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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 09:31 AM
Original message
In Presidential Debates, a Duel of Wits and Styles
The first of this year's three presidential and one vice-presidential debates will take place a week from Thursday, on Sept. 30, at the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Fla., under an agreement announced yesterday by the representatives of the major-party campaigns.

For John Kerry, running behind in most polls, the debates will offer a chance to show exactly who he is and what he stands for. For President Bush, they will offer a chance to win over some of the skeptical voters who still consider him a lightweight, even after almost four years in office. But if they resemble past debates, the impact this year will go well beyond a mere judgment of who won and who lost. The results are usually much more complex, political scientists have come to believe in the quarter-century since 1976, when such debates became a firm fixture on the electoral calendar.

Wendy Rahn, an elections scholar who is an associate professor at the University of Minnesota, suggested in an interview that debates have become rituals - rather like conventions and the Labor Day opening of the general-election campaign - that "convince the voters that they are important, that they are wanted and needed.'' Her research, Professor Rahn said, indicates that in recent years they have functioned as glue to hold society together.

In a year in which politicians of both parties believe that turnout could tip the results in pivotal states like Ohio, Minnesota and Wisconsin, reluctant voters newly convinced of their importance might well be likely to go to the polls in larger numbers. On the other hand, Professor Rahn asserted, increased fragmentation of the television audience with the decline of the networks and the rise of cable channels might diminish the viewership for the debates and thereby change their effect.

Recent studies of the debates four years ago by Prof. Kathleen Hall Jamieson of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania and others indicate that it matters whether a voter actually watches the debates or forms an opinion from reading media commentary devoted to them. Those who watched the first debate, Professor Jamieson said, tended to think Al Gore won, while those who merely read about it reflected the view of many journalists that Mr. Bush had succeeded in making Mr. Gore look hypocritical.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/21/politics/campaign/21debates.html?hp=&pagewanted=print&position=
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. If its a "duel of wits", one of them will be "unarmed"
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AIJ Alom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. hahahaha.
LOL. Agreed.

Kerry wit vs. Bush script
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. "Half-armed" would be more accurate. :-) n/t
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Nit-armed? Dim-armed? (nt)
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MarianJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. We Will Have to do Some MAJOR SPIN!
Edited on Tue Sep-21-04 09:57 AM by MarianJack
It's very obvious that the media is in mega bush protection mode.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. I wonder if the Media Whores will declare one or all debates for *...
In 2000, I remember watching a media whore (I believe it was Bob Schieffer) declare Bush the winner of one of the debates. I remember thinking "You sure, Bob? Did we watch the same debate?" That was BEFORE I came to realize that the media was in bed with Bush and the GOP (and CERTAINLY before the election theft).

I remember one debate, the "town hall meeting" format, when an attendee ask Bush about his views on education. He stuttered and rambled on about defense, trying to equate (I guess) a sound education policy to a strong defense. I never did figure that one out, but some of the media whores after the debate gushed about Bush's "stellar" debate skills...
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kwyjibo Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. John Kerry, please be a calm debater
Don't get impatient, don't roll your eyes, and don't sigh! After the last debates, they couldn't stop talking about Al Gore's heavy sighs!
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Chimp could do nothing but
drool all over the stage and the whores would declare him the winner. In order for Kerry to get any positive coverage out of the debates, he has to come up with a few good one-liner zingers and slip them in at appropriate moments. Make chimp look so foolish and moronic that only the most diehard repukes will believe the whore spin.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. I often hear people repeating the media opinion
as gospel. Also, would one tactic be to pull something from the debate performance and make a TV ad out of it to seal or combat the media view?
I can see this happening this time if not enough people watch it, or watching it, come away unclear.

Part of the CBS thing was in effect to deflate, deflect and chasten this Babel of low yield punditry so that even radio jerks can have as much influence. The over all effect, gamed only in allowing the right to dominate the most desirable market share, is to create an overall mood where the boring considerate ponderings of somewhat pro-Kerry journalists will only INCREASE the mood of low performance as the RW hoots and hollers insanely about their clown's victory.

No wonder they don't fear debates or gaffes since Bush has already weathered career killing blunders as well as his miserable extremist record. By some type of seasonal instinct the herd of incompetent, dull witted journalists, has put everyone on a par, tabula rasa, where nothing matters except the impressiveness of the "issues" being addressed. While the great majority of fairly imbalanced media grant Bush that his cheerleaders with overweening greater influence among the Bush base run rampant, unrestrained, practically unnoticed over all this pious niceties by which their unbought compeers strangle the Kerry campaign from any semblance of reality or fighting back.

I am not convinced that the Kerry campaign gets this. Understanding is the first step to not going with the turgid flow of double dealing double standards which the dupes make possible. It does not take dirty
tactics to derail and reverse this subtext, this context and this parallel political campaign arrayed against Kerry. To have absolute faith that simply doing what the reporters SAY they expect the good candidate to do is to become one in a long list of victims, of favorites who failed precisely because the press admired them in this way.

This is a testing time. Ditch forever those who reveal their complicity or failure- such as Mr. Coelho. Forever. Forgiveness does not mean you ever have to rehire them to fail again.

"Running behind in most polls" How they have longed to say that. This is the milestone that makes Rove sigh with relief and tick off another
item on his agenda. Each one accumulates, weighing like an anchor on the PERCEPTION about Kerry, no matter how insanely untrue, irrelevant
or seemingly inadequate to the real world. This needs not to be suffered to a narrow contest but utterly shattered. it can be because on a larger scale this is exactly the media behavior that led the media to their own perception collapse in Iowa.

And not just more pumped up speeches, issue points and position papers. We know there are smart people and proven tactical wizards there. Stop reacting. Stop anxiously redacting the term paper for the drunken unsympathetic prof and get with the real world.
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cybildisobedience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. well said
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. Kerry needs to make Bush look clueless, esp. regarding facts
Edited on Tue Sep-21-04 11:44 AM by NewYorkerfromMass
Bush's 87 billion dollar vote hypocrisy is one good example. Kerry needs to make clear 2 points:
1 Troops were getting body armor with or without that vote.
2. Bush himself threatened to veto it.
Also, Bush's logic for the war is ripe for the picking, and he is becoming unglued in attacking Kerry's "apparent" inconsistencies in voting for IWR. Kerry started this yesterday with Bush's 23 different reasons for the war.
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. Debate rules established
CNN listed the conditions. One was that no candidate could utilize risers to make him look taller. I wonder which candidate is affected by this ruling? At the Gore-* debates, * insisted his podium be lowered so Gore wouldn't appear taller.
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I noticed that one too...
I'm sure as hell it wasn't John Kerry who wanted risers. He doesn't need them, but the little pipsqueak chimpanzee does.
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Aunt Anti-bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. Duel of wits and style?
Two things Bush doesn't have.
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