Pentagon seeks OK to spy on Americans

[CShine]

Newsweek reports that the US Department of Defense is looking for the right to gather information from, and about, Americans, without having to tell them that they are doing so. "Without a public hearing or debate," the news magazine reports, "Defense officials recently slipped a provision into a bill before Congress that could vastly expand the Pentagon's ability to gather intelligence inside the United States, including recruiting citizens as informants."

Currently all military intelligence organizations must comply with the Privacy Act. The act is a Watergate-era law that requires that any government official who is seeking information from a resident of the US disclose who they are and why they are seeking the information. But Newsweek reports that last month the Senate Intelligence Committee, in closed session, added the provision that would exempt the Pentagon from this restriction.

Among those pushing for the bill was "NORTHCOM," the new North American command set up by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in Colorado. NORTHCOM's mission is to over see "homeland defense."

A report by the Senate Intelligence Committee says the provision would allow military intel agents to "approach potential sources and collect personal information from them" without disclosing they work for the government. The justification: "Current counterterrorism operations," the report explains, which require "greater latitude ... both overseas and within the United States." ... Pentagon lawyers insist agents will still be legally barred from domestic "law enforcement." But watchdog groups see a potentially alarming "mission creep." "This... is giving them the authority to spy on Americans," said Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies, a group frequently critical of the war on terror. "And it's all been done with no public discussion, in the dark of night."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0617/dailyUpdate.html

[arwalden]

1. "Papers, Please."

[2Design]

2. Now wouldn't that be lovely....eom

[UpInArms]

3. this is un-Constitutional

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[kayell]

13. But, everything is different now...

Don't you know that the founding fathers didn't mean the Constitution to apply in the event of terrorism? Sheesh.

[denverbill]

14. 9-11 changed everything. That's what I'm told, anyway.

That's a pretty damned good excuse though. I now use it when I'm late for work, caught speeding, or late with my bills.

[Bandit]

18. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha Ha Ha ha ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

You be a very funny person. ROTFLMAO

[UpInArms]

23. I realize that I have become in Orwell's world

a comedic act.

I am a clown with a sad face.

[gWbush is Mabus]

4. There you have it .>>> Osama won the war on terrorism

America will be forever fucked up thanks to Osama and Bush.

...when will I awake from this horrible nightmare?

[Just Me]

5. This is so dangerous particularly given the culpability of,...

,...those administering the Pentagon. People should definitely be a bit more than just concerned over this expansion of power to spy on Americans. It is subject to abuses that endanger every American citizen.

Pretty scary shit, if you ask me.

[gWbush is Mabus]

6. they WILL spy on democrats

it's already in the Rove/Bush book of blackmail/revenge

[Q3JR4]

7. ...

Nothing from these neo-Nazis surprise me.

[fdr_hst_fan]

9. Neo-Nazis is right;

I've been saying that for months on other sites, and they laugh at me and call me paranoid, but it's NOT paranoia-it's history repeating itself. Leave us not forget that Dubya's grandfather, Prescott Bush, was a Nazi sympathizer.

[happynewyear]

12. you are correct of course

Proof right here too:

[0007]

19. Damn the German guy Maximillian Freiherr von Weichs is a dead ringer

for that Okahoma guy, Senator Inhofe

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. A licence to spy illegally

"Pentagon lawyers insist agents will still be legally barred from domestic 'law enforcement.'"

Of course they will. The Pentagon is not looking to enforce the law; it's looking for ways to break it, without anyone noticing.

[fdr_hst_fan]

10. Weren't there Congressional

hearing held about this sort of thing in the wake of Watergate? You know, abouot internal espionage by the CIA? I know this isn't the CIA this time, but still...

[reprobate]

11. Sure, we all bitch and complain. Meanwhile.......

...the govt is in the hands of the evil doers and nothing will be done to reverse this bill.

Unless we win congress back this time around, even a Kerry presidency won't be able to reverse this. Only a vote to reverse by the congress will be able to stop the nazis, and the chances of taking over congress are slim and none.

And if you're waiting for the courts to declare it unconstitutional, well, don't hold your breath. That was the reason the nazis wanted all those repug judges appointed.

I'm waiting to see what a Kerry presidency holds. I'm afraid even liberal Kerry will not be able to do much to change the direction that our gov't has taken in the last three and a half years.

Maybe Costa Rica?

[jukes]

15. i'm thinking

curacao or belize.

[tom_paine]

16. They are going to get it, too

The Empire has not yet begun to squeeze our throats intheir iron fists.

Nazi fucks! Free America WILL OPPOSE YOU!

[struggle4progress]

17. The Bushistas want Secret Police!

[NashVegas]

20. Old Story - Duplicate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=620025

[Canuckistanian]

21. Violation of Posse Comitatus

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.

[struggle4progress]

22. later law supersedes earlier?

Ya know, the Reaganista neocons hated Posse Commitatus and wanted to get rid of it in the 80s.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

24. I think military intel or the OSI or CID already does this.

I cant really give any details here, but I am pretty sure that they arleady have been doing this.

I think they are just keeping tabs on whats going on "outside the gate" around military bases, keeping tabs on potential troublemakers.

Whether this is legal or not I dont know. But i think its been going on, at least since the early 1980s.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Does anyone think they're not already doing it?

Whether it's "okayed," or not, probably makes little difference.