Prisoners' families jeer Iraq abuse court martial

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L19365437.htm

BAGHDAD, May 19 (Reuters) - The trials of U.S. soldiers accused of abusing Iraqi detainees have just begun, but for relatives of those in the jail where the worst abuse took place, the verdict was already in on Wednesday: They'll get off easy.

"Will they sentence them to death?" asked Hala Azzawi, mother of one of the approximately 3,000 Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib jail near Baghdad, which lies at the heart of an abuse scandal threatening President George W. Bush's political future.

"It's a kangaroo court, set up just to placate Iraqis, just so they can say 'We tried them'," she said. "I wish they would get death, it's less than they deserve."

Even as a U.S. soldier pleaded guilty to taking part in abuse of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib -- exposed in photographs that shocked the world and shredded Washington's credibility with Iraqis -- the families of Abu Ghraib's thousands of prisoners said the trials had little to do with justice.

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[Dhalgren]

1. The Iraqis are right.

These trials of the grunts have "little to do with justice." I just hope that the US public has as good eye-sight as the public of the rest of the world. This sham, itself, is an embarrassment.

[Jack Rabbit]

2. From the BBC story on the Sivits court martial

From the BBC Online
Dated Wednesday May 19 13:02 GMT (6:02 am PDT)

US soldier jailed for Iraq abuse

(cutting to the bottom)

The US is keen to show these were isolated incidents and will be dealt with swiftly, firmly and openly.
But the International Committee of the Red Cross has cast fresh doubt on the treatment of detainees.
ICRC director of operations Pierre Krahenbuhl told the BBC Panorama programme procedures at Abu Ghraib jail were still a cause of concern, despite being highlighted in a confidential February report.
The US has said that the ICRC made its concerns known directly to the US command in Baghdad last autumn and that some corrective actions were taken.

The indicated intention is to use the courts martial as a whitewash and limit the damage to "a few bad apples."

Perhaps the sort of thing that happened at Abu Ghraib only happened at Abu Ghraib. However, there is good reason to believe that the junta's policy is to circumvent the Geneva Conventions and that violations of the human rights of detainees in also happening in Guantanamo and in secret prisons in Afghanistan. These are war crimes and the responsibility goes all the way to Bush.

Those prisons should be opened to international inspections and war crimes documented.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

3. Sentence them to DEATH?? - are they nuts?

That is seriously fucked up.

[Ms. Clio]

4. We sentence murderers to death in this country, don't we?

Rapists used to hang.

The families know that their relatives have been raped and tortured and murdered, and they want justice, just like any death-penalty supporting American.


Brutal interrogation in Iraq
Five detainees' deaths probed

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~11676~2157003,00.html

[Cocoa]

5. more angry than nuts

remember, these are the families of prisoners. And remember how awful the abuse was. And if I'm not wrong, the death penalty is applied more liberally in Arab countries compared to here.

[Desperadoe]

7. death penalty is applied more liberally in Arab countries

Do they execute the mentally insane too?

[NNN0LHI]

11. The USA executes people who were children when they were arrested n/t

[saigon68]

10. Death penalty applied more liberally to menatlly ill Black men in Texas

[Tinoire]

8. It most certainly is not. They committed crimes against humanity

and should be subject to the worst punishment possible. If that's death then so be it.

I'd rather see them all lined up at the Hague personally but it would be true justice to have see them turned over to the victims of their crimes.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

9. "Crimes against humanity"

More like crimes against humans.

I am completely against the death penalty. Not a deterrent, and sometimes innocent people are executed.

That said, if it were proven that a soldier killed an inmate, execution would not be such a stretch. But if he/she just made them pile on naked, execution would be insane.

[Tinoire]

12. Stivits is an SOB who is helping the Army whitewash this scandal

Stivits is an SOB who has made a deal with the Army and promised to proclaim loud and clear that this was not systemic abuse and that no one in the chain-of-command knew.

This is what is going on here. A total white-wash.

Stivits did a hell of a lot more than make them pile on naked.

And even if that's all he had done, call me a heartless bitch, but I'd still be all for turning him and all the others involved over to their victims.

[PaDUer]

15. read my posts....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1626734&mesg_id=1627514

[Tinoire]

19. What a laundry list of names

I honestly no longer recognize this Army.

Thanks, book-marking that!

On edit: Here... No names but incidents and some "punishments":

Alleged abuses

Military investigations regarding allegations of Iraqi detainee abuse:

April 12, 2004: Member of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force abused a detainee involved in shooting death of a Marine lieutenant and sergeant. During interrogation, detainee was kicked in the rib cage, punched in kidney area and slapped in the head. Incident being investigated.

Jan. 9, 2004: FOB Rifles Base detainee died while in custody. The detainee, an escapee who had been recaptured, was shackled to the door of his cell with his hands over his head and gagged. Five minutes later, he was found dead. The death is under investigation.

Dec. 31, 2003: Military police officer used butt of M-4 rifle to strike a detainee in the face and on the back of the neck. Then the officer placed the muzzle of his M-4 rifle in the detainee's mouth and pulled trigger on the empty weapon. Officer then chambered a round and pointed the rifle at detainee, firing a round 5 or 6 feet from detainee. The incident is under investigation.

Nov. 26, 2003: At the 3rd ACR detention facility, Iraqi Gen. Abed Hamad Mowhoush, a "high-priority target," was placed inside a sleeping bag with only his feet exposed. He was rolled back and forth while being questioned. One of the interrogators sat on his chest and placed hands over his mouth. He died during the interrogation, and an autopsy confirmed evidence of blunt force trauma to the chest and legs. The interrogating officers were given general officer reprimands, prohibited from conducting further interrogations and referred for consideration of misconduct charges.

Sept. 11, 2003: A guard at the FOB Packhorse detention facility fatally shot a detainee who was throwing rocks. The soldier, who did not follow regulations, was reduced in rank and discharged from the military in lieu of trial by court-martial.

June 13, 2003: A sergeant beat a detainee while his squad leader was present. Sergeant received rank reduction and 60 days' confinement. His commanding officer - who also beat detainees - was charged with dereliction of duty, given a reprimand and fined $2,000.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~11676~2157003,00.html

[RapidCreek]

18. Yes indeed

That's what I've advocated all along. A crime was commited in their "Democracy" against their citizens and should be tried in their courts.

RC

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. Your post is a good example of why we are having a very difficult time...

...operating in the Middle East. We know nothing of the Islamic culture, religion, customs, and laws. Yet, we insist on imposing our way of thinking on them, and then want to wonder why they get so angry.

[RapidCreek]

17. Hey let's face it....

It's their country, their "Democracy" and their judicial system. Those tortured in Iraq by Americans were not soldiers...but citizens.

If a US soldier commits a crime in the civilian world at home, he is tried by BOTH the military and civilian authorities....and he serves the sentences meated out by both if convicted. As far as I'm concerned the same should occur in our new "Democracy" Iraq. Or is Iraq a "Democracy" only when it is most convenient to us?

RC

[Cocoa]

6. "we should get to try them ourselves"

makes me wonder, after June 30, could this become a reality, could troops be subject to Iraqi courts?

[othermeans]

14. US Soldiers are only subject to our laws

Powell and the rest of the clan made this clear at the Hague. I believe he said something to the effect that if we send American soldiers overseas their parents can expect them to be subject to American laws.

[RapidCreek]

16. Goes to show you the average iraqi ain't as stupid as the average

American. Must be the lack of TV over there.

RC