CNN: Dean says would consider Clark as Runningmate

[thinkahead]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/24/dean/index.html

On Sunday, Dean told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer" that -- if nominated by his party -- he would consider tapping retired U.S. Army Gen. Wesley Clark as a vice presidential running mate.

"Yes," Dean said when asked whether he would consider asking the former NATO supreme commander to join his ticket.

"There would be a great many people, of course, that would be considered as a potential running mate. And I must say, I think it's much too early to discuss potential running mates. I mean, we're five months from the time the first official vote and delegate selection takes place.

"So I find it very premature. But I think Wes Clark, he's somebody I keep in close touch with. He's a terrific person, very bright, very capable, very thoughtful. Our views coincide on a number of matters, and he is -- I certainly can't say enough good things about him. It would be tough to run against him."

[FlashHarry]

1. That would be the GOP-killer.

I think it's what Karl Rove and Terry McAuliffe fear the most.

[notadmblnd]

70. I was thinking that maybe

Their real fear is Clark running Republican. Anyone else have these strange fantasys.

[MODemocrat]

73. Clark wouldn't be foolish enough t o run on the republican ticket

We almost know that George W. is a shoe in for the candidacy, even if he doesn't get elected, so I feel it behooves Clark to stay with the Democratic ticket. I'm not all that sharp on politics, but it's just my opinion.

[Pastiche423]

2. Fuck

[FlashHarry]

3. Huh?

[w13rd0]

5. I don't think you should be dismayed at this point...

...their views DO coincide on many issues. There's no harm in his saying he would consider Clark as a running mate.

[Pastiche423]

8. I misunderstood Dean

It is good to know this now, instead of five months down the road. I'm sure my community can find someone else to lead the Dean meet ups.

[liberalnurse]

9. You got to do what feels right......

but don't be too hasty.......think about the strategy......

Apparently you have a lot of energy and passion to take back the White House. Chill and think about it....Process things here at DU.....

[Pastiche423]

11. I don't have to chill

when it comes to Clark. I've made my opinion known about the non-Democrat killer.

[Upfront]

14. Hey Pastiche 423

I feel somewhat as you do, but I won't quit on Dean over this. His judgement is the one of the big things that won my support for him. If it is his openion that Clark is a good man, then that is good enough for me. However, Clark needs to say he is a democrat to have any chance with me. Like the Dr. said it is along way to go and much can happen. If you want Bush out of the whitehouse half as much as most of us Dean supporters do, you won't walk away now. Please hang with us, we will do it! :)

[Pastiche423]

18. 1st, I can't walk

2nd, if it is Dean's judgement that Clark is what is good for our country now, quagmired in a bloody pre-emptive occupation, then he does not stand for what I thought he did.

3rd, I am a Democrat and have been one for over thrity years. I do not support anyone that can not state publically that he is a Democrat.

My mistake.

[ButterflyBlood]

23. Clark opposed the Iraq invasion

so I don't see why he'd be blamed for the current situation there.

[Tinoire]

76. Clark did not oppose the war on Iraq

He simply wanted Bush to go about it differently. People will nit-pick and play semantical games all day but Clark did not oppose either the war or the invasion. He was ALL for it- the only things he opposed were the timing and for Bush to not be in such an idiotic rush and to finesse the international community into going in there with us. The end result would have been the same. Innocent people dying over manufactured claims except that these would have been better manufactured and sold. The meaning of Clark's own article is crystal clear. A better show would have been the only difference.

Before Iraq: Strengthen allies, weaken al-Qaeda ((in other words, punch a few ticket holes before going to bomb the shit out of them))

Before Iraq: Strengthen allies, weaken al-Qaeda

By Wesley K. Clark

As the Bush administration raises prospects of war with Iraq, USA TODAY asked experts to explore critical military, diplomatic and political factors involved and the possible consequences. This is part of that occasional series.

Saddam Hussein is a cunning, stubborn opponent, as I well know. As commander of U.S. forces in Europe in the late 1990s, I watched Iraqi forces violate the "no fly zone" and defy United Nations inspection teams. He is the kind of leader who starts wars, as when he invaded Kuwait in 1990 and then struck Israel with SCUD missiles. He has a strong streak of irrationality, and, apparently, a messianic complex.

If Saddam had the SCUD missiles armed with nuclear warheads that he wants, the Middle East would face terrible new risks. He might strike at Israel or go after another neighboring state, holding his missiles as a second-strike deterrent. Or Israel might launch preventive strikes. We must act to prevent this kind of war.

<snip>

While we do this, we also should make our case against Saddam. Ultimately, he must be held to his pledge to give up weapons of mass destruction, by force if necessary. First, we should build international pressure against him. We need to simultaneously offer more tightly focused and, therefore, more effective sanctions against Iraq while increasing our efforts to open the country to humanitarian and human-rights efforts. We need to press for a U.N. resolution demanding no-holds-barred inspections, which the White House is considering. At worst, engaging the U.N. would build international support for action against Iraq; at best, intrusive inspections might slow down Saddam's weapons programs, giving us more time. Finally, we should establish "red lines" Saddam cannot cross - such as refusing to accept these inspections - that would mobilize international support for action against him.

Above all, we need to demonstrate that we ourselves are abiding by international law, considering force only if absolutely necessary.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2002-09-09-oplede_x.htm

[DoveTurnedHawk]

78. He Supported Inspections

International pressure. Months, if not years. Etc. etc.

Clark was clearly opposed to the invasion. He was right in line with the more liberal Democrats, all of whom supported international consensus and tough, continuing inspections.

I have no idea where you're getting this "Clark was pro-war/pro-invasion" stuff, because it's completely untrue.

DTH

[stlsaxman]

31. Clark HAS said ih IS a Democrat...

on both NOW w/ Bill Moyers and Meet The Whore w/ Tim The Whore...
I remember both instances distinctly.

Pastiche 423 wrote "I do not support anyone that can not state publically that he is a Democrat."

edited for spelling and quote clarification

[Pastiche423]

38. Please provide a link

where Clark has said, unequivocally, I am a Democrat and I will run as a Democrat.

You can't, because he hasn't.

[stlsaxman]

65. You are correct...

I read the transcripts and searched the "Draft Clark" sites and nowhere
does he say, unequivocally "I am a Democrat and I will run as a Democrat".

But he admitted to voting in the Arkansas Democratic primaries, so maybe
he had to register as a democrat. I'm not certain of that states voting laws.

From Meet The Press 15, June 2003:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/927000.asp

<snip>
       MR. RUSSERT: You have voted in Arkansas in the Democratic primaries.
       GEN. CLARK: I did.
       MR. RUSSERT: So if you did run for president, you would run as a Democrat?
       GEN. CLARK: Well, I haven’t said that. I haven’t made any official moves. But this is a two-party country. There’s no successful third party bids. And, you know, it’s just—that’s the way it is. And I am concerned about many things in the country, not only foreign policy but domestic as well.
       MR. RUSSERT: So you would run as a Democrat?
       GEN. CLARK: Well, I haven’t come out and said that point blank. I mean, I think that’s another step that would have to be taken.
       MR. RUSSERT: But you wouldn’t challenge George Bush in the Republican primaries?
       GEN. CLARK: I haven’t considered that, no.
       MR. RUSSERT: So it would be in the Democratic primary?
       GEN. CLARK: You’re leading the witness here.....

<end snip>

Yes it's like he's ashamed of being a registered Democrat...
maybe he's a war criminal like the freepers say.
http://www.zpub.com/un/clark.html

[Blue_Roses]

74. here's some more information

on how Clark views things:
http://www.thecabin.net/stories/081903/loc_0819030004.shtml

[dansolo]

46. What exactly did you think he stood for?

What was your support of Dean based on?

[neuvocat]

4. Let's see what we have here...

Dems have a doctor, possibly a general, and people who were actually elected to their offices.

I'd say the pukes are pukin' right about now.

[sham]

30. they're pukin' all right...

we've got the Doctor and the General.

they got the chimp and the grim reaper.


doesn't look too good from their side of the fence right now.

[caledesi]

33. I will be they are puking their guts out. Dean/Clark - WINNERS

Repugs :puke:

[colorado_ufo]

66. We must remember -

no matter how we might like a certain running mate for Dean, or any other matter, it is ALL irrelevant if he doesn't get elected! What good does it do to hold any kind of ideal, if * sits in the Oval Office for another four years - with Jeb waiting in the wings?

The best ticket is the one that will win.

[Blue_Roses]

6. that would be and awesome

ticket! Too soon to tell what's gonna happen, but just the thought of that combination is great.

:bounce:

[tedoll78]

7. Wow..

I ask a question now.. how many of the other candidates are being asked by the media about their preferences for VP? Pretty interesting.

I love a Dean-Clark ticket. A Clark-Dean ticket is my second choice, I think. Dean energizes voters like a Perot or a McCain would, and the media attention he's getting is largely glowing. Right now, it seems like Dean has stolen The Chimp's Free Press Pass (or at least made a really good counterfeit).

Watch!
If George Bush Base Vote is ~50 million again,
and if the Base Democrat Vote is ~50 million again,
and if Dean can raise turnout by a mere 4% in his favor,
he'd be really friggin tough to beat.

Watch Iowa and New Hampshire. If turnout is way up and Dean wins handily, this is serious.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

10. Their Views Do Coincide

I am a Clark supporter because I feel he is the most intellectually gifted candidate we've had in a long time and has the charisma to rally Americans against Bush. Getting Bush OUT is the goal. But I also like Howard Dean very much. The views of Dean and Clark do coincide and Clark may even be a bit to the left of Dean. I will be disappointed if Clark doesn't declare his candidacy, but I know that there's a great alternative in Dean if that happens. I will then dedicate my time and money to the Dean campaign. A combined ticket of Clark/Dean or Dean/Clark would have tremendous raw grass roots energy.

[Dover]

77. Did you even read the links Tinoire provided? Mind made up regardless?

Just curious what kind of research went into that pat answer.

[imhotep]

12. I just lost respect for Dean

Looks like I will be supporting Kucinich now.

[Pastiche423]

13. Thank you, imhotep

I don't feel so alone now.

[UrbScotty]

17. What do you guys mean?

:shrug:

[yowzayowzayowza]

25. When ya'll find...

utopia... give us a shout.

[sujan]

52. I second you

[Stuckinthebush]

24. What is so upsetting about Clark?

It sounds like a smart move to me. If Dean gets the nod, then wouldn't he do well to have a respected General on board to get moderates to vote for his ticket?

What am I missing here?

[tameszu]

37. You are missing that some people think generals are inherently

evil and would never vote for one unless they repudiated all things military like Ramsey Clark.

Also, some people are overly partisan and have failed to look into Clark's extremely progressive positions and have concluded that because he has not yet declared himself as a Democrat, he is untrustworthy.

[imhotep]

44. a few points-

I can not believe that anyone who is progressive would spend 34 years as a murdering General. The 8 years I spent in the military is what made me change and become a progressive after seeing the suffering that the United States has caused around the world.

I am sad to see anyone believe Clark just by his words because there is nothing to back it up. In fact, there are many instances of the opposite; ordering the bombing of water treatment facilities, bridges, and media in Serbia which was a war crime. Also, his ORGASMIC commentary during the bombing of Iraq on CNN was so distasteful and repulsive, I do not see how any peace loving person could ever trust this man. He has never opposed the war, just the lack of diplomacy and lies that got us into it.

[expatriot]

15. hopefully Dean was just being polite and diplomatic...

if he was thrown the question out of nowhere, this is how you handle it.... very polite. I am hoping. Dean does not need Wesley Clark, it would only serve to deflate his powerbase.

[Maple]

16. Some spec

on a TV show about something months down the road, and you're ready to jump ship?

Not much of a committment.

[JNelson6563]

26. mile wide

and an inch deep sort of support ain't what we need.

When will we learn? A maybe, could be, we'll see and watch the extreme knee-jerk reaction. Sad. No wonder we are currently in the "political wilderness".........

Julie

[tameszu]

19. Wow, amazingly enough almost all of the negative comments on this thread

Are on my ignore list.

Deanies who are tolerant of Clark, I wouldn't get too worked up about it if they're saying that they'll jump ship if Dean picks Clark. Those people are True Haters.

I think that today's statements (as well as past statements--Clark has only had good things to say about Dean) that both Dean and Clark are honourable men and would both provide wonderful leadership for this country.

I think it's interesting that Dean said he would consider choosing Clark for VP, because although I like both very much, it seems like the two wouldn't complement each other well, since they're both sort of running as outsiders. Then again, I suppose it could work, but I just think it's more likely that each would opt for someone who is less of an "outsider." I could easily see either being in the other's cabinet, though.

[roughsatori]

28. If they are on your "ignore" list how do you know they are "negative"

comments? Just curious. I thought one can not see the responses of members on one's "ignore" list. I don't know because I have never used the ignore function, nor do I plan to.

[Pastiche423]

29. When you put someone on ignore

All you see in a thread, is the word "ignored", no name, no message.

I tried it to see. I have no one on ignore. If I do not like a particular poster's opinion, I scroll past them.

So when someone claims the posts are negative, they are either lying about putting someone on ignore, or they are talking out of their asses.

[roughsatori]

32. I was going to start a lounge topic: do Clark Supporters Love "ignore"

lately I keep reading posts where people who support Clark threaten to put others on ignore, or brag about having everyone on ignore. It is kind of funny.

[tameszu]

39. I have exactly 4 people on my ignore list

And yet they seem to pop up on EVERY Clark thread. I think this is very interesting.

Ignore, BTW, beats the heck out of participating in flame wars.

I learned this from Dean supporters, BTW, and I think they were very wise for advocating it.

[chaska]

59. You're pretty hard to ignore.

I don't have anyone on ignore. Thank you very much. Actually, I find the Clark bashing to be quite an interesting study in irrational antipathy (dislike on the basis of ... what? Damned if I know - certainly not facts).

[BansheeBarbie]

34. Not Really. In Fact You Are Wrong

I use the ignore only VERY sparingly.

However, I can be certain when threads have missing posts due to my ignore input, they are written by
people who spout the same 1 or 2 lines of hate or ignorance on some particular subject.

THAT'S WHY I PUT THEM ON IGNORE

Of course everyone has their own concept of who is posting hateful or ignorant statements. :)

[Pastiche423]

67. How am I wrong?

[bsiebs]

36. So What???

Perhaps Tameszu is referring to his/her mental ignore list...not the feature on this site.

Jezzz...you guys need to chill a little...you seem a bit angry.

Anyway, to the real point... Clark HAS stated that he is a Democrat. So you can drop your complaint. Or perhaps he doesn't say it enough for you...I am more interested in his ideas and where he would like to lead this country, not how many times he states he is a Democrat ,,, hell, Lieberman and Zell Miller and countless other "Democrats" tell me they are democrats all the time, so what?

[roughsatori]

40. "you need to chill a little"

Why does that sound like a right-winger's slogan?

[bsiebs]

43. Nope ... sorry

Attack as you like..

I am simply a liberal California Democrat that thinks its better to chill out when you begin sprialing out of control (like implying others of being "right-wing" because they say "chill").

Maybe I should have said "relax"...

[roughsatori]

48. It has nothing to do with your being a "Liberal"

And to say you used a right-wing tactic is not implying that you are right-wing. I would have no qualms about just writing that about you if I thought you were that way.

If you re-read the posts you might see that I expressed no anger.Was actually making a rather light-hearted observation about the use of the "ignore" function.

I do however find it tiresome when people tell me to "chill," "lighten-up," "relax, or the most popular: "get over it." All are frequently used by right-wingers during discussions. That does not mean that ONLY Right-wingers use them.

[Pastiche423]

41. "Clark HAS stated that he is a Democrat. "

I would like to see proof of that. When and where did he say he was a Democrat? It must have been in the past 24 hours.

[bsiebs]

45. You do miss the point...

Apparently you wouldn't know a Democrat if he bit you on the ass. Why don't you read some of his positions and stop creating false issues?

Note: Vote-Smart identifies Clark as the Democrat that he is...


http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=MZZ72757

[tameszu]

35. I am guessing they are negative because of others' responses to them

I was philosophically opposed to the ignore function, too, but then I realized that there were people here who say the same thing over and over and again whose intended purpose seems to be to aggravate rather than to engage in reasonable discourse. One precondition of reasonble discourse, by the way, is a willingness to listen to others' positions and to at least demonstrate the possibility of altering your position.

The people on my ignore list have shown no desire to alter their position, even in principle, and have frequently crossed the line of civility. This is also interesting because my dissertation is related to the boundaries of reasoanble political discourse.

[JaneQPublic]

56. "Wouldn't complement each other well"? Take a look...

...Take a look at how well they complement each other:

-- Dean has executive experience, culminating in a balanced budget and a health care program in his state; Clark has military experience, culminating in service as NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander – Europe.

-- Dean has expertise in domestic issues; Clark has expertise in foreign affairs.

-- Dean brings gravitas as a doctor; Clark brings gravitas as general.

-- Dean, from Vermont, is a northerner; Clark, from Arkansas, is a southerner.

-- Dean has the “Big Mo,” as indicated by rising poll numbers, media attention, and fundraising success; Clark is respected by the public and the media, who know him through his spots as an expert consultant on TV news.

But let’s not forget the important things they have in common:

-- Both Dean and Clark are exceptionally well educated and well spoken, yet extraordinarily direct and plainspoken.

-- Both have outstanding resumes in public service.

-- They have compatible views on such issues as the Iraq War, the Bush tax cut, abortion rights, and affirmative action, to name a few.

-- Neither of them is a member of Congress, which means their election to office will not deplete either the House or the Senate of a sorely needed Democratic member (a critical consideration, when several of the other candidates represent states where their replacements would be chosen by Repug governors).

[wabeewoman]

20. I like this match

Clark fills some holes in Dean's resume. I think its a good strategy for Clark NOT to come out as a democrat yet. We've seen how much press the democrats get and Clark is getting much more (IMHO) because he hasn't said which party he affiliates with. The press is treating him like an impartial observer so far and his blasts against bush are getting press. But you can't read what he believes and think he is republican. And I don't think its a slam on democrats that he doesn't state he is one-its just good political strategy. I would not support Clark for President because I don't like the whole military/General mindset for solving the world's problems but as VP for Dean- YES! And in the end its ANYONE BUT BUSH for me!

[tedoll78]

21. I have the feeling..

That if Clark does declare his candidacy as a Democrat, he'll please us when he articulates his views further. And then he'd be much more palatable for Dean supporters as a VP prospect.

[madfloridian]

22. Get the transcript.

Dean also went on quite clearly to emphasize that he would consider others as a running mate equally. I think this CNN story is rather misleading on the issue.

We watched it, and though he said he thought a lot of Clark he also said he thought a lot of the others as well.

[SideshowScott]

27. That would be a beautiful thing!

A Dean/Clark ticket would be a democratic work of art for me with gore out..

[ilpostino]

42. Am I missing something?

If this is an accurate quote from the show (which I didn't see), where is it that Dean says he would take Clark as a veep candidate rather than simply saying, yes, I know him, I like him, we're in touch...would be tough to run against?

"So I find it very premature. But I think Wes Clark, he's somebody I keep in close touch with. He's a terrific person, very bright, very capable, very thoughtful. Our views coincide on a number of matters, and he is -- I certainly can't say enough good things about him. It would be tough to run against him."

Talk about premature. I think Dean is way ahead of his supporters on this.

[Pastiche423]

47. What do you mean?

"I think Dean is way ahead of his supporters on this."

I did not see the show, so I don't understand what that means.

[madfloridian]

49. This is being overstated here.

I watched it. He was directly asked if he would consider Clark as a running mate. He said yes. He went on to say he respected him, etc. Then he ALSO said that he would consider others as well, that many would be good running mates.

He did an excellent job.

[ilpostino]

51. This is what I mean

It's August 2003. The first primary hasn't even been run yet. There is nothing for Dean or any other candidate to gain by getting into who their running mate will be at this point. Suddenly you find yourself running for yourself and the other guy/gal. It's stupid politics. We can play around with these combos all we want on this board, but it's the political equivalent of fantasy baseball. We're making things up for our own amusement. The candidate who comes out now and says this is who I want to run with is either so desperate that such a gambit is all they got left or so dumb they're going to get killed before the primaries are over. So Dean's right. It is premature.

[Zhade]

50. Er...

Not to start a flame war or anything...but why hasn't anyone addressed the points raised about Clark's involvement in the bombing of civilian infrastructure in Bosnia?

It's not that I'm saying Clark (or Dean) are unworthy of support - I'm not yet certain who I'll support - but it should be at least discussed. If people raise this issue, we shouldn't avoid it.

[Pastiche423]

53. It has been raised

but the Clark cheerleaders claim Clark did not commit war crimes and that it doesn't matter that he was asked to step down months before his term was over. (Clark claims he doesn't know why and that he din't ask ??????)

They explain away the Pristina Airport.
They explain away the cluster bombs.
They explain away the DU dropped on innocents...

[Zhade]

54. Huh.

Well, I do know that it's not believable that he wouldn't ask why he was asked to step down. Unless, of course, he knew why already.

Perhaps some solid evidence would bolster your arguments more. I myself have many questions about all of the candidates and their pasts.

[Pastiche423]

55. All you need do

is to google "Wesley Clark + Kosovo". You will find enough links there to occupy your Sunday afternoon.

[diplomats]

58. Maybe I'm wrong

but I was under the impression stopping ethnic cleansing in Kosovo was a good thing.

[Pastiche423]

64. Silly me

I believe killing innocents to save them is not a good thing.

[deutsey]

57. Joe Trippi said to me and a group of Dean supporters last week

that Dean and Clark like each other and talk frequently with each other.

He did, caution, however, that it's too early to be discussing things like running mates (as the report above indicates).

BTW: Trippi is Dean's campaign mgr.

[DJcairo]

60. Wes Clark won't run.

If Clark joins a Dean ticket it would mean that Dean has to admit to weakness on the nation security front.

[MGKrebs]

62. He won't have to admit it DJ.

It will certainly be one of the larger issues of the campaign whether Dean likes it or not.

It's better to deal with it than try to avoid it or lie about it.

[Emillereid]

61. A Doctor and a soldier --

I say, that covers domestic and foreign policy matters quite nicely. I mean who better than a doctor to get meaningful health insurance legislation through and who better than a career soldier to 'give' the democratic ticket the foreign policy 'strength' card. (Also personally I think our foreign policy should be completely demilitarized) That leaves Bush-Cheney to represent corporate pigs.

[Muddleoftheroad]

63. I'm sure Clark will say the same thing

If HE gets the nomination.

[tboullett]

68. Clark/Dean ticket is best

Dean should be the VP at best.

[Muddleoftheroad]

69. I haven't declared

But I think that would be more electable. Maybe after some time as VP, Dean would be considered more mainstream.

[Bertrand]

71. Campaign Tactic

By saying Clark would be a good running mate, he's attempting to counter the Draft Clark movement by relegating him to his 2nd in command, floating the idea that he is presidential material while Clark isnt. Before Dean shifted his campaign to frontrunner mode, he wouldnt have even answered this, saying "its premature" and moving on.

[MODemocrat]

72. Would Clark accept being vice president?

That does sound like a good ticket for the Democratic party, but, so does Kerry, Kuchinich, etc. No matter which one is nominated, I'll be there to vote for that team. It would feel so good to have anyone except Bush in that top spot. He's getting everything so terribly messed up, it's like a point of no return.

[molly]

75. Would Clark accept Dean as a running mate - that is

THE question.