Mrs. Knox on 60 Minutes tonight

[Carolab]

Just watched CBS evening news and Dan spoke to Mrs. Knox. She again said that although she believes the memos are fake the CONTENT IS TRUE. The CBS VP said they will "redouble their efforts" to answer the questions about the authenticity.

There will be more on Mrs. Knox and the whole thing tonight on 60 Minutes. Watch!

[0007]

1. Mrs. Knox will knock the freepers on their keister tonight!

[rocktivity]

26. That's exactly what she did, LOL!

She's put them between a rock and a hard place. If you think she's right about the documents being bogus, then how can you NOT believe her when she says that Bush missed drills, disobeyed an order, and upset her boss?. It makes perfect sense to me that Killian would have typed the memos himself (or have an administrative aide do it) and kept them in a private file--it would be to his advantage that his secretary knew nothing about them! LOL!!! Well done, Dan Rather! You've been out-Roved, Rove!

:headbang:
rocknation

[tjdee]

2. Man, those ratings are gonna be good.

I really really hope CBS has a greater smoking gun.

And of course they wouldn't admit this in polite company, but I hope they have someone verifying the cocaine at Camp David story, because that fits quite nicely with the whole Guard story.

Come on, somebody--I want to hear that the current pResident of the United States had a cocaine habit for almost twenty years! Sure, it has nothing to do with Iraq/jobs/etc.... but I would love to see the neo-cons explain THAT to the children!

[AlCzervik]

5. I hope Mrs.Knox has her own file that she brings with her

[JoFerret]

115. Kitty Kelley was pretty clear on that

...the Doubleday lawyers went over that book with a fine-toothed comb.

[MnFats]

3. But DAMN! How many people stopped listening after "They're fake?"

Rove and the others know viewer/reader fatique.
They are counting on many, many people to drift away with some fuzzy conclusion about , "Oh, those, I heard they were faked. They just did it to get Bush."

then they order another splash of veterans who never met him saying 'i know he's not fit to lead.'

this is the dirtiest f****** campaign ever. My hatred toward these usurpers grows daily.

[JohnnyCougar]

68. Oh come on....Rove isn't behind EVERYTHING

Rove isn't superman. He's just some feeble minded sissy who is good at exploiting the bad sides of humanity.

[slinkerwink]

4. I'm procrastinating my homework tonight so I can watch 60 minutes!

This ought to be good!

[RamboLiberal]

6. It's very simple - Bush didn't think he had to go by the rules

like others did - Mrs Knox.

Freepers may have opened up a can of whup ass on their boy!

[Pirate Smile]

7. SH#$. My CBS is showing "Last Flight Out" WTF!!!!!!

Now it is scrolling at the bottom of the screen that I can watch 60 Minutes at 12:35 a.m.


:mad: :nuke: :grr:

[LisaM]

17. Where are you?

Is someone compiling all the stations that won't show it?

[Prodemsouth]

25. Call them and tell them you will all all the advertisers on this movie

and tell them you will boycott them for sponsoring this chicken shit station that is afraid to report on anything negative about the BFEE.
Organize others in your area to send a petition to all advertisers to boycott until they play this in prime time. This is should not stand.
This is the worst kind of chicken shit.

[Corgigal]

42. Same here-Charleston SC

called the local station and bitched. Then I was lucky to find a number with a human answering at CBS NYC/60 minutes. Turned their asses in. He mentioned this is happening in other area's also and that they can lose their license.

[last_texas_dem]

59. Mine, too

KFDM in Beaumont, TX isn't showing it either. This surprised me since they showed the story last week. I hope this was planned far in advance and isn't due to FReepers down here bombarding the local affiliate with hate mail causing them to censor tonight's show. Not too surprised, though... KFDM does show The 700 Club.

[aquart]

8. Okay, she's already misinformed.

Bush did NOT have that campaign to do. He was forced on the campaign when he totally blew the guard. We already know that from Mrs. Allison.

Hope the rest of her statement is more impressive.

I did like her saying Georgie didn't think the rules applied to him.

[truthisfreedom]

46. yes, but misinformed by whom? bush himself, at that time! this was the

cover story presented to her very office... it's the story she would have heard and believed. right?

[chelaque liberal]

60. Not really. I'm sure that was the story they told in Texas.

[Kierkegaard]

9. The teaser was better than all that!

She also said Bush had his own agenda: a campaign he had to work on. And he went and did it!

[RareLubbockDem]

10. Not Shown--AGAIN!

Lubbock Texas. Preempted so they can bring me a special movie presentation of "Last Flight Out"

Anybody else?

[Nite Owl]

11. We're on here in NY

[Kierkegaard]

12. Oh my God.

What thinly veiled censorship!!! Someone at the cable company would have some splainin' to do if they tried that shit here. Fortunately, I have satellite so unless they shut off the power, I'm golden.

[Orangepeel]

37. WASN'T censorship. The movie was scheduled before Mrs. Knox

my cable guide said that the movie was going to come on, but my local CBS station showed 60 minutes instead. They ran a blurb on the bottom of the screen that the movie had been moved to 9:00.

The cable guide info would have been created before Mrs. Knox was scheduled.

[RareLubbockDem]

41. i agree...

Just did some research. It was schedule, at least as early as Sunday when the guide came out. Oh well. They're showing it on delay at 12:30am. Just ticks me off that the repubs around here can't watch it. It's not easy livin here!

[Pirate Smile]

13. Cedar Rapids, Iowa - Last Flight Out . Arrgghhh

[baldingrockwarlord]

28. central illinois...

same thing...stupid movie....60 minutes is promised at 1:30, not to mention the evening news on CBS blacked out right after the hurricane lead story, and my cbs channel on cable didn;'t pop back up until evening news was over. All other channels worked fine.

[RamboLiberal]

29. Last Flight Out - isn't that a Billy Graham production?

Figures the Fundies would preempt 60 Minutes!

[Pirate Smile]

93. I didn't stay on it but it was definately a fundy show.

[leQ]

30. mason city showed it

and she was great, especially when dan cornered her on the killian son rebuttal: he had no way of knowing. kablam!

[Habibi]

43. "Last Flight Out"

on the schedule in Rochester, NY, too.

(edit to correct typo)

[Kierkegaard]

14. What happens if the content is true, but they are forgeries AND

KKKarl Rove is exposed as the source????

Wouldn't that be sweet?

[0007]

94. It certainly is looking that way, isn't it?

[progressivebydesign]

15. I think we're jumping the "fake" memo bandwagon too soon...

This nice woman, Mrs. Knox, remembers in substance what that the memos reflect true events, the fact that she doesn't remember typing them, doesn't shock me. They're not fake memos... I don't think they're fake. I'm in my 40's, and have done my share of typing.. AND I worked in a National Guard Armory for a while, and typed those very same things!!! NOthing , NOTHING would have been left in handwriting... AND.. I WOULD remember, sentiments in that office, would I remember WHAT memos I might have typed for those Officer's??? No way. I would not be able to tell you about events there, I could NEVER say that a memo was, or was not typed by me.. or someone in my absense, or later TRANSCRIBED to be PART of an official FILE. It's called CYAA!! The Officer probably had his memos transcribed later.. to clean up the file. That happens.'

I'm not calling this woman's memory in doubt, because of her age.. but not one person who has done typing for another, would remember specific memos.. not after all these years.

The important thing is that she is corroborating the sentiment behind the memos.

[Snellius]

54. She also contradicts Killian's daughter

who claimed she did not know of any private papers and questioned why he would right such memos (To cover his ass, dear).

Knox's confirmation that Killian even had personal files is important. Why or how could someone forge documents exactly like similar documents kept in a private file? It's just too outrageous to assume they were completely made up of whole cloth.

[KittyWampus]

67. She Specifically Said She DID TYPE SIMILAR MEMOS- Not These

she DID type CYA memos for Killian with same content.

But these had incorrect ARMY terminology inappropriate for TANG document.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

92. Then where are HER memos?

Why didn't Rather ask her about this? And also when she last saw the folder containing those memos and where it was kept.

[Norquist Nemesis]

100. Agreed. I'm sticking with the for real until proved otherwise but

one thing about when a secretary types memos...usually his/her initials appear at the bottom. When I was a secretary, I would put the bosses initials and mine separated by either a colon or a slash. The colon meant it was transcribed by the boss, the slash meant I wrote it on the boss's behalf for him to sign. :)

Maybe this was not SOP for the TANG, but it was certainly standard office procedure most everywhere else.

[RareLubbockDem]

16. Just called my station

They said it was a "business decision made many months ago....." I said I didn't buy it. She sounded young and innocent, so I didn't wanna rip into her. She said she's getting lots of calls. I could hear them ringing as we spoke.

[kainah]

18. good for you for calling to complain!

That's what people have to do. That's what makes a difference to them.

And, hey, WELCOME TO DU!!!! :hi:

[Pirate Smile]

20. The CBS channel in Cedar Rapids has a RW wacko running it. His

commentary at the end of the 10:00pm news is always straight from Rushes ass. Last night it was something about Kerry's betrayal of the men in Vietnam and how he hurt the POWs or something. I couldn't believe it.

I flip over after the Daily Show to see Letterman and I keep ending up seeing this asshole.

[Protected]

73. That sounds like Mark Hyman from Sinclair Broadcasting

My local CBS affiliate, owned by Sincliar Broadcasting Group, has been broadcasting these freeper propaganda pieces for a while now. However, my local station has not been preempting 60 Minutes or the CBS Evening News.

[Pirate Smile]

87. Yes, it is Mark Hyman and I'm watching the slimeball right now

www.newscentral.tv This cite lists the scripts of the commentaries he reads. Right now the one he just read isn't up yet. You can even e-mail them to people.

"Right now discussing Winter Soldier Meeting, Jane Fonda, connecting Fonda and Kerry, saying Kerry lied about not knowing Fonda, Winter Soldier Mtg was anti-American and used against POW's, the partisan media doesn't want you to know about the Winter Soldier Investigation - discrediting it, blah, blah, blah "

Unf#cking Believable. They spew this crap every night after the local news. Disgusting.

[Cats Against Frist]

74. What Channel is it? -- Do I get it in Iowa City?

Not that I want to watch right-wing commentary, but I could always send him a letter, if he pisses me off.

[Pirate Smile]

86. Here is the information from another thread

Cedar Rapids info

Guess what? It's a Sinclair station!!!

Owner's website:

http://www.sbgi.net /


Station site:

http://www.kgan.com /


KGAN STATION INFO


Street Address-
KGAN-TV
600 Old Marion Rd. NE
Cedar Rapids, IA 52402 Mailing Address-
KGAN-TV
PO Box 3131
Cedar Rapids, IA 52406

Business Hours-
8:00 am - 5:00 pm (Monday - Friday)

Email-
[e-mail]

Comments about the website-
[e-mail]


Phone Numbers

319-395-9060 or 800-642-6140

for KGAN News call 1-800-222-KGAN or 1-800-222-5426


FEEDBACK LINK:

http://www.kgan.com/kgan/feedback.shtml

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x818509

[henslee]

19. deleted

[rocktivity]

21. This is totally damning

He refused the physical! The other pilots resented his absences! He had an above-it-all attitude!

And Dan concludes: "(There are) those who have criticized aspects of our story, but not the heart of it." Still want to do that congressional investigation, Karl!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Norquist Nemesis]

103. "Those who have criticized" is the MO of

Bush...both I and II. Attack, destroy, and discredit the messenger. Deflect from the message.

[kath]

22. OKC station showing "Last Flight Out"

bastards.

[Digit]

23. * is in deep doo doo!

Considered himself too good to go by the rules.
Disobeyed orders, could never remember the secretary's name.
Missing much of the time.
Bad attitude.
The list goes on.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

24. Saw it...Secretary story rings true...nails Bush, but memos fake.

She was good....pretty explains what happened....Bush got a pass.

But she also says CBS memos arnt from Kilians Pearl Harbor file...but whoever wrote the CBS memos knew what was in the file...

Plot thickesn.

[truthisfreedom]

27. but look at the QUANDRY that has been created for rove... now, he can use

Mrs. Knox's very credible position that the documents are fake, but he can't use her opinion without also making her credible for her observations and memories of bush's refusing a direct order.

but, if he attacks her as an old, unreliable witness who doesn't remember, then he's suggesting that she's not correct or reliable about the memos being recreations!

this was a brilliant and strategic manoever on the part of CBS. they aren't scared... instead, they have allowed rove and the bushies to paint themselves into a new corner!

[NNN0LHI]

31. I think you may be on to something n/t

[skordane]

35. Validating the Memos

Doesn't CBS have other unrelated memos from Killian. If they are formatted similarly to the Bush memos that would be pretty good proof to me that the Bush memos are genuine.

[truthisfreedom]

45. the validity of the CONTENT of the memos is what is important here. the

explanation for why they may have been "re-created" was provided by Mrs. Knox herself. she has, with CBS's fabulous strategy and timing, created a perfect storm for rove to deal with, directly concerning george w. bush's STRENGTHS... that of LEADERSHIP and TRUSTWORTHINESS. this was exactly what we needed... an attack on bush's credibility specifically addressing his fake credentials as a good and moral leader.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

56. Validity questions are key too.....lets play Miss Marple...

....the source is going to be key, and there will be a cloud until this is revealed.

Now...private CYA file....who had access to it...who inhertied it...who could have retyped the memos.

My bet is this went the the Colonels famliy, and someon in the famliy is the source.

Or a fellow officer who Kilian let review the file.

[KittyWampus]

70. Killian's Family Already Debunked Memos. If They Gave Them To Rove

then they are complicit.

[Carolab]

32. Totally incriminating

Dupe

[hansolsen]

38. High C, your old buddy from DFA. I agree with you about 60 Min tonight,

this was devastating for Bush. This woman has 100% credibility and she nailed Bush for exactly what he was and is. All privilege and no rules. That is why he feels he can lie to the American peole and get away with it.

This doesn't get Rather completely off the hook, but I bet he'll sleep like a baby tonight. The "heart" of his story is dead right.

[wrate]

96. Absolutely. She nailed the arrogant idiot. Everything she stated

is consistent with the attitude and behavior that the world has seen from the chimperor.

[Carolab]

33. Totally incriminating

Mrs. Knox is completely incriminating because of her complete credibility.

She gave Bush praise for being a "gentleman" while saying his attitude was that he was "above reproach" and "didn't have to obey the rules", which led to resentment among the other pilots and anger in his commanding officer. She also said that she believed SHE didn't type the memos but acknowledged that Lt. Col. Killian kept his own "secret file" that documented his problems with Bush. She said that she had actually typed OTHER memos for Killian that contained the SAME complaints about Bush.

I agree with Caliphoto above about recalling exact documents she may have typed, since I have (sadly) typed thousands of documents myself in my lifetime. However, she might have recalled the formatting and language, since she was a dedicated Guard secretary and Killian's right hand. I liked her alternative explanation that it appeared that someone had duplicated the contents of other of Killian's memos and had "changed some things" in order not to "get into trouble". I also liked her saying Killian's son "had no way of knowing" whether or not the documents were real or fake.

Let's assume that the contents came from Killian's "journal", and someone made the contents up into memos so that they wouldn't have to personally deliver the journal and as Mrs. Knox said "get themself into trouble". Or it could have been done on the receiving end--someone had read memos that were in the possession of the person to whom they were addressed--like Staudt, for example.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

47. ...that "alternative explanation" opens up alot of questions.

I liked her alternative explanation that it appeared that someone had duplicated the contents of other of Killian's memos and had "changed some things" in order not to "get into trouble". I also liked her saying Killian's son "had no way of knowing" whether or not the documents were real or fake.

Or maybe he did? What happened to the Pearl Harbor file????...if it was personal stuff wouldnt the family have it????....& if they are dedicated GOPers....hmmm.....

This could be really wild, when you think about it....man now I'm getting fitted for a tinfoil hat!

[hoi polloi]

34. Why did Rather Choose Knox?

I respect elderly people, but not all of them have a clear memory of events in their past. I wouldn't depend on an 86 year old person to vividly recall events of 30 or more years ago. I would think Dan Rather should have gone with more proof of where 60 minutes got their evidence? To base it all on the memory of and elderly 86 year old is IMHO, not enough. Yet, he failed to address where CBS really got the incriminating info. Therefore, I was disappointed.

[Carolab]

36. You are wrong

Elderly people's memories of the past are "crystalline". This is documented fact--as you get older you recall earlier events more clearly than recent ones. Unless you have Alzheimer's--and this woman clearly does not.

So, in older adults, long-term memory tends to go unchanged, while short-term memory tends to slow down. This is why you can remember your wedding in rich detail but can’t remember what you needed from the store. It now requires more conscious effort to move data from the working memory into long-term memory.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/memorydr/Memory%20and%20Aging.htm

[JDPriestly]

57. My mom's 87 and has an amazing memory.

Throw out your stereotypes about older people. Ageism is just as bad as racism. This lady probably remembers Bush very clearly.

[Jackpine Radical]

63. Even WITH Alzheimer's,

the older memories are the last to go.

[LiberalFighter]

84. My grandmother was like that

She was remembering events when my mother was a child. Didn't really know me.

[Carla in Ca]

107. Thats right

The last time I saw my grandpa before he died, He thought I was my mom and I didn't correct him. He was happy.

[DoYouEverWonder]

44. This lady is still a sharp cookie

There a big difference from person to person how the aging process will effect you.

This lady looks and sounds like she still has all her marbles.

[Sandpiper]

48. One of the fundmental tennets of journalism is

Never reveal your sources. If you're waiting for CBS to spill the beans about where the documents came from, don't hold your breath.

[hoi polloi]

66. Journalistic farrago

Using an 86 year old woman, or take out the age, and say using one person's opinion to provide testimony of what really caused CBS to go with this story just doesn't make it. I think that 60 minutes should have been able to come up with much more than just this woman. That they did not disturbs me.

[leesa]

81. Are they done or are you just wishing they are done?

You seem to have a bit of a bigoted opinion of older people. She was the guy's secretary, how much closer can you get?

[hoi polloi]

82. not bigoted at all.

I guess even at my age, approaching retirement, even being a doctor, as I am, I definitely find it quite difficult to recall details of what happened to me 30 years ago when I was a medical student. Did I use this typewriter, or that one? I couldn't begin to recall that. I couldn't even tell you what beer I drank at the local university pub, or whether I used a bic pen (were they invented in 1969?) or some other writing insturment. Maybe I am dumb, but I think that people that can recall details of what happened 30 years ago are few and far. That is not bigoted against old people at all.
I think the point is not this lady, but CBS perhaps groping by using her to make their point instead of really getting the message out there of what they said and the proof of why they said it. Give us the real proof of what they reported! That is what angers me.

[Only Me]

83. She is was credible and she was there. An eyewitness to events that are

directly related to the issue...By the way, my grandmother is 98 years old. She still lives by herself with out live in care. She is very spry and has a very good memory about her life, political history and just general events better than me at times. In my personal opinion, her credibility will be hard to impeach.
And I didn't think CBS as "groping", I see it as a major first step to more steps.

[tabasco]

88. I smell desperation, Doc.

My Ma is 86 and remembers better than anyone in my family. Nice try though. I find it hard to believe a medical doctor would post such ignorant tripe.

[Carolab]

89. If I had worked with son of Bush

I would definitely remember it, and I would especially remember events like these--the favoritism, the attitude issue, the resentment on the part of fellow pilots and the CO. I can see NOT remembering the details of typing this or that memo. But I definitely see remembering all of the facts surrounding the situation.

[LiberalFighter]

85. Also... play the story out

Just like they did with OJ
Just like CNN does with their news... mostly as filler

I bet they have more evidence

[Orangepeel]

49. he didn't address where he got the memos because its a confidential source

if you are waiting for that, you are going to be disappointed for a long time

welcome to DU, by the way :hi:

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

53. He may have been ratfucked by his "source"...

....I bet CBS is looking into that too....

[riverwalker]

50. he "chose" her....

because she was there. (Unlike the Swift boat liars)

[fishnfla]

52. i deal with old people all day long

Man, this lady was sharp as a tack. Very credible.

[yardwork]

61. Rather says he has other proof. He's been working on this for 5 years.

Mrs. Knox is not the main source for this story.

[candy331]

72. Long term memory kicks in as you age, if you are so fortunate to get there

can't remember breakfast this morning but remember event 40 years ago as if it was yesterday. The amazing brain, wonders as to how it works.

[LiberalFighter]

90. The way I look at memory...

What you ate for breakfast this morning rates a 0 or 1 as far as importance.

Something that doesn't happen on a regular basis might rate a 10 if it had enough impact.

Each person is different and how the brain catalogs data. Repetition also is a factor for memory. When I am focused on genealogy I can flow from one person to another and know who belongs to which family. Most likely, that info will be with me when I am in my 70's and 80's.

I know generally, what I ate for dinner/supper from 1990 to 1993 because generally it was one of two items. I know what vehicles I have owned in my lifetime. (Bet there are many that know that and more about the vehicles they had previously owned)

I remember the flood in our little town when I was about 4 or 5. Don't remember the age exactly but do remember it was the first place that I lived at. Remember the bunny I had as a pet and the smell of the straw during the same time period. I remember my first day at school and sitting in the same desk as my aunt. (Aunt is 8 months older than me and the school was small... town of about 200 or so... might had been smaller at the time)

[leesa]

80. Well, she was the secretary. Duh.

[liveoaktx]

95. Wrong-my 96 year old grandma recently died and she was sharp

as a tack until her last few months with cancer. Her younger brother is 84 and extremely sharp and active as well. He remembers things that happened years ago with clarity, and a lot of his stories are backed up by written info from the time periods he converses about

Lose your prejudices and hope that you are as lucid as a lot of the elderly are when you get to that age.

[0007]

98. My 92 year old father is as sharp as a tack and can remember

dates, places, times and contracts. He is a rare exception and after watching Mr. Knox tonight, I believe she's extremely sharp also.

But your right, most old folk are pretty poor at remembering even their name.

[saskatoon]

113. Elderly peoples memory!

SURELY you know that Elderly peoples memory for YEARS ago is terrific, it is recent events and/or years that is a problem. I'm 86 and I have first hand knowledge re this.

[KennedyGuy]

39. They keep talking about a journal

that Killean kept...maybe rather has this.

[yardwork]

65. A journal! That would be very interesting!

Wow.

[hansolsen]

40. This was devastating for Bush. N/T

[cureautismnow]

51. Why No Elaboration on Missed Physical?

She had lots of damning memories of Bush-boy's flagrant disregard of military rules, but Rather should have probed her recollection of the missed physical further.

He should have asked her why she thinks he disobeyed Killian's direct order and missed that last physical. He had taken physicals before then. She must have had some suspicion as to why he balked at the last one. She did say that he wanted to go work on that campaign, but that's no logical excuse for allowing yourself to be grounded over a perfunctory order that you had followed many times before.

Dan has just got to get a "cocaine witness" out there to figuratively and literally blow the lid off this mainstream-suppressed story!

[Carolab]

55. Everyone who had an affiliate bump it

COMPLAIN!!!! AND LOUDLY! To CBS, as the poster above did.

THIS IS CENSORSHIP. They can lose their license.

Here in St. Paul, they ran a "flood alert" warning across the screen just as the program started. I thought that was a bit suspiciously timed.

[David Zephyr]

58. Watch a Pro Play Hardball, Mr. Matthews: Dan Rather Hits Back Against Rove

Dan Rather essentially took the entire Lt. Bush story up another notch tonight with Mrs. Knox and thereby setting Karl Rove's ass on fire.

Forget the memos.

Here's a live witness to the events (direct evidence in law) saying that Bush refused his physical and disobeyed his orders.

Forget the memos.

Now, it's time for the White House to respond to Mrs. Knox.

[napi21]

62. Will this be available on CBS website?

I had to go out tonight so I don't know if it was on here in Ga. or not. I would like to see it. Do you think it will be available on the CBS website?

[Gregorian]

76. Here it is.

Click this, and it will start automatically. Could take quite a while. I'm on broadband, and it took at least a minute.

http://bushlies2.us/

[selmo7]

112. Yes - Available on CBS

http://video.cgi.cbsnews.com/video/video.pl?url=/media/2004/
09/15/video643791.wmv&sid=3415&ad=/media/2004/09/08/video641
914.wmv

or here:

http://tinyurl.com/44htu

CBS story is here, also with a video link:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

[JDPriestly]

64. I wonder if Ms. Knox

remembers who else was close enough to Killian to have or have seen copies of the CYA memos.

One of the docs. is a letter or letter memo. I wonder if Ms. Knox prepared that one?

Back then, a secretary normally intialed documents he/she typed. It seems odd to me that no one initialed these documents. Maybe it wasn't the practice in the military.

Also, when did Killian join the military?

[Samantha]

69. The literal definition of "secretary" is "secret keeper"

By virtue of the fact this woman went on national television and stated the information contained in the CBS-acquired documents is much like the text she typed in other memoranda, containing the same sentiments her supervisor displayed toward Bush*, might go a long way in explaining why she was not the literal typist of the documents we viewed. Perhaps she could not keep a secret.

Perhaps her boss took the same memoranda she typed and working in concert with someone else, reproduced the text in another more formal format, wishing to preserve for the world in a more sophisticated manner, documentation critical of George Bush.* Perhaps he sensed the day would come when his work would come under national scrutiny and he wanted his product to be extremely presentable, not an informal memorandum to the file. Perhaps because he was dealing with an influential political family member, one known for taking punitive action against its perceived enemies, he protected his wife but not revealing his tendency to leave a paper trail covering his flank. Perhaps because his secretary talked out of turn to other secretaries, he did not reveal to her, by asking her assistance, the nature of what he was doing.

There are many possibilities here but I feel it is permissible to talk about possibilities since listening today to the so-called document experts dispute the legitimacy of the CBS-produced documents. Two of the document analysts who were featured by Chris Matthews presented no literal facts. One "analysis" centered around pretty weak supposition. It was obvious from statements they made these analysts literally had no expertise in the production of documents made during this timeframe.

A newspaper editor made the statement these documents could easily be authenticated or discredited merely by obtaining other documents produced by Ms. Knox' supervisor. If the type and format matched, the documents were authentic. If the type and format did not match, obviously the documents are false. What kind of logic is that? If you were authoring a super-secret document making adverse statements against a member of a politically powerful family, would you produce the same document in the same manner as you produced your regular daily correspondence? I don't think so. I think you would take every precaution to do so in a very discreet manner, even if that meant using different equipment in a different location, and I don't think you would mention it to your secretary or your significant other .... if only to protect them against the burden of weight of sharing this secret.

As I said yesterday in another thread, we have seen no literal facts which dispute the authenticity of these documents. What we have heard is simply a lot of Republican noise. What these Republicans truly want is to know the source. (Novak does not have to reveal his source, but then Novak is a Republican.) It's important to know the source for two reasons: (a) they naturally don't want to retaliate against the wrong source; (b) they want to know what else the source might have he or she is willing to produce that might hurt Bush* in his election campaign.

Give them the identity of this 2004 political deepthroat and the noise will stop.

[rocktivity]

97. Another example of great minds thinking alike

...(Knox)...CONCLUDED that the docs were fake because she didn't type them and hadn't seen them before...Killian may have typed them himself, or had somebody else do it, then signed them and filed them separately from Mrs. Knox's CYA file. Maybe he considered the info to be too classifed for Mrs. Knox to see...

link

:headbang:
rocknation

[Strawman]

71. Every good rebuttal begins with an "even if" and Rather's was damn good

"Even if" those are not the original memos it is a near certainty now to any reasonable person that George Bush disobeyed an order to get his physical. And Bush has never denied the central facts in that memo. It has been confirmed by about the most honest looking little old lady one could imagine who ironically seems to have liked Bush personally. Her response to the claims by Killian's son was priceless. "He has no way of knowing that." What a courageous woman.

Now they have to address the central question and then we can trap them in their lies. They will try but I don't think they can avoid it now. Kudos, Mr. Rather.

[GoldenOldie]

78. You can bet this lady has files of her own

If they question the typewriter she would have papers of her own that she typed on the same typwriter, for her personal records. I have been retired for years yet I have kept my personal, personnel records.

If George W. Bush was a big pain in the ass to the other pilots and crew members and they knew he had power behind him, you can bet that they also did memo's CYA to protect themselves from this rich brat.

[bvar22]

75. Totally credible.

Mrs. Knox could be everymans' grandmother.



I don't believe that CBS "dug up" Mrs. Knox. Her comments discrediting the authenticity of the Killian docs have been appearing from the right wing slime machine for at least 3 days. Her appearance tonight was certainly a coup for CBS!

Now the poor republicans are going to have to attack this elderly woman....Karl, can you say "goodbye" to those elderly votes (as if the phony drug program is not enough).

Rather also repeated the challenge to bush* to answer to the substance of the story.

1) Did bush* receive preferential treatment?

2) Did bush* disobey a direct order from his commanding officer during wartime?


I know the answers to these questions.
Dan Rather also knows the answers.
Soon, all the WORLD will know the answers.

Dan Rather is a master. He is playing this out perfectly for the most impact. Even if the docs are bogus, the questions are NOW MAINSTREAM!
Dan has been around a LONG time; he hasn't yet shown all his cards.

Send Dan and CBS support for having the cajones to ask THE HARD QUESTIONS! These guys are not intimidated by the RIGHT WING SLIME MACHINE!

[Snellius]

77. Video here

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60II/main3475.shtml

[Gloria]

79. I'm shocked! They showed it on the El Paso affiliate! Usually we

get all the Billy Graham stuff and other assorted preachers....

Hard to take, can't help it, I'm a Jersey Girl transplanted to a town named "The Crosses"---yikes!

[Flapjacks]

91. No one is listening

No one really cares about this crap. It's just a diversion. It we really want Bush out of the White house, we must try a different track. Keep hammering away at the mismanaged war in Iraq, point to legitimate missed opportunities and the out of control spending, but for God's sake get off the guard service. Most people I know do not care. It's older news than the age of most Democrats.

[alcuno]

99. Welcome to DU, Flapjacks. I know that people SAY they don't like this

stuff, but negative advertising works. They say they don't care about it and yet it sticks in their minds. Do people really need to be told that Iraq is a mess? Isn't that obvious? Hasn't * run on his honesty and truthfulness? You go after your opponent's strength.

[nochimp04]

101. Oh yes they are

And you can be sure that the trolls have taken notice.

[mccormack98]

104. Those who matter are watching. The media is watching.

And the media is whipping this up. The story has legs. And it has the potential to turn into a real firestorm. Very bad for Bush.

We don't care how this plays out. All we care about is that it takes Bush off-message and brings down Bush's polling numbers - which is happening. Notice that we have not been talking Swift Boats this past week.

[Strawman]

108. It establishes the frame: Bush is a dishonest, selfish person

Once that is established about his character, people will become much more receptive to all of the facts that we have been trying to get through their heads for years about Iraq, about economic policy, and everything else. Just countering Bush on every issue up and down the line won't win the election. There's no coherence in that approach.

[JoFerret]

116. ...fits perfectly with Kerry today

with his Bush-is-in-fantasy-land-of spin.
Bush lives in a world of delusion, deception, lies and spin. Seems like he always has. Theme is the contrast between Bush-world and Real-world.

[carolinayellowdog]

111. "age of most Democrats"?

In the 2002 midterms the only age group Dems carried was the 30 and unders

[Emillereid]

102. I thought Mrs. Knox was great --

very believable. It was clear that she resented the boy-king's attitude problem!

[democrat_patriot]

105. She was great!!

1. Didn't type those memo's - but others just like them.

2. Praises Bush as a nice genteel young man, but HE GOT A PASS!

3. He did not take the physical.

4. Recieved an order to take physical - see # 3.

Bring on your investigation RNC!!! You dicks.

[grasswire]

106. did anyone catch an undercurrent....

....from her toward the Killian family? The way she said they wouldn't know anything about Bush missing drills or whatever it was she said struck me as dismissive. Like I wonder if there was some tension between her and the family. It would be quite common for a secretary to feel possessive about her boss, especially in those days. Maybe she was fond of him. Maybe the family didn't treat him well. Dunno. There was just something in her voice.

[cthrumatrix]

109. they probably tried to "quiet" her .... they look like fools now

[robbedvoter]

110. Them shilling for W at the cost of discreditting Killian is enough

to make anyone close to the truth wretch. No need for invented romances.

[freeplessinseattle]

114. yes definite undertone

I loved it, the way she had her chin in her hand, looking wryly at Rather in an almost roll your eyes kind of way, and the way she said "He wouldn't know anything" was so..I don't know, perfect. disdainful, total brush-off, wry contempt. she sure is one cool lady with personality and class.