Pope expected to tell Bush he is wrong

[struggle4progress]

Pope John Paul II is expected to warn President George W. Bush when the two men meet on June 4 that his policy in Iraq is wrong and the actions of US troops are damaging efforts to bring religions closer together, a senior Vatican official said Thursday.
Cardinal Pio Laghi said the US-led occupation force in Iraq should be replaced by "a multinational presence which is not dominated by those who wanted and fought the war".
It was not enough for a military force in Iraq not to be under US command, "it must not even give the impression that it is", he said.
Laghi was the pope's envoy to Washington last year in a fruitless attempt to persuade Bush not to invade Iraq against the wishes of the majority of the United Nations and its 15-member Security Council.
<more>
http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/322583.htm

[4_Legs_Good]

1. Sometimes I'm so proud and ashamed of being Catholic

at the same time...

david

[Beware the Beast Man]

2. Isn't that the beauty of Catholicism?

Some policies (social justice, war) are so right-on, but others, like the sex abuse scandal & preists refusing communion, make you scatch your head.

[raifield]

3. In the words of * himself...

"Who cares what you think?"

The Pope might also be a "focus group".

...or a "terrorist", come to think of it.

[emad]

4. Good counter-intelliegnce story for "JP2 pleads for more time

to extend CIA cover-up of Banco Ambrosiano scandal/Roberto Calvi murder trial in Italy, following 22 years of gagged evidence on the P2 Lodge being submitted before the judge by the UK's City of Lonfdon police".

Bush 1 gave Cardinal Marcinkus immunity from prosecution in any US court, in return for keeping quiet about those nasty paedophile sex scandals that have all but bankrupted the diocese of Boston, et al. Now the whole house of cards is collapsing, JP2 ain't gotta prayer.

[shrike]

26. Have no idea what you're talking about

Don't mean to be disrespectful -- maybe you could provide some links/resources to shed some light on your posts?

[arcos]

36. read this book...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553050737/qid=1084496879/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1__i1_xgl14/104-0955861-7635901?v=glance&s=books

[emad]

49. Here's another good book that tells it like it is:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0859780651/qid=1084537411/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/102-2729051-6032936?v=glance&s=books

Edit: from DU:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=387741

Also:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1316830

And:
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=492409

AND:
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/mar2004-daily/17-03-2004/world/w13.htm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

http://www.askmen.com/toys/special_feature_60/67c_special_feature.html

And:
For good historical background:

American Atheists link, citing the Nazi/Franco fascist connection, Peron, Falkland Islands, etc:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/vat13.htm

And FINALLY:


“The mafia did not act alone,” said Carlo Calvi, who lives in Montreal. “My father was eliminated by politicians because his position had become untenable. He was going to have to defend himself and reveal the activities of the Vatican bank.” He points to the Rome findings that the mafia’s aim in murdering Calvi was not only to punish him for his misuse of its funds, but also to prevent him trying to blackmail politicians, the clandestine P2 masonic group and the Institute for Religious Works — better known as the Vatican bank. Calvi had been sacked as chairman on June 17, 1982 after failing to account for debts to shell companies in Latin America controlled by the Vatican bank. The Vatican insisted that he pay back at least £154m. Several attempts have been made to penetrate the Vatican and determine the exact nature of its links with Calvi, but Italian and American investigators were refused permission to question Paul Marcinkus, then president of the Vatican’s bank. Calcara, who has co-operated with Sicilian investigators for the past three years, testified that a year before Calvi’s murder he travelled from Sicily to Rome to deliver two suitcases containing $6.5m to Marcinkus and an unnamed cardinal. “The mafia did not act alone,” said Carlo Calvi, who lives in Montreal. “My father was eliminated by politicians because his position had become untenable. He was going to have to defend himself and reveal the activities of the Vatican bank.” Calcara, who has co-operated with Sicilian investigators for the past three years, testified that a year before Calvi’s murder he travelled from Sicily to Rome to deliver two suitcases containing $6.5m to Marcinkus and an unnamed cardinal. Rome prosecutors are hoping that they will able to question Marcinkus, who is now 80 and takes masses in Phoenix, Arizona. But he still has the protection of a Vatican state diplomatic passport and there are fears that he may never talk.
<snip>
From:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1037246,00.html

[madrchsod]

5. i am sure bush

could give a shit what the pope says. bush sucking up to the catholics??? what the fuck are the fundies going to think of him sucking up to the pope ,after all the catholics are their enemy..

[truth_seeker]

12. Catholics vs. Fundies

both religions are supposedly Christian, I don't understand why they are enemies except that maybe they view Catholics as "liberal" and Fundies as "right wing neo-con fascists".

I say we bring the war home, (actually because that's where it all begins, right inside each persons heart - is your heart filled with understanding, love, compassion, forgiveness, or ignorance, hate, judgement, discrimanation, greed)... lets bring the war home by putting all the fundies and the catholics in a big footbal stadium like the Houston Astrodome with rubber bats and letting them beat the xxxx out of each other, rather than poor undeveloped 3rd world countries. JMO :)

[Bridget Burke]

21. You have a lot to learn.

Ever tried reading history? Or looking around you today?

The Catholic church is not as monolithic as some may think. "Fundies" are not a religion. There are quite a few fundmentalist protestant sects, but not all of them are politically active. Ever heard of the Amish?

And the Catholic church did come out against the war in Iraq. Are you for it?

[PassingFair]

47. The pope may have come out STRONGLY against the war...

but the rank and file sided with Bush. They turn their cheeks when they don't like the message.

[dryan]

27. Fundamentalists vs. Catholics (Deep South version)

Many fundamentalists do not believe that Roman Catholics are Christians. Just ask a KKK member!

[4_Legs_Good]

28. Not only deep southerners

My brother-in-law and his wife both believe that.

Wacky stuff.

david

[happynewyear]

34. you obviously know nothing about Catholicism nor the Church

so your opinion means nothing. What do you know about Catholicism? It is so easy to condemn those that you do not understand.

Long live Pope John Paul II.

[alcuno]

40. We are "enemies" because the so-called Christian right declared "war"

on Catholicism with their vicious attacks on the Holy Father and the Church. * went to the hall of fame of fundamentalism, Bob Jones University, an institution well known for it's anti-Pope, anti-Catholic rhetoric.

When the Holy Father said that he believed that Jews would go to heaven, there was a hue and cry from the "fundies" that continues to this day. They don't want to meet us on the battlefield because they are cowards who hide behind their alleged "faith."

[bobbieinok]

42. in 40s and 50s So Bapts 'knew' Catholics are not christians; Know Nothing

Party in the 19th century was extremely anti-Catholic

[happynewyear]

41. what a racist thing to say

<< lets bring the war home by putting all the fundies and the catholics in a big footbal stadium like the Houston Astrodome with rubber bats and letting them beat the xxxx out of each other, rather than poor undeveloped 3rd world countries. >>

Where do you think Mother Theresa was located? Try Calcutta. If that isn't 3rd world I do not know what is. I resent this comment as a Catholic. Thank you for offending me.

[SharonAnn]

45. The Fundies here don't think Catholics are Christian. They

think Catholics are the anti-Christ religion.

[lagniappe]

48. Many Fundamentalists have nothing but contempt for Catholics.

Do a search on google for 'pope antichrist'. This should give you a little more insight into the issue.

Also, there are thousands of Christian sects. Each thinks they have the answer, and everyone else can literally go to hell.

[MotorCityMan]

19. but *'s "role model judge" Scalia

who got *'s ass in the oval office in the first place WILL care, along with the other Opus Dei members.

[demnan]

6. Well since Bush doesn't listen to the Methodist Church

who are against the war, why would he listen to the Pope?

[Poiuyt]

7. Who's God Is Right?

The Pope's or Bush's?

[Say_What]

8. EXPECTED?? I should f*ck'n hope so, DUH

If I remember correctly the pope also called BoyKing and told him that starting the war would be immoral--or maybe he sent his emmisary. Someone else might remember :-)

[GreenArrow]

20. IIRC the Pope told him if he went to war

he would be going without God.

[truth_seeker]

9. Not far enough, or soon enough

Now all he needs to do is give John Kerry communion and then I will begin to have some respect for the Catholic church again!

[Joanne98]

10. Bush won't care. He is God according to him. His will must be done.

But a big thanks to the Pope for trying anyway.

[killbotfactory]

11. Bush ain't gonna take orders from no queer pope!

He was chosen by god to slay the satanic hordes, he was!

[kskiska]

13. I'm sure that Karen Hughes will be at *'s side

saying, "Well, we disagree."

[Tellurian]

14. Being publically rebuked by the Pope will put a chink in Bush's armor..

[gratuitous]

17. A public rebuke?

Nah, Stupidhead will go in with His Holiness (assign the labels as you please), they'll meet privately, have a couple of pictures snapped, and both will come out raving about what a productive meeting it was, what high regard each of them has for the other, and in two days nobody will even remember that it happened. Stupidhead will go on doing what he always does, and His Holiness will go on doing what he always does. Nothing will change, and nobody will be discomfited.

Compare and contrast to Jesus and his interaction with the moneychangers in the temple, or his relations with the religious authorities. Extra credit if you don't use the word "motherfucker."

[xultar]

15. What is the Pope gonna know about what God said, God was talkin

to GWB. There was no call waiting and no 3-Way. I mean think about it. IF God is talking to GWB he isn't talking to the Pope. Furthermore, GWBs Gawd is the only Gawd. The Pope is lying he didn't talk to God only GWB has the hotline to the pearly gates!

[PfcHammer]

16. the irony. Pope speaks 10? languages, has a knowledge of

history, religion, politics. * is a walking vegetable.
Pope oughta open a can 'o whip ass on Shrub.

[crossroads]

43. Ahhh but... can the Pope understand Doulbyaspeak?

}(

[Maine-i-acs]

18. Add the Pope to the list of leaders preferring Kerry ...

Though he'd probably never endorce the divorced Catholic Kerry in public, you have to know that the Pope wants Shrub out of there as badly as the rest of us do.

[IronLionZion]

30. not divorced

his marriage was annulled so its OK. The only problem is that he's pro-choice. That's why some American Bishops have refused him communion. The Pope had nothing to do with it; he doesn't refuse to anyone.

[peterh]

22. It should be a very arctic meeting judging from……

These early responses….


Congressman, Catholic group blast Vatican over Iraq comments

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--vatican-prisonera0513may13,0,7554149.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

WASHINGTON -- Catholic lawmaker Peter King ripped church leaders as hypocrites Thursday for the Vatican's foreign minister claim that the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal is worse for America than the Sept. 11 attacks.

"If there's anyone in the world who has no right to speak on sexual abuse, it's the Vatican," said Rep. King, an anti-abortion Republican. "This is the height of hypocrisy."

"Whatever the United States has done to prisoners in Iraq is nothing compared to what priests and nuns did to Catholic kids for decades while the Catholic hierarchy covered it up," King said.

"Think of the thousands of kids in the U.S. and Ireland who were abused by priests and nuns _ you wonder where the Vatican's moral compass is."


William Donohue, president of the Catholic League, said the archbishop's statements show anti-American sentiment within the Vatican.

[Tempest]

23. Pope John Paul II Worries Bush is the Anti-Christ

Pope John Paul II Worries Bush is the Anti-Christ

Wayne Madsen writes, "Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to
Christian beliefs, and his constant references to 'evil doers,' in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations - the anti-Christ. People close to the Pope claim that amid these concerns, the Pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations... According to journalists close to the Vatican, the Pope and his closest advisers are also concerned that the ultimate acts of evil - the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon - were known in advance by senior Bush administration officials. By permitting the attacks to take their course, there is a perception within the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy that a coup d'etat was implemented, one that gave Bush and his leadership near-dictatorial powers to carry out their agenda. "

http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html

[BattyDem]

24. So ...

does this mean that any Catholic who publicly supports Bush will be denied communion? :evilgrin:

[74dodgedart]

25. Bush expected to tell God to "Bring it on"

[dryan]

29. To make matters worse....

Jeb Bush is a Roman Catholic.

[Minstrel Boy]

31. Bush expected to tell Pope he's going to Hell.

Well, the Pope's Catholic, ain't he?

[othermeans]

32. The Pope forgave the Muslim man who tried to kill him

I guess that would be too much to ask of a Christian country like Amerika.

[happynewyear]

33. did anyone read the article?

The referenced article states the following:

<< Laghi said Bush had been very anxious to see the pope and had changed his schedule to make the meeting possible, but said he did not think the president wanted to make political capital out of it before the election due to take place in November. >>

Why would Bush suddenly be anxious to meet with Pope John Paul II all of a sudden, especially after he told Bush that if he went to Iraq he was going without God?

[dflprincess]

37. Seeking absolution?

n/t

[happynewyear]

39. my thought is this

Bush knows the Pope told him that if he were to go to Iraq, he would go without God.

Now Bush sees the Pope is right. Maybe he figures if he confesses to it and he says a few thousand Hail Marys and a million Our Fathers, he will be forgiven for his great sin.

Good luck Bush. You are out of luck as God is not on your side as you have had to learn the hard way. Confession will not work for you because you are not a member of the Catholic Church. Try Catechism and proceed forth. :evilgrin:

I'll be curious to find out what happens as I plan to closely follow this scenario.

[LibDemAlways]

35. I just hope that the minute the chimp

walks in, the Pope blindsides him with an exorcism.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[yellowcanine]

44. The Pope must be on the side of the terra-ists and hate freedom.

Evangelicals like Bush never could trust those Papists.

[Hand]

46. Wrong? How about...

"My son, you are wrong. You are also pond scum. So is your entire administration and your family for the past six generations. Now go and sin no more. Oh hell, just go; you're making me puke right here."

:mad: :nuke:

[struggle4progress]

50. How about ...

"Given your warmongering lack of respect for life, and your unprovoked murder of thousands of innocent people, we're gonna deny communion to anybody who votes for you."

[Lou_C]

51. How many Hail Mary's will he give *?

LOL