Colorado Bishop Warns Catholics

[salin]

Colorado Bishop Warns Catholics

(CBS/AP) Catholics who vote for politicians in favor of abortion rights, stem-cell research, euthanasia or gay marriage may not receive Communion until they recant and repent in the confessional, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Colorado Springs said.

Bishop Michael Sheridan's pronouncement was the strongest yet from a U.S. bishop in the debate over how faith should influence Catholics in this election year.

The discussion of withholding Holy Communion had previously been limited to politicians themselves.

more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/14/politics/main617519.shtml

[bluestateguy]

1. That's a threat

and if we had an Administration that respected the First Amendment they would respond by revoking the Catholic Church's tax exempt status.

[LittleApple81]

2. Well, time to remove the tax-exempt status from the Catholic Church!

This does it, for me.

[kysrsoze]

Fuck the Catholic Church. I'm so sick of their pious crap

Sorry to you Catholics out there, but if you believe the hypocritical sh*t the Vatican spews, you deserve everything you get for following such a misguided sect.

Guess it's OK to vote for a bunch of hateful people who put $ above human life and all else as long as you're not practicing birth control or living out your life as the person you are.

Again, fuck them.

[Warren Stuart]

44. Do you have to use the f-word?

We are not talking about crosstown rivals, but instead an institution that has a great impact on the lives of millions of Americans.

What do you hope to gain from such hurtful and hateful comments?

[gatlingforme]

37. I respect religious beliefs, but when the Catholic Church becomes

political I say yank the exempt status. that's pure BS

[Blayde Starrfyre]

39. This is one Bishop, it's not ex cathedra

So it's ludicrous to propose yanking the entire church's tax exempt status. That being said, a case could be made for yanking the status of this particular diocese, which would scare this idiot into shutting up.

[trogdor]

43. One bishop in Freeperland...

...who is apparently jockeying for position for higher office in the near-imminent event of JP2's demise. We must ask ourselves just how many Catholics in Colorado Springs intended to vote for Kerry in the first place, and the likelihood that Kerry would carry Colorado in any case.

OTOH, I would just love to see this bozo soundly chastised by the greater RCC. After all, last I heard, only the Pope could issue edicts like this, and he knows better.

[7th_Sephiroth]

3. we need a political force

to write into congress to pull the catholic church's tax exempt status

[salin]

4. So the parish Priest is supposed to now check voter

registration - but even that doesn't tell how the individual votes... so the parish Priest cuts a deal with Diebold to get the actual votes cast so the Priest can determine whether a parishoner is eligible for communion?

[fearnobush]

5. What about the Death Penalty and the War?

More Hypocracy. These so called Bishops are a joke, and they did nothing to stop the raping of children. What Whoredom.

[grytpype]

6. Hey Bish, go feel up an altar boy.

Not even the Holy Roman Catholic Church can save Duhbya and the Repugs this year.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Another reason

for liberal Catholics to consider leaving the Roman Catholic Church for Catholic Churches of other rites.

[jimshoes]

8. All I can think of is

maybe I don't want to belong to your club any more Bishop Sheridan. It seems your church has become a church of exclusion. You no longer speak to me or for me.

[Sparky McGruff]

9. But an illegal war, the death penalty, and pedophilia by priests are A-OK

Start a war in Iraq with lies, kill thousands of americans and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis? Okay by us! You've got our vote.

Kill prisoners in Texas, some who may have been wrongly convicted? Screw 'em! You've got our vote!

Vote in politicians who thinks its acceptable to let non-catholics live their lives by their own ethics and morals? YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!

Pedophilia in the priesthood? GO AWAY! NOTHING TO SEE HERE! WE'RE HOLIER THAN THOU!

[oblivious]

29. To be fair, they were against the war.

The Conference of Catholic Bishops in the US issued a strong anti-war resolution, Catholic papers were against the war, and the Vatican was pretty clear in its opposition to the war.

[uncertainty1999]

30. yes, but ... not this bishop!

Sheridan said some Catholics have challenged him to extend his list of positions out of step with church teaching to include the death penalty or the war with Iraq. But Sheridan said he doesn't believe those matters carry the same weight.

more:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/14/politics/main617519.shtml

(this idiot must have flunked seminary. He should have learned that God has only 10 rules, one of which is, thou shalt not kill!!!)

[oblivious]

32. I see...imagine, the slaughter of 50,000 doesn't carry the same weight.

This guy is really giving the Church a bad name.

[meow2u3]

47. Bishop Sheridan is a right-wing cafeteria Catholic

That, or a partisan Republican who's using the pulpit to peddle his political agenda. He's definitely discriminating against Democratic Catholics, effectively telling them that to vote Democratic is to commit a mortal sin....the abortion issue is an excuse.


.....his diocese ought to have its tax-exempt status revoked, not only for the politicizing of the Church, but also for his hypocrisy--cracking down on abortion but not on unjust wars of aggression.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. Catholics can easily counter this strategy at the collection plate

until the Catholic church stops intimidating voters, they should withhold funds from the baskets when they come around.

[tomreedtoon]

11. Hate to tell you this...

but most people with liberal sentiments left the Catholic Church a long time ago.

I left when the Church told my sister, who was in an abusive relationship with her first psychotic husband, that she couldn't get an annulment without spending a lot of money and going through the Church's convoluted legal system. And that she'd be better just shutting up and taking the welts and the blasts of tear gas in the face. She walked out of the confessional that day, and I followed.

Interesting note: in the "Powers" comic book, a superhero gone out of control set fire to the Vatican and burned the Pope alive, because of the Church's hypocrisy about children (sexual abuse of altar boys) and abortions (they buy 'em under the table if their priests get women pregnant).

I certainly wouldn't advocate anything like that, but it certainly shows how the Catholic Church has severely angered many of its members.

[fearnobush]

14. My wife and I were told we needed to pay $125.00 to see a marriage

counselor of the church. If we refused, we could not get married in the church. Luckily my dad, (God bless his soul) had some clout and was able to get my local parish to foot the bill. As it turns out, my wife and I are the only couple remaining from our pre-cana (spelling?) group that are still married. We no longer attend the Catholic Church on much basis anymore, prefer the Episcopal church these days.

[Hobarticus]

24. Getting married, out of the Catholic church, for just this reason.

Where I live, it's cash-and-carry with the local diocese.

[LittleApple81]

16. In Catholic countries in Latin America it is even worse. In order to

get an annulment (and the valid reasons are really weird: violence is no reason, infidelity is no reason, hunger is no reason... being married in the wrong parish is, as well as one of the partners not wanting to have children. For all the "invalid reasons" you can legally separate but NEVER, NEVER again have sex...BWAHHAHAHAHA!) you need to pay 100 times as much as you pay in the USA. And people are a lot poorer than American Catholics, so guess who are the only ones with possibility for annulment?

[H2O Man]

12. Sad, but what do you expect

from an adult who willingly wears a cone-head? Most Catholics are able to distinguish between reality and decency, and the crap that the isolated "leaders" preach. Keep in mind that many of the bishops were opposed to Kennedy, too.

[caledesi]

13. Wow, how times have changed. Catholic Church & politics for the worse.

I remember when JFK was running for president and there was so much controversy about he being Catholic. Many were afraid there would not be separation of church and state and were afraid the pope would be running things (I know, bizarre).

So now it's 2004 and it's almost the opposite of 1960. The Catholic hierarchy telling people who to vote for based on abortion, stem-cell...this is bullshit! First of all the president is not the one who can change the abortion ruling..the congress has to bring it to the table. Secondly, what happened to the separation of church and state? Oh, that's right, we have a moran (sic) for a president.

In 1960 a lot of Catholics voted for Kennedy because he was Catholic! Now, they throw the red herring issues in (abortion, stem-cell)...and THREATEN Catholics with no communion. It is disgusting and am glad I am a recovered Catholic.

As an aside, why isn't this being counteracted by the Kerry camp? Why aren't they getting Catholics together to vote for a Catholic. I am not saying this is the right reason to vote for Kerry bec of religion, but hell if the Catholic Church can do it, so can we.

I have never been so disgusted with my former religion. Even though I am certainly not a practicing Catholic, I learned a great deal being brought up Catholic, and have never had an animosity toward "the Church," mostly apathy. Now I am angry as hell that they are playing politics...the same thing we were warned about in 1960.

Go figure.

edit: usual stuff

[ngGale]

21. I am Catholic and I am disgusted about the hypocricy...

of making me literally choose between God and my Country. You are right about JFK, we the people were afraid he would force his morals on us as a country. Bush has played on the abortion issue to gain votes and I for one am not going to vote for him, communion or not.
It will be up to each Bishop in each Diocese to give their opinion.
It is totally political. I can't run to a Protestant church, I ran from one to the Catholic church. Guess this is why I'm so turned off by the Bush Armageddon theory.

Kerry could not have won either way. If he had voted in favor of Laci and Conner Law, they would have accused him of forcing his Catholic views on we the people. I saved this link since the March on DC as it really shows the hypocrisy within our government.

http://nypress.com/17/17/news&columns/signorile.cfm

The Vatican was against the war in Iraq. Bush has a audience with the Pope on June 4th. Can't wait for the 'spin' on that one. Last night Faux News, after airing the view of the Vatican on the prison abuse, called the Vatican 'unpatriotic.' Good grief! Here is a link to an article about the Pope saying Bush is wrong.

ARTICLE:
Pope expected to tell Bush he is wrong
Pope John Paul II is expected to warn President George W. Bush when the
two men meet on June 4 that his policy in Iraq is wrong and the actions
of US troops are damaging efforts to bring religions closer together, a
senior Vatican official said Thursday.


The full story can be found at:
http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/322583.htm

Kerry lives by the Beatitudes which is better than the Bush view.
It's the heart of why you cannot mix politics with religion. This election is blackmail to me and a threat to my faith.

One would find it hard to keep count of the women and children Bushco has hurt with his policies all over the world.

[caledesi]

34. Excellent post ng. My sentiments exactly. nt

[mmm]

15. You cannot take communion, but they still want your money!

The Church should refuse donations and dues from these evil-doers:
men and women who insist on supporting compassion, kindness and common sense. Their blood money is the currency of Satan!

When did the Church fall so out of touch with Christianity?

[meow2u3]

48. It isn't the Church herself--it's the people in the Church

who are abusing the power God gave them. The bishops have no right to blackmail parishoners into voting for their preferred candidates under penalty of excommunication. Who the hell are they? God didn't die and leave them in charge--or did he?


Some priests can't--or don't want to--resist the temptation of denying the sacraments to Catholics who don't think along their lines or the lines of their bishops. The urge to punish, if not consciously suppressed, can blind a person in authority to the effects of their behavior.

[Leilani]

17. The hypocrisy of the Catholic Church

never fails to amaze me.

[koopie57]

18. I am a recovering Catholic

I started going to Lutheran church but it was 15 years at least until I had the nerve to go to communion in the lutheran church. Now I no longer attend any church. I think that God is not religion. Religion is a man made control system I think and I don't see where it has anything to do with God anymore, religion pretty much screwed up God. God said to love and treat one another as you would like to be treated. The religions we see today are hardly God-like. How many people have been killed, tortured, abused due to religous wars? How many abusive marriages have stayed intact due to religion? And there is so much hate taught in the church against those who don't believe or worship the same way, vote the same way, do this, do that, jump through this hoop, give enough money to the church. Certainly some good things come from a church community, but you don't need to go to church to be a decent and caring human. The church should not judge people. What give them the right anyway?

[nolabels]

33. Drug Treatment Programs Don't Work

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1996-05/OSU-DTPD-300596.php

Drug Treatment Programs Don't Work

CORVALLIS, Ore. - Drug addiction expert John Gillis has trekked along heroin smuggling routes from Pakistan to Nigeria, watched addicts put coal tar in their ears to prolong an opium high, and seen junkies so desperate for a fix they have resorted to sniffing gasoline and insect spray.

And he has come to a simple, frightening conclusion: Drug treatment programs don't really work.

There is no magic elixir, no 12-step program that will effectively take a majority of dopers off their dope, said Gillis, a psychology professor at Oregon State University who has conducted research as a Fulbright fellow in India and Greece and as a visiting professor in Egypt, Pakistan and the U.K.

The motivation for getting clean, he points out, must come from within.

"You have to be willing to go through a lot of pain and suffering," Gillis said. "Most addicts don't want to do that. Those who really are motivated to quit often will do it on their own. Ninety percent of the Vietnam veterans who became heavy heroin users during the war quit on their own when they returned to the U.S.

"They really weren't at risk in the first place. When they got home they saw it was dangerous and it was expensive, so they just quit. End of story."

Gillis' own research in Oregon reached a similar conclusion - it isn't the physiology of drug abuse that needs to be addressed, but the psychology. Gillis and his OSU colleagues have found that treatment strategies which focus on detoxification - or eliminating the physical dependence on a drug - are beneficial only in the short term.

Eventually, the underlying causes of addiction must be addressed, Gillis said, or relapse is inevitable.
(snip)

On edit: I only posted this because I have known a few people who went 12 step and fell off of the the wagon. Knowing one self is as valuable as trying to get to know this elusive thing known as religion or god.

Recovering from anything considered an addiction leaves one open for more introspective questions that even religions have a hard time answering (especialy when considering part of the limbic system might be involved with both) Keeping rational elevated above emotional can be tough if one don't know whats occuring inside their head.

http://www.healing-arts.org/n-r-limbic.htm

[JPZenger]

19. Think for yourself - become a Protestant

I converted years ago from being a Catholic to being a Protestant. I think more people would if they fully understood the choices. Most mainstream Protestant Churches have little of the rigidity and dogma of the Catholic Church.

The question everyone really needs to ask is - what is really important to me? Is it autocratic rules? Or would you rather find spiritualism that is based in the New Testament?

If you like the ritual of the Catholic Church, try a Lutheran Church. Their church services are the closest to Catholic. However, I'd suggest checking out a few different churches and finding one that is closest to your own beliefs. Most Protestant Churches are extremely welcoming to visitors because they always need new members.

P.S. - Most Protestant Churches allow any Christian to receive communion. In comparison, Catholic Churches not only limit communion to practicing Catholics, but also ban Catholics who re-married after a divorce. Now, the bishops are trying to limit communion further based upon political beliefs. What would Jesus do?

[Barkley]

20. If Sheridan can do this, what prevents other Bishops from doing the same?

I thought that univerality was one of the unique characteristics of Catholicism.

If each Bishop is permitted to set the rules for the sacraments then the Catholic Church as we know will it end.

What about people that vote for politicians that reduce food, health and housing benefits to the 'least of these' or vote for war and spending on war? But Communion for voters who elect politicians that support capital punishment?

Gee, what does he think about missile defense and monetary policy?

[Kool Kitty]

22. I don't understand where all this is coming from.

All this outrage on the part of the church. They made a big thing here in Jersey about McGreevy being pro-choice and a Catholic and they have been yapping about not voting for pro-choice politicians. Why am I getting the feeling that this is coming straight from Rove's WH office?

[ngGale]

26. This country has 95 million Catholics, correct me if I'm wrong...

Rove would be my best bet. Just heard Donahue, the Catholic spokes person on Faux news. Even he can't get into this one, it's too complicated an issue. The lesser of two evils is a valid vote. This Bishop must be on the Rove payroll, because the Pope is against the war in Iraq and the prison scandal. He is also against dividing Christians and Muslims as Bush is building tension as the church has worked so hard to unite with Islam. I think Faux news must have had a bad attack at calling the Pope anti-American. That should shed some light on the typical Faux news Catholics. Consider though if Communion blackmail could get Bush most of those votes. ROVE

[mumon]

23. Why I am not a Catholic.

This is called the sin of "pride."

Of course, I'm a Buddhist, and it's really a manifestation of greed.

[cap]

25. time to call the IRS on Colorado Catholics...

or else leave the bishop to his own devices and let 66% of the parish leave the church.

[Tellurian]

27. This Bishop does not reflect Christ's will or teachings..

Whatever his agenda, whether it be exposure for his own crimes against the law or payola by the infestation of greed. He's wrong, dead wrong and should be ignored for his heresy.

[Barkley]

28. Even Judas Got Communion!

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him..."
-Titus 1:16.

[leesa]

31. Oh go away, you backward fantasist.

[DaveSZ]

35. This should give you some idea of the Vatican's mentality on abortion

They would rather a full grown woman die than terminate her pregnancy.


Yeah, I think the Catholic Church has lost this follower (me) as well, because what this bishop is doing makes him no better than Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.




http://www.salon.com/mwt/wire/2004/05/16/saints/index.html



Anti-abortion icon among six new saints


- - - - - - - - - - - -
Nicole Winfield



May 16, 2004 | VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope John Paul II named six new saints Sunday, including a woman who became a symbol for abortion opponents because she refused to end her pregnancy despite warnings that it could kill her.

The Vatican has long championed the case of Gianna Beretta Molla, an Italian pediatrician who died in 1962 at the age of 39 -- a week after giving birth to her fourth child. Doctors had told her it was dangerous to proceed with the pregnancy because she had a tumor in her uterus, but she insisted on carrying the baby to term.


In proclaiming her a saint, John Paul praised her "extreme sacrifice" and her simple but profound message.

"May our era rediscover, by the example of Gianna Beretta Molla, the pure, chaste and fertile beauty of conjugal love, lived as a response to the divine calling," he said.

----------------------more--------------------------------

[Blayde Starrfyre]

36. Christ was killed by theocrats

People who want faith-based government are Christkillers. Give to Caesar and all that: Jesus believed in seperation of church and state.

[Vladimir]

38. And then people wonder

why secularism and the separation of church and state are important...

[dusty64]

40. Not a word about the death penalty

or illegal wars which kill thousands of innocents. Its obvious these people are pushing an extreme right agenda and this is a perfect example of why these political organizations need to be taxed. Until they pay up like the rest of us, SHUT UP!

[saigon68]

41. Saw him on TV

He wants people to vote for Bush---the Ex-Governor who used to Mock his victims before he signed their death warrants in Texas.

This thinking Catholic Liberal is very upset after seeing this THUG'S performance on TV yesterday.

[goddess40]

42. We should put a list on their church doors

The list would include all those who should be denied Communion:
Pro-choice politicians
Voted for a politician that is pro-choice
Uses birth control
Has pre-marital sex
Has adulterous affairs
Supports unjust wars (Iraq is an unjust war according to the Pope)
Supports the death penalty

[dusty64]

45. They'll leave the last

two off their list. The hypocrisy is astounding and mind boggling, it truly is time to tax these megacorporations.

[meow2u3]

49. You left out a couple of things

Voted for politicians who support unjust war (Iraq)
Voted for politicians who support expansion of the death penalty.

[davhill]

46. Consider the source

The people who donate to the Republican cause are the same people who donate big bucks to the Church. Right now the bishops are being pressured for payback. Unfortunatly some of them have buckled under. They are not the Catholic Church. Even bishops can be corrupted by the prevailing evil.