Kerry's medals were deserved, says widow of slain comrade

[Octafish]

Lt. Droz's widow describes what a Swift Boat hero told her:

Kerry's medals were deserved, says widow of slain comrade
Husband was swift boat skipper

By Jessica Vascellaro, Globe Correspondent | August 27, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Lieutenant Donald Droz knew more about John F. Kerry's service in Vietnam than most men. By Kerry's side when he earned both the Silver and Bronze Stars, Kerry's fellow swift boat captain and friend spoke often of his admiration for the Yalie he called "a real fine guy."

But Droz, a key witness in the ongoing debate over Kerry's service record, is missing from it, killed in a rocket attack in Vietnam in April 1969 days after Kerry returned home. While Droz cannot defend Kerry, his widow, Judith Droz Keyes, said she feels she must. She said she is confident that her husband would defend both Kerry's record in Vietnam and his antiwar activism.

"John Kerry was a good friend, and a loyal friend to my late husband," she said in a telephone interview from her office in San Francisco. "My husband isn't here to speak, and all I can do is to speak in his name. I don't feel I can remain silent anymore."

Keyes said that by challenging Kerry's record, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group of former veterans opposed to Kerry's presidential candidacy, are dishonoring the memory of men such as her husband who fought by Kerry's side. "The suggestion that what Don did or that the award he got was somehow undeserved is crossing a line," she said.

CONTINUED...

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2004/08/27/kerrys_medals_were_deserved_says_widow_of_slain_comrade/

[Connie_Corleone]

1. The Smearboat Vets for Lies should be ashamed.

n/t

[Octafish]

5. Here's what another Skipper had to say...

You're absolutely correct, Connie. These smear boat liars should be ashamed for what they've done. For all their self-righteousness, they seem to have forgotten what the Good Book says about bearing false witness. Here's another report we need to spread far and wide, seeing how the television media aren't doing their jobs...

Lt. Rood kept silent about his war experiences for 35 years:

JOHN KERRY'S WAR RECORD

Swift boat skipper: Kerry critics wrong

Tribune editor breaks long silence on Kerry record; fought in disputed battle

By Tim Jones, Tribune national correspondent. Tribune staff reporter Rick Pearson contributed to this report from Crawford, Texas
Published August 22, 2004

The commander of a Navy swift boat who served alongside Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry during the Vietnam War stepped forward Saturday to dispute attacks challenging Kerry's integrity and war record.

William Rood, an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, said he broke 35 years of silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans who served with Kerry.

Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission, said that Kerry came under rocket and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that was praised by their superiors.

He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were "overblown" untrue.

CONTINUED...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/elections/chi-0408220343aug22,1,2916896.story?coll=chi-news-hed


FEB. 28, 1969: ON THE DONG CUNG RIVER

`This is what I saw that day'

By William B. Rood
Chicago Tribune
Published August 22, 2004

There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago--three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969.

One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other.

For years, no one asked about those events. But now they are the focus of skirmishing in a presidential election with a group of swift boat veterans and others contending that Kerry didn't deserve the Silver Star for what he did on that day, or the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts he was awarded for other actions.

Many of us wanted to put it all behind us--the rivers, the ambushes, the killing. Ever since that time, I have refused all requests for interviews about Kerry's service--even those from reporters at the Chicago Tribune, where I work.

CONTINUED...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/elections/chi-0408220342aug22,1,2523679.story?coll=chi-news-hed

[Booster]

25. I just received a request for a donation from

the American Vets and returned it with a note that I would not be donating until Vets all over stood up for John Kerry, Max Clelland and the others. If we all do that maybe they will get the message. I did take their stamps off the envelope and used my own so it wouldn't cost them anything. It boggles my mind that vets are supporting the Coward from Crawford over Kerry, who actually served.

[hughee99]

26. The Smearboat Vets are lying

because they were not there during the actions they claim to know all about, but to ask other vets who weren't there to stand up for Kerry isn't going to resolve anything. The SBVT have no more foundation in truth to lie about Kerry than vets in general have to refute the charges. While a massive show of vets supporting Kerry would be great, I don't think it will resolve this issue.

[Octafish]

32. Oliphant's got the Smearboat Liars pegged, too.

[Merlin]

13. That's the PERFECT moniker: SMEARBOAT VETS !

This is the term we should all use. Thank you for it.

[JohnKleeb]

2. Thank you Ms Droz

From what I read about Don, he was a fine man, I bet you he would be right there with Del Sandusky, Jim Rassman, Max Cleland, the countless other vets for Kerry fighting back the lies about Kerry. Kerry left a lot of friends in Vietnam including Droz and Persh. Shame these guys aren't here today, they are forever young. Rood knows the truth too and I think Judy Droz is right, that its because of his anti war activism. This article really shows Kerry the man in a fine light, really great that he's kept in touch with the family of a friend, means to me that he doesnt forget.

[Octafish]

9. Incredible stories, theirs.

Here's some information on how Lt. Droz and some of the men aboard PCF43 died:

http://www.justasailor.com/43death.html

http://pcf45.com/sealords/silvermace/silvermace.html

Here's some information on how Capt. Pershing died during the Tet Offensive:

Richard Warren Pershing, grandson of General of the Armies John J. Pershing, was killed in action in Vietnam on February 17, 1968, while serving with Company A, 502nd Parachute Infantry, 101st Airborne Division, and today lies beside his grandfather, in Arlington National Cemetery.

SOURCE: http://www.strategypage.com/cic/reader.asp?target=CIC45

These men gave their lives so we could live free today.

[JohnKleeb]

11. brave men they were

I know that Persh was related to General Black Jack Pershing and was a long time friend of Kerry's, I believe Kerry wept at heearing his death, just a shame, I am glad that Kerry remembers guys like Don and Dick, it shows how great of a man he really is, its ironic that they say Kerry is aloof and doesnt show his human side yet I am constantly amazed at the bond Kerry has with his band of brothers, I would love to see it made in to a movie because the tale of John Kerry and the others is equivalent for me at least to the tale of the Iwo Jima Flagraisers, the brave Virginia boys on Omaha Beach, Joshua Chamberlain's 20th Maine at Little Round Top. We must not forget those who fell in the past if we do so we dishonor them.

[comsymp]

3. It just keeps backfiring, doesn't it?

I don't think that BC04 realized that by allowing these asshats to go public with their smears, they have dishonored a lot more Vets than just Kerry. I watched a couple of 'em on Norville's show last night with my VERY Republican and strongly pro-military mom, a former counselor at the VVCenters. She had already acknowledged that (for the first time) she'll be voting D in November, but her anger and contempt for the SwiftLiars was palpable... and highly verbal... when she saw 'em in action.

This is going to hurt Bush.

[nagbacalan]

7. I certainly wish you were right, but

few of these refutations make it into the mainstream media, and, never forget, we are dealing with a populace still believing in the main in the existence of Saddam's WMD. Don't be content with intellectual victories.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Wrong. The Chicago Tribune, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC,...

...Washington Post, NY Times, among others have carried the pro-Kerry stories as feature articles and/or editorials.

[Octafish]

10. Here's another Sailor who supports Kerry...

Truth trumps evil, every time.

Swift boat crewman backs Kerry version

By Joseph B. Frazier
The Associated Press

PORTLAND — A Swift boat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident that led to John Kerry's Bronze Star says that all five boats in the task force came under enemy fire and that his boat commander, who has challenged that official account, was too distracted to notice it.

Retired Chief Petty Officer Robert Lambert of Eagle Point received a Bronze Star for pulling his boat commander — Lt. Larry Thurlow — out of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. Thurlow had jumped onto another Swift boat to aid sailors wounded by a mine explosion but fell off when the out-of-control boat ran aground.

Thurlow, who has been prominent in the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group of veterans challenging the Democratic presidential candidate's record, has said there was no enemy fire during the incident. Lambert, however, supports the Navy account that the boats "came under small arms and automatic weapon fire from the river banks" when the mine detonated.

"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said. "Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."

CONTINUED...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002016962_swift27.html

[JohnKleeb]

12. Thurlow is a hero for what he did, its just a shame hes taken the wrong

side of this. Lambert seems to be a brave and heroice guy too.

[Rebellious Republican]

22. Hey there shipmate, make that two sailors that support Kerry!

:toast:

[Octafish]

46. Here's another, Rebellious Republican!

Kerry crewman slams claims of swift boat vets

Attacks make all 'who served with him a liar'

By Chris Andrews
Lansing State Journal

A former swift boat crew mate of John Kerry on Monday accused an anti-Kerry veterans group of lies and deception in attacking the Democratic presidential candidate's record in the Vietnam War.

Wade Sanders, who served alongside Kerry during some of his Vietnam War action, praised Kerry as an effective leader who earned the medals he received.

"Every one of John Kerry's superiors wrote him up as the best of all," Sanders said outside the Michigan Capitol. "These guys are not only calling John Kerry a liar, they're calling everyone who served with him a liar, and the United States Navy a liar."

A group called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has alleged that Kerry lied about the events for which he won his medals. They say he betrayed servicemen by leading Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testifying about atrocities inflicted by American personnel.

CONTINUED...

http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040831/NEWS01/408310333/1001/news

[Octafish]

47. A Swift Shift in Stories (CORRUPT EX-ADMIRAL + CORRUPT CINC = BIG $)

Gee. It seems CORRUPTION is a Bush family value.

A Swift Shift in Stories

By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, August 31, 2004; Page A19

This is a story about Swift boats and FastShip.

Four days ago, retired naval Rear Adm. William L. Schachte Jr. seconded accusations made by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth seeking to discredit Democratic presidential nominee John F. Kerry's record in Vietnam. But since then, Democrats have discovered that Schachte is also a long-standing supporter of President Bush and a lobbyist whose client FastShip Inc. recently won a $40 million grant from the federal government.

On Aug. 27, Schachte issued a statement saying that after he "avoided talking to media" for months, he was reluctantly stepping forward to challenge Kerry's award of one of his Purple Hearts on Dec. 2, 1968. "Kerry had himself in charge of the operation, and I was not mentioned at all," he said. "He also claimed that he was wounded by hostile fire. None of this is accurate. I know, because I was not only in the boat, but I was in command of the mission."

Kerry has said Schachte was not on the boat that night, adding another mystery to the disputed events of 36 years ago. But other events are not in dispute. According to a March 18 legal filing by Schachte's firm, Blank Rome, Schachte was one of the lobbyists working for FastShip on issues such as the effort to win funding for a new marine cargo terminal. On Feb. 2, Philadelphia-based FastShip announced that it would receive $40 million in federal funding for the project.

In addition, David Norcross, Schachte's colleague in the Washington office of Blank Rome, is chairman of this week's Republican convention in New York. Records also show that Schachte gave $1,000 to Bush's 2000 and 2004 campaigns.

CONTINUED...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A47542-2004Aug30?language=printer

[DeepModem Mom]

4. Well, this is a very moving defense of Kerry -- God bless her --

[Octafish]

16. Thanks, DeepModem Mom! Here's a column by a PA professor...

Prof. Heise understands who is responsible and what it means for our country...

Worst of all: Bush's pattern of lies

By Paul Heise

Sen. Bob Dole told an interviewer recently that John Kerry received two of his Purple Hearts on the same day. That is not true; the record shows the actions were in separate months. But Dole, an honest man, picked up the lie from Bush people who had read the record and concocted the lie.

The whole world is picking up these lies in the same way because honest people, the majority of us, do not want to think that people are lying to them.

We cannot build the future of this country on a lie. The religious people who are supporting Bush believe the issue of this campaign is morality, but there is no greater moral issue than the truth. The staunchest of Bush supporters and the most fundamental of preachers should tell the cadre of Bush people: Don't lie, no matter what the end.

The lies in the condemnation of John Kerry's war record are the worst kind of immorality because they corrupt others as they engender hatred and undermine America's soul. This is not politics; this is our spirituality, our relationship with God and goodness.

CONTINUED...

http://www.ldnews.com/Stories/0,1413,139~10142~2360521,00.html

[ryban]

6. NYT shows Alachua Co., Fla. GOP connection to Swift Boat Vets...

The New York Times got the permits for the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush rally in Gainesville last weekend and reported what they found in a story today.

Apparently the "truth" is the final casualty of the Vietnam War.

Here are the highlights from a story you will find at: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/27/politics/campaign/27swift.html


* One Republican connection to the group that had been dismissed surfaced again yesterday. Republicans in Alachua County, Fla., had said that a flier found in their local office listing them as co-sponsors of a rally with the Swift boat group was the work of an unauthorized volunteer, and that they knew nothing of it.

* But city permits obtained by The New York Times listed the Alachua County Republican Party Executive Committee as one of four sponsors for the rally, and one of the checks to pay for the permit was written by a member of the party's executive committee. Additional permits for the rally were taken out by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and two additional anti-Kerry veterans groups, all of which gave their address as the local Republican party headquarters and their
contact as a member of the party's executive committee.

* Travis Horn, the chairman of the county Republican Party, first said that the party had been invitees, not sponsors. Asked about the permits, he then said that there had been no "collusion." Dineen Wolfersheim, the name listed as the
contact, said that she is on the party's executive committee but had taken out the permits as a private citizen and that Lourdes Chu, another member of the executive committee, had likewise paid for the permits as a private citizen.

[Octafish]

17. Thanks, ryban! Truth went down in the Gulf of Tonkin...

... which LBJ used to justify his escalation of the war in Vietnam. Prof. John Newman was the guy who uncovered the National Security Action Memoranda that JFK ordered a few days before his death that stated the US would withdraw combat forces from Vietnam by the end of 1964. Within days of JFK's assassination, LBJ reverted the orders, stating the US would provided whatever level of support was needed.

http://www.conspire.com/archive/scott.htm

Regarding the Smear Boat Liars connection to the GOP. As you know, it goes back to Nixon wanting to "neutralize" the anti-war war hero John Kerry. Like today, they created "right-sounding" front groups to do their dirty work.

Swift Boat Veterans for Lies, Contempt and Dishonor

By DOUG THOMPSON
Aug 27, 2004, 07:14

Revenge is a dish best served cold.
--Old Mongolian Proverb

John Forbes Kerry pissed off a lot of veterans when he came home from Vietnam. His outspoken opposition to the war, tales of widespread atrocities and affiliation with radical antiwar groups didn’t sit well with the rank and file.

Yet many Vietnam vets agreed with Kerry’s stance on the war. Not all of them joined Vietnam Veterans Against the War or came to Washington to toss medals, ribbons or whatnot onto the steps of the capital but they still wondered why they risked their lives in that godforsaken place on the other side of the world.

Those who hated Kerry’s actions, however, did so with a vengeance. With the help of the Nixon White House, they spread unfounded claims that Kerry was in league with the leaders of North Vietnam, that VVAW took money from the communists and that Kerry and others in the group planned to assassinate members of Congress.

Nixon sent out his chief counsel and hatchet man, Charles Colson, to recruit a Vietnam veteran to counter Kerry and the VVAW. Colson found one.

“We found a vet named John O'Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O'Neill meet the President, and we did everything we could do to boost his group,” Colson told reporter Joe Klein in a January 5 interview published in The New Yorker magazine.

CONTINUED...

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_5125.shtml

BTW: A most hearty welcome to DU, ryban! I look forward to reading your posts!

[DemBones DemBones]

37. Those city permits were also obtained and shown here at DU

by a DUer in Gainesville, who had previously gone down to Bush* HQ there and photographed the SmearVet flier on the inside of the Bush* HQ bldg. I don't know if the NY Times found this info independently but I know DUers sent it to them.
DUers are pretty swift that way!

Welcome to DU, ryban! :hi:

[merci_me]

14. I'm sitting here sobbing at the memories

I was a congressional district co-ordinator for George McGovern in 1972. It was a very rethug area in Ohio. At the time, we had a number a very brave VietNam Veterans Against the War, come forward to speak up for McGovern. I will never forget their eloqence, some in words and others just by a haunted look in their eyes. They answered their country's call and when they were fortunate enough to come home, they didn't give up the fight, for those who had died and those were still to go.


My heart breaks when I read about the Doz family and when I read about John Kerry making a rubbing of his name, for his mother, the tears just flowed.


People need to READ, LISTEN and THINK!!!

[Octafish]

19. Three friends' brothers died in Vietnam.

None of the families were ever the same.

The Vietnam War was started by the War Party to keep power and make money. The war was wrong, but the fight was right. And too many American men and women made the ultimate sacrifice so we can be free.

Kerry's bravery in battle and at home is one of the reasons why Kerry would make such a great President. The guy is brave enough to sacrifice himself for the nation's security. Knowing that war is a waste of human life and national treasure, he did all he could to stop it, even going public against the war at a time he believed it would ruin any career in politics. As President, Kerry wouldn't start a war unless it was absolutely necessary. He knows every human life is an infinite treasure and irreplaceable.

[AnnitaR]

15. Daughter Tracy Droz'z movie about her dad.

"Be Good, Smile Pretty" (2003) It's about her journey to find out about the father she never knew.

www.begoodsmilepretty.com

[Octafish]

20. Thanks, AnnitaR!

Theirs is a most compelling story. Lt. Droz met his young daughter for a short time. His daughter got to know her dad through other's recollections. Their memories paint the portrait of a true Hero.

[Democat]

18. Bush is attacking this woman's dead husband by questioning Kerry's medals

By attacking war veterans, Bush is questioning the bravery of every U.S. soldier who has died in war for his country.

[Octafish]

21. Bush knows no decency or shame. He has no conscience.

Some diagnose his as a "psychopathic personality." Whatever, Bush is a perfect fascist.

How Bush Hit the 'Trifecta' on 9/11--and the Public Lost Big-Time

It is sickening to contemplate an administration intentionally looking the other way while terrorists scheme so that whatever havoc they wreak can provide cover for the president to raid Social Security.

by Brad Carlton

Bush, in the weeks before September 11, pledged to honor the sanctity of the Social Security lockbox except in the event of recession, war, or a national emergency. But after "everything changed" on 9/11, he reportedly gloated to his budget director, Mitch Daniels, "Lucky me--I hit the trifecta!" At the time, this comment (a variation of which is being recycled for laughs at current GOP fundraisers) seemed merely offensive. But in light of revelations that Bush's August 6 briefing memo was titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike U.S.," Bush's "luck" and weird prescience are worth more than passing scrutiny.

Whenever someone is suspected of a crime, investigators look for a motive in addition to actual proof of guilt to determine, a posteriori, whether there was malice aforethought. In cases of criminal negligence, motive must also be deduced, a priori, to answer the question: were preventive failures due to craftiness or mere cluelessness?

The serial apologists of the Bush Is Not Stupid crowd are rather incongruously opting for the latter, this in the wake of the scandal about pre-9/11 failures to issue precisely the kinds of public warnings and security directives that accompanied the also "non-specific" Y2K threats. For now, it is difficult to say who knew what when because the administration is not exactly being forthcoming, preferring instead to use the scandal as an excuse to broaden the FBI's snoop powers. However: there was a potential motive for the administration to sit on perceived terrorist threats.

Think back to the days before 9/11. The topic on everyone's lips (Condit aside) was: what will happen when budget realities force Bush to raid Social Security? He had explicitly promised during his campaign to establish a contingency fund for severe emergencies that would keep Social Security untouched. But the economy was tanking and the costs of the tax cut made the raid inevitable. Even Daniels acknowledged that the government would be forced to tap Social Security to the tune of $14 billion to fund pending legislation. Strangely, Bush kept insisting, "We can work together to avoid dipping into Social Security." But, beginning August 24, he gave himself an escape clause: "I've said that the only reason we should use Social Security funds is in case of an economic recession or war." (Three days earlier he had said that there should be "special consideration" in the budget for these contingencies. Otherwise, this was completely new rhetoric.)

CONTINUED...

http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/trifecta_jun02.shtml

EDIT: html

[Rebellious Republican]

23. Exactly, I agree, and there are a lot of us that see it that way.

Here is an email I sent off to the DA in Clackamas County after reading a post about Alfred French, the assistant DA.

Dear Sir or Madam,
I am a Decorated Navy Veteran, 1978-1988 active duty. It occurs to me it has become popular sport to smear veterans that have distinguished themselves in times of valor.Who have also chosen to continue to serve our country as elected representatives of 'We the People". These tactics serve no one honorably, they only call into question the validity of the military awards system. It questions any vet who has ever earned an award, it makes people skeptical and places doubt in their minds. So when someone like me displays them, they have a subconscious reaction to ask me if they mean anything!

This tactic was used against the Honorable John McCain, a hero's hero, when he ran in the 2000 primaries. Stories surfaced about his loyalty while in Hanoi as a POW, that was an all time low in politics. Did anyone bother to talk about his history on board the USS Forestal, how he survived the biggest disaster on aboard an aircraft carrier in Naval History. He was then given the option to go home, but he chose to stay and serve. It was after that when he "intercepted a surface to air missile with his plane" and after surviving that was captured. As far as his time in Hanoi, very few people actually know what it is like in a Vietnamese POW camp and try to survive. No matter what happened in Hanoi, one thing is for sure, at least he chose to be there!

Now we see the trashing of John Kerry's honorable service in Vietnam, again, one thing is for sure, he was in Vietnam, and there by choice!

You can add Senator Max Cleland to that smear list, guess what, at least he was there. He was not flying the friendly sky's of Texas or hiding behind some deferment, if he had been, then he would probably still have all of his limbs!

I see a reoccurring theme in all of this, maybe the US Congress needs to review their awards criteria, certainly decorations must be handed out like candy. I will keep that in mind when I look at my Naval Expeditionary Forces medal (Beirut "83") or my National Defense medal, Sea Service deployment ribbon, Naval Enlisted Aircrewman Wings or any of the other four worthless pieces junk that they gave me.

Alfred French should be ashamed for allowing himself to be used in this disgusting tactic. This no way for a public official to act and should be asked to tender his resignation. Not simply because he opined that Kerry does not deserve these awards, but mainly because he lied about his knowledge. He either lied to the Newspaper while making a public statement or he lied in the LEGAL affidavit that he signed. This calls into question his reliability and moral character when making life altering decisions in his position as Asst. DA.

I am one Vet who stands behind all Vets that have received military awards, regardless of political party affiliations, that includes George Herbert Walker Bush for honorable service in WWII. This type of slander needs to stop, regardless of who is being attacked, if it takes people losing their jobs to get someone's attention, then so be it.

[DemBones DemBones]

38. Good job, Rebellious Republican! I wonder if you'll

get an answer?

For the GOP to allow Bush*, who weaseled his way into the TANG and didn't serve his entire time, to attack decorated veterans (McCain, Cleland, Kerry) makes the entire party look bad. I remember when the Republican Party was respectable.

[skip fox]

24. Swift Boat resource file with hot links at DU:

A solid overview of the Swift Boat Story including

I. Introduction and History of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (hereafter SBVT)

II. Recent Accounts of Other Swift Boat Vets and Others
--a. Vets Who Were Actually with Kerry Contradicting the SBVT
--b. People with Special Information Contradicting SBVT
--c. New Vets Contradicting Kerry

III. New Charges against Kerry About his Service

IV. Changes or Qualifications in Stories of Individual SBVT

V. Points of Collusion Between Republicans and the SBVT

Broken into separate posts (for ease of jumping) and all with easy-to-use hot links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x70318

Please inform me of new stories and links as they occur and I'll up-date this on Monday or Tuesday. (Sooner if some SBVT stories break over the weekend.

[Octafish]

29. Thanks, skip! I'll keep it kicked!

Putting information into a form that can be used makes it more powerful. And when it comes to the BFEE, the fuel already is nitro. Making it easy to use is like adding a supercharger. Thanks a million, DU Friend!

[Aidoneus]

27. All of this truly pathetic arguing..

:eyes:

There is the propaganda value of "heroism" in the criminal war that Kerry himself referred to in the harshest of terms (all of them true)? The Swift Boat swine notwithstanding, this is one of the more surreal and hypocritical issues of the two major campaigns. Auken's recent piece on the matter is excellent and well worth reading, though would be quickly locked up if posted as a thread here.

[Octafish]

30. We must be thinking of two different people.

Kerry was willing to give his life for his country. That makes him OK in my book. He's very different than the occupant. Bush was willing to give somebody else's life for his country.

BTW: When Kerry returned from the war, his eyes were opened. He understood the War Party was making war, like the current occupant, to benefit the world's elite. Kerry then did all he could to stop it.

[struggle4progress]

35. Do you mean this piece?

Kerry’s dilemma: defending medals from a criminal war
By Bill Van Auken, SEP presidential candidate
24 August 2004
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/aug2004/kerr-a24.shtml

Auken repeats the rightwing soundbite "Kerry served for a little more than four months in Vietnam," a misleading tidbit designed to minimize Kerry's active service by emphasizing only the Swift Boat period. In fact, Kerry actively served for several years. ( http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html ) This raises some question about Auken's attention to detail.

Auken's piece further suffers from an ideological inflexibility, which prevents him from developing any analysis with real political utility. Many of us will agree with Auken that the Vietnam war had a criminal aspect, being justified by lies and involving a certain number of American atrocities, but it is important to remember that ordinary citizens, who were drafted or volunteered for duty, often served with completely honorable intentions, motivated by patriotic idealism. Although many of these veterans later became critical of the war, not all did; as a result, rather dramatic fault lines remain in the public consciousness. A penetrating scientific examination of the resulting psychological landscape and a power analysis of the groups that inhabit that landscape would, of course, have great interest; so, similarly, would a careful investigation into the mass production of modern American political consciousness which grants the President an imperial ability to wage war. Auken, instead, provides only rhetoric.

[struggle4progress]

28. kick

:kick:

[Octafish]

31. Thanks, struggle4progress! Did you hear people are waking up?

The Truth will out these lying bed-wetters.

Bush Campaign Linked to Swift Boat Ads, Poll Finds

Aug. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Forty-six percent of U.S. adults said they think President George W. Bush's campaign is behind unsubstantiated television ads questioning Democratic challenger John Kerry's Vietnam War record, the National Annenberg Election Survey said.

Thirty-seven percent of the 1,244 adults polled from Aug. 23 to 26 said they believe ads by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were made independently, the poll found. The survey had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. The Swift boat group received its initial funding from friends and financial backers of the Bush campaign.

The poll showed that the number of people who said Kerry hadn't earned his medals fell after media reports showed discrepancies in the advertisements run by Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, falling to 24 percent in the latest poll from a high of 30 percent on Aug. 19.

SNIP...

``When news reports uncritically relay ad content to an audience, the credibility of the ad as well as its likely impact rise,'' said Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the Philadelphia- based University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg survey. ``But when credible news organizations question an ad over a number of days, the credibility of the ad and its likely impact fall.''

CONTINUED...

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aEsO.NWFjSuQ&refer=us

There's room for improvement. That number probably has moved north from 44 percent. And that's where we come in! Go DU!

[Claire Beth]

33. Of course he deserved his medals....

we have to approach the rebuttal like "where are Dubya's medals?" Attack Bush about HIS records and medals.

[Octafish]

43. Correct you are, Claire_beth! Here's some real reportage...

It's odd Americans have to read a Canadian paper to see the real picture.

Bush, not Kerry, should face scrutiny

LINDA MCQUAIG

It's downright strange that the U.S. presidential election campaign — easily the most important in decades — has come to focus on what happened in a faraway boat during the course of a few minutes more than 30 years ago.

That such a crucial election isn't more focused on the many pressing current issues is remarkable enough.

But if the election is to hinge on what happened decades ago during the Vietnam War, it's truly astonishing that the candidate in the hot seat is the one who actually went to Vietnam and was injured in the line of duty, rather than the one who used family connections to do his service at home and then didn't bother to show up for duty.

It's not surprising that Republicans have tried to smear Democratic candidate John Kerry's impressive war record.

It's clear that no smear is beneath them. They proved that in 2002, when they attacked Senator Max Cleland for lacking patriotism — when all he really lacked were the three limbs he lost in Vietnam.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1093645212371&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

[Bongo Prophet]

34. Tears well up again

Every time I hear of the very personal pain brought up again by these Smearboat minions of Rove.
They are hurting people while in a deep denial of the dark grey realities of war and geopolitics.
People of a certain mindset won't hear what they don't want to hear, as in this quote by Judith--

"But she said both Kerry's activism and her own have been misunderstood. "John Kerry and I were clear that we were not condemning the people who were fighting the war," she said. "Those who think so weren't hearing what we were saying.""

and this one by Tracy Droz Tragos, who turned her pain into Art--

"But Tragos said that the attacks against Kerry have reopened wounds that time, and her film, had begun to heal. "Around this election, I find it really sad and really hard to deal with how polarized things are again," she said. "It dishonors everyone's memory.""

Indeed. Thanks for posting Octafish.
Truth is often painful, but Truth is All.
:cry: :kick:

[Octafish]

42. You're welcome, Calico_Janitor! Here's the True Story.

That war's been over for 30 years and it still hurts. For me, as for you and all who know what Vietnam meant: It was a war entered by America for profits and power, not for justice and right. That makes the loss of every single life there such an infinite tragedy. Kerry fought to bring it to an end, the work of a real hero.

Here's an excellent article describing the current situation from a real journalist:

Media failed Swift boat mission

By C.B. Hanif
Palm Beach Post Ombudsman
Sunday, August 29, 2004

After weeks of covering the controversy, "the media" finally got around to covering the facts.

It took news organizations that long to advance from he-said, she-said reporting to Wednesday's unqualified dismissal by The New York Times of allegations against Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee, by a group of President Bush's supporters calling themselves the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Presidential adviser Karl Rove must have been giddy by then. Tina Brown, in a column for The Washington Post, said it as well as any commentator:

Mr. Rove, President Bush's chief political strategist, "has brilliantly judged how much and how long the media can be relied on to run with a story until it plays itself out. It doesn't matter if the revisionist Swifties are discredited as long as a touch of virus enters the voter bloodstream to flow through the veins and arteries of blogs and cable and talk radio and Op-Ed columns and contradicting ads. The war record becomes 'the disputed war record.' "

As newspapers struggled over how to cover this story, even Palm Beach Post editors, it seems, were confused. A case in point, said Bernard Loomis of Palm Beach Gardens, was last Sunday's headline over a Washington Post article, "Swift Boat stories flawed," and the secondary heading, "John Kerry and his detractors offer incomplete accounts."

CONTINUED...

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/opinion/epaper/2004/08/29/m2e_lp_0829.html

[lebkuchen]

36. Gen. Bell passed out a bunch of Purple Hearts at Wuerzburg Army Hospital

3 weeks ago, and that hospital administers to the LESS severely injured which Landstuhl Hospital can't accomodate because it's too full of very seriously injured patients!

Any objections to these Purple Hearts, America??

[DemBones DemBones]

39. The GOP will object if any of them went to Democrats!

Some segments of the GOP, at least.

[bamacrat]

40. good woman

she better be careful though, the repuks may "help" her have a trajic "freak" accident if she continues to say good things of kerry.

[Octafish]

44. Odd how Democrats are the ones to suffer "accidents."

We miss Paul Wellstone more and more every day. Same for John F. Kennedy, Jr. Same for Robert F. Kennedy. Same for Martin Luther King, Jr. Same for Frank Church. Same for Paul Tsongas. Same for President John F. Kennedy. Odd how the Conservatives always have a "narrow escape" from almost-danger. To be honest, I don't think it's an accident.

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, bamacrat! There are a lot of good people where you hail from. Thanks for helping spread the word.

[UTUSN]

41. Kick for Page 1 n/t

[Octafish]

45. Thanks, UTUSN! Didya hear Bush knows Kerry is a better man?

I know you keep up with the news, but for the sake of this thread, this is important -- for the record.

Bush says Kerry was 'more heroic'

US President George W Bush has said his rival in the presidential race, John Kerry, was the "more heroic" for having put himself "in harm's way" in Vietnam.

President Bush passed his military service as a fighter pilot in Texas.

Asked by US TV network NBC if he felt Mr Kerry and he "served on the same level of heroism", Mr Bush replied, "No, I don't."

SNIP...

A lawyer for the president's re-election team, Benjamin Ginsberg, resigned on Wednesday after admitting he advised the group of Vietnam veterans responsible for the ads.

CONTINUED...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3609312.stm



SINK the BFEE!