Iraqi police make gory find

[cal04]

Iraqi police said on Friday they found "many" bodies of dead civilians and police, including some who were executed and mutilated, at a religious court set up by rebel cleric Moqtada Sadr in Najaf.

"We entered the building which was being used as Moqtada Sadr's court and we discovered in the basement a large number of bodies of police and ordinary civilians," said the deputy head of the Najaf police, General Amer Hamza al-Daami.

"Some were executed, others were mutilated and others were burned."
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1579701,00.html

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. eww

that sounds icky

[Jacobin]

2. Gee, sounds like Abu Graihb

Don't they know only Americans can do that?

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Memo to *: God's Justice is always better than Saddam's Justice.

[Radius]

4. Talibanish

Like the woman who got an ak round through her head. I'm sure you've seen the video at the soccer game, guilty of wearing makeup or walking alone, round enters head exits hijab covered face kicks up dirt. Nice public spectacle. Radical islam and human rights mix like oil and water.

religous court=millitary intelligence, etc..

[drdtroit]

24. religous court=millitary intelligence, etc..

You are referring to GWB, yes?

[Radius]

32. Politics and Religion

Should not mix. The law should be blind and fair. military intelligence, mercy killing, contradictory phrases. Sharia law is a tad harsh.

[cindyw]

5. You know this war should of never happened and this is why.

We have been in a massive fight with the medi(sp?) army and the answer to peace is to abandon the city and Al Sadr who is obviously sick goes free. Seriously, look up the "Peace agreement". It is no different than abandoning Saigon. Is this how we bring Democracy. Fight rebels in a city until they look tough and then abandon the city.

[jayfish]

6. In Other News... Al Sadr's Militia Removes Babies Form Incubators.

More later. :eyes:

Jay

[Cocoa]

7. I heard Sadr eats kittens

:scared:

[TeeYiYi]

21. Did you see the experiments he does on dogs? ...n/t

TYY

[PsychoDad]

12. Exactally....

Those were my thoughts.

[jayfish]

14. We Need A New Bad Guy Over There ASAP.

The nebulous Al-Zarqawi just doesn't strike up enough fear and hatred.

Jay

[Vladimir]

15. It does strike me like a very strange story

3 paragraphs, 1 quote. It will be interesting to see how this develops... methinks the collaborators are getting desperate.

[Catfight]

17. EXACTLY, he must be horrible and this must be true because bush

says so. Al Sadr has a tattoo of a pentagram.

[IndianaGreen]

47. It does sound like this story has its genesis in the baby incubator story

and it makes me think that the Allawi regime is probably behind this planted story for some sinister purpose.

[Ms. Clio]

55. I thought it was from plastic people shredders?

[Charles19]

8. Do you really think

with all that fighting going on they took time out of the day to set up a court and have court hearings?

C'mon people.

This could be casualties inflicted by collateral damage from either side.

[radwriter0555]

9. Allawi getting rid of dissidents.

He makes bush & saddam look nice.

[lottie244]

10. Didn't want them to have their own form of government?

This is part of it.

[Radius]

11. In a basement?

Nope these were POW's. Don't hold al sadyr to a higher level than you hold our own troops.

I would not be surprised if his own people eliminate him as a threat to their control. Arabs have their own ways of dealing with those problems.

You dont get shot at point blank range in the back of the head in combat.

[Vladimir]

13. Arabs have their own ways, do they?

beautiful, really beautiful. Care to tell us more about those Arab ways?

[Radius]

37. Shiria and Tribalisim

I can send you links if you like. It is not a racist statement.
Al-sadyr is could be a power threat to sistani and he might just choose to kill him.

Saudi Arabia does not deal with dissidents like we do. You can write all the critical comments here you like with out the threat of imprisonment and flogging. We do not chop off hands of robbers.

Not a critisim just an observation.

[drdtroit]

25. When have you been in combat? n/t

[Radius]

38. Relevant how? Didn't claim i was.

However if someone puts a gun right next to your head at point blank range and pulls the trigger it leaves a different kind of mess than if you get hit from range.

Gas from the charge blows through and gun powder stipling is present.

I can post links that show the difference between an close range gunshot and a hit from distance. It is close to lunch so you might want to take my word for it.

[The White Tree]

41. Just an observation

I see nowhere in this article were it says anyone was shot in the head at point blank range.

Excerpt:
Iraqi police said on Friday they found "many" bodies of dead civilians and police, including some who were executed and mutilated, at a religious court set up by rebel cleric Moqtada Sadr in Najaf.

I am not saying it didn't happen but this comes from the Iraqi police and it says that there were bodies of police found. That in and of itself puts the objectivity of the statement in question.

I'd think that if he thought he had the right carry out Muslim law he'd be publicizing it somewhere, if he felt it would turn people against him he'd have tried to cover it up.

It seems like he'd have had time to do one or the other.

Without more details I am a little skeptical.

[Radius]

53. Execution

There are lots of ways to execute people. Unless you get off on hacking someones head off to make a political point on tape the easiest and most efficent way to execute someone in a warzone is to shoot them in the back of the head while they are on ther knees.

It does not directly state that but execution is the term used. I would like to see it from another source as well.

[DrWeird]

46. Or perhaps it was a temporary morgue.

Those innocent civilians were most likely shot by US troops.

[thebigidea]

56. Arabs have their own ways?

Yeah, those inscrutable Arabs. Imagine, using force to get their way. Us sneeringly superior Westerners would never stoop to something so low!

[Ms. Clio]

58. Didn't you know?

Americans are made of different, finer stuff than the rest of humanity. All our wars are just, all our torture is justified, all our murders are legal.

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Haven't US troops been bombarding Najaf

for over 3 weeks. Where did all the dead come from? They are probably the casualties from this offensive. You think Sadr and the Iraqis could go to the graveyard to bury their dead, while the graveyard was doubling as a battlefield?

This reports smells like a crook o' shlt.

[leftchick]

18. Right before the "truce"...

The US dropped one last 2000 lb bomb on Najaf. I saw footage of the city this morning on BBCAmerica. The US has bombed the hell out of it.

:(

[coalition_unwilling]

29. "We had to destroy the city in order to save it"

This is so reminiscent of Vietnam, where 'victory' (and a consequent exit strategy) is never defined, leading to tactical victories and strategic disaster(s).

I doubt there are many in our current regime who would understand or even recognize the difference between tactic (dropping a 2000-lb. bomb on a civilian area) and strategy (a more just, peaceful and, hence, stable world). Exactly what strategic aim, other than terrorizing a population, is served by dropping a 2,000-lb. bomb on a civilian area?

[Aidoneus]

19. the Marines & Army men themselves..

are describing their assault as comperable to the Nazis at Stalingrad, Serbs at Sarejevo, Zionists at Beirut.. there no shortage of bodies of the martyred in every part of the city.

[cal04]

20. sounds more like, we'll do anything to do get out of the

agreement made

"Muqtada al-Sadr is free to go anywhere he likes. ... He is as free as any Iraqi citizen," said Kasim Daoud, Iraq's minister of state for military affairs.

from BBC
A correspondent for Associated Press said he saw about 10 charred and bloated bodies in the court building, including one of an elderly woman. Police said the bodies belonged to police and civilians, but a court official said they were militants killed in recent fighting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3603730.stm

[Bragi]

22. Could be true

It's hard to believe anything coming out of Bush's lying Iraq spin machine, but it could well be that this Taliban-style cleric, who could be running Iraq in the not too distant future, is a brutal murderer.

However, what doesn't fit in this story is the idea of bodies being left about.

Al-Sadr is a religious zealot, and to my knowledge, his religion prescribes in detail how bodies are to be handled. Leaving corpses around doesn't fit the requirement, or his profile. It would also be an unnecessary and stupid risk, and he doesn't seem to be the type who takes unnecssary stupid risks.

I suspect we'll soon know whether there is any truth to this. Either 1) some real evidence will emerge, or 2) the story will just go dark in major media, and live on forever as a legendary "truth" for foaming right-wing call-in shows and pundits.

My prediction would be that #2 will happen.

- B

[jayfish]

23. Taliban-Style Cleric?

And what do you base this characterization on? Shia are the majority in Iraq so if this is true, we better act quickly or we'll have another Afghanistan on our hands. :eyes:

Jay

[Bragi]

33. It appears to me Sadr is Taliban-like

It's important to remember that just because someone is standing up against the US occupation doesn't mean they are tolerant, pluralistic democrats.

From what I've read, al-Sadr fits the profile of a Taliban-style fundamentalist. For example, his Mahdi army is regularly reported as harrassing and arresting people for selling liquor, immodest dress, and other offenses against Islamic law.

I suspect al-Sadr's religious fundamentalism explains why he is a) controversial for many people in Iraq, and b) popular among many people in Iraq.

Depending on what happens to al-Sastani health-wise and/or politically in the next while, it wouldn't surprise me at all if al-Sadr, or someone like him, is ruling Iraq sometime in the not-very-distant future.

If this happens, the outcome of Bush's war will be what a lot of people predicted before the invasion: the thuggish secular regime of Saddam will be replaced by a thuggish regime of religious fundamentalists.

Mission accomplished indeed.

- B

[Radius]

40. Exactly, Your enemy's enemy is not always your friend(NT)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Pictures? Video? Documentation? Did they also find WMDs?....

Or were the bodies actually those of the followers of Sadr?

[thecrow]

27. Al Sadr lied about his Vietnam Record

'nuff said.
Are there any witnesses to this slaughter?
I heard that his army could not get the wounded to hospitals because we were shooting at ambulances.
Couldn't this just be a spin on them storing bodies killed in the fight?

[Barrett808]

28. Not implausible, but let's withhold judgment

The Allawi "administration" has lied outrageously on a couple of occasions in the last 3 weeks ("police have secured the shrine"). This could be simple propaganda.

[LisaL]

30. They could have been very well

Storing their dead (killed by US) in the basement.

[Barrett808]

34. In fact, we have a report of exactly that

Thousands of Shiites end Najaf siege
Jean-Marc Mojon
Posted Thu, 26 Aug 2004
http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/343856.htm

The gates of Najaf's Imam Ali shrine were forced open Thursday by a sea of weeping and chanting Shiite Muslims, ending a siege of the shrine which had lasted for days and weeks of fighting with US forces.

...

The besieged shrine had become increasingly insalubrious in recent days. Food shortages were looming and the dead had to be hastily buried in cellars.

[Bragi]

36. Actually...

That's quite plausible as well.

- B

[Barrett808]

52. The dead policemen could be police who defected to Sadr, still in uniform

[MetaTrope]

31. Considering the Iraqi police fired on Sistani's peaceful demonstrations

at least twice, killing dozens, we're supposed to trust their word on this?

[gatlingforme]

35. I don't believe Bush$Co. and I do not believe the Iraq police for

their word.

[Rose Siding]

39. So this happened *after* the press was ix-nayed.....

[GliderGuider]

42. Religious court administrator denies the charges

"Cover your noses. This is where the Mehdi Army slit the throats of people and then left them there to rot," one policeman said. But the Islamic court's chief administrator, Hashim Abu Reef, denied the police accusations.

"We denounce this charge. This government is very capable of trying to frame us. Those corpses are our fighters which we could not wash or move because the Iraqi government and Americans cut off the electricity and water," he said.

"There is also one woman who was passing by the shrine and killed by a sniper. We can identify each and every body."

From a Reuters Story

[The_Casual_Observer]

43. Interesting that the Iraqi "police" would immediately accuse

Sadr of genocide, when in fact they were to blame. I would have expected no less from them I guess.

[Vladimir]

44. They are in full retreat now

these are the actions of desperate men. The game is very nearly up for Allawi...

[Bragi]

45. Done

I think this pretty well closes this one off.

Though the story had a shelf-life of mere hours before debunking, I'm sure it will live on forever as a faux atrocity among right-wing foamers, minus the clarification of how this gruesome scene actually came about, of course.

So it's "mission accomplished" for the Bush spin machine in the Green Zone, who can now start their weekend on a high note, enjoy a nice ginn fizz, and play a hand or two of bridge.

And so it goes.

- B

[daleo]

49. Agreed, this will rattle around the right wing echo chamber

The lie will have served its limited purpose, however.

[Ms. Clio]

54. And despite the determined efforts of some here to propagate it

and connect it to "Arab ways" and "Shiria (sic)" and the Taliban.

[Vladimir]

59. Damn those swarthy Arabs and their greasy ways!

</sarcasm>

[Norquist Nemesis]

48. I don't believe it.

Sistani would have something to say about it if true. He'd have al Sadr's head on a platter, politically speaking.

Sadly, the news will pick up on this and unless Sistani speaks out to the truth of the matter--whatever that is--it's an attempt to smear al Sadr equal to Hussein/mass murderer/terrorists through propoganda.

[maxsolomon]

50. the "iraqi george washington" would never condone this

al sadr loves all his children. he is not the mahdi come to unite islam & drive the infidels out, so stop saying that. his army just liked the SOUND of that name.

[Ms. Clio]

57. Did you finish reading the thread? The story is bullshit

And who cares if he does want to drive all the infidels out--they shouldn't be in his country.

Come to think of it, that does sound vaguely George Washington-like.

[Career Prole]

51. The way I recall, a reporter who was in the mosque during the siege

said the militants were keeping their dead there, as is mentioned in this account...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=3&u=/ap/20040827/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_rebel_court

"Police said the bodies belonged to the victims of the court. But a court official, who identified himself only as Hashim, said the corpses belonged to militants killed in the recent fighting in the city."