I wonder how hard it has been for this little boy, being sent to be taught or cared for by people who don't know what is going on with him or how best to deal with him. Without information, they might easily think he is being naughty or recalcitrant when in fact he is not at all. Hard for the teachers and sitters, sure--but especially hard for the child.

So I have to say, if the little boy in this story had significant emotional or physical problems, there is no reason to assume the parents would have made the teacher aware of them. In fact, as was the case with my little friend with Asperger's, the parents might well have decided to hide the information and hope the teacher wouldn't notice it.

[short bus president]

60. Seriously, now. If it was an "accident"

the kid would've shit his/her pants, not the floor. Shitting one's pants at age 6 might be a mistake. Shitting the FLOOR OF A CLASSROOM at age 6 is an aggressive act, and the mentally malformed monster should be dealt with as one who has committed an aggressive act against the teacher and every other student in the room.

[tblue37]

68. Not necessarily.

He might be fully aware that he has no other pants to change into and that he doesn't want to wear soiled pants all day, and yet still not be able to get to the bathroom in time.

[phylny]

97. It worries me greatly that anyone would call a six-year-old kid a monster

let alone "mentally malformed." I hope you're not in any position to work with kids, and I say this as someone who works with children every day - children with disabilities. So what should they do to punish this child?

We don't know the full story. There could be many underlying factors that we don't know about, including the possibility that this child may be receiving, or perhaps should be receiving, special education services, that the child is being abused at home, that the kid might have had a fever of 103. We just don't know.

As adults, as much as it might bother some people, it's *our* responsibility to help children and stay in control. This little "monster" may need serious help, and it helps NO ONE to put crap in a bag and send it home. Dirty underwear in a double-wrapped plastic bag SHOULD go home. Crap picked up from a floor? No.

[sandnsea]

45. lol

Oh, you live in happyland where you just push buttons and everybody behaves exactly as you command. Good luck with that.

Again, the 6 year old's behavior isn't acceptable. It's part of a teacher's job to find out what the problems are and make recommendations to resolve them. It's much less acceptable for an adult to behave the way this teacher did. In fact, there's absolutely no excuse whatsoever for the teacher. The kid is just a kid.

[donco6]

48. Absolutely.

And any teacher of any calibre would have known better. No matter how far she was pushed, putting a bag of shit in a 6-yr old's backpack is never, ever acceptable.

[DenaliDemocrat]

58. and

Asking someone who spent four years of their life to earn a professional degree to pick up shit is fucking ridiculous. I do not condone the teacher putting the shit in the kid's bakcpack, but there is no way ANY teacher in a normal classroom setting should have to be puttin gup with stuff like this. If it was a special ed room, that is different.


See, this is the problem in America, everyone wants to fix the blame not the cause. Now, I am assuming this kid did this on purpose, has no medical problems, and did this because of behavioral problems. IF that is the case, what the FUCK is a kid who is prone to taking a shit on the middle of the floor doing in the classroom?

What about the other kid's right? Why does no one ever talk about that? Personally, if my kid had to watch a little boy purposely shit on the floor, I would be irate, probably would be going to see a lawyer. Why should my kid have to put up with this nonsense? Is this not infringment on the other kids' rights? Let's put it this way, if someone took a shit in the middle of the library, they would be arrested for indecent exposure, but in a SCHOOL setting, it's acceptable and should be tolerated? Obviously it's not criminal because we are talking children, but that still does not make it acceptable.

I don't mean to sound heartless, but I am sorry. I believe I should be able to send my child to school and not have to worry about them being subjected to another child taking a shit in the middle of the classroom in front of them.

And any principal who let the teacher deal with this kind of garbage is a big pussy and should be held accountable for making the teacher and the other kid's put up with this nonsense.

[donco6]

62. Well, all I can say is:

Shit happens.

[phgnome]

94. Welcome to the real world...

Asking someone who spent four years of their life to earn a professional degree to pick up shit is fucking ridiculous.

Whoa! That'd be a really I-art-holier-than-thou attitude for the teacher to have. That's like saying nurses shouldn't clean up after patients that soil themselves because they didn't spend years of their life earning a degree "just to pick up shit". Besides, the teacher couldn't have been asked to do so because every school has at least one custodian.

A lot of us also spent 4 years earning degrees just to do stupid things that our jobs involve. I'm sorry but a degree is no excuse to be exempted from certain things a job entails ... people holding degrees are a dime a dozen. We all do it...I do things that aren't necessarily in my job description if a client needs me to do it. I don't believe teachers should be exception to good work ethics.

I believe I should be able to send my child to school and not have to worry about them being subjected to another child taking a shit in the middle of the classroom in front of them.

Hey, it's a learning environment and besides, this is a natural body function. It's important for children to learn that there are people in society who have problems and how they are to be addressed -- it's probably a more important lesson for your child to learn than the whole year's cirriculum.

[Cheswick2.0]

77. why not?

Why is it not acceptable? It's his bowel movement after all. I'll bet the teacher had told them several times he was doing this. Why shouldn't she send it home to them?
The kid's probably being sexually abused. You don't seem to be aware of that logical reality. Are you sure you are a school administrator?

[donco6]

81. Did you forget a sarcasm button or something?

Because I'm not sure you're really serious.

[NashVegas]

51. Voluntary vs Coercion

It's part of a teacher's job to find out what the problems are

The only part of a teacher's job in discovering the root of any kid's problems is that part which deals with learning difficulties which keep a kid from advancing in education.

Some teachers, some magnificent beings who go the extra mile, do so of their own volition, but control of bodily functions is generally not considered the realm of a teacher's responsibility and one cannot expect them to take on this responsibility unless one is willing to sacrifice all parental control to the school district and other governmental offices.

and make recommendations to resolve them.

And it's a parent's job to see they are resolved.

The kid is not "just a kid." The kid in this case has major developmental problems. There are not enough details supplied to get a full idea of exactly what happened, but I feel safe in assuming it's one of two things: this is not an isolated incident for either the teacher or the student in question. One or both of them have control issues.

Nowhere in this thread have I said the teacher's action was appropriate - in fact, the opposite.

[knitter4democracy]

55. Actually . . .

In a public school, depending on the health issues and the IEP, a teacher is responsible for control of bodily functions. That one went through the courts when a teacher and her administration said that she shouldn't be responsible for a student's need to be catheterized periodically through the day--courts said she was if the nurse wasn't available, so the teacher was trained and had to do it. We studied the case in college in my Mainstreaming class.

One of my profs always said that if all parents knew the power of the IEP, they'd all want one, which would likely destroy the system. Children with a label, physical or mental issues, cost ten times what the others do.

Personally, I think the teacher snapped. The boy probably really needed to go to the bathroom at the wrong time, and the teacher lost it on a bad day. I know that, when I was teaching, I had bad days in which I said the wrong thing to the wrong student and had to apologize for it later.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. And I hope

you are not a child therapist.

[Puglover]

99. Ever thought

of an anger managment class?

[DemBones DemBones]

23. Glad to see some others recognize that

it is not normal for a 6 year-old to pull down his pants and defecate on the floor in front of a roomful of other kids.

This is different from kids who accidentally wet their pants, which is something that primary grade teachers expect.

Though her action was extreme, if the teacher is reinstated, I'll bet this kid won't crap on her classroom floor again.

[JuniperLea]

54. bet me

if this kid has a physical or emotional problem, this teacher just made it worse.

[realFedUp]

28. Leaving no children's feces behind.

well...it was so obvious.

[pacalo]

31. I'm very surprised at the mob mentality directed toward this child.

There wasn't enough information included in the article to jump to any conclusions, yet several opinions here are based on the assumption that the child pooped "in front of the class". The circumstances weren't mentioned in the article.

My child pooped in his pants in kindergarten, despite asking the teacher several times if he could go to the restroom to no avail. The teacher, with whom I had many conversations previously, had told me that she & her husband did not want to have children, that her dogs were enough for her. As one of her parent volunteers, I was able to witness firsthand how cold-hearted she was toward the children. I always thought of her as one of those teachers who chose the profession for the generous vacation time, rather than to inspire an interest in learning for the children.

I do wonder about the circumstances in this case. I've seen a lot firsthand.

[Carolab]

34. It would help

to have more background on this matter. Still, I think the teacher should have called the parent(s) in for a conference with a school guidance counselor. If this had already happened, and the behavior continued, the child should have been sent home for the parent(s) to deal with his problem and unless/until his behavior could be corrected he would not be permitted to attend school. But, the poop in the backpack was inappropriate and, as has been pointed out, could only serve to exacerbate this child's problem(s). My son was in first grade under the tutelage of a born-again (childless) teacher who decided that I was neglectful because he showed up with grass stains on the knees of his pants. She sent him home with a note for me containing religious references. Rest assured, I had the principal on the line immediately asking for a cease and desist of her proselytizing, and then I had a good sit-down with her and explained the difficulties of getting grass stains out of blue jeans when you have a rough and tumble little boy and are washing his clothes in water so hard that even a softener doesn't help much. I also had to chew the principal out for not allowing my son to have a lunch pass one day when I forgot to give him his lunch money--the a'hole called me at work and told me my son would not be eating for the day because of it. Incidentally, this principal later was charged with child molestation (not my child, thankfully)--and dismissed.

[DemBones DemBones]

35. I keep reading posts about "mean" teachers

not allowing kids to go to the bathroom whenever they ask, but no one seems to realize that teachers are expected to keep their students in the classroom, with scheduled bathroom breaks. That's been policy since at least the 1950's. If you don't like this policy, don't gripe about the teacher who has to abide by it; tell the principal, the superintendent, the school board. Start a campaign to change the policy.

[donco6]

50. We also expect the teacher to use her judgment.

In this case, it was obviously flawed.

[salin]

59. Wouldn't hire her

very poor judgement. Also indicates a growing problem... when those working with kids, hold the kids in contempt.

I have (and do) work with challenging students (higher grade level) - and it does take creativity, at times, to deal with unusual (and unpleasant) situations that arise, in order to prevent repeat performances. But I always want to make sure that the adults working with the kids, like kids to begin with (and thus tend to ask "why" something is going on - while at the same time managing it... rather than beginning to view their students as "little shits" (pun intended)) and sadly... there are too many that work with youth/children that have come to view their charges in such a way. I also expect some judgement.

Likewise, I would hope that the administrators would ask the same thing... WHY - not just about the student but also about the teacher. Are there no support services accessible in the school to which the student could have been refered (nurse/medical; psychiatric)? Is there an atmosphere where if students are refered that it is an indication of teacher incompetence, and thus while services may be available - teachers don't refer for fear of professional consequences? The contempt for those one is overseeing, sometimes isn't just a teacher/student issue, but sometimes also an administrator/teacher issue. All of it should be explored when such an incident (the response by the teacher) occurs.

[tblue37]

65. When I was in elementary school

in the 1950s, each classroom for grades K-4 had a small washroom with a toilet and a sink. That meant that a teacher didn't have to let a child leave the classroom and escape from under her watchful eye if he said he needed to go to the bathroom.

Also, back then kids that young tended to be much more respectful and obedient, and therefore far less likely to fake an excuse to get out of the classroom and then wander around the halls getting into trouble--or going into the bathroom to play around and cause trouble with friends who had escaped from other classrooms.

Nowadays, the only option in most classrooms is to let a child go out to the restroom in the hall, and a teacher busy with the sort of crowd control required in the modern grade school classroom must then worry about how long Johnny has been gone and what sort of trouble he might be getting into in the bathroom. She can't leave her students unattended in the classroom to go and check on Johnny, either--that's a no-no.

I think it would be great if there were adults hired as hall/bathroom monitors. But of course that would cost money, and one thing we don't do in this country is spend money on necessary things for education.

I teach college English. But for one year a couple of years ago I substituted on and off in our local elementary schools. The following commentary that I posted on my Teacher, Teacher website explains why I won't ever teach in a public school again, even though I used to regularly do volunteer teaching in my own children's grade schools when they were young:

"The Inmates Are Running the Asylum!"
http://www.teacherblue.homestead.com/inmates.html

The kids were constantly asking to go to the bathroom, and it was evident to me that the request was often a scam. Yet I am also aware, from having run a home daycare for 18 years, that young kids have tiny tanks and often do need to use the bathroom--and are not always able to control the urge if asked to wait too long. And nowadays parents (and schools too!) allow kids to fill up on soda and juice, so that they need to use the toilet even more often than they would if they were not sucking down diuretic liquids.

Obviously I would never send poop home in a kid's backpack. On the other hand, I have to wonder what got the teacher to that point. With the litigiousness of today's parents, most teachers are afraid to enforce even reasonable rules. It seems that she must have been driven to distraction to do something that dumb.

Of course, she could just be some nutcase, but usually those types get spotted and relocated fairly soon, because administrators fear lawsuits. I am more inclined to thinks she was at the end of her rope and just not thinking clearly.

As for the child, we don't know a thing about the details and significance of what he was doing or why, so we should not pass judgment on him without further information. Nor do we know enough about the teacher to unequivocally condemn her, even as we deplore her act.

[Virginian]

85. Maybe the rest room was occupied

and the kid was standing in line so long that he couldn't wait any longer.
There is a big discrepancy in the meaning of the term "just a minute" depending on which side of the bathroom door you are. Some things can't be rushed and others just can't wait.

Little kids have nutty logic. If this is a first graders' logic that the bathroom door is locked and it is better not to soil the pants when it is coming out on it's own anyway, then the teacher has a problem. If this was a case where the child made no effort to get to a bathroom then the teacher still didn't do the right thing, but the child has a problem and needs to be helped through it.

In my area, teachers are so different from the teachers who taught me, you would think it was a different profession. These are trained professionals who practically minor in child psychology. That was a science hardly known in my student days. I thought this was the standard for teachers everywhere, I guess not. It makes me appreciate how my tax dollars are spent.

[Borgnine]

36. You know...

...if I could temporarily inhabit Bush's body during Thursday's debate, the first thing I'd do is stand up, pull down my pants, and poop on the floor.

I'm just saying.

[Cronus Protagonist]

37. What IS this CRAP?

Just projecting what I think the mother must have thought...

:)

Fascism: We Report You Decide
http://cronus.com/fascism

You might be a Republican if...
http://cronus.com/quiz

Commentary by a Republican...
http://cronus.com/republican

The REAL Republican Platform...
http://cronus.com/platform

Bush's Illustrated Resume
http://cronus.com/bushresume

Isn't That Strange?
http://cronus.com/oil

:)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. The article doesn't say whether the kid deliberately pooped on the floor

or whether he had an "accident."

A lot of people on this thread are being harsh toward the kid, but there ARE medical conditions that could cause a 6-year-old to have an "accident."

One of them is spastic colitis.

[kayell]

44. More Details: "the boy kept asking to go to bathroom"

http://www.nbc5i.com/education/3759467/detail.html

"According to the student's grandmother, the boy kept asking to go to bathroom and the teacher got frustrated. The grandmother said the teacher wrapped up some of the waste and included a letter to the child's parents."

[William Bloode]

47. We find this out.....

After so many snap judgments, and the sick depraved minds that had to scream "He was Abused!"

Some of you folks are just sick, if abuse was the first thing on your mind.

[silverpatronus]

79. not sick, just realistic...

a lot of kids are abused and don't report it, or it's never discovered. people look for warning signs. this kid's behaviour was a warning sign. luckily, this time, it wasn't abuse. but it happens far too often that people DON'T think 'this could be a sign of abuse'.

[sendero]

100. When people see exactly...

... one "warning sign" and even that one is inadequately described and their first conclusion is "abuse", yes, they have a problem.

[NashVegas]

52. Great - I Wish They'd Publish the Letter

..

[Nana]

61. I'm going to step back in..

..and risk repeating from my earlier post..
as a teacher for 17 years in the public school system.

1) There was no need for this teacher to pick this up..we call custodians for such situations (vomit, etc.)

2) If the teacher suspects in any way, form, fashion, has an inkling, anything at all that this was a symptom of child abuse, then he/she needed to call and report this to the child abuse authorities within 48 hours..not to the principal, nurse, counselor, etc. It never hurts to inform them..but we are required by law to report this ourselves or we could be held liable..period.

3)Bathroom breaks: Well, that's a tough one...good judgement is imperative. I teach middle school..where, facts are facts, this request can be manipulated for free time out of the classroom. And, often, one child goes, then another, and another..like a domino affect. However, if I err, I do so on the side of caution and trust the child has a legitimate request. One child goes at a time, however, and, of course, when you see a pattern of repeated requests, then you might want to look into the situation further and determine if there is something else going on. Our principal prefers we not let them go but asks we use our judgement.

4) That teacher wouldn't last 1 more day in our school system or any system I've taught in. Humiliation is NEVER an appropriate teaching tool or disciplinary measure..and that means humiliation of the child and/or parent. He/she faces legal action for this, I'm sure.

Again, I apologize for the repeated info but added some to clarify...


That said, I need an avatar..I feel naked without one..whole other post there, I guess...LOL

[donco6]

63. Amen to everything you said.

The most sensible post I've seen on this thread.

[knitter4democracy]

69. Thank you

That was all exactly right. That teacher wouldn't have lasted in the schools I taught in, either. If you're going to snap over something like that . . . seriously, you're in the wrong job.

[Carolab]

87. How about an announcement

before class begins, "if anyone needs to use the restroom, you can do so now. We will wait for 5 minutes before class begins. Any requests during the class period will not be granted unless there is an emergency."

[Nana]

101. Well, our school builds in time..

..between classes for these necessary things...as does every school in our our large district. Unfortunately, at an upper grade level, if we did this, everyone would go and disrupt every room down the hall...:) But, your idea is usually in place and provided between classes. :)

[tibbir]

92. I agree with everything you said.

When I was in kindergarten back in the 50's I was deathly afraid of my teacher. She was an A-class bitch. She told us in no uncertain terms that we were to go to the bathroom at our recess and not after we came back into class. One day I had to pee and was afraid to raise my hand. I did anyway but she never called on me. Finally I had an accident.

I didn't say a word to the teacher and she didn't say anything to me the rest of the day. I was so humiliated. The next day my teacher called me up to her desk and whispered to me that from now on if I had to go to the bathroom it would be ok for me to get up and go even if she hadn't called on me. I said ok and that was the end of it as far as we were concerned.

She called and told my mother and I wasn't too happy about that but I understood. The main thing is that she didn't humiliate me in front of my class. Kids are generally merciless about things like that - I'd have never lived it down.

What that excuse of a teacher did was inexcusable. That the school district is only "investigating" the incident while she's on leave is pathetic. What possible justification could she have for putting a 6 year old's crap into his backpack?? Regardless of whether he's being abused at home, he certainly was humiliated abused in his classroom. And he's only 6 years old for crying out loud.

[Tippy]

67. Now really, what do you expect as punishment in

George Bush's Texas?

[Nana]

70. ..and I'm a Texas Teacher..

...and most of us will do anything in our power not to act as if we are in G.B.'s Texas..oh, no...ugh..makes my stomach hurt...

[TheCentepedeShoes]

76. Whatever the child's problem

mental/physical/behavioral - the teacher had a duty to handle the situation as the adult in charge. Clean up the mess, take the child to the school nurse in case there's a "bug" (and please forgive me if the nurse is not there that day because of Pres. Dimwit's cuts) and advise the Principal to call the parents and appraise them of the situation.

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. I agree

this teacher did the wrong thing,regardless of the child's problems.

[nine30]

78. Wish the same thing could be done to George W Bush..

..after all he has been crapping on this nation (and others) for so long.

[vetwife]

83. That teacher would be leaving school with a butt load if it were my kid

I would make her pee and crap on herself. I would. when it comes to the kids, I get crazy. She should be so lucky ..if I didn't beat the crap out of her first ! I mean this I would have stomped her where she stood. I would have given a whole new meaning to the Texas Two step ! I am passsive to a point but when it comes to my kids....passive goes out the window and I would go to jail..Have twice before over my son who is 35 now and somebody went to the hospital (not me) and I was never convicted ! That was in 1978. I am meaner now ! I lose control of my faith, my convictions of non violence, my turn the other cheek, the whole thing goes right out the window. I will hurt people when it comes to my kids ! Either in the wallet or elsewhere but I will hurt them ! Wallet or butt. Same general area and close to their brain !

My grandson did something similiar when his Mother deserted him at 5.
He was traumatized. We have since adopted him but no one got upset, we got him counseling and who knew he would ever do such a thing over her not coming home for days on end. That is over and done with now..she is history. But it could have happened in school as easy as my Dad's home. Maybe the teacher reminded him of something that had traumatized him . I'm not a doctor but I am a Mother and this was abuse by the teacher..plain and simple. She needs another job.

[Nana]

84. I'm still thinking about this..

..and now to add to my previous thoughts...the health risks are ridiculous. I wonder how long this was in the child's backpack or whatever..what about the other children, staff, parents (in receipt and at the school)...I mean, the school would be responsible for the incompetency that led to any health ramifications due to this action and they will, I promise, likely be reported to the health department in this city...the more I think about it.....GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

[vetwife]

86. You are 100 percent right Nana

[JSJ]

88. more than one piece of shit in this story

The teacher's response to a troubled child's behavior is truly barbaric and yet she gets a paid vacation.

[Endangered Specie]

89. If I were the kids, parent...

I would have taken my kids shit, added my own special blend, as well as that of any pets, and made sure it came in close proximity to her when she least expected it.

[Endangered Specie]

90. Teachers, can you please explain why...

so many of y'all refuse to let kids go to the bathroom when they need to? What is the point? what does it accomplish? I grew up with the vast majority of teachers doing this to me and it didnt really 100% stop until college.


It does nothing but torture the kids, and you know what would happens if you tried that shit with adults.

More than one time, I had to go, the teacher wouldnt let me, I went anyway, none of them tried to stop me (though was punished afterwards... didnt care), if they did stop me, it wouldnt have been pretty.

[rucky]

96. not all teachers, but it's a management issue

5th grade teacher,here.

FYI if anything happens to a kid during school hours, the teacher is liable.

the burnouts, power trip teachers and overprotective ones have seen the bathroom privlige abused too much or do not have the management skills (or trust) to have anything but a draconian policy in their classroom. there's recess or some kind of break every 90 minutes MAX in an elementary school - and not even infants have to go to the bathroom that often, so I sort of understand if a teacher chooses to be sparing of bathroom time. In my classroom, we have a bathroom pass that students can use whenever and I don't care (nor is it my business) if it's urgent or not because they probably need some alone time (it gets crowded in the classroom) and wouldn't learn much - and/or be disruptive to the class - if they didn't get it. It's pretty obvious when bathroom privlidges are abused, so there's really no point in taking a preemptive policy. The rule is and should be - go straight to the bathroom and straight back to class when you're done. that's usually pretty clear to the kids, and (reasonable) things made perfectly clear are usually obeyed.

[Nana]

102. I teach 168 kids...

spread out in 6 classes....middle school..the classes are 70 minutes long...and there is built-in Restrom time between classes. It is not just about managing your own classroom but not disrupting 8 classes down the hall as kids go to the restroom. In middle school, and I'm not overstating this, a teacher who is lax on this will have a child in the hall ALWAYS as one asks, then another, then another, then another....and that is assuming the teacher has a "one at a time" policy in place. If they let more than one go at a time, you will see lots of socializing in the restroom and the breaks being used as a tool to get out of class and visit friends, which at middle school, is the most important priority of all. Another factor in all this..material is missed when a child is gone from the room. When you teach as many kids as I do..168...it's more difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to catch up kids who miss sections of lessons simply because there are so many. Those are facts, not excuses.

That said, there are some common sense guidelines to ensure that bathroom breaks are used responsibly:

1) Get to know your kids. If someone asks everyday in every class, there is a problem. (It could be medical..I always discuss this with the nurse before determining my solution.) Talk with the child and/or parents to learn more about the child and possible reasons behind frequent requests.
2) Use common sense. It's amazing how much this eliminates problems.
3) And, probably the best strategy of all, Make your lessons interesting and exciting so that kids don't want to leave the room.

Yes, there are a few of us who have control issues..most of us are not this way, though...most teachers I know really do care about their kids. I've only known a few who really shouldn't be teaching...and, unfortunately, they do exist. The rest of us, though, make life a bit uncomfortable for them. And, let me tell you, the kids will make their lives miserable....bless their (the kids) hearts!

[Endangered Specie]

108. Ive always been of the opinion...

that if a kid does not want to be in class, there is no reason to keep him/her. It is likely that they will be more of a disruption in class than out of class, so letting him "leave" would actually be helpful to the rest of the class.

Furthermore, if a kid needs to go, he aint gonna be learning much anyways with that "pressure" (so to speak) on him

The designated bathroom time (in my experience) is very little, especially with the high punishments for being tardy to class. The bathrooms are usually sparse and/or full during this time, and the time itself is quite short to begin with and usually only enough to get from one class to another. Usually middle schools schedule only enough time to get from class to class to avoid socializing, it was 4 mins for me in mid-school, and 7 in high.


Few people I know can do some of what they need to (*even worse for girls) in 2-3 minutes tops.

[Nana]

109. Honestly..

..we are responsible for these kids and their safety. It would be irresponsible to let them wander at will.

I did state they should use good judgement. I never said don't let them go..if they are obviously in need..let them go, I agree. But, kids know how to "dance" with the best of them to get out..and then you'll find them down the hall meeting that special "guy" or "gal."

I take the same breaks as the kids and make it to and back...(i'm a girl, too.) I'm at the end of the hall and have to trek as far as any student to make it.

That said..you have to be in a middle school classroom to really understand the full picture..and you have to accept that many will abuse the restroom pass as a reason to wander the halls.

I still stand behind my remarks...good judgement is the key.

[phgnome]

93. Responsibilities of the system

Both the teacher and the administrator should have:

1. Avoided the "frustration" by having a custodian clean it up.
2. Documented each instance of it happening to determine the frequency of occurrence.
3. Brought in a child health professional (psychologist or school nurse) (don't tell me the school doesn't have psychologists on staff) to monitor the situation over a period of time
4. The health professional should assess whether or not there is a problem with abuse or if it's a physiological condition -- I'm sure there are methods of determining sexual abuse in a clinical setting -- a health professional would have the legal authority to recommend the child be brought into a clinic for evaluation before any other child services agency is called in.

Whether the cause is abuse or physiological -- the problem still needs to be addressed. Both the teacher and the administrator were unwise in assuming that the parents know how to correct this, if it were a medical condition. It is the responsibility of the school to give some guidance to the parents in how to correct the problem.

[Nana]

104. Mostly agree..but...

"4. The health professional should assess whether or not there is a problem with abuse or if it's a physiological condition -- I'm sure there are methods of determining sexual abuse in a clinical setting -- a health professional would have the legal authority to recommend the child be brought into a clinic for evaluation before any other child services agency is called in."

Let me be 100% clear...we are NOT (anyone in the school, teacher or health professional) EVER to determine if there is an abuse problem or psychological condition...we are required by law to report any suspicion of anything to the state authorities in that city and let THEM determine what is or what isn't a problem. That is a real misconception...people think that if a teacher isn't sure or a nurse isn't positive the "bruise" or whatever is from an abuse situation, we don't report. Absolutely incorrect. WE MUST report if we are suspicious at all or face being liable for not doing so. We must let the authorities in the state make the determination, however.

So, the child service agency MUST BE CALLED at the first suspicion of a problem. And, this must be done within a 48-hour period!

Or the reverse, people believe we have the authority to make that determination..we absolutely do not. We can only report what we are suspicous of and, then, it is out of our hands, in a sense.

[aaronbees]

95. yuck.

In no way is packing the shit back up and sending it home a "teachable moment." What does that communicate? Shit in my place and I'll throw it back at ya? Yeah, that sure does wonders with six year olds. The teacher should be flushed right outa there.