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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:02 AM
Original message
AP: Nader Gains Endorsement of Reform Party
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20644-2004May12.html

By SAM HANANEL
The Associated Press
Wednesday, May 12, 2004; 11:43 AM

WASHINGTON - Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader has been endorsed by the national Reform Party, giving him ballot access in seven states, including Florida and Michigan, party leaders announced Wednesday.

Nader spokesman Kevin Zeese said Nader welcomes the support but plans to continue running as an independent. He said Nader would decide on a case-by-case basis whether to accept the ballot lines in each state.

"This shows that Nader can garner support from across the political spectrum, including conservatives who supported Bush in 2000," Zeese said. "The naysayers who said Nader could only get liberal votes are being proven wrong. Conservatives are upset with Bush and looking for an alternative."

<>Other states in which the Reform Party has already secured ballot access for its nominee include Colorado, Kansas, Mississippi, Montana and South Carolina. Nader is not yet on the ballot in any state.

more...
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks Nader.. 4 more years of Bush.. how utterly fucked up! N/T
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm convinced that Nader wants to harm the Democratic Party
What else could his agenda be? He HAS to know that he is helping bush get re-elected.
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well...
...certain people harping on Kerry did this and Kerry didn't do that and Kerry's wussing out and Kerry's selling out and so and so's trying to buy Kerry etc. isn't helping either.

Fortunately, the Reform Party has been seriously weakened (I thought it was dead) by one Pat Buchanan last go-around. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The only thing that the Reform Party has to offer
is the line on the ballot.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. That's what he *said* he wants to do.
For some time now, Nader has made it perfectly clear that his campaign isn't about trying to pull the Democrats back to the left. Rather, his strategy is the Leninist one of “heightening the contradictions”. It's not just that Nader is willing to take a chance of being personally responsible for electing Bush. It's that he's actively trying to elect Bush because he thinks that social conditions in American need to get worse before they can better.

Nader often makes this “the worse, the better” point on the stump in relation to Republicans and the environment. He says that the Reagan-era interior secretary James Watt was useful because he was a “provocateur” for change, noting that Watt spurred a massive boost in the Sierra Club's membership. More recently, Nader applied the same logic to Bush himself. Here's the Los Angeles Times' account of a speech Nader gave at Chapman University in Orange, California, last week: “After lambasting Gore as part of a do-nothing Clinton administration, Nader said, 'If it were a choice between a provocateur and an anaesthetiser, I'd rather have a provocateur. It would mobilise us.'

Lest this remark be considered an aberration, Nader has said similar things before. “When {the Democrats} lose, they say it's because they are not appealing to the Republican voters,” Nader told an audience in Madison, Wisconsin, a few months ago, according to a story in the Nation. “We want them to say they lost because a progressive movement took away votes.”

That might make it sound like Nader's goal is to defeat Gore in order to shift the Democratic party to the left. But in a more recent interview with David Moberg in the socialist paper In These Times, Nader made it clear that his real mission is to destroy and then replace the Democratic party altogether. According to Moberg, Nader talked “about leading the Greens into a 'death struggle' with the Democratic party to determine which will be the majority party”. Nader further and shockingly explained that he hopes in the future to run Green party candidates around the country, including against such progressive Democrats as Senator Paul Wellstone of Minnesota, Senator Russell Feingold of Wisconsin, and Representative Henry Waxman of California. “I hate to use military analogies,” Nader said, “but this is war on the two parties.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,393674,00.html

Last Thursday morning CNN showed Nader voters ecstatic and unapologetic about their part in the election mess. “I'm a part of history,” burbled one woman.

Along with that woman CNN showed another Naderite who shrugged off the prospect of a Bush presidency with the following: “I believe things have to get worse before they get better.”

That seems to me to adequately sum up the belief of Ellen Willis who, in a Salon piece supporting Nader last week, wrote: “More and more I am coming to the conviction that Roe vs. Wade, in the guise of a great victory, has been in some respects a disaster for feminism. We might be better off today if it had never happened, and we had had to continue a state-by-state political fight. Roe vs. Wade resulted in a lot of women declaring victory and going home.”
http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/15/nader/

When asked if someone put a gun to his head and told him to vote for either Gore or Bush, which he would choose, Nader answered without hesitation: “Bush.”
“If you want the parties to diverge from one another, have Bush win.” - Nader
http://www.outsidemag.com/magazine/200008/200008camp_nader1.html

The only prominent Democrat who Nader seems to believe offers the party any chance for redemption is Russ Feingold, the maverick senator from Wisconsin who cast a lonely vote against the Bush Administration's antiterrorism legislation. Feingold is a rare Democrat who consistently says things like, “Ralph Nader is talking about issues Democrats should be talking about.” But the mutual admiration goes only so far. Nader rejects the idea of backing a Feingold run for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination. “I'll say a lot of good things about him, but we're not trying to build the same party,” he says.

Nader admits he experiences “lots” of frustration with the Greens. He warns that the party is not running enough candidates to achieve critical mass at election time, and he says it must do so--even where that means challenging relatively liberal Democrats.

Does Nader worry, even just a little bit, that another candidacy might divide progressives and produce another Bush presidency? “Look, I'd rather be engaged in the nonpartisan work of building a civil society. For me, there has been a gradual commitment to getting involved in the electoral process, and I still cling to this civic, nonpartisan vision of how to do things,” Nader says. “But if you do an acute analysis of why things don't change in this country, you come back to what has happened to the Democratic Party. When I look at how the Democrats have responded to Enron so far, it seems to me that we all have a responsibility to try to jolt them into an understanding of what is at stake. If Democrats respond effectively, there will not be much point to me or anyone else challenging them. But if they do not, something has to give. People realize that. People know what the Enron scandal means. This is a test. Are Democrats capable of addressing massive corporate crimes effectively? If Democrats cannot, if they are in such a routinized rut that they are incapable of responding, then how could anyone make a case that they should be given deference at the ballot box?”
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020225&s=nichols

Regarding Senators Russ Feingold (D-WI) and Paul Wellstone (D-MN), Nader said that he is willing to sacrifice them because “that's the price they're going to have to bear for letting their party go astray.”
In an interview with In the Times, 10-30-2000

In a recent Time magazine interview, when asked if he felt any regret about the 2000 election, Nader responded, “No, because it could have been worse. You could have had a Republican Congress with Gore and Lieberman.” -- Time magazine, 8-05-02

“Let's see what really happens. Ashcroft is going to be a prisoner of bureaucracy.” -- Common Dreams 4-03-2001

“I'm just amazed that people think I should be concerned about this stuff. It's absolutely amazing. Not a minute's sleep do I lose, about something like this - because I feel sorry for them. It's just so foolish, the way they have been behaving. Why should I worry?” -- Common Dreams 4-03-2001
http://www.damnedbigdifference.org/quotes

How the Great Crusader used the Green Party to get his revenge
Ralph Nader, Suicide Bomber

Later I was introduced to Nader's closest adviser, his handsome, piercingly intelligent 30-year-old nephew, Tarek Milleron. Although Milleron argued that environmentalists and other activists would find fundraising easier under Bush, he acknowledged that a Bush presidency would be worse for poor and working-class people, for blacks, for most Americans. As Moore had, he claimed that Nader's campaign would encourage Web-based vote-swapping between progressives in safe and contested states. But when I suggested that Nader could gain substantial influence in a Democratic administration by focusing his campaign on the 40 safe states and encouraging his supporters elsewhere to vote Gore, Milleron leaned coolly toward me with extra steel in his voice and body. He did not disagree. He simply said, "We're not going to do that."

"Why not?" I said.

With just a flicker of smile, he answered, "Because we want to punish the Democrats, we want to hurt them, wound them."

There was a long silence and the conversation was over.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0418/levine.php

Contrast his statements above with some information on the two pre-Nazi Germany liberal parties:
In 1930 the parliamentary coalition that governed Germany fell apart, and new elections were held. The biggest winner in these elections was Adolf Hitler's National Socialist Party. From twelve seats in parliament they increased their seats to 107, becoming Germany's second largest political party. The largest party was still the Social Democrats, and this party won 143 seats and 24.5 percent of the vote. Communist Party candidates won 13.1 percent of the vote (roughly 50 times better than the U.S. Communist Party did in the 1932 elections), and together the Social Democrats and the Communists were large enough to claim the right to make a government. But Communists and the Social Democrats remained hostile toward one another. The Comintern at this time was opposed to Communists working with reformers, and the Communists believed that a collapse of parliamentary government would hasten the revolutionary crisis that would propel them to power.
http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch16.htm
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. One of the most enlightening Nader posts I've ever read!
Thanks w4rma! I'm bookmarking this for future reference for anyone who thinks Nader is out to do some good. Things must get worse before they get better my ass! I'm sure a lot of people in the Weimar Republic shared the same Naderite sentiments. This may be the last Presidential election we have and Nader wants to flush this country down the toilet. Fuck that traitor!
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Nader is a stupid asshole.
That's all I have to say.
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. because he can get a big result with 2% of vote?
He can only play the system so well because its such an evenly divided 2 party system.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Best Nader post ever. He is using the poor as pawns in his war.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. and women, and the environment, and workers
and everybody else he claims to be fighting for

Bastard
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Well, duh, read his book.
Nader wants to harm the Democratic Party because the Democratic Party sucks, frankly.

They've sold out to corporate interests. They are no longer the party of the individual or the laborer. They are now the less ugly of the corporate sellouts.

I absolutely agree with Ralph Nader 100% on his view of the Democratic Party. I just differ from his view on how to fix it. He doesn't think it can be fixed (though he would've supported Kucinich or Dean and not run if they'd won the nomination).
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I'd agree with you about Nader..
..but I can't get his expensive, espensive suits.. his investment portfolio, and his donations from the GOP out of my mind. Sorreeeee.. I think he paid his way onto that ticket. He's not more progressive than Al Sharpton... they both know how to milk the conservatives to damage the Democrats.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Hey, if the Reform Party had won in 1992, we wouldn't have NAFTA.
Personally, if there is a third party that comes anywhere near what the Reform Party pulled in 92, I'd be damned tempted to vote for them.

Ross Perot was 10 years ahead of his time. That giant sucking sound of jobs fleeing the US is only just now coming true. And a Democrat made it happen.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Typical Naderite lunacy
if the Reform Party had won in 1992, we wouldn't have NAFTA

And if the Nazi Party won in 1992, we wouldn't have NAFTA either
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Typical DLC justification.
We aren't as bad as Republicans. Hooray.

Face facts. Perot ran almost wholly on the 'giant sucking sound of jobs moving to Mexico', anti-NAFTA platform.

He was opposed by the two kindred, pro-NAFTA spirits: Bush Sr and Clinton.

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nodehopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. of course he does. He has said as much.
Look at the article in last week's Village Voice cited in one of the posts below. It's called "Ralph Nader: Suicide Bomber"
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. That's Exactly What they Want
Why else would they be willing to tip the balance in favor of the present Asshole. It's really simple actually. Do they want Bush to win or what? Ideology doesn't mean shit, just action.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Nader only cares about Nader
Edited on Wed May-12-04 11:47 AM by The Zanti Regent
Nader turned my Jon into a quadraplegic.

Your son or daughter is next!
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SeattleDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. spokesman Zeese must be a buffoon
Edited on Wed May-12-04 12:12 PM by SeattleDem
No, Zeese, this does NOT show that conservatives want an alternative to Bush or that they are unhappy with him.

This shows that conservatives want to divide the liberal/progressive vote, thus ensuring a Bush win.

Remember, a great bumper sticker for 2004 is:

"Bush/Nader 2004"
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nodehopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Divide and conquer. It worked for an Empire in the past.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. How shocking that a right wing party would support Nader!
Edited on Wed May-12-04 01:14 PM by QC
I'm stunned, I tell you! Stunned! :eyes:
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nodehopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. FUCK!!! what do you want to bet he'll jump on the FL ballot?
I am having very bad deja-vou.
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. With this endorcement, he can be on the FL ballot - - MI & WI as well
He could also be on the ballots in Colorado, Kansas, Mississippi, Montana & So. Carolina.

They probably won't matter, but his being on the ballot in Florida, Michigan and Wisconsin could swing those states - - and potentially the election - - to Smirk.

Last I read he's gathering signatures to get on the Oregon ballot. I don't know what other states he's trying for.
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nodehopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. He's suing to get on the ballot in TX as well.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. kick
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ralphie is all about Ralphie.
The Dis-Administration that he helped into power is knocking itself out to undo all the progressive advances he himself helped to establish. I-ro-nee.
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ursacorwin Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. back before i used the net all the time
i used to subscibe to a couple of political journals. i remember reading a story about Pat B's takeover of the Reform party- a party i seriously researched and thought about joining before he was their man.

basically, the jist of what i read said that Pat knew that his 'nomination' was a big joke. what had happened was that the original group of Reform party members were pushed out in the spin up to his nomination, and a bunch of newbies rallying around Pat trashed all the work that the old Perot and Ventura supporters had built up to make Reform a real choice. it smacked of all the typical rethug dirty trick playing we talk about today. one line i distinctly remember was that as he was entering the hall to give his acceptance speech, the reporter noted that Pat had a silly look on his face, as if to say, "i know this is all a big joke."

reform after perot was for a very short time a real option, and whatever you want to say about ventura he sure did scare both major parties for 5 minutes or so. one thing is clear to me though; when it comes to real threats to our current two-party system, one can be sure the dems and rethugs will unite to see it obliterated. in the case of the reform party, the results were very clear.
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Pacifica ran an audio tape of the Reform convention at the time
And it sounded like a bar room brawl.

I said at the time - - and I still believe - - that you're right. Pat was a plant by the wingnut GOPers who believed that without Perot, Clinton never would have been elected in 1992. Perot got around 8% of the vote in 1996. If the Reform party had been left to its own devices, they probably would not have gotten that much in 2000 - - but we all saw how even 2% of the vote can swing a close election. A Reform candidate who worked for conservative votes could have siphoned off enough votes from Smirk to swing one or more states to Gore.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. If he can't get on the ballot

can't he be a write in candidate on the ballot in all the states.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. Right wingers put Ralph Nader on ballot in Florida
Edited on Wed May-12-04 04:12 PM by Democat
If anyone here still supports Nader, you are beyond hope.

This guy has no purpose in this election other than to undermine the left.

He is a tool of the right wing, that is all.
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
30. From the Hill: Nader thinks he'll be on the ballot in at least 45 states
http://www.thehill.com/campaign/051304_nader.aspx

Ralph Nader expects to be on the ballot in at least 45 states, including all presidential battleground states, after winning the Reform Party’s endorsement this week.

If Nader succeeds in getting the required signatures for 45 states and the District of Columbia, he will be an eligible presidential candidate in two more states than he was in 2000 as the Green Party’s nominee.

(snip)

With Tuesday night’s Reform Party endorsement, Nader may have an easier time getting ballot access in battleground states. The endorsement ensures Nader ballot access in the battleground states of Michigan and Florida, as well as five other states.

Several other battleground states have lax ballot-access laws, meaning that Nader would need only to pay a $500 fee or collect a small number of signatures. Louisiana, for example, requires a fee, and signature requirements are low in Tennessee (25), Arkansas (1,000), Iowa (1,500) and Wisconsin (2,000).

The campaign says the most difficult battleground state will be Pennsylvania, which requires 25,697 signatures. Other battleground states with high signature requirements include New Mexico (14,500), Oregon (14,500) and West Virginia (13,000).

Zeese said the Reform Party endorsement would help Nader win ballot access and demonstrate that he "has appeal across the political spectrum."

More...
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. To Nader:
YOU ARE SUCH A BUSH BOOTLICKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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