Focus shifts to jail abuse of women

[not systems]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1214698,00.html

Luke Harding in Baghdad
Wednesday May 12, 2004
The Guardian

For Huda Shaker, the humiliation began at a checkpoint on the outskirts of Baghdad. The American soldiers demanded to search her handbag. When she refused one of the soldiers pointed his gun towards her chest.

"He pointed the laser sight directly in the middle of my chest," said Professor Shaker, a political scientist at Baghdad University. "Then he pointed to his penis. He told me, 'Come here, bitch, I'm going to fuck you.'"

...

According to Prof Shaker, several women held in Abu Ghraib jail were sexually abused, including one who was raped by an American military policeman and became pregnant. She has now disappeared.

...

They were kept in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day, Col Quantock said, with only a Koran.

...

[saigon68]

1. support the troops

until the military does something to weed out these criminals, I for one am going to be very hard on them

sorry troop apologists--

this isn't the way to earn respect from anyone and don't give me this shit they are young--away from mommy---under stress etc.

those excuses are bullshit

[sandnsea]

2. Don't justify hate

Doesn't sound like you ever found a particular need to support the troops, don't use this to justify more hate. Enough is enough.

[saigon68]

10. You have no idea what I'm talking about

Are you here to defend this ????? because if you are you are one of the TROOP APOLOGISTS I REFER TO ABOVE?

When the POW had a PLASTIC FLASHLIGHT RAMMED UP HIS RECTUM ???

When a GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG BITES HIM IN THE TESTICLES ???

When the POW had a 220 Volt wire attached to the TIP OF HIS PENIS ???

When Lynndie England was encouraged to help the POWs obtain erections so they could perform
ORAL SEX ACTS ON EACH OTHER and the PERKY PRINCESS OF ABU GHRAIB
PRISON COULD SHOUT "HE'S GETTING HARD"???

When Lynndie England the PERKY PRINCESS OF ABU GHRAIB DRAGGED a naked POW
around with a Dog Leash

When SPC Sabrina Harman, 372nd MP Company, stated in her sworn statement regarding the
incident where a detainee was placed on a box with electric wires attached to his fingers, toes, and
penis, ““““that her job was to keep detainees awake.”””” It is interesting to speculate that SASSY
SABRINA UNDOUBTEDLY ACCOMPLISHED HER MISSION BY TURNING ON THE
JUICE..

When POW’’S were FORCED to wear Dirty Women’’s Underwear on their Heads

When Colonel Phillabaum said Master Sgt. Lisa Girman, 35, and three other MPs from the same
battalion abused the prisoners at Camp Bucca in southern Iraq on May 12, 2003.


When a POW was beaten to death, HIS BODY PACKED IN ICE and TAKEN OUT IN THE
DESERT AND DUMPED ???

When a Civilian Interrogator ANALLY RAPED A 16 YEAR OLD BOY IN FRONT OF GI
WITNESSES and is going to get a free pass because he was under NO ONES JURISDICTION ???



Apparrently then you don't think these TROOPIES SHOULD BE WEEDED OUT?????????

[sandnsea]

16. You said

"support the troops"..."I for one am going to be very hard on them"

And implied that anyone who doesn't think that ALL the troops should be lumped in one category, "troop apologists".

If you want to hate the troops, go ahead and hate them. But don't use this as an excuse to justify your hatred. The hatred appears to already be in you and has nothing to do with these incidents.

[Mountainman]

3. Just a question to you. Out of 135, 000 troops, what % do you think need

weeding out?

I'm curious as to why you feel the way you do given your military service. Did you feel that all of us in Vietnam didn't deserve the support of those back home because some of us committed atrocities?

In my opinion, most of the troops deserve our support. I can't condemn all of them because of the actions of those ass holes doing this shit.

[SquireJons]

5. What % Bad Apples?

I too wondered how many of the troops over in Iraq are violating international law? Certainly it is a small percentage, but growing due to the stress of the situation. Just like society at large, the military has it's share of dangerous people. So it is reasonable to assume that a number of military personnel in Iraq are doing things that alienate the average Iraqi - whether that is pointing a gun at a woman or child, all the way up to breaking into homes, humiliating and terrorizing ordinary families in order to get one person (who is totally innocent 70%-90% of the time, according to our own intelligence analysis). Many soldiers are probably guilty of random killing of civilians in fire fights. All of this does a tap dance on ones morality and self image.

But what percentage of the troops are committing atrocities? Probably a very small number of US soldiers have done that, then again you don't need very many. How many US personnel are guilty of brutalizing an unarmed, civilian population? Probably a higher than acceptable percentage. And what about the young men that will have to live with the memories of the ordinary people they killed? I've read some horrible stories, particularly at check points.

There will be a heavy, long term price to pay for our futile attempt at remaking the world in our own image. Sorting out the bad apples is just the beginning.

[NNN0LHI]

8. If the 135,000 is a true cross section of America, and you believe polls..

...the percentage looks troubleing.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/polls/usatodaypolls.htm

16. Which comes closer to your view: there are circumstances in which you might find this type of behavior by U.S. soldiers justified, or there are no circumstances under which this type of behavior by U.S. soldiers would be justified?

Circumstances in which justified

23%

No circumstances under which justified

73%

No opinion

4

[Dhalgren]

9. At some point all of those "good" troops

are going to have to stand up, if they don't want to be lumped with the "bad". I'm sure that you remember during the final years of the Vietnam war, there were numerous incidences of US soldiers just not following orders. Whole platoons would just, in essence, sit down and refuse to go out. This began to happen more and more, as it became clear that the war was lost.

This war is lost, too. Every Iraqi murdered (and it is murder)and maimed, every US soldier killed and wounded is a hideous waste that serves no damn good purpose! These "good" troops in Iraq have got to start standing up for themselves and doing what is "right" - only then can we start to separate the "good" from the "bad".

[saigon68]

11. YOUR QUESTION IS VALID Mountainman

I believe that at least 200 different individuals (some civilians) had something to do with either performing, directing, controlling ,sanctioning various types of abuse in the 14 prisons and holding facilities. Several thousand more had suspicions about what may or might have known was going on.

As Don points out 23% of the public in the US believe the RAG HEADS or Sand N----rs( as the vets of Desert storm called them) deserve everything and more they received on the pictures.

In fact some people believe we should draw and quarter them and Pour pig blood on their dismembered carcasses

I hate to see honorable troops used for Nazi Atrocities and they scapegoated like Rum dumb is doing with Lynndie's Six.

[Bandit]

15. When I hear about the soldiers searching out those that committed

the atrocities and taking care of the matter then I will regain some respect. All I hear is a loud deafening silence and that spells cover-up. I think when the soldiers start talking and doing to restore their name it will help restore my confidence in them. Right now they are covering for everyone involved and that makes them accessories to the fact. Someone besides just those few knew what was happening and haven't said a word. They are protecting their own and by doing that sharing in the blame.

[gottaB]

4. Ugh.

Rape. Murder. Extortion. Ugh.

***

US officials have acknowledged detaining women in the hope of convincing male relatives to provide information: a strategy that is in violation of international law.

"The issue is the system," Nada Doumani of the International Committee of the Red Cross said yesterday.

"It is an absence of judicial guarantees. People are being kept in custody without knowing what for. The system is not fair, precise or properly defined."

***

photo threads:

A Kinder, Gentler America: Rounding up the Children of Iraq

couple of pics from today

I'll start a photo thread in GD before I turn in. It's an outrage.

[not systems]

6. Kick for morning.

This seems important.

[Just Me]

7. I suppose the next focus will be on the children.

God help us.

[saigon68]

13. According to Hersh ANAL RAPE OF A 16 YEAR OLD OCCURRED

And a representative of the United States stood there and video taped the action and recorded the child's pitful screaming as his rectum was attacked.

[killbotfactory]

12. This whole mess just keeps getting worse.

Your not supposed to view people your "liberating" as subhuman enemies.

[CWebster]

14. This mindset was reinforced by US bloodlust

after 911.

The troops are an extention of the sentiments of the folks back home.

[SquireJons]

17. Sad

But true.