Road Deaths From Crashes Involving SUVs Rise

[hatrack]

WASHINGTON - "Deaths from crashes of motorcycles and sport utility vehicles rose last year, leading to a slight increase in the overall highway fatality count.

Preliminary figures show 43,220 people died in 2003 - the highest number since 1990 when 44,529 died in auto accidents and up slightly from the 42,815 deaths in 2002, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Wednesday. People drove more total miles last year, so the rate of deaths per miles traveled was about the same.

Fifty-eight percent of those killed weren't wearing seat belts, a source of frustration for Jeffrey Runge, administrator of the traffic safety agency, whose emphasis on seat belt use helped achieve a record use rate of 79 percent last year.

EDIT

Passenger car fatalities declined 3.8 percent, but SUV fatalities increased 11 percent for a total of 4,451. Runge said that was partly due to a 12 percent increase in SUV sales, but he said SUV rollover also was a significant problem. There would have been only a 4 percent increase in deaths if no SUVs had rolled over, Runge said."

EDIT

[Mr.Green93]

1. seat belts save lives

[pocoloco]

2. As do sensible speed limits and their enforcement!

[treepig]

4. definitely,

for example, consider the autobahn, where there is the most sensible speed limit of all, and the fatality rate is 13% lower than on the us interstates.

[ze_dscherman]

9. Speed limit on the Autobahn?

There's no speed limit on the German Autobahn. But I tell you, driving there is no fun any more, because too many drivers see this as a license to push others in a very reckless way. And besides, there are lots of traffic jams and local speed limits.

[treepig]

10. exactly, no speed limit is the most sensible speed limit

in the usa at least, speed limits are arbitrarily set low enough that everyone breaks them, which serves two purposes:

1) provides a revenue source for cash-strapped local governments

2) provides an excuse for the cops to stop anyone at anytime

speed limits have essentially nothing to do with safety - people drive the speed they're confortable with most of the time (for example, average speeds only rose 2% when montana eliminated the day time speed limit for a while a while ago).

[Zero Gravitas]

11. sensible speed limits

Having a higher (or no limit) is all very well, but the level of driver skill is much higher in Germany, they don't give licenses away and people are trained to drive defensively. IF we got rid of speed limits here the poor driving skills of the average motorist combined with the "its all about me me ME" attitude would cause a blood bath.

[ze_dscherman]

12. I disagree

I'm very much for a speed limit!

- Much less stress on the motorway - Just imagine driving with 80 mph on the left lane, overtaking some big trucks on a rainy day, when suddenly someone with 130 mph approaches you from behind, lights blinking, tailing you as close as a cars length until you have finally overtaken the trucks? Actually, this is forbidden, but this happens pretty often. And not everyone is a race car driver. Also, having a slower car on a German autobahn is awkward - you could be much faster than the trucks before you (50 mph maximum allowed), but just getting over to the left lane is difficult, because other cars will drive something like 80-90 mph. Coming from Germany and then driving on another countries motorway is soooo relaxing.

- Much less noise. One can hear German motorways for miles, and since Germany is a densely populated country, this is more than a nuisance. The sound a car makes is in close relation to it's speed.

- Energy consumption / less pollution. In direct relation to the speed of a car.

- Lower costs for building roads. The Autobahn is built according to special rules, that allows high speed - many and broad lanes, many security devices, etc. Motorways in other countries would not qualify for a Autobahn without speed limit.

It's only due to the strong lobby of motorist associations and the car industry that there's no speed limit.

[Kellanved]

15. I agree somewhat

I'm all for a sensible speed limit on the Autobahn. However: I had the joy of driving on an Interstate earlier this month and it was no fun at all. :scared:

Granted, I wasn't used to the local road customs (and it appeared to me to be 97% customs and 3% rules.), but still.
Imagine short or no acceleration lanes, narrow lanes, potholes, people with huge cars overtaking left and right, people using their cell-phones while overtaking, people reading while overtaking, ... , "lever" at the Gas station (:wtf:) ... . :scared:
I'm not an experienced driver, but I felt way more comfortable in the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain and France

[WVhill]

13. The sensible speed limit is the one people set themselves.

It's democracy in action. If I recall correctly highway engineers survey traffic speeds and then select the speed at which the majority of the vehicles are traveling. that works out to be around the 68 percentile speed. Of course that's for ideal conditions.

Anyone driving significantly slower or faster is a hazard. Unfortunately speed limits aren't usually enforced or set for safety. the interesting aspect is that most people drive at the speed they feel comfortable given existing conditions. That's the reason for the survey and the use of results to set speed limits. By setting speed limits below the "engineered" limits, some folks will strictly obey the limit or even drive slower to be "safer" creating a situation of disparate speeds betwen vehicles. But the majority will continue to drive at the speed at which they feel comfortable. the key is we're all safer if we drive at close to the same speed.

In short, for safety, the speed demons need to slow down, the pokies need to speed up.

As you said, in many areas speed limits are really set for revenue and not safety. In WV, with "interesting" terrain, most interstates are 70 with the cops allowing 80 unless you happen to be driving a red vehicle with NJ plates. I had a rental that met that criteria and got pulled over for doing 79. When the trooper saw from my license that I was a local, he put the ticket book away and told me to be careful.

Next time I'll be careful not to rent a vehicle with NJ plates.

[burrowowl]

24. In Germany

cars are inspected every year, if your windshield is scratched you have to replace it, any mechanical problems have to be fixed immediately, tires, etc. The Germans pay for very high maintenance for the privilege of speeding on the autobahn. Also, in Germany and in France semi's are not allowed on highways week-ends and holidays.

[LETSGETFREAKY]

18. I do some products liability work

And having dealt with large car manufacturers, typically SUV's aren't the problem, it is the corners manufacturers cut when making their product. Almost any car will stand up to an above average crash with an SUV, it is typically some form of "defect" within the car which injures and kills people

[markses]

3. SUVers: We're trying to have a society here!

Act according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should be a universal law.

- Immanuel Kant

[Dogmudgeon]

5. But we need more Sound Science™!

Dr. Bush says so hisself!

--bkl

[Stuckinthebush]

6. I notice a lot of teenagers with SUVs

I would think that a parent would not want to purchase an SUV for a beginning driver due to the SUVs tendency to roll over.

[KansDem]

7. I believe I know why SUV fatalities are up...

Deaths from crashes of motorcycles and sport utility vehicles rose last year...

But I don't believe I've ever seen a motorcyclist on a cell phone...:shrug:

[Eye and Monkey]

25. I see a no-helmet yuppie-biker on a cellphone nearly every weekend.

Yuppies with 20K$+ motorcycles seem to be a bit of a fad around here. Most seem to pay the extra insurance for the no-helmet option, as well.

Of course, they tend to congregate at a couple of drinking establishments. Which means -

[AP]

8. passenger car safety has increased dramatically in the last 10-15

years, while SUV safety continues to decrease as they get bigger and bigger.

One of the biggest safety improvements is ABS. The number of fatalities from rear-end collissions has decreased dramatically because people no longer lock-up their breaks and plough straight into the backs of other cars. You slam on your breaks and stear around the car in front of you onto the shoulder or break-down lane.

The stunning rise in fatalities has come from off-road accidents. SUVs carry so much weight and therefore require much longer stopping distances. Roads -- and shoulders, particularly -- are the same width they've alwasy been. It's wide enough for cars to slow them down enough before they hit grass (and trees). But shoulder widths aren't sufficient for SUVs. They run out of pavement before they've slowed down enough, and they're still carrying a lot of weight and momentum when they hit the grass. When they hit the grass with a lot of speed, the passengers are in trouble.

[WVhill]

14. ABS may delude people into thinking they are safer.

For example in the Ford Exploder incidents in which a tire blew out and the driver hit the brakes causing the vehicle to slew around and then roll. Never hit the brakes when a tire blows. If you watch other drivers very carefully, you'll notice some as you follow them that seldom if ever use brakes on roads without traffic controls. They pay attention and adjust the vehicle speed when necessary without using the brakes.

Far too many people use their brakes unnecessarily.

[AP]

16. Slamming on the breaks in an SUV doesn't have to do with ABS....

...it's a natural reaction, and people do it in cars too.

You can't do it in an SUV because it forces the car to catapult over the front end. Cars have lower centers of gravity, and don't catapult when you slam on the breaks with a blown tire.

I should emphasize: yes, DO NOT SLAM ON YOUR BREAKS IN AN SUV WHEN A TIRE BLOWS.

Anyway, blown tires (with the exception of the Explorer) are rare and don't significantly contribute to the overall fatality statistics.

And I'm serious about this. If you look at studies of vehicle safety, you see overall safety numbers relatively steady, with a slight uptick. You see that car safety DRAMATICALLY improves over the last decade or so. You see SUV safety getting a little worse. You see WAY more SUVs being purchased every year (from, IIRC, less than 10% a decade ago to over 50% now).

Then you look farther into the numbers and what do you have? Fatalities from rear endings down A LOT, but fatalities from off-road accidents are way higher (ie, fatalities occuring after the vehicle leaves the paved road). Then you look at some of the other big changes (and things that haven't been changed during that time).

Well, you have bigger, heavier cars. You have roads that have run-off areas that have not increased in proportion to the inertia larger cars drive with. You have ABS (and air bags).

I think it's pretty obvious what's going on.

In fact, just ask your friends about their accidents and read the papers and look around you when you drive. Ever drive into the sun during rush hour? People are constantly slamming on their breaks and driving into the breakdown lane. Do you drive in snowy condidtions? Ever notice which cars go the farthest off the road when a momentary lapse in concentration means two wheels and then four wheels off the pavement? That's right. It's the SUVs that just about reach the tree line.

[WVhill]

17. I'm not sure what you mean by catapult.

The vehicles you see leaping into the air on TV and in the movies are staged. That is rare in real life. One instance of that happened recently when a guy ran off the road, hit an earth bank and ended up on the roof of a bar. I think that made national news because it was so unusual.

I have no doubt about the running off road situations you've mentioned. I think a factor is that some folks are lulled into inattention by some of the safety features themselves. There was some data that indicated vehicles with airbags when they were first introduced were more likely to be involved in accidents. It seems the safer a person feels because of four wheel drive, air bags, ABS, etc, the less they pay attention and then sh*t happens.

Much of the effort in ensuring safety has involved equipment rather than training. Seat belts have proven that drivers can be educated about safe driving. Four wheel drive doesn't do anything for you in slippery conditions and can lull folks into believing they can drive faster than they could in a car in those situations. Four wheel drive is great for some snow conditions and off road in mud. For most drivers, it's a waste of money.

Having air bags is no guarantee because they are useless after the first impact. If another car hits you or you hit another car or obstacle after the first impact that activates the airbags, your protection is gone. The seat belt still works. I wonder how many folks don't wear seat belts because they have airbags.

An elderly lady was killed recently when she was forced off the road, came back on the road wrong, crossed over the highway, hit the bank on the left side, and was ejected from the car. I'm sure some folks have died screaming as their ABS pulsed the brake and they still slid into something and were killed because their inattention eliminated any chance of reacting and living by doing something other than slamming on the brakes when it's too late.

We need better and continued education for drivers.

[AP]

19. That's what happened to Explorers when the tire blew.

They catapulted over the front end after drivers slammed on the breaks. That's what caused the roll-over. (Remember that phrase, "rollover"?) Passenger cars don't do that because of the lower center of gravity. Slamming on the break in an SUV with a blown tire is incredibly dangerous.

If not for ABS and air bags, why do you think there are way fewer fatalities from rear-ending and fewer rear-end collisions, for that matter?

Have you seen the statistics? Again, I'm being totally serious. Dramatic decrease in passenger car fatalities (notwithstanding added safety features you're complaining about :) ) and dramatic decrease in rear-ending collisions, and way more deaths from accidents which occur after vehicle leaves the pavement -- in fact, so many that the overall rate is staying steady despite all the progress with passenger vehicles.

What conclusion would you draw?

I guess you could say that people are getting wheels off the road from cell phone use, but you'd think that if cell phones were the problem, there wouldn't be the dramatic reduction in rear-endings, since both are caused by lack of concentration, I'd guess. The same logic applies to being lulled into inattention by the safety devices themselves -- clearly people are paying enough attention so that they're not driving into the backs of other cars at higher riates, so why are they failing to notice what's going on when they're just before the point of no return on the side of the road?

I say it's the same degree of inattention in both circumstances, but you really pay for it once you get a couple tires on the grass because of SUV weight, the fact that no breaks are really going to help you on the grass (SUV or otherwise), and because roads aren't designed with run off areas for vehicles, 50% of which are two to three times heavier than the average car 15 years ago. Thanks to ABS, you can still save yourself when you're still on the pavement.

[AP]

20. Another thing to note: ABS allows you to break and steer, keeping the car

under control. ABS does NOT reduce stopping distance (and actually increases it in snowy and icy situations).

That's why, in my opinion, rear endings have decreased, but off-road fatalities have increased.

When you rear-end someone, the problem is not just stopping distance, it's control. If you slam on the breaks but you're withing the stopping range of your vehicle, your only way to avoid the accident is to steer around the vehicle in front of you. Because most roads on which people drive fast have a shoulder and a breakdown lane, you're almost always going to have a little distance on each side of your lane to steer around a car in front of you while staying on the pavement.

Now, when you drive off the road, steering and control aren't your problems in most cases. Your problem is usually stopping distance.

Say a road curves, but you didn't realize it, that's when you want to break and steer with control. But I think a lot of going off road is just getting one wheel off the road and losing control, or not realizing until its too late that you're headed the wrong direction. The problem usually isn't that there's something in front of you that you have to break and drive around (unless you're on a two-lane road and you're going fast and someone's in your lane coming at you or stopped). So, you either don't have the stopping distance (for which ABS won't make a difference) or you're way past the point of stopping helping you, because you have alll four wheels off the pavement.

When you're in an SUV, you'll be carrying a lot more moment (thanks to all that weight) carrying you farther from the road, and the farther you get from the road, the closer you get to hazards, like trees and other obstacles.

[WVhill]

21. I think a lot of those off road excursions like the elderly lady who died

are still due to driver's error. I think she was driving a Tracker. From the accident description she didn't know how to recover and return to the roadway after having a wheel drop off the shoulder. When you're faced with a hazardous situation, you don't have time to think. In a very few seconds you can be killed or injured. I'm not disagreeing on the effects of the extra weight of many SUVs and the possibilities once it leaves the roadway. I believe that the inherent characteristics along with the truck-like characteristics of some SUVs ends up killing poor drivers.

[AP]

22. I think the point to remember is that driver error probably isn't...

...increasing (or at least not by much) -- if it were increasing, you you wouldn't see the dramatic drop off in rear-end collissions.

The point to remember is that SUVs magnify the consequences of driver error, and Americans need to ask themselves, if we're not going to teach people how to drive SUVs, and if we're not going to make the roads wider, and if we're not going to make SUVs lower, lighter, safer, and, uhm, smaller, then shoud we be using the law other ways to make driving safer for drivers and passengers of SUVs.

I just read a case about an olympic swimmer who was convicted of negligent homicide for driving while tired and killing her boyfriend and a kid. She was driving an SUV and the first thing I thought was whether this was another case of the SUV being a big part of the resultant fatalities.

You'd think that the families of the deceased and the defendant herself would be happier today if the gov't had stepped in at some point in the last decade and said that it's just not safe to have 50% of drivers driving around in dangerous vehicles on roads not designed to handle them.

[WVhill]

23. Another factor to consider is the decrease in accidents

involving large trucks and the fact that the ones that do occur that involve cars are most often due to an error on the part of the driver of the car. In that case you have a class of driver that's subject to stricter standards than the average car or SUV driver.