Bush Allies Till Fertile Soil, Among Baptists, for Votes

[struggle4progress]

President Bush's re-election campaign took its effort to enlist churches in turning out conservative voters to the annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention this week, urging pastors to do everything short of risking their churches' tax-exempt status to support the president's re-election.

Mr. Bush's courtship of Southern Baptists, the largest Protestant denomination, began Tuesday when he addressed them in a live telecast from the White House and thanked them for their prayers. The campaign's appeals picked up in earnest the next day, when Ralph Reed, the former head of the Christian Coalition, who is now an official of the Bush campaign, arrived to ask pastors more explicitly for their help in winning votes.

Mr. Reed delivered his remarks at a Bush-Cheney "pastors reception," paid for by the Bush campaign. The hosts were the departing president of the Southern Baptists and three other prominent leaders, and the reception was in a conference room of a hotel adjacent to the convention. As the pastors came in, a campaign aide collected about 100 signatures and addresses from ministers pledging to endorse Mr. Bush's re-election publicly, to "host a citizenship Sunday for voter registration," to "identify someone who will help in voter registration and outreach" and to organize a " 'party for the president' with other pastors" on specific dates closer to the election.
<snip>

Mr. Bush's political advisers often repeat their belief, Mr. Reed reminded the pastors, that about four million conservative Christian voters did not vote in the last presidential election. The campaign is determined not to let that happen again.
<snip>
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/18/politics/campaign/18baptists.html

[PartyPooper]

1. Whether or not these idiots realize it...they're working for the Devil!

Didn't the pope himself say that Junior was the Anti-Christ?

:grr:

[ropi]

3. hmmm

if he did, then old jpii is in leauge with the devil...ah....time for digging up some nostradamus quatrains!

[struggle4progress]

17. I really doubt that the Pope said anything like that

[PartyPooper]

19. Here's a link to an article by Wayne Madsden on the subject.

http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_9_27/ai_108881880

[struggle4progress]

21. Well, the Wayne Madsen article that started all this ...

( http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html )

does say "People close to the Pope claim ... the Pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations." But it's really not clear to me how "close to the Pope" these people are or how reliable their reporting of the Pope's views might be, especially since the next paragraph begins "According to journalists close to the Vatican, the Pope and his closest advisers are also concerned that the ultimate acts of evil - the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon - were known in advance by senior Bush administration officials."

As much as I admire Madsen (who I do read because he often has important things to say) and as much as I would welcome a credible report that the Pope was leaning towards a LIHOP/MIHOP interpretation of 9/11, I am left with the sneaking suspicion that Madsen's material is not only not first hand, but in fact not even second hand: I think Madsen may be quoting other journalists' accounts of what they've been told by people who are "close to the Pope" (whatever that means).

But thanks for reference. :)

[classof56]

2. Oh, dang!

I hope SBC churches do not let themselves get sucked into this quagmire. I have been attending a Southern Baptist church for awhile (after several "churchless" years), mainly because my parents were lifelong Baptists and for the most part I subscribe to the tenets of the faith. I will be profoundly disappointed if the pastor, a very intense and dedicated young man, feels the need to tell his congregation how to vote, since it will mean I'll no longer attend. I don't make judgements as to the state of anyone's soul, but Bush does give me pause. As Jesus said, "Wisdom is proved right by her actions". Maybe Bush skipped that verse.

Tired Old Cynic

[AndyTiedye]

4. If They Stump for Bush* from the Pulpit, Walk Out!

If enough people do that, the SBC may reconsider its merger with the Republican Party.

[classof56]

9. I actually did that once

Three years ago, during my mainly "churchless" years, I attended on occasion a Baptist church whose young pastor began espousing what I immediately knew to be Rush "Limbaughisms" in a sermon, talking about Pres. Clinton. I walked out and never returned--and he never once bothered to ask me why. I will certainly do that again, if need be. If they want to talk morality, let them start by taking Bush* to task for his constant "bearing false witness".

Appreciate your reply!

[LizW]

7. My theory is

that whether individual SBC churches go down this path or not will depend on the particular pastor. I was a member of a SBC church all my life until the early 80's when the fundamentalist takeover of the denomination made it impossible for me to continue. As you know, one of the tenets of the SBC is that each individual church, while subscribing to the basic beliefs of the denomination, also operates independently on certain matters. For instance, there are SBC churches that ordain women deacons. Others do not. Many SBC churches speak out very publicly against choice, while others never mention the issue publicly.

In my opinion, a church's "liberal" or "conservative" (for lack of better terms) slant is often determined by the pastor the church calls.

The mega SBC church in my city (the 800 lb. gorilla of Baptist churches in the area) has a pastor who is very culturally conservative and biblically fundamentalist. Under his leadership, the whole church takes that tone. Another local SBC church, one that I've attended with friends, has a minister who rarely mentions divisive cultural issues. The focus of his leadership is on biblical teaching, evangelism, charitable concerns and community building. I'm sure if you asked his positions on abortion and homosexuality, you would get the expected answers, but he doesn't wear these issues on his sleeve, and preach about them to the congregation.

The pastors of "liberal" SBC churches, at least in Alabama, have been fighting against the fundamentalist takeover of the denomination for almost 30 years now. It has been a bitter battle. I believe that these pastors will see the Republican "voter drive" for the political ploy it is and will shun it.

[classof56]

12. Thank you, Liz

I appreciate your thoughtful response, and you sharing your ideas on this issue. I think I would like the church you are attending with your friends. When I was a kid, back in the 50s, I belonged to an SBC church in New Mexico, where the pastor's sermons were pretty consistent--one week it was on tithing, the next on joining the church. Made it easy for him, I suppose, and of course back then there were not many social "hot button" issues to deal with. My thought is that churches should not be political, but it is easy to politicize the social concerns you mentioned, like homosexuality and choice. I know that pastors and congregations have to stand up for what they believe, and I don't really fault them for that (the preacher at the SBC church I've been going to does this in his messages), but I strongly feel politics--advocating for candidates, ballot measures, etc.--should not be preached from the pulpit. People are wise enough to make their own decisions about such things, based on their beliefs. You give me hope when you say you believe pastors will see the Republican ploy for what it is and shun it. I'll pray for that. I can be churchless again, but have kind of enjoyed singing those old hymns!

Thank you again.

[drscm]

8. "Maybe Bush skipped that verse."

I'm inclined to think that *Bush skipped reading the whole bible.

After all, he doesn't need the wisdom of the scriptures when he has a direct line to God. Or is that the other way around: God has a direct line to *Bush.

[struggle4progress]

18. A lot of Baptists have been leaving SBC.

Carter did a few years ago.

You have options.

[Wapsie B]

5. The funny thing is

we've had two Presidents in recent history who were Southern Baptists, those being Democrats Carter and Clinton. Wonder how much of the SBC vote those two got.

[Wright Patman]

6. When Carter was elected

the Southern Baptists were still led by rational folks. The nutbars took over around 1979.

Neither Carter nor Clinton, though, carried a majority of the SBC vote. The trogs running the SBC now never quite got used to Clinton carrying a Bible and claiming he was one of them. Carter has since left the denomination, I heard.

[salin]

10. Interesting

that Bushco is realizing that in the campaign they have to invest a lot of energy keeping those who normally would vote for them - to actually go vote. The thing is that it doesn't really expand their voting base - just shores it up. While this is always important (to get the vote out) - it demonstrates that nearly all of their "strengths" - including dependable, activated voters (since the Robertson efforts beginning in the late 80s) - aren't necessarily a "given" strength anymore.

First - campaign as strong and steady leadership during uncertain times... (avoid economics/domestic since many voters aren't feeling so good about their situations)... OOOOPS - all the reasons to go to war have disappeared and been discounted by the admins OWN actions... better back track and not over emphasize that - except to the true believers.

Second - go after the opponent.... OOOOPS - all the charges being flung - too rich/out of touch... not "real" service... "flip/flops"... in comparison make bushco look... well... worse. Strategy may have slowed the increasing support for Kerry - but it hasn't stopped it - and meanwhile the perception of Bush continues to sink (with a minor bump from the Reagan ceremonies - which will probably not last long...)

Third - tout the "compassion policies" and particular the Medicare prescription drug benefits.... OOOOPS - not a whole lot of folks are signing up - too confusing, not a good deal for consumers who get locked in but whose selected plans - based on the "deals" can change any given week leaving them potentially paying the price for the benefit with ZERO relief... as more information comes to the activated senior voting block... the less likely those voters (except the true believers) are to be supportive of not only bush - but the GOP. (As confirmed in poll questions per support of dems vs repubs in Congress... suddenly making both the Senate and House up for grabs - something that conventional wisdom even 12 months ago said was nearly impossible.)

Fourth - with stronger economic numbers - trot out the "strength of the economy" theme.... OOOOPS - plays like a replay of Poppy - given that things are only improving for the wealthy - with inflation, higher wage job losses continuing - with the improved job numbers reportedly being a) lower wage than those lost; and b) disproportionately going to foreign born individuals (though I am not sure how that stacks up compared to who lost earlier jobs...)... the sense of many voters is: This administration is completely out of touch.

So what are they left with? Better really get all the true believers to vote... and keep trying to get a few other votes here or there... and try to suppress all other voting blocks... Oh - and MONEY MONEY MONEY for more propoganda campaigns.

For the money, advertising, and media advantages (esp talk radio/news and cable news) that the GOP and Bushco have... they are really in big trouble. If they end up having to sink more money into reliable voting blocks... they are sunk.

[lil-petunia]

11. tilling the ground, but all those weeds!

The unconstitutional efforts by this grop of idiots to bring gov't and religion (one peculiar version of it) together is more than scary.

[saigon68]

13. When their Drafted Children die in Iraq-Nam Will they blame CHIMPY?

Nah----- they are on a CRUSADE FOR JESUS

[shawn703]

14. I'm doing my part in my Southern Baptist church

There's no way I'm going to get the ultra-conservatives to actually vote for Kerry, but I think I have swayed a few of them (I think even my pastor!) to vote for Peroutka, the Constitution Party candidate. They may not end up voting for the Democrat, but they are "party loyalists" Bush won't be able to count on in November.

[tom_paine]

15. Mobilize the Browshirts. I'm sorry to say it but the Camp Guards

are going to have a larger than demographically proportion representation of Southern Baptists.

My apologies to the good and decent Southern Baptists who choose not to follow the AntiChrist Bush*, but that's how I see it.

[LastDemocratInSC]

16. What's the difference between a Baptist mega-church and a shopping mall?

There is no difference. Around here mega-churches look, on the inside and out, just like shopping malls. They have gift shops, food courts, large common areas and bookstores (not just any books, though). The churches have become almost completely secular from outward appearances. This is to appeal to the "un-churched" who don't want to be told that they are sinning hell-bound cretins - they want to be considered religion consumers instead, and they WILL shop around until they find a God-mall that makes them feel comfortable.

Is there any wonder that the Repukes scoop these folks up so easily? They have lost any sense of their mission and can't see the difference between the sacred and profane. The sacred is for little Episcopal ladies on Sunday mornings, the profane is for 24/7 consumption with wide-screen TV monitors behind the pulpit and spotlights on the gel-haired apostle at the pulpit.

Isn't it great? God created us in his image and we were thoughtful enough to return the favor.

[progressivebydesign]

20. Frankly, I think they've ALREADY stepped WAAY over the boundaries..

.. and should have their tax-exempt status revoked. How sick to see the politicians pandering to the religious folks. Disgusting.