Beheading not linked to Iraq prison scandal: White House

[maddezmom]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The White House rejected any link between the abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison and the "brutal, barbaric" beheading of US citizen Nick Berg.


A day after Berg's blood-curdling slaying by masked assailants was broadcast on an Internet site, spokesman Scott McClellan rejected their claim that they were avenging the mistreatment at the facility near Baghdad.


"Terrorists are going to seek any excuse, and try to change, their excuses to try to justify murder, destruction and chaos," he said, stressing that it was important to "separate the two" issues.

~snip~


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040512/ts_afp/iraq_us_beheading_whouse&cid=1503&ncid=1480


McClellan, rejecting the claims...that's rich. :eyes:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Yes, consequences are for THEM not US

[Tellurian]

28. Whatever it is, it's all Bush's fault!

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Through the looking glass (cue Twilight Zone theme)

Please take my poll:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1584901&mesg_id=1584901

[Loonman]

3. The spin

Ahhhh, the spin.


They know they're screwed.

Berg's mom had to file a brief with the Feds who were holding him, now that get's denied, too.

[DenverDem]

4. The two are not linked

except for the very real possibility that both actions were performed by the same black ops.

[BlueEyedSon]

5. Good news, we can release all the other torture evidence

since there will be no "linked" retribution.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

11. excellent point

n/t

[davidinalameda]

6. wonder how long the spinmeisters took to come up with this one

No, nothing Bushie does to the Iraqis is going to affect any Americans.

Trust him.

Does anyone else think he has a future in selling used cars

[Claire Beth]

7. If the White House says it, it must be true! NOT!!!! n/t

[Shadder]

8. Well, if they say it's not linked....

Then it must be. It's not like they would tell the truth or anything....

[fertilizeonarbusto]

9. Thank you for continuing your lies

and further destroying your credibility, since any idiot can tell they clearly are-hell, Berg's murderers even said so. Keep up the spinning and the turning of yourselves into the world's sickest laughingstock.

[Fovea]

10. What a cosmically stupid response

Just what I expected from the White House.

[PurityOfEssence]

43. Well put

But I've got to say I didn't expect this. I didn't think that even they would attempt to dismiss the obvious.

It doesn't really matter whether it caused it, it gave them the excuse to do it, and that in itself is a cause. Now we will be treated to more and more of the dark side of our national character.

[soleft]

12. If there's no link then there's no reason not to disclose abuse photos

since the killers are going to kill anyway.

[Bog Frog]

13. No. The murderers are just upset that THEIR guy didn't win Survivor.

[PDittie]

14. I agree; prison torture did not beget Berg's killing

and Daily Kos has the take:

"So what does the Berg murder tell us? That the prison torture scandal led to the killing? Not even close. Terrorists (and al-Zarqawi is undoubtedly one) don't need such excuses to do their dirty work.

The lesson is that not finishing the job in Afghanistan and invading Iraq with no good rationale gave Al Qaida and similar groups time to catch their breath, reorganize, and direct their efforts against a conveniently near target -- Iraq. This is the neocon "flypaper" theory in all its glory. It's working. The neocons WANTED it this way.

And they got it. Congratulations.

And in the process, the killing of thousands of innocent men, women and children by errant American bombs, artillery shells, mortars, and bullets have swelled the recruiting offices of every militia and terrorist organization in the Mideast, in and out of Iraq. Congrats with that as well. You can't have flypaper if you don't have an enemy shooting at you. So we energized our existing enemies and gave rise to new ones who didn't seem to understand that "collateral damage" is acceptable in war.

And the abuse of Iraqi prisoners -- up to 90 percent of which could be innocent according to the Red Cross -- just added fuel to the fire.

So no, the prison abuse didn't cause Berg's horrific murder. Bush's (inept) War, in all its glory, did. The Neocon agenda, in all its folly, did. The war cheerleaders now trying to use this for propaganda purposes, in all their idiocy, did.

Congrats. Your war spirals ever out of control. Good luck trying to wash the blood out of your hands."

[Nadienne]

40. "Your war spirals ever out of control" -

I think that's part of the plan.

The longer we stay involved, the more money that the Bushies can give to their friends under the pretext of "war expenses".

[Jacobin]

15. "This is not revenge for the torture, so stop saying that"

The White House has so decreed, and thus, the world stops and changes course to accomodate said decree.

Delusions of grandeur.

These guys are further and further disconnected from realityby the day

[Lorien]

16. Pot. meet kettle

This is all so tragic because NONE OF IT HAD TO HAPPEN!

[sniffa]

17. change a few words

"bushies are going to seek any excuse, and try to change, their excuses to try to invade Iraq, justify murder, destruction and chaos," he said, stressing that it was important to "separate the two" issues."

and voiLa! spanky comes cLean about his masters.

[sundancekid]

25. I agree with you, sniffa. Funny, how those words (and concepts)

become so validly interchangeable ... extremism is extremism is extremism, and its use sits on the same point in a continuum.

[wryter2000]

18. Yeah, right

And the persence of aphids in my garden has nothing to do with the presence of roses. :wtf:

[Bialy]

19. Al-Queda didn't need provocation for 9-11. Why would they need it now?

The prisoner abuse thing is a handy excuse, though.

[David__77]

20. The provocation was US troops in Saudi Arabia.

At least that's what the Queda itself said. It was pretty clear actually.

[DenverDem]

26. al CIAda needed a "Pearl Harbor" on 9/11

and we got it.

[Jacobin]

30. Yeah. They just did it for sport

No reason at all.

Arabs aren't pissed at the U.S. because of foreign policy, so stop saying that.

:-)

[BillZBubb]

21. These guys can't help themselves, they'll lie about anything.

Hamill, the KBR employee who escaped from his kidnappers said in an interview that immediately after the torture pictures became known, his treatment markedly worsened. The kidnappers were very angry.

He also said he expected things to get much worse for all other captives. He was right on the money and obviously he has a clue--something that can't be said of Snotty and BushCo.

[David__77]

22. I'm glad they're saying this.

It's better than trying to spin it as an excuse not to be transparent about the US torture.

[Tinoire]

23. Well... If it comes from the White House, it must be true!

:eyes:

That indecent vermin just doesn't know when to HUSH!

[thecrow]

24. Er.....?

Haven't the Iraqis known about prisoner abuse (firsthand)since...last summer?
I'm surprised that al-Queda's "revenge" killing waited so long.
Maybe they were waiting for the scandal to be revealed in the US press.
At any rate, we all need to stop the horrible back and forth "hit you hit me" mentality the has encompassed this planet.
The thing is, I don't know HOW it will ever stop.
It's been going on forever.
We need peace !!!!!!

[Just Me]

31. Excellent point. If it was revenge, should've been done long ago. n/t

[suegeo]

37. Well the iraqis knew for some time

However, not all Iraqis are al Queda.

I imagine it took al queda some time to infiltrate the country and set up shop.

[enki23]

46. they didn't see the pictures until recently

just like we didn't see them. rumors aren't as powerful as images. they didn't "know" then in the sense that they do now.

but this is all bullshit anyway. a red herring. there were plenty of people who already felt justified in killing americans. this much is beyond doubt. that there are now more of them, and that the intensity of their feelings about it have probably increased in response to these things is also beyond doubt.

what a stupid god damned argument this all is.

note to my fellow americans: it's not an either/or problem, you fucking imbeciles.

[dansolo]

27. Then they shouldn't have spun it that way

The RW talking points all centered around how the media was at fault because they showed the abuse photographs. Rumsfeld also repeatedly criticized the release of the photographs to the media. I find it strange that they are backing off of that reasoning so quickly.

[powergirl]

29. I DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF THEIR CRAP

They lied about weapons of mass destruction, covered up the prison atrocities, and out CIA agents. I've never seen a president who is so full of SHIT. I am absolutely devastated by this young man's execution. How dare the WH offer another chickenshit excuse for this atrocity. Vote his ass out of office before any more Americans are killed. :scared:

[damnraddem]

32. The WH is not with the RW spin:

the beheading is supposed to be blamed on the release of the prison photos, so is indirectly linked to the 'abuse.'

[killbotfactory]

33. I agree, now release the fucking photos.

And video.

Then we can compare and contrast atrocities and see who winds up on top.

[Ganja Ninja]

34. "Terrorists are going to seek any excuse, ...

"Terrorists are going to seek any excuse, and try to change, their excuses to try to justify murder, destruction and chaos,"

And when they can't find an excuse they will try to change the subject.

[Failure]

35. that's not what Inhofe thinks, I'm sure....nt

[opihimoimoi]

36. The History of this Administration clearly indicates Bush should

go on Vacation till Jan of next year when he hands over power to a real Leader, Kerry.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[RememberWellstone]

39. I am sick to my stomach.

I am almost to the point of puking...an American was just murdered and I am sick. The hell with all this argueing...jesus christ.

[maddezmom]

47. I'd imagine his parents are sick to their stomachs, too

:eyes:

And they are looking for answers to why their son was murdered in cold blood.

[boobooday]

41. Seek any excuse?

Try to change their excuse????

My my my.



http://www.wgoeshome.com

[dicknbush]

42. What about this...

It was Chalabis goons who did the Berg beheading. It is in their interest to deflect the current US Army torture story with something much more gruesom. Remember he is the one who said It doesn't matter that we lied about WMD we got what we wanted.

[enki23]

44. so terrorists kill because it is their nature to kill

what they (the bush administration) are saying is this:

terrorists don't have reasons. they kill because it is their essential nature. they terrorize because they *are* terrorists. they *are* terrorists because they terrorize. this is a perfect, unbreakable circle.

if this is true:

---terrorism is genetic, or transmissible through channels other than social factors (because those social factors are known, generally, as "reasons." note that the word "reason" does not automatically imply a "justified" reason.)

---there is no way to increase, or decrease terrorism other than removing terrorists from the population. no actions taken by any nation have ever resulted in the increase, or decrease of terrorism. all such correlations must be due to faulty analysis, or in any case do not imply any degree of causation. the "reasons" given by the terrorists themselves are simply delusions, justifications for them to indulge in their organic terrorism urges.

---terrorism can't be fought by "spreading democracy." it can't be fought by propaganda. there is no vaccination, no cure. it can only be fought by complete quarantine. we must kill or incarcerate all terrorists. once we accomplish this, there will be no more terrorism (or, at least, a lower base-rate of spontaneous occurrence.)

---note, however, that it would be consistent with this theory of terrorism to assume that a very high proportion, if not all cases of "terrorism" arise spontaneously, making a quarantine largely (if not completely) ineffective in the long term.

---in order to kill or incarcerate all terrorists, we need a highly accurate method of assessment. we need a foolproof terrorism assay. note also that it is very unlikely that willingness to recite the pledge of allegiance would make for a very reliable assay. "under god" included--especially since so many of them are devout believers in at least one god.

[TryingToWarnYou]

45. Well, the WH is wrong...

From the murderers own mouths:

One of the masked men read a statement saying the killing was revenge against abuse and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners carried out by US guards at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison.

"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the US administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," the statement said.

"So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins … slaughtered in this way," the men said.

The video showed the five men shouting "God is greatest" as one of them cut off 26-year-old Berg's head, drowning his screams.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C6F93CE0-8FCB-425E-BD40-672B38CF68B1.htm

Somebody please tell this administration that they really need to learn to lie better. Its getting embarassing now.

[truthisfreedom]

48. separating the two issues probably means separating our two cultures, once

and for all. i guess scott thinks deep-down we ought to be out of there. i'm inclined to agree, after all of this.

[RobinA]

49. Well...

there could be PLENTY going on that we don't know about that this killing could be in retaliation for. Maybe the guy was a spy. Maybe they THOUGHT he was a spy. Maybe we thought he was a spy. Maybe they thought he was an Israeli. Things are getting so ludicrous over there, I think it's impossible to find rational cause and effect relationships to what is going on.

[symbolman]

50. Oh, that is so rich

NOW the excuse for the war crimes coverup of the photos by OUR GOVT is the Berg Beheading..

oh, Berg by the way was in COMMUNICATIONS.. I'm willing to bet he KNEW something.

Always remember...