Clinton Says Infidelity Was a Convenience

[JI7]

isn't this the same reason bush starts wars ? simply because he could ? at least clinton's wasn't with evil intentions and more of a personal thing. and clinton admits his wrongs. bush is proud of people dying with him as president.

<Former President Bill Clinton says he was unfaithful to his wife Hillary with intern Monica Lewinsky simply because I could, CBS reported Thursday.

Clinton made the remarks during a taped interview with Dan Rather for this weekend's 60 Minutes and said the affair put him in the doghouse with his wife and daughter, Chelsea.

He said his wife needed time with him to decide whether she would stay married to him.

I think I did something for the worst possible reason -- just because I could, Clinton said. I think that's ... just about the most morally indefensible reason that anybody could have for doing anything.

Clinton is promoting his upcoming memoir, My Life, and reportedly will be help campaign on behalf of Democratic Sen. John Kerry's presidential bid as part of his tour. >

http://www.ktok.com/script/headline_newsmanager.php?id=320543&pagecontent=nationalnews&feed_id=59

[DulceDecorum]

1. He made love, not war.

And Monica always left with a smile.

Ain't nobody smiling much these days.
http://www.geocities.com/trebor_92627/Bush.htm

[Mr.Green93]

3. Monica always left with a smile.

or at least whiter teeth

[AngryAmish]

33. EWWWWWWWWWW

[TahitiNut]

36. Is this her smile? From this photo, she's become even more of a blimp

[DulceDecorum]

40. Bulimic, she ain't.

Monica provided material to several thousand comedians,
not to mention several hundred indignant preachers,
and scores of rightwing talk show hosts,
most of whom are now unemployed,
uninsured,
and worrying about the draft.

Clinton gave us Monica.
Dubya gave us Abu Graib.

[Catherine Vincent]

51. Is that Monica? Geeze Louise!

I thought she was losing weight?

[TahitiNut]

58. Jenny Craig lost money on that one.

[DarbyUSMC]

65. You've never had a picture made that makes you look awful? Lucky.

Would it have been less of a scandal if she looked like Meg Ryan? Would that change the equation? I think the reason he liked her in the first place was because she wasn't intimidated by him. He was able to joke around with her and propinquity got him. The biggest mistake he made other than breaking the top three rules of the game, was not to make sure she understood the rules of the game. 1. Do not ever talk about this. 2. Don't call me at work. 3. Trust no one.

More or less similar to a man's rules. Deny, deny, deny. I've heard the righteous right make fun of Hillary's looks. They had to look long and hard to find a bad picture of her but they managed. Same with Bill. I've always been curious about people who find fault with someone's looks. Just a pet peeve of mine. There are a lot of reasons to dislike people. If you've never been bullied about anything, maybe you wouldn't realize what it is like. That is probably what led her into such a predicament. She confided in people she thought were friends because of her low opinion of herself. Being with Bill, at least in her mind, made her "somebody", and if she didn't confide in anyone, no one would know that she was special to at least one person.

[Tansy_Gold]

69. thanks, Darby

You hit the nail on the head (no pun intended).

Tansy Gold, who's been bullied, teased, humiliated, embarrassed, and worse

[TahitiNut]

70. As an OBW (Old Beached Whale) ...

... who has gained about 30# in the last year (and looks with increased horror at his image in the mirror) at least somewhat due to certain "life circumstances," I think my making note of her apparent attempt to corner the market on avoirdupois, however hopeless, is far from being worthy of lectures. :shrug:

[Gman]

21. That IS the point

Bill did not hurt the country, although Hillary & Chelsea had every reason to disown him. The impeachment was nothing at all but the most extreme of petty bullshit that made it onto a grandiose scale. That was the RW's best shot. That was all they could do. They had nothing better to nail Clinton with. Nothing but a lie about sex.

We all know the answer to the question of which is worse, a lie about consensual "sex" or many lies about why to invade a foreign country and repeal constitutional rights.

[Jabbery]

2. It was a non-issue

Why the man is even talking about it diminishes America. He deserves to discuss the issues, not his pecker.

[JI7]

5. mostly because they impeached him for it

so it has to be discussed when discussing his presidency. don't believe the right wingers who try to claim it wasn't about sex.

[Tellurian]

10. Thank You, non issues are criteria for Impeachment!

that is about the size of it..

when lying to the public, treason and seditious acts, torture and murder issues are raised, Congress ignores them as criteria rising to the level of Impeachable offenses.

[displacedtexan]

14. Diminishes America?

Had he not "discussed his pecker," would you have complained? President Clinton is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't in this moral argument.

The issues belong in the legal argument department.

There are only 2 types of argumentation, and the 2 can't be confused. This is what Rushbo's ancestors (the freaks who stand on boxes at Speakers' Corner) are famous for.

President Clinton has written a book about his life. Millions of us will buy it, read it, and keep it prominently displayed. Period.

[lancdem]

17. He was asked about it during the interview

and this is the part CBS chose to publish, obviously to pique interest.

[Q3JR4]

4. This is great.

It basically removes it as an issue in his campaign help to Kerry. "Yeah I screwed up, but I'm admitting it and I'm apologizing."

Let's see those bastards try to spin that.

[Tellurian]

6. It takes a very BIG person to admit their mistakes..and even a BIGGER ONE

to admit they made a mistake publicly, on National TV!

[meow2u3]

62. ...and yet even a STILL BIGGER person...

to admit not only what they did wrong, but why, especially when the "why" is "because he or she could.

On one hand, Clinton admitted he ran around on Hillary because he could; on the other hand, the Rethugs in Congress refuse to admit they impeached him because they could.

[wryter2000]

7. My jaw hit the floor

I was watching him on the CBS Evening News, and I almost dropped the snake I was holding. I've never heard a public figure say something so utterly devoid of spin or self-service in my entire life. I wish the bunch in charge now had one one-hundredth of his integrity.

[cybildisobedience]

9. snake?

do tell....

[Lindacooks]

13. That's what I remember most about his presidency

He told the truth about IMPORTANT ISSUES. I remember just being amazed that the grownups were in charge.

[hertopos]

46. I agree.

This shows his true color.
I wish he were still our president...

Please Bill, come back to work for U.S. one more time.
Hertopos

[Screaming Lord Byron]

8. Why is it still an issue?

He's paid his due.

[jdj]

29. The man is a genius, a GENIUS, I tell you!

Perfect timing. Now that the 9/11 commission says no link between 9/11 and Iraq, the issue will come down to "So, Mr. President, why DID you invade Iraq? And the answer, as we all know, is "BECAUSE I COULD." And I believe this is what Clinton is addressing in this quote, despite it being a response to a question about a blow-job. And Clinton has labeled it morally indefensible as well, and this statement really applies to Bush, too, as he intended it. He's really guiding public consciousness with an invisible hand, here.

Not to mention setting a trap for the repukes to start their soap-box sermonizing all over again and keep his name in the press. Every article will say, "Clinton recently released his memoirs, on sale now." Ka-ching!!!

If they were smart they would shut the hell up about this, the comparison between how much $ they spent on the blow-job investigation vs. how pathetically little $ they spent of the 9/11 investigation is something they shouldn't want to bring attention too. And they can't blame the democrats, they had control of the congressional purse-strings in both instances.

[ronnykmarshall]

44. and it will give the freepers

a reason to avoid talking about the doo-doo that is hitting the fan w/ GWB.

They are STILL obsessed with Bill Clinton and they always will.

[boobooday]

11. Honesty and Integrity -- remember that?

I know that what he did wasn't reflective of integrity, but his honest, forthright way of explaining it is. He also has the ability to admit mistakes, something we haven't seen for a few years.

And damn, remember honesty? Wow.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[bacchant]

12. He's got a book to sell

and unfortunately, a great number of potential readers will fixate on the tawdry issues, so give 'em what they want.

[daleo]

15. I suppose a lot of the media focus during his book tour will be on this

The Lewinsky matter will probably be rehashed endlessly to provide a distraction for the chimp's lies and blunders. I am sure Clinton's book will have a ton of stuff more valuable to public discourse that will be ignored. However, the people's liking for Clinton may force the media to come around and focus on the many positives of the man and his administration as well.

[dkf]

16. I don't think your title is quite what he said.

Dislike Clinton, do you?

[JI7]

18. check the rules

the title is the title of the article and when posting on lbn forum it says you have to post the title of the article. and i guess you didn't read what i wrote above the quoted articles where i am obviously on clinton's side.

[1monster]

19. In defense of the original poster, Late Breaking News rules state that

the title of the thread MUST be the same as the title of the article. It was not the poster who made up that title. It was the online newspaper that did that.

The spin begins again.

[Tellurian]

24. Yes, and J17 also provided an explanation. He is always on our side.

I've never seen a post written by him that isn't pro Kerry/Clinton..

otoh...

[lancdem]

20. No, he likes Clinton

The point is, Clinton was being honest and took full responsibility, which is refreshing in this day and age.

[JI7]

22. thanks

exactly my point. also that what clinton did is nothing compared to what bush has done. and anyone who read my own opinion before i posted the article could see that.

[BiggJawn]

23. No, the KTOK writer doesn't like Clinton...

Funny how they spun "because I could" into "I blew my load all over her blue dress because she was 'convenient'..."

"Liberal Media"? S'Yeah, Right......

Ohhhhhh....."Newsradio 1000"......Clear Channel? Gush Pfleghmball station?

Duh!

[Tellurian]

26. Truth is stranger than fiction..

and Clinton is telling it the way it was.

He was the most powerful leader in the FREE World..

Do notice, we're not that free anymore..

[emad]

25. Never forget the comment made by Little Rock waitress at the

time of the Lweinsky biz on the TV: "So long as he ain't screwing the country, I don't care what he does...." Pity same could never be said of Dumbo.

[Tellurian]

28. Jack Kennedy made the same remark...I think thats where the waitress gotit

[Virginian]

27. Weakness of the flesh, is

a lapse in an otherwise good character.

Bush has always been a bully, indicating a flawed character. This same trait is why we are in this mess in Iraq.

[radwriter0555]

30. I've always said, there is nary a man in the world who, if he THINKS he

can get away with it, will turn down the offer of a quickie, regardless of from whom.

Then again, I'm always amazed at what men will DO to get 'sex'. They'll risk their lives, wives, families and fortune, for a few moments of physical gratification.

This is the prime example of how weak men are.

While women will risk all for LOVE, men will risk all for SEX.

Poor things.

[enki23]

31. so both sexes are equally fucked then

how many thousands of women will put up with the most unbelievable things, abuse and otherwise, for "love?"

maybe we aren't "equally" fucked...

note: i don't actually buy this particular dichotomy. i'm just pointing out that is doesn't necessarily work out so nicely for the female side.

[Tellurian]

32. The higher your position in life, the more vulnerable you become..

Coveting and Jealousy from your peers are the primary pitfalls, I think..

[lancdem]

34. And the temptations are greater

Even unattractive men in power can get tons of women (Clinton was powerful AND attractive, IMO).

[Tellurian]

39. (fleeting) power gives one a false sense of security...

and that was the only base Clinton never covered.

[jdj]

35. yeah, poor things.

cry me a river.

Not only will they do this, but then they will go all Jesse Helms and say that if gay men quit having sex, there wouldn't be any more cases of AIDS in this country. And it's not just the Monicas of the world, I was amazed at how many married men my gay male friends would talk about getting hit on by, in bars, or straight delivery men, or whatever.

I don't really think women lag that far behind men in marital infidelity, do they? 20 or 30 percent at the most.

[dawg]

37. Please allow me to introduce myself ...

I'm the man you do not believe exists. I would turn down a quickie from anyone except my wife - even if there was no possibility of anyone finding out. O8)

[geniph]

38. It's not quite that black and white, of course...

I've gotten myself in a hell of a lot of trouble for nothing more than a quickie...and I know guys who've broken up their marriages, lost jobs, etc., not for sex but for love.

All generalizations will eventually break down when applied to individuals.

[Canuckistanian]

41. Well, what other reason is there?

Can someone force you to commit infidelities? What possible defensible reason is there?

[dolstein]

42. I've said it before, I'll say it again -- I will NEVER forgive Clinton

I was a volunteer for Clinton in New Hampshire in early 1992. I voted for the guy in '92 and '96. I'm a hard core New Democrat. I'll defend Clinton's policies to my last breath. But I cannot defend Clinton's personal behavior. If you want to cheat on your wife, fine -- but DON'T RUN FOR PRESIDENT. And if you are fortunate enough to be elected to the highest office in the land, FOR GOD'S SAKE KEEP YOUR DAMN FLY ZIPPED.

This goes beyond personal morality, folks. After what happened to Gary Hart in 1988, and with the Gennifer Flowers "bimbo eruption" in 1992, Clinton had to have known that there was a good chance he'd get caught. He had to have known that the right wing attack machine was just looking for the right opportunity to bring him down. And despite all that, he risked his entire presidency, not to mention the electoral fortunes of his own party, and the fate of millions of Americans whose livelihood depends on progressive government, just to screw around with an intern. Apparently, being leader of the free world just wasn't enough for Clinton -- he wanted sex, lots of it, a lot more than Hillary was willing to give him.

Those DU'ers who continue to defend Clinton's right to carry on an affair with an intern are simply incapable of recognizing just how selfish and irresponsible Clinton's actions were.

[SemperEadem]

45. Or perhaps

we choose to forgive him, letting ourselves out of the cold, unfeeling prison of being overly judgemental in our righteous indignation, when we understand that all fall short before the grace of God.

[Tellurian]

47. Yep, Yep, and Yep...

It takes more energy to carry a grudge, than to simply forgive.

And the old adage: He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.. Clinton may have infidelity on his side but who knows what lies beneath those, who would castigate him for it.

[truthisfreedom]

48. and nobody died.

so it doesn't matter. calm down.

[dolstein]

53. How many people have died in Iraq?

Do you really believe that Bush would have gotten elected if not for the Lewinsky scandal?

Sorry, but Clinton's behavior had consequences -- to his own presidency, to his party, and certainly for Gore's campaign in 2000. Because of the Lewinsky scandal, Clinton had a toxic affect on swing voters. This isn't idle speculation on my part -- Gore's internal polling repeatedly showed this.

[Jim Sagle]

49. And those few DUers who continue to moralize about a bj are bereft of

historical understanding and a sense of proportion.

[loudsue]

50. Man, dolstein.....you truly lack perspective in life....it's a shame

that so many freepers feel this way....dogmatism imprisons the mind.

:kick::kick::kick:

[dolstein]

54. Now, I do have perspective, unlike many others around here

who seem entirely oblivious to the consequences Clinton's personal behavior had on public policy.

How can you continue to pretend that this was also just a trivial matter? The impeachment and its aftermath consumed the final two years of Clinton's presidency. It made it possible for Bush to get elected.

You can continue to live in your own fantasy world, where scandals simply don't matter. But I'm living in the real world.

[loudsue]

61. Put the blame on the neocons, where it BELONGS.....

This blow job was NONE OF ANYBODY'S BUSINESS except Bill's and Hillary's. It DID NOT kill anyone, it DID NOT compromise national security. THE NEOCONS killed people when they stole the 2000 election and installed a mad man who allowed 9/11. The NEOCONS forced president Clinton out of focus on the nation. The NEOCONS compromised national security....they tied Clinton's hands.

Blame Clinton for the infidelity. BLAME THE NEOCONS FOR THE SCANDAL, and all the mess that insued.

:kick::kick:

[dolstein]

63. The neocons forced Bill's **** into Monica's mouth? I did not know that

Do you really believe the tired cliches that you're spouting about Bill and his "harmless" affair with an intern?

After a lengy impeachment trial, an inferior Republican candidate campaigning successfully to "restore honor and dignity to the White House" and the disastraous policies that have ensued . . . you're still trying to argue that what happened was none of our business?

Sorry, but we aren't living in your fantasy world where the press still respects the private lives of its politicians. That world no longer existed in 1992. Clinton himself acknowledged it when he went on 60 minutes not to lecture the American public about how his private life was nobody's business, but to admit having caused pain in his marriage.

I hate having to repeat myself, but since it obviously hasn't sunk in, I will do so now: Bill Clinton knew that his reckless and egregiously selfish decision to have an affair with an intern could have disastrous results, not only for himself and his family, but for his administration and its policies, for the Democratic Party, and for its next presidential candidate. He ignored all of the warnings signs -- the bimbo eruptions in 1992, the increasingly well organized right-wing hate campaign, the Starr investigation -- pointing to the strong likelihood that he'd get caught. He risked his entire administration, the future of the Democratic Party, and the lives of millions of Americans who depend on enlightened, progressive government, for what? That's right, for a BLOW JOB.

[FlaGranny]

52. See below -

1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

I am not a Christian, but have no problems with forgiveness.

[librechik]

66. fraid so

and what crap that "convenience" excuse is. Can you get a little self control for goawd's sake?

:puke:

[dolstein]

68. I can't see why DU'ers buy into this "moral weakness" argument

Anyone who has met Bill Clinton knows that this guy isn't weak. He's incredibly bright, incredibly savvy. He's a tough guy -- you have to be to get as far as he did in politics.

Frankly, I find this suggestion that Clinton couldn't help himself, that we are to sympathize will him, not blame him for his actions, to be downright insulting. The Lewinsky scandal has nothing to do with Clinton's weakness and everything to do with his enormous ego and selfishness. He knew exactly what he was getting into, he knew exactly what the consequences could be, but he simply didn't care about anything other than his immediate sexual gratification.

[Catherine Vincent]

71. I totally agree with your last sentence.

Clinton didn't care at the time, he just wanted to release and he went for it. But I do believe he didn't think those rabid repiglicans would go as far as they did.

[0007]

43. Somtimes the only way we appreciate the things we have is after

we fuck up big time. This man made a mistake that proves he's only human. I do believe he is truly sorry.

I was so pissed at him at the time, for even opening his mouth and pointing his finger - when it would had been cooler not say a word.

I love the guy for having the balls to come out in front now.

[swinney]

55. Impeach This Record

30 CLINTON CHARACTER LIST
Thank you –For caring for
Children
Elderly
Poor
Students
Schools
Educational Infrastructure
Disabled
Small Business
Americans who suffered losses in natural disasters
For 22.4 Million Net New Jobs
For better paying jobs
For increasing the Minimum Wage
For keeping our servicemen and women out of harm’s way
For making America a proud nation thru the eyes of friends
For having a popularity rating of 98.5% in a Moscow Poll
For having the highest poll ratings of any Peacetime President in Europe-Africa-Asia
For being an active church attendee
For carrying your Bible to church all your life
For carrying your small brother to church each Sunday
For being a devoted and successful father
For giving America Hillary to serve us
For trying to de-politicize politics
For not having a Mean bone in your body
For not being vengeful toward your opponents
For your sincere faith in a living God
For being polite and gracious to all persons you meet
For a sincere, caring attitude toward my family
For a being worse golfer than I
For having, in eight years, only one member of your administration “convicted” of a “felony” which was “committed while working for you”.
For standing up, without a whimper, to the attacks which spent $110,000,000 in a failed effort to destroy your administration.
For you and Hillary being my choice for my-- Lifeaholics Of America Award-- for a quarter century of Service To Mankind.
For Working For A Life Not Just A Living
Just know this Mr. President Hundreds of millions in this world LOVE YOU as does GOD.
Clarence Swinney
PO Box 3411
Burlington NC 27215
President-Retired
Lifeaholic of America---(work for a life not just a living)
“

[swinney]

56. Impeach this Record

Tried to get Universal Health Care
National Health Care Costs rising at 10% per annum. Cut to 3%
Deficit Reduction Package
Crime Bill
100,000 cops on street—crime down down down
Welfare Reform-- Mend do not end. GOP helped bit time
80% increase in child welfare payments
Job Growth-Record 236,000 per month. (Reagan/Bush 167,000)
Largest percentage of Americans working in history
Largest Home Ownership in history
Record number of small business formations
Tax Cut for 15 million working families
Family and Medical Leave Act
Defense Reinvest and Conversion—Bush enjoying weapons created by Clinton
Direct loan programs for students
Guts to put promises in a book "Putting People First"-58 promises in book. Took action on 56 in first two years.
Second best record in history for getting legislation through Congress in first to years. LBJ number one.
Reinvented Government—cut payroll
Fewest number of civilians on federal payroll in 36 years
Attacked cop killing nasty rifle association.
Attacked the cancer inducing tobacco industry
Promoted a global effort to ban abusive forms of child labor
Loan 12.8 Billion to Mexico. Made 800 Million profit. Kept Mexico afloat.
Wash. Post kept list of campaign promises. 162. Took action on 96% in first two years.
Took on prejudice toward other Americans in military
Took on his own Southern Baptist Church
Hard smart work in Middle East and Bosnia-Kosovo
Honored with all of the following:
Dove of Peace Award
Rabin-Peres Peace Award
Gandhi Peace Award
Order of Good Hope Award
Nominated for Nobel Peace Award
Northern Ireland Peace Agreement
Lifeaholics of America Award for Quarter Century "Working for a Life Not Just A Living".
First President to visit Northern Ireland
Cleanup of Toxic sites. Record
Increasing weekly earnings
Shoo Shoo Saddam get away from Kuwait
Stopping Haitians from drowning enroute to freedom
First to visit South Africa
First to make a determined effort to help the African continent come together and grow together
Taxing top 1.2% of very wealthy to get Zoom Zoom Boom economy
Stopping Republicans in the House from raiding Medicare of 181 Billion
Stopping Republicans raid on Medicaid
Stopping Republicans raid on education
Stopping Republicans attack on environment
Largest increase in Education funding since GI Bill
Increased funding for Head Start
Nafta.. A success until the Peso went south
Submitting 8 budgets close to rate of inflation
Brady Bill
Gaat
Assault Weapons Ban
Telling Japan "You take our auto parts or we will apply tariffs on you
California Desert Protection
Forest Management Plan for Northwest
Restoration of Florida Everglades
Preservation of land in Utah
Major increase in funding for homeless
Motor Voter Act
Lobbying Reform Effort. Handshake with Newt who reneged
Pressure to get Campaign Finance Reform.
National Export Strategy. Unbelievable success.
Over 250 Trade pacts
Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Pact
Summit of Americas
Super 301
Chemical Weapons Ban Treaty.
Bottom Up Review of Military
Agreement with Cuba to stop flow of immigrants to USA.
Ameri-Corps
Reduced Nuclear Threat Around the World
Community Banking Act
FEMA used as an active participant and a leader in disaster relief
Tax on well off social security beneficiaries
100,000 new teachers effort
5,000 new classroom effort
50% of classes thru K-12 on internet
Fourth Graders improvement on world tests
Lifetime Learning Opportunity Program
Controls on Spending and Borrowing
Pension Protection Act of 1994
Record high consumer confidence
Very, very, very low Misery Index
National Agenda on Racial Prejudices
First to get African-American unemployment under 10%
Balanced Budget
Record Corporate profits
Record Bank profits
Record Savings and Loan profits
Never whining despite non-sop smears and attacks
Not having a Mean Bone in his body per Historian David Maraniss
Not knowing how to hate
Classing others as "opponents" not "enemies"
Inviting your attackers to the White House functions
Inviting your defeated opponent Bob Dole to visit troops at Christmas
A national attack on hate crimes
Fighting to protect "legal" immigrants from Republicans in the House.
Fighting hard for Fast Track legislation
Kennedy and Kassenbaum Portability of Insurance
Lowest interest rates in 30 years
Allowing millions of homeowners to refinance home loans at lower (much) rates
Lowest unemployment in 25 years
Lowest inflation in 25 years
Lowest welfare rolls in 27 years
Lowest crime Rates in 25 years
First balanced budget sent to Congress in 29 years
Protecting worker pensions (repeat?)
Opposed ban on "Late Term Abortions"
A stock market which passed a 1,000 mark six times
Greatest growth in federal revenues in history
Played Saxophone and Smoked Peace Pipe, instead of beating War Drums like____.
One of History's all time workers for Peace
President in a year when Fortune Magazine classified it as "Greatest Economy in the History of the world"
Popularity jump in the midst of a scandal.
President with highest peacetime popularity in Asia, Africa, Russia and Europe.
Highest popularity of any president at end of fifth year in office
One of the most highly regarded First Lady in History.
One of the most highly regarded Vice-President in History

[Piperay]

57. I would like to hear chimpy

take responsibility for what he has done 'because he could'. I know that I will never hear it though, not from a man who can't even say he made a mistake on anything. :argh: :mad:

[lostnfound]

59. 'Convenience' puts a word in his mouth; a very bad headline

He didn't say 'convenience'; he said he did it because 'he could'. 'Convenience' sounds much worse, like he didn't even consider it wrong or consider Monica Lewinski to be a person.

[Democat]

60. Do you expect anything less from the media who never says Bush is lying?

We all know where the U.S. media's loyalty is, and it's not to our side.

[Digit]

64. What's the big deal?

Men can't turn down a bj...plain and simple.


Maybe that is a good reason to have a woman in the white house.:P

[dolstein]

67. What's the big deal? Well, for starters

Clinton was impeached. His effectiveness as a policy maker was fatally compromised. The Republican right-wing was emboldened. George Bush was able to craft a campaign predicated upon "restoring honor and dignity to the White House" (translation: no blow jobs). The Clinton scandal cost Gore critical support among swing voters.

Clinton's selfish, reckless and, yes, immoral behavior, handed the Republicans a huge weapon to wield against the Democratic Party.

So let's wrap it up: no blow job, no scandal. No scandal, no impeachment. No impeachment, no Bush victory. No Bush victory, no huge tax cut, no huge deficits, no foreign policies disasters, etc.

No big deal. Yeah, right.

[Catherine Vincent]

72. As I said above, what you say is totally true.

But Clinton didn't think about the consequences of his actions and surely did not realize how far the repukes would go. He figured he would be tarnished with some sex scandal and he would get out of it. I am sure while he was being aroused by Monica, the word impeachment wasn't coming across his mind.

[dolstein]

73. Hmmmmm . . . .

Personally, I refuse to accept the notion that Clinton was so stupid that he didn't realize how politically catastrophic a sex scandal would be. But even if we accept your view of things, that still means that Clinton made a calculated decision to proceed with the affair knowing that his presidency, while not being destroyed, would still be tarnished. Isn't that bad enough? How is that kind of political calculus acceptable? What gave him the right to take that kind of risk? Didn't he owe it the voters, and his staffers and everyone else who had worked so damn hard to get him into the White House in the first place not to f*ck things up?

Again, while I personally believe that what he did was immoral, my condemnation of Clinton is not so much a moral judgement, but a condemnation of his recklessness and selfishness. Even someone who believes that cheating on your wife is morally defensible should have difficulty defending the enormous political risk he was taking. Clinton was playing a game of Russian roulette. And even if the outcome was "only" major political damage rather than outright political suicide, that was still far too great a risk to take.

Seriously, the defense that "oh, I never figured I'd get impeached over something like this" just strikes me as less-than-persuasive.