US forces to pull out of Falluja

[Chicago Democrat]

US forces today announced an end to their siege of Falluja, saying they will pull out immediately to allow a newly-created, Iraqi security force to secure the city.
The new force, known as the Falluja Protective Army, will consist of up to 1,100 Iraqi soldiers led by a former general from the military of Saddam Hussein and will begin moving into the city tomorrow.

Lieutenant Colonel Brennan Byrne said the agreement was reached late last night between US officials and Falluja police and civilian representatives. "The plan is that the whole of Falluja will be under the control of the FPA," Lt Col Byrne told the Associated Press.

Under the new agreement, marines will pull back from their positions in and around Falluja, while the FPA forms a new cordon around it and then moves into the city. According to one report, marines in the city's southern industrial area have already begun packing up gear and loading heavy trucks today after receiving orders to withdraw.

Lt Col Byrne identified the commander of the FPA as General Salah, a former division commander under Saddam. The force will be made up of former Iraqi soldiers and police and be subordinate to the marine 1st Expeditionary Force.

rest at....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1206015,00.html

[Chicago Democrat]

1. I'm a cuttin'

and I'm a runnin'

Yeee Haawww!

[saigon68]

61. Put a Republican Guard General in charge of Security?

Have they gone Mad?

We are paying for it too.

[GalleryGod]

62. Can You Imagine if the Iraqui's Had REAL WEAPONS?

Like Coalition Firepower?

It would've been :spank: Time!

[wryter2000]

2. Great

Put a Baathist back in charge. Not that we know for sure the guy will do anything wrong, but is this Whistle Ass's idea of a victory?

[Dogmudgeon]

3. Humiliating Defeat with Honor!

Nixon would have called it "Peace with Honor".

--bkl
That's honor, not honoUr.

[NMDemDist2]

4. Finally, I hope this is true

we need to pull back, but will Saddam's ex general be less likely to start a bloodbath?

[Chicago Democrat]

12. Saddam's general is a two faced Quisling and

might join the resistance or be a complete boob.

[Eye and Monkey]

59. Perhaps he is General Salah Abdel Rasool, a minor Republican Guard general

If this is the same man, he already has a reputation of doing the dirty-deeds for the Axis of the Billing.

http://www.butchmail.com/news/2003/06/week_3/20_gall.html

Published: 20-June-2003
Suspended Labour MP, George Galloway, claimed he was a victim of conspiracy today as an American publication admitted the documents it based a story accusing the politician of taking money from Saddam Hussein were forged.

He rejected the apology from the Christian Science Monitor and said he would pursue legal action against the paper.

The front page retraction is deeply embarrassing for one of America's more respected newspapers. Its story in April alleging George Galloway had received payments from Saddam Hussein's regime totalling $10m over eleven-years based, it now admits, on bogus documents.

On Republican Guard stationary, they were alleged to have come from a home of Saddam's son, Qusay - from the Special Security Section that he ran.

They came from General Salah Abdel Rasool, a minor Republican Guard general. But when, in May, he sold other, obvious fakes about Mr Galloway to the Mail on Sunday, the Christian Science Monitor launched an investigation.

[northernsoul]

40. two possibilities, neither good

1) the FPA cuts and runs at the first sight of some kid with a pea-shooter. Voila, the marines have to go back in.
2) Desperate to prove that they won't cut and run, the FPA commits several atrocities. Falluja is inflamed, full-on urban warfare AKA a knifefight in a phonebooth resumes

[madrchsod]

wtf????

a former saddam general? what next for the idiots that are running this war? kill thousands then place a general from your enemy in charge? the irony of this is profound.

[Just Me]

5. *sigh* I don't believe anything published by the US military anymore.

They have lied too many times.

[Failure]

6. How can we employ the "thugs and murders and baathists"

The new force, known as the Falluja Protective Army, will consist of up to 1,100 Iraqi soldiers led by a former general from the military of Saddam Hussein and will begin moving into the city tomorrow.


How could anyone argue against the fact that this entire thing is a colossal fuckup??

failure

[Chicago Democrat]

8. Wanna bet they all join the resistance???

[Nihil]

22. Better than that ...

... they've probably been armed and given ammo & fresh supplies by the USA!

This world is getting so surreal that soon we're all going to need LSD
to make any sense of it!

[Failure]

32. Ok, how much LSD will we need? n/t

[Chicago Democrat]

56. Lsd is really rare nowadays

so I hear from some people I used to know

[arcos]

63. hmm, I don't think so...

I've never used it, but I know plenty of people who use it once in a while

[Failure]

64. Shrooms are where it's at. n/t

[Streetdoc270]

33. I had the same thought...

I envision a 'Bravehart' type scene where the 2 forces meat, put down their guns, shake hands, and then attack the Marines together with their new weapons and training we supplied....

[mhr]

7. Seems This Will Strengthen The Insurgents/Patriots

since they will probably have the tacit approval to regroup and reorganize without the threat of US military action.

If one supports the US invasion, I am not sure how this helps.

If one is an Iraqi insurgent/patriot, this is good news.

[wtmusic]

9. How are they going to play this one

when terraists retake the town? :shrug:

[LeftHander]

10. Let me guess....same old Sadam style repression....

to keep insurgents in line.

Remember how pleasent the South Vietnamese were...

[sybylla]

25. Yeah, brilliant move.

I was thinking the same as you, Lefthander. This is a return to the same old crap the Iraqis' had before - only sans Saddam Insane.

Remind me again what the point of the invasion was. :shrug:

I guess we can call it Camoflage Democracy - "It's there, under that General, you just can't see it."

[tom_paine]

39. Yep. But in truth the Busheviks aren't that much different from Saddam

It is only because they have access to more subtle methods of control (though Paul Wellstone could attest they can "get tough" when they have to) and the fact that if they tried Saddam-style repression it'd be Civil War 2 in no time.

But the Busheviks and the Baathists are the same kinds of people. One set is Muslim Talibanm, the other is Christian Taliban.

[kodi]

48. you know the back story on that pix?

your remarks show you don't.

[renegade000]

49. from what i've heard

it actually took place in the midst of the fighting in the streets of saigon during the tet offensive, please correct me if i'm wrong.

[kodi]

51. context, then

That photo was taken by Eddie Adams in Saigon during the Tet Offensive in January 1968. It won him a Pulitzer Prize.

It is a photo of South Vietnam's national police chief, Brig. Gen. Nguyen Ngoc Loan, executing a Viet Cong officer on the streets of Saigon with a pistol shot to his head.

The Vietcong captain that Loan executed had been seen killing a policeman and his wife and children, all whom Loan knew personally. Nguyen Van Lem was captured, his hands bound, he was brought in front of a group of journalists. Loan pulled out his revolver and immediately executed the prisoner.

Was the VC captain a spy, terrorist or a prisoner of war? Or was he a murderer who was executed during a battle? Or was he a martyred patriot?

As far as context, during Tet in Saigon, the VC had infiltrated 5 battalions of guerillas into Saigon and who wrecked havoc on the city for days and who even held parts of the city weeks later.

During that week in the winter of 1968, one could see TV footage and newspaper photos of Viet Cong guerrillas breaching the U.S. Embassy compound in Saigon, dead and wounded American soldiers in the besieged city of Khe San, and Marines dragging wounded and bloodied buddies from fighting in Hue.

That photo flashed is not the whole story of those times.

[KansDem]

11. "Mission accomplished"...again?

:shrug:

[PsN2Wind]

13. Needed someone that had the experience

to organize the burials in "mass graves".

[Mikimouse]

14. Whaddya mean? Oh, I see, you were just following my suggestion...

and brought it on? Alrighty then, I'm outta here!

[Snellius]

15. Is this official?

I don't think a few quotes by a Lieutenant Colonel to the press is the last word of this.

[sniffa]

16. stay the curse

are the freepers freaking out about this?

[Goldmund]

21. A few representative comments:

1) "Jimmy Carter" hahaha

Me, either. My trust in the brains-that-be is beginning to falter. Who's running the Iraq war? Jimmy Carter? What's with this "you have until tonight to hand in your weapons or else!" warning followed the next day by... nothing. Followed by a pull-out! What?! I don't care if the Iraqi police go in there and exterminate every bad guy... WE come out of it looking weak (except perhaps to the Socialist RATS in our own country, who see weakness as strength), which is not the signal we want to send to the Islamofascists across the world.


2) "Nukemall"

Maybe the Marines are just pulling ack to be out of the blast and fallout radius

3) Sounds like RATS:

I'm not sure pulling out of Fallujah is the way to win. I'm not in charge, so I don't get to call the shots, but this move sounds like something a Democrat leader would do, not a Republican.

4) Last but not the least:

This situation in Iraq is starting to stink.

The war situation raises more questions than providing answers. Blind trust will only go so far. It is becoming time for more answers from the Bush administration. Are we winning the war? Is the war just a political gimmick to win re-election? Why are so many troops now being killed in Iraq? Who is running the war--WH, Pentagon, Field Office?

[sniffa]

26. ooh that Last one

musta got a bunch of boos, and accusations of being a LiberaL.

[argonne]

17. Saddam himself will be next!

Bush will say Saddam knows the country best and deserves a second chance!

And 45% of this country will say if GWB wants it, it must be right!

Go Saddam!

[rocktivity]

18. BRING ON DA NOISE! BRING ON THE BOMBS!

They said they were backing off and bombed yesterday. Now they're saying they're pulling out and leaving former Saddam-ites in place? Don't be surprised if there's a MOAB on its way...

:headbang:
rocknation

[maddezmom]

19. CNNI reporting renewed fighting 11:30 ET....more to come

[Algorem]

20. They've gotta be deciding these things by polls.

[Nihil]

23. More likely "barge-poles" ...

... "Whoa, I'm not touching *that*!"

[Webster Green]

24. Sounds like flip-flopping by the administration.

What about all the terrishts?

What about staying the course?

Idiots!

[MUAD_DIB]

27. The US didn't take the city...did they?

Does that mean we lost the battle?

[markses]

29. Yes. It sure does.

Despite all the bullshit you'll hear in the next few days.

[demoman123]

35. The US has lost the battle of Fallujah.

That's what this means.

The US has not captured the perps of the merc massacre.

The US has not gotten the resistance to turn over its weapons.

The US has put control of the city in the hands of the former enemy army.

[keithyboy]

28. It is a 'flip-flop' when you first have a war to rid Iraq of Saddam's

forces and then turn security over to them? Just asking.

[skip fox]

30. Listen, we all know it's "Cut and run" or "W. blinked," BUT

we should be damned glad that some cooler heads prevailed.

My problem with using this politically, is that people's lives are at stake (on both sides), and this crew in the administration is just stupid (filled, as the worst, with a "passionate intensity"-Yeats) enough to react to our charges with a renewed determination to make the Iraqi population submit. Dig?

[lucky777]

31. Operation Protect Whitey

This sounds like South Park, where they send in the black soldiers so that the whites don't get hurt. We're sending in the Iraqis to kill other Iraqis while we stand in the background. Brilliant!

[Chicago Democrat]

41. Great! Brilliant! Gin & Tonic please! Great! Brilliant! Gin & Tonic pleas!

great

[RummyTheDummy]

54. Should be familiar

That's exactly what we did in Afghanistan, specifically with the Tora Bora debacle.

[SOS]

34. Good!

Should''ve done this in January, the whole idiotic mess could have been averted.

[Gothmog]

36. Declare Victory and run

Maybe this will set a pattern for the rest of Iraq. Declare victory and then cut and run

[underpants]

37. So they "agreed" to put Sunnis in charge of Shi'ia? Civil war is nigh

Thanks for facilitating what we all said was inevitable anyway.

[Crunchy Frog]

42. Fallujah is Sunni not Shia

but it sounds like it's a mess anyway.

[Briarius]

38. any bets on how long until this guy claims to rule Falluja?

how about how long before tells the marines to screw off?

[Chicago Democrat]

43. About 5 days

[Piperay]

44. "New boss...

same as the old boss". :thumbsdown: We are retreating, that's what it amounts to. :-(

[jeanmarc]

52. Fool me once, shame on you....

Fool me twice, won't get fooled again. - George W. Cocaine-addled pigeon brain Bush

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. One possible scenario.

Possibility:

It appears that the Iraqi forces that we put into Falluja over the past few days haven't been massacared (remember - the ones the Marines were supposed to do joint patrols with) So I think the assumption here is that the fighters in Falluja don't want to shoot other Iraqis, thus destroying the goodwill of their fellow civilans towards them.
Putting a baathist (and fellow Sunni?) in charge is probably about as close as you can get to admitting that the Falluja strategy has been a complete failure on all fronts.

Now what does this accomplish? It will have the immediate effect of something like 8-10 marines not dying everyday, which is all Bush really wants. The US still won't have secured Falluja. We won't be able to re-enter the city without re-starting combat. All of the armed rebels in Falluja will still be there, armed. They just won't have anything to shoot at (for the moment anyway.) And the Falluja defence army or whatever the hell it's called probably won't want to shoot at them unless they're shot at first. (no need to go getting yourself killed unless it's fighting the Americans)
Some of the soldiers will probably defect. Most won't (assuming that we're actually paying them reasonably) unless they're getting shot at, since now they have one of the few actual JOBS in Iraq. My guess would be that these guys will be very well paid, unless we're complete idiots (and we seem to be dangerously close to that right now)

So what will happen to the fighters in Falluja? They will probably move off, piecemeal, to other places where they can fight the Americans. There won't be as many of them in one place to attack us, but now they'll be all over. Great.

[Teaser]

47. Agreed. Fallujah will remain a staging area, though..

It will be a wonderful home base for insurgents. Even more so than before, because it will basically be run by a military administration it has infiltrated.

[NYC]

60. They are paid $60 per month, less than garbage collectors.

...One problem for the Iraqi army is that the men are being paid only $60 a month, less than garbage collectors in Baghdad, for a dangerous job. "Somebody wanted an army on the cheap," Mr Allawi said...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=516306
Siege of Fallujah provokes second mutiny.

[Chicago Democrat]

46. They ALWAYS say they're gonna PULL OUT

But they always lie.

[BattyDem]

53. If their definition of "pull-out" ...

is similar to their definition of "cease-fire", Fallujah is screwed!

[Chicago Democrat]

55. Its like a high school date.. I swear I'll pull out.

before.

[Failure]

50. If We're Leavin'...Why Are We Bombing??

[MrSlayer]

57. Are you kidding me?

How retarded do we look now? Jesus Christ, at this point we should just put Saddam back, say we're sorry and leave. What a great victory it was over Saddam's regime that is now back in power by our request. Why does no one see the insanity of this?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

65. Weeeell, now that you mention it.....................

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-maher18apr18,0,6440128.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

[huellewig]

58. Assuming the best..

This new Army is three weeks old. More likely it's two days old. WTF. This is the most brain dead thing ever. If I go out in the morning I can hire hundreds of people to remodel my house. The result would be a very bad house. These things take time to build-up teamwork. You can't make a army overnight.

What I think the plan is. Pay off Iraqis to take heavy casualties and hope they get some of them. Then have our our boys go in and clean up. That looks better on the news (lower casualty count). What I think will happen. 1,100 hundred new members of the resistance, armed by the United States.