GOP connected to SwiftVets (AP)

[mantis]

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- A volunteer for John Kerry said Friday he picked up a flier in a Bush-Cheney campaign office in Gainesville, Fla., promoting Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group the Bush campaign has insisted for weeks it has no connection to.

-snip-

At Bush-Cheney campaign headquarters outside Washington, spokesman Steve Schmidt said: "The Bush-Cheney campaign has nothing to do with that piece of paper. ... I don't know how it showed up at the campaign headquarters."



http://www.ptd.net/webnews/wed/cl/Abush-swift-boats.RbIl_EaK.html

[tlcandie]

1. Great news for it to hit the AP!!!!

So, no clue, eh?

[bluestateguy]

2. Offer them a deal

The FEC complaint will be dropped if the ads are pulled and they agree to not collaborate with Bush/Cheney or the RNC.

[Myrina]

3. Not good enough ...

You know the BFEE will say anything and then stab you in the back the second you're not looking ....

I think the only appropriate 'punishment' for this violation is, oh ... one of Bush or Cheney's limbs. And if they do it again ...
another limb. Etc.

[Walt Starr]

6. Nah, you gotta hit 'em harder

Pull the 75 million. Let them run with no cash.

[DBoon]

9. Like the black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

eom

[Myrina]

11. Nice imagery !

One can't bankrupt someone with an endless supply of money.

We can't de-fund the BFEE. They have cronies feeding them money and media from all corners of the globe (most of it illegal, of course) and they have shown their disregard for playing by anyone's rules but their own.

Therefore, the ante needs to be upped, IMO.
Hit 'em where it would really register.

[ant]

4. did you see the flyer?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/20/18115/6359

My concern would be that there are local Dem offices out there also promoting 527s like MoveOn or something. I don't know if there are, mind you, but in all honesty it seems unbelievable to me that people could expect these sorts of efforts to not have any overlap at all. I can imagine there are local volunteers and what not out there who simply aren't aware of the rules. Mistakes are bound to happen. (Not that the Swift Boat vets thing is a mistake, just that in general I can imagine mistakes happening, so the Dems need to be careful on this one. I bet there are Republicans out there rummaging through the garbage of local Dem offices as we speak.)

[Walt Starr]

7. The law is clear, there can be NO overlap

and I would expect the same sort of application of the law if our side was doing the same!

[alarcojon]

8. I second that

and I share ant's concerns. All Democratic headquarters need to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen.

[Kagemusha]

10. Was moveon.org in BIG BOLD LETTERS?

I mean you've gotta admit this flyer is not subtle at all...

[ant]

14. oh, of course not

Like I said, I don't doubt that Bush could put a stop to the Swift Boat crap if he really wanted to. I also don't doubt that he knew this was coming and, even if just by his silence, approved it.

I have two points here, I guess. One is that, because all it takes is silence, or even just a nod of the head behind closed doors, to effectively approve this sort of stuff, the law is basically meaningless. You simply can't prove that the national campaign broke the law here; if anything the local grunts will take the fall. The problem is that, as far as I can tell, the activities the law restricts here are not activities that can ever really be traced. To some extent it seems the spirit of the law can be broken by mere inactivity. How do you prove involvement based on a lack of action? No one at the national level is going to be dumb enough to write a memo or leave any sort of paper trail on this stuff.

My second point is that I do think people overestimate the level of coordination between national and local offices. I would grant that Republicans tend to be better organized than Democrats, but based on my own experiences volunteering for local party offices, most of the time the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I can totally imagine that people would break the law in this case out of pure ignorance rather than deliberate malice. To be clear, I am not saying that that's the case here - though you do have to wonder how stupid these people are to violate the law so openly - just that Democrats better be careful that ignorance doesn't cause a similar sort of violation in their local offices.

I think it's great that they found this flyer and I'm really enjoying the blowback on this Swift Boat Vets crap, but I'm just warning you that I can imagine a similar sort of violation occuring at a Dem office, even if just by accident. And if such a violation has occurred, you better believe the Republicans are going to find it.

[TahitiNut]

13. The flyer was FAR MORE than mere "promotion"

The flyer clearly shows collaboration and coordination between three different legal entities: the Alachua Republican Party, the Alachua Bush/Cheney Campaign committee, and Swift Boat Vets For Truth(sic). They have cooperated to have the "Pro U.S.A. Political Rally" for two days in downtown Gainesville, for eight hours each day! That required planning, permits, scheduling, and financing. There's no question whatsoever in my mind (IANAL) that they've blatantly broken the law and the GOP is lying about it.

[ant]

16. I completely agree

But after writing my previous post I need to point something out.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bush himself knew these attacks were coming and approved of them. There is also no doubt in my mind that Bush has a team of lawyers making sure no one can ever prove that. These people are not stupid.

The Alachua Republican Party and the Alachua Bush/Cheney Campaign committee, on the other hand, are very clearly guilty of coordinating with a 527, which is illegal. Like you said, they've blatantly broken the law. However, I see three possible explanations here:

1. They are so stupid they didn't think to hide the coordination, and in fact they even printed up flyers advertising their violation of the law.

2. They knew what they were doing but are so arrogant they didn't think anyone would actually notice or care or be able to do anything about the fact that they're violating the law.

3. They were completely unaware that their activities are illegal.

To be honest each of these three is equally possibile in my mind, though I tend to lean towards #1, but I'm biased because I grew up in FL. I don't know how large/rich/powerful the Alachua Republicans are - they may be big political power players or they may be a bunch of rag tag locals trying to throw an event - and that's relevant to what might've happened here. If we're talking about a bunch of podunks, well, I can totally imagine that they just didn't know any better. They really could just be a bunch of idiots that have just caused Bush a major headache. (They do seem to have a pretty nice website, though, which makes me think they may NOT be a bunch of rag tag idiots. Perhaps the answer lies in option #2...ah, good ol' hubris.)

In any case, again, while I am not in any way doubting that Bush himself was aware of and approved of these attacks on Kerry, whatever's happening at the local level is not automatically tied up with the national scheming. It would be great if they can prove it is - hell, it would be great if the public just thinks it is - but the truth of what really happened here doesn't seem that obvious to me yet.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

5. Wow, and from the AP!

[TahitiNut]

12. Here's a photo DoYouEverWonder took of their offices tonight.

It shows the flyer still tacked to their bulletin board. The GOP and Bush/Cheney protestations and denials are bald-faced lies.

See this thread ... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=765732&mesg_id=766089&page=

[Lex]

15. Yes, DoYouEverWonder is my hero!

I wonder if the Kerry campaign has been forwarded the photos that DoYouEverWonder took?

Chances are real good that they want them, eh?

[Philostopher]

17. Another DUer got the story covered

by the Gainesville local TV news at eleven, on the weight of those photos DYEW took, according to this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x644914

Whatever it's worth, I think we should take it as a positive sign that anybody in the news profession is willing to cover it as a legitimate story. That in itself is a change for the better, isn't it?