Flag amendment gets preliminary approval

[CShine]

WASHINGTON -- A Senate subcommittee approved a constitutional amendment today that would allow Congress to take steps to protect the U.S. flag from desecration.

"There are many ways to express one's political views, but there is only one U.S. flag and it deserves constitutional protection," said Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas. Cornyn is chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Property Rights.

The amendment was approved 5-4 along party lines. Changing the Constitution requires approval of two-thirds of both chambers of Congress and three-fourths of the nation's state legislatures. The bill now goes to the full committee.

Sen. Russell Feingold, the subcommittee's ranking Democrat, said he opposes the proposed amendment. "We are talking here today about amending the Constitution of the United States to permit the government to criminalize conduct that, however misguided and wrong, is clearly expressive, and sometimes undertaken as a form of political protest. I cannot support this course," said Feingold, D-Wis.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2605974

[Democat]

1. Good for Russ Feingold! Free speech means free speech, not this bullshit!

What part of free speech do these assholes not understand?

[rocktivity]

2. If we don't have the right to desecrate the flag

we don't have the right to display it.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Philostopher]

8. I wonder if 'desecration'

includes my cretin neighbors who staple their goddamn flags to the flashing above their garage doors and leave it out there regardless of the weather ... or the old crank-job on the corner who lets it fall out of the mount and drag on the ground all the time ... I was raised to believe those things were desecration, too.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

25. Yeah, that or stickers on cars, or faded pieces of shit fluttering

from car antennas.

Or putting it on advertisements, jackets or shirts?

I say bring it on. But add so much stuff to it the only place we see the flag is on US Government buildings

[Zhade]

26. Hey, I have a flag sticker on my car...

Of course, it's upside-down in the internationally-recognized distress position, but still.

Sad thing is, most rabid flag-nuts fail to realize what my sticker means!

[yardwork]

34. Hmmmmm. Maybe this would be a GOOD thing after all.

Maybe the law could be used to fine or jail a lot of freeper morans.

Not that I'm interested in revenge or anything....

[MrSlayer]

3. These guys love to strip away freedoms.

They forget what the flag is supposed to stand for.

[Just Me]

4. When an inanimate symbol receives greater protection than people,...

,...something is very bad wrong. About 43 million American human beings are now being desecrated,...by poverty,...in the richest nation on earth. Why don't we grant them some constitutional protections?

[freetobegay]

5. How many fucking amendments do these assholes want?

Why not just burn the Constitution & start over! We'll use repukes as "Faggots" to start the flames!

[crossroads]

27. The Fanatics want to shred the Constitution

bit by bit till there is nothing left! They remember Vietnam and want to make it a criminal offense so there is no flag burning. They know this war is unpopular. I remember the anti-war demonstrations of the 60s...
:eyes:

[AG78]

6. I hate flags

I wouldn't burn one if I could.

[Nevernose]

7. Definitely an election year

This, combined with the balanced budget amendment, is political poison for progressives.

[sundancekid]

9. the repukes are all about "surface" and never "substance"

Now, I ask you, of ALL the real constitutional issues that slap us in the face today (like the whole secret government crap of *&Co for openers) why would some people devote themselves to "appearances" of protection inherent in the Constitution rather than the SUBSTANTIVE issues around checks and balances ... BTW, Cornyn is doing no less here than what he did as A.G. in Texas from whence he just arrived.

Thank you Sen. Feingold -- let freedom ring!

[bluestateguy]

10. If it becomes law, I will burn a flag

Only tinhorn dictatorships bar the desecration of their flags.

[stevedeshazer]

12. If this amendment ever passes

More flags will be burned than ever before. I will join you.

[Just Me]

20. I have never "desecrated" the American flag.

But, if a constitutional amendment to protect an "object" is passed notwithstanding the suffering of so many REAL people,...I, too, would join in burning a symbolic "thing" that has lost its meaning.

[Gore1FL]

47. It'll never pass

it is just GOP election year politicing to the bewildered base

[jmowreader]

19. Bush is a tinhorn dictator. Didn't you get the memo?

..

[Scottie72]

39. I will be right there with you....

I will bet there will be massive flag burning protest. They will have so many more people burning the flag then they do now.

[Guaranteed]

44. I will, too- because it will no longer mean anything.

The day flag desecration is illegal in America is the day I renounce my citizenship.

[searchingforlight]

11. I say, " define desecration."

BushCo has turned our flag into a butcher's apron. What could desecrate it more?

[struggle4progress]

13. Time to circulate pictures of Republicans desecrating the flag!

How about that shot of * signing a flag? Or the more recent picture of *'s daddy in his jacket with the flag lining.

I think many flags are burned by Boy Scouts. If the Republicans don't want flags burned, they should begin by changing the flag code.

[jmowreader]

21. Umm...they're trying to ban flag burning as a form of protest

What the Boy Scouts (and the VFW, the American Legion and, IIRC, the Elks and the Eagles) do is called Retirement.

There is a very long process that goes into retiring a flag. You don't just dump mineral spirits on it and throw a match on it. First, they cut the blue part (the field) away from the stripes. A lot of Boy Scout troops will cut the stars out of the field for reasons you will understand soon, and cut the stripes apart for the same reason.

After the flag is so divided, they start a fire. They sing patriotic songs and tell patriotic stories and read the history of that particular flag. "This flag flew proudly over the courthouse for 29 years. It is being retired because it is disrespectful to it and to our nation to fly it in its condition." Then each scout presents part of the flag to the cleansing flame. (If you have a lot of scouts and not many flags being retired, you cut them into many pieces so each scout can fully participate. This is also why scout troops that retire flags work so hard to collect flags to retire.)

VFW posts do it a bit differently: if they don't get the Scouts to do it, which solves two problems at once--community service and not wanting to stand there cremating flags all day--they cut the fields out of the flags they are retiring and cremate them in two pieces.

[struggle4progress]

24. Well, I'm having some trouble understanding exactly why ...

we need a Constitutional amendment making it illegal to burn a flag while the burner is in one frame-of-mind but which wouldn't make it illegal to burn it while in another frame-of-mind: if flag-burning is a major problem, why not just ban flag-burning under all circumstances and forget about frame-of-mind? :)

I'm also having trouble understanding why the Republicans didn't kick and scream with rage when * signed flags or when his father wore a jacket with a flag lining, since these seem to be obvious desecrations. :evilgrin:

[mike1963]

29. So it's not DOING it that matters, it's what you are THINKING while you do

it, right?

What execrable idiocy.
:grr:

[struggle4progress]

31. It looks that way to me.

:silly:

Of course, the states could simply made it illegal to dispose of things by burning. That would improve air quality and effectively put an end to flag burning, too, since it is content-neutral.

[jmowreader]

49. Bingo.

Note that none of these laws ban flag BURNING. They all ban flag DESECRATION, which is damaging the flag as a sign of disrespect.

Many years ago someone installed an Art Exhibit in a museum. You had to enter it to see it, and to enter it you had to walk on a flag. That's desecration too.

Bush wrote his name all over a bunch of flags; Bush will say it's not desecration because he had the utmost respect for the flag when he did it. That's bull, because there are only three things he respects: his own ass, absolute power (so long as it's in his hands) and getting reelected. Everything else is tertiary, including the American people (except the ones who haven't been born yet, naturally). Obviously it is desecration, even if Bush doesn't want to admit it.

When the Scouts or the VFW retire a flag, it is done with the utmost respect for The Flag--not that particular example, perhaps, but The Flag as concept. Which is why they conduct a religious rite when they do it.

Let me inject another problem with a flag desecration amendment: it can be used as a powerful tool to lock up People We Don't Like. Maybe the Bush Boy will decide that anyone who doesn't wear a flag pin is being disrespectful to the flag--desecrating it, in other words. If you don't want to get five years for desecration, you better get down to the local Wal-Mart and buy a flag pin--maybe four or five in case you lose yours.

[FloridaPat]

14. The States still have to ratify those amendments Congress

passes. It is not that easy to get amendments through.

[AndyTiedye]

15. Does This Amendment Cover Wrapping Your Revolting Policies in the Flag?

Seems like the Repubs have been desecrating the flag big-time ever since 9/11.

[Leprechan29]

22. This isn't the first try

This "Flag" amendment has been proposed nearly ever session, and it never makes it even to a vote usually. This one should meet the same fate in about...three...two...

[Blue_State_Elitist]

16. Wow

So it will be illegal to burn a piece of cloth???


Fuck the flag, it's just a Republican Party symbol anyway.

[slackmaster]

17. I guess the Senate has too much free time on its hands

I propose a Constitutional amendment to shorten Congressional sessions to six months.

[lazarus]

18. "Only one flag"?

Funny, I see more than one every time I go out.

Fewer and fewer these days, though....

[Khephra]

23. desecration

desecration

\Des`e*cra"tion\, n. The act of desecrating; profanation; condition of anything desecrated.

desecration

n : blasphemous behavior


blas·phe·my ( P ) Pronunciation Key (blsf-m)
n. pl. blas·phe·mies

A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.

sac·ri·lege ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skr-lj)
n.
Desecration, profanation, misuse, or theft of something sacred.

prof·a·na·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prf-nshn)
n.
The act or an instance of profaning; desecration.

---

Who gave the Gov't the authority to determine what is sacred and what is profane?

[struggle4progress]

28. How about a Constitutional Amendment ...

against bombing innocent civilians?

[PartyPooper]

30. Junior desecrates the flag every day when Pickles puts it on his lapel.

I wonder if he'll be exempt?

:eyes:

[catzies]

32. I prefer anyone wrapping in the Constitution and burning the flag

Than burning the Constitution and warpping themselves in the flag.

Khephra's comment is quite astute. ^5

[GoddessOfGuinness]

33. Does this mean Dumbyass won't be able to autograph flags

anymore?

[LiberalFighter]

35. I attended a football game in 2002...

I believe it was around the anniversary of 9/11 and they had the flag at half-staff. I had already determined that the national anthem had the perfect reason why their should not be an amendment to "protect" the flag a few years before this.

Why did Francis Scott Key write the "Star Spangled Banner?" It wasn't because the flag was brand spanking new. It wasn't because the flag was put away in a safe place whenever the weather was less than ideal. It wasn't because the flag was put away whenever there was a battle so that the bullets wouldn't leave it in tatters.

Francis Scott Key had a meaning to the song. It was based on emotion that never would had been felt under any other situation.


If I had staged the 9/11 anniversary or any other similar event that had the flag at half-staffed... the anthem would be played and as the people were singing...

Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,

Begin raising the flag to the top

Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

[tabasco]

36. Burning the flag is pure political speech.

- Exactly the type of anti-government speech the First Amendment was intended to protect.
- The repugs want to tear up the Constitution and wipe their asses on it. That's a lot worse than burning a flag.

[mmonk]

37. What about stealing the flag

as the wingnuts have done? They have taken away what the flag has stood for for so long.

[jpgray]

38. One of my few major disagreements with Dennis Kucinich

Can't believe he voted in favor of this thing.

[Sinistrous]

40. I will never understand how one honors a symbol by

violating the values it stands for.

[DaveSZ]

41. Fascists

This is their plan - to undermine our Constitution piece by piece.

[thebigidea]

42. great, now the flagsuckers will come after me! yay!

[genius]

43. Daschle better fillibuster or resign.

[Solly Mack]

45. Protect the symbol but piss away what it symbolizes?

Yeah, that makes sense...I'd laugh but for the sadness of it all

why do people ferociously embrace the symbol of freedom and liberty but barely flinch at the actual loss of freedom and liberty?

maybe that is the answer...the symbol is all that remains.

[flaminbats]

46. I always knew Betsy Ross was un-American...

"Section 8k of the Flag Code (see below) states, "The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning." We recommend that you contact your local VFW Chapter and ask them for help properly disposing of your flag. And be sure to consider providing a small donation to them for their assistance. Or you can contact your local Elks Lodge (who created the idea of Flag Day, established officially by President Truman, himself a member of the Elks) or the American Legion. Some Boy Scout and Girl Scout troupes also can provide this service.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

First stripping clothes off of human prisoners and abusing them is morally justified behavior and now flag burning is considered to be unpatriotic and illegal by Republicans.

[Gore1FL]

48. A post in a thread from 2 -3 years ago

suggeasterd burning the confederate flag. It'll piss off the right people, but they'll have less justification.