Fla appeals court strikes down school-voucher law (church-state)

[Nambe]

The Associated (with bush) Press

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — A Florida law that lets students at failing public schools attend private schools at taxpayers' expense is unconstitutional, a state appeals court ruled today. ..

Under the 1999 law, the centerpiece of Gov. Jeb Bush's education policies, students attending public schools that earn failing grades two years out of four are eligible for vouchers to private schools. ..

Voucher opponents, including the state's teacher union, the Florida PTA, the Florida League of Women Voters and the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, challenged the law in court the day after Bush signed it in 1999.

Ron Meyer, a lawyer for the opponents, called today's ruling huge.

"It's the whole thing out the window," Meyer said, adding the decision was comprehensive and would make it easy for the state Supreme Court to reach a similar finding.

[bemildred]

1. Good, Florida has been devastated enough already. nt

[Brotherjohn]

2. As a Floridian, all I have to say is...

WOOHOOO!!!!

[progressivebydesign]

23. I'm woohooing for you on this side of the country!!! N/T

[rkc3]

3. I keep forgetting - wasn't this one of Bush's* campaign pledges?

He hasn't mentioned one word of his plan for the 2004 election (while saying Kerry has no platform either), but I thought he ran on implementing school vouchers in 2000.

[Catfight]

4. Kerry should come up with "Teachers Vouchers," teachers who

decide to teach in inner city public schools with low test scores get extra funding, that way, ALL kids get a chance, not just kids who go to PRIVATE RELIGIOUS schools. The fix is not to send kids elsewhere and leave the schools broken, but to fix the schools so the kids can stay and learn. Only a DUMBass pResident would come up with Private vouchers for rich schools that already have enough money pumped through from the rich parents who send them there.

[2Design]

11. now there is a good idea...instead of being paid less they get

paid more to teach in the 'tough' areas. I like that. Send that into Kerry.

[sandnsea]

20. Think he has

I know teachers who teach in inner city and other underserved areas will get help paying off their student loans. I think there's also some sort of bonus system for teachers in those schools too. And that was the part of NCLB that didn't get funded, the part where low scoring schools get extra mentoring, curriculum development and other programs.

[LauraK]

31. There are alternatives to vouchers that have worked well...

in Australia. Enabling parents to form co-operative education alternatives formed in conjunction with neighborhood or work relationships has worked very well and is very inexpensive when they are allowed to work in concert with local public school programs as with home schooling in Oregon. Results in Austalia and the US have been very promising over the past twenty years and have relieved funding pressures on public schools, in some cases allowing them to improve their perfomance. I believe religious groups have a place in communities but they seldom hold a common thread of educational purpose amongst the individual parents. A group of Democrats is more likely to have a common educational purpose than a like religious group IMO.

[fdr_hst_fan]

5. Ol' Jebbie won't like THAT,

will he?

:nopity: :evilgrin:

[HereSince1628]

27. No, nor the radical right, me fears this just provoked the beast...

Imagine the clamor..."Yeah yeah the war was wrong, no wmds, mission shur tain't accomplished but them damned courts is screwing with our right to protect our childrens faith during their edumacation."

For which party does this dog hunt? I am not sure.

[trotsky]

6. I have never understood the logic of vouchers.

A school is failing, so you give money to SOME parents to pull their kids out. And this helps the failing school how???

[gatlingforme]

8. Logic is not part of the Republican platform. Bush is the poster child

for what is not logical.

[2Design]

13. they want to get rid of public school so if they starve the teachers

and the schools they will fail. That is what no child left behind is doing. All talk and no money. It is draining resources. Trying to drown the schools, teacher union (terrorist according to paige), and totally thwart the process of teaching and what they can't do that way, they will use rw 'plants' on teacher boards, kids to go find books in the library they want to ban, etc.

[trotsky]

14. Oh yes, their hidden agenda is perfectly logical.

When you imagine the motivation behind every Republican initiative on education is "How can we weaken the public school system?" it all becomes painfully obvious.

But the people who actually think vouchers WILL improve failing schools - WTF?

[AirAmFan]

28. Vouchers are a payoff to the religious right--80% of 'private' schools

are religious schools.

And the Florida law is the gift that keeps on giving. The children who get pulled out of 'failing' schools tend NOT to be the failing students. They are students whose parents are involved in their educations. So the following year, a 'failing' school's test scores tend to get even worse, because some of the cheapest-to-teach students are gone, and there's no extra help for the students who are left.

[bullimiami]

29. exactly

and the florida constitution specifically prohibits public money going to religious institutions.
no "law" is going to get around it, they will need a constitutional amendment and I dont think they can pass one.

[AirAmFan]

30. Extreme rightists want to 'cash out' most government-provided services,

because it's hard for them to cut off public education, food aid, medical coverage, etc. DIRECTLY. Economist James Tobin once wrote that Americans strongly support "specific egalitarianism"--less unequal access to specific goods and services most people think everyone should have, such as basic education, food, and health care.

Rabid right-wingers want to get around this obstacle to plutocracy by converting rights to the services themselves into rights to cash subsidies. Then they'll cut back the cash, eventually zeroing out public education, food aid, and Medicaid, and bringing back Dickensian conditions for the poor.

[merh]

7. Way to go Florida!

We are so proud! :bounce:

[flordehinojos]

9. I think there is one hurdle still to go when this decision reaches the Fla

Supreme Court. Sitting in the Florida Supreme Court is FULGENCIO BATISTA Y ZALDIVAR'S GRANDSON (I cannot recall his name but I think he replaced Judge Saunders-Saul. He was appointed to the Fla. Supreme Court post by none other than JEBBIE himself...so,) Don't know how many judges' votes from the Fla. Supreme Court it will take for the ruling to stand. I am willing to bet that Batista's grandson will be voting on the side of letting the vouchers stand.

Also, some of those kids in private religious school are so stuck up with attitudes that so look down upon kinds from the vouchers' sector that as a parent I would not want to send my kid to such an un-even
societal gathering.

Of course, there are those who think that minds need to expand and that exposing one societal level to another is one the ways minds can expand. Perhaps they have a point. :eyes:

[Judi Lynn]

10. Also from The Associated (with bush) Press article:

The governor's office didn't immediately return a call seeking reaction.

What a surprise, right?

[CarolynEC]

15. O... M... G ! What is the backstory...

... on that photo? LOL!

[flordehinojos]

16. Was this picture taken the night Bush lost the elections--or is this a

picture of Jeb receiving the news that vouchers have lost in the appeals court?

[saigon68]

22. A Simian Expression

[mom cat]

26. What a loving, Christian smile...LOL

[tom_paine]

12. And again I say the Judiciary has proven MOST RESILIENT against

parasitization by the Busheviks.

Say what you will but by nearly any measure next to the other apects that have kneeled and licked Imperial Boot, Legilsative, Media, Executive-Regulatory, the Judiciary more than ANY of them seems to take it's duties more seriously.

Which makes them stick out like a sore thumb next to all the other Kneeling Whores.

[bleedingheart]

17. Bush Education Plan - Uneducated Work for LESS!

so if we really screw up the schools we can further push ourselves to the Gilded Age.

[goclark]

18. Oh Happy Happy Happy Day!!!

This is the best Birthday present I could ever have in life!
The Charter school concept, as designed by Bushco, was completely braking the back of public education.

It is simply a ploy to make the Christian right/neo cons able to have inadequate schools for the poor children. They are telling lies to the minority parents!!

Believe me when I tell you, I have seen the Charter Schools,many don't even have playgrounds. They do not have to meet the codes of the Public Schools. They drain the per pupil costs from the Public Schools, even the middle class public schools.

"No Child Left Behind" says test, test, test the children. For what!!!

There has been no quality education since the Charter Schools came into being. The children are treated like plants, just test them every few seconds. It is "TEST not TEACH." The program should have been called," Leave No Test Behind."

The purpose of this is to drain the public schools and trick the parents into believing Charters are better.

I can certainly not speak for all charters but I know what I am talking about, believe me.

I have trained and observed many teachers in Charters.I have trained hundreds of teachers in Public Schools. Many of the Charter teachers are excellent but there is no union and their wages are low.

You can say what you want about unions but the rethugs knew what they were doing. Charter Schools = no accountability, low wages,no voice for the teachers,no unions. That is the agenda.

The Charter schools have limited contracts and no recourse for the teachers. One Charter teacher that I know had to buy her own chalk. There were no books in the classroom!! The teacher had to beg or borrow for books. Most of the Charter teachers are young, fresh out of college and really want to TEACH.

I could go on and on but I am just jumping up and down too much!

To see this happen in Florida is a great victory for Public Education!!

[tlcandie]

32. Agree about the testing! And just who profits from all those tests?!!?

In Texas my daughter-in-law with a science degree applied for two teaching jobs as a science teacher and lost both of them because they hired someone experienced in testing over someone who would be more than capable of actually TEACHING! Pathetic!!!

[goclark]

36. Agree Agree

Who profits? The Testing Publishing Companies profit. Owned by Bush Pals!

Hope your daughter - in - law gets a job! We need great teachers,especially in Science!

[Dudley_DUright]

19. Section 3 of the FL state Constitution is similar to the first amendment

but it actually goes quite a bit further on the question of state funding being used to support religious institutions.

Section III

There shall be no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting or penalizing the free exercise thereof. Religious freedom shall not justify practices inconsistent with public morals, peace or safety. No revenue of the state or any political subdivision or agency thereof shall ever be taken from the public treasury directly or indirectly in aid of any church, sect, or religious denomination or in aid of any sectarian institution.

[happyslug]

21. This is the Blaine Amendment of 1876

In 1876 when it was proposed as an amendment to the Federal Consitution the Superme Court had not yet expaned the First to cover the states (The general Rule prior to WWI was that the Bill of Rights applied ONLY to the Federal Government NOT the states).

In 1876 this was a concern and George Blaine proposed his amemendment. The amemdment passed in the House but failed to get the 2/3 votes needed in the US Senate. Subsequelty it was adopted in 37 states as part of their State Consitutions.

http://www.cumminghome.com/articles/ArticlePTA002.htm

List of States with Blaine Amendments in their State Consitutions:
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
California
Colorado
Delaware
Florida
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Georgia
Hawaii
Kansas
Kentucky
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Mexico
New York
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Oregon
Pennsylvania
South Dakota
South Carolina
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Washington
Wisconsin
Wyoming

One note on George Blaine. If you google the Blaine Amendment you will find a lot of reference to the Nativist's movement and its related Anti-Catholicism of the late 1800s. By implications this makes Blaine appear to be anti-Catholic. That is strange for his parents are buried in a Catholic Church outside Brownsville Pennsylvania (and it appears he himself was raised Catholic). His conversion from Catholicism appears to be more for Political purposes than an real conversion (There is some evidence that he remained Catholic all of his life but he took pains to Cover it up, something in which the Catholic Church appear to have co-operated with him).

When Blaine ran in 1880 against Cleveland the Democratic Motto was "Blaine, Blaine, George C. Blaine that Contintinal liar from the state of Maine". After a speech he left a meeting in New York City to catch a train, he did not stay to hear the next speaker give his definition of the Democratic Party of 1880 as "The party or Rum, Romatism and Rebellion". That speech cost Blaine New York and the Election, it is ironic that so Anti-Catholic a Statement was tied in with a Person born and Raised a Catholic. It is a warning to watch your Political allies, they may do you more harm than good.

[MisterP]

25. I think it's James G. Blaine, not George

his campaign was hit badly by a preacher supporter decrying the Democrats as the party of "Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion." Blaine was rather reformist, as I recall.

[happyslug]

37. That is what I get by going by memory

No Text (n/t)

[Pallas180]

24. It's about time somebody remembered there is a Constitution.

.

[OKNancy]

33. Kick

Kick

[DeepModem Mom]

34. Sorry I duped! Link to post with NYT article, and DU discussion --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x756673

[soup]

35. I'm somewhat confused.

(not a surprising occurrence anymore)

From the article:
>>Under the 1999 law, the centerpiece of Gov. Jeb Bush's education policies, students attending public schools that earn failing grades two years out of four are eligible for vouchers to attend private schools.

Some 600 students in a handful of counties attended private schools using vouchers last year.<<

Where does the '600 students' number come from? Isn't the number of students statewide using voucher monies more in the range of 25,000- 30,000?

Is this a particular sub-set of students that only consists of those attending specific religious schools under one of the three voucher programs? Which programs are affected by this? - the one for corporate tax exemptions? - or the McKay scholarships for special needs children? Does this ruling apply to them as well? Is this a smack-down on vouchers themselves, or only those used for religious schools?

Does this have anything to do with jeb-appointed Florida Education Commissioner Jim Horne suddenly and unexpectedly deciding to quit his $200,000.00 plus a year job last week because "he needs to spend more time with his family"? *snarf* Yeah, un-hunh, we all believe that. There's sure a lot of that going around lately - especially right before the sh*t hits the fan.

Any idea how long it'll take before this is heard by the Florida Supreme Court? Are jeb's judicial appointees, Cantero and Bell, enough to swing the majority in the supreme court over to the pro-bush conservative side? and will they be able to find a way around the ruling?

There's so much money floating around in these voucher deals, so much scandal, so little oversight, so much secrecy. There's some big money pockets involved here, let alone the politics and religion wrapped up in it.

Might get really interesting.

I think it's a very good call by the Appeals Court. It seemed like just one more faction of the sideways slide into a faith-based state from the get-go, along with the systematic destruction of public schooling.

Ah, Florida - bush family testing ground for insanity...

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edit to add this link to article about Horne's resignation - which I missed enitirely last week getting ready for hurricane Charley -
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/news/vouchers/c1a_HORNE_0811.html
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