Kerry Says Bush, Cheney Have No Standing

[Say_What]

<clips>

CLEVELAND - John Kerry (news - web sites) said Tuesday that President Bush (news - web sites) and Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) have no standing in criticizing his military service and anti-war effort, considering questions about one's National Guard attendance and the other's deferments from Vietnam.

"I think a lot of veterans are going to be very angry at a president who can't account for his own service in the National Guard, and a vice president who got every deferment in the world and decided he had better things to do, criticizing somebody who fought for their country and served," Kerry told the Dayton Daily News.

For the second day, disputes over what Kerry and Bush did during the Vietnam War-era and the campaign's exchange of charges have overshadowed the Democratic presidential candidate's bus tour of industrial states that have lost manufacturing jobs. Kerry told Ohio voters Tuesday that Bush's record on job creation should be described as "mission not accomplished."

That complaint came four days before the May 1 anniversary of Bush's declaration of an end to major combat operations in Iraq (news - web sites). The president made the announcement aboard an aircraft carrier bearing a banner that read "Mission Accomplished." Critics derided the banner and the declaration after U.S. casualties mounted.

<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040427/ap_on_el_pr/kerry&cid=694&ncid=2043>

[maddezmom]

1. John Kerry coming on strong

:)

[Timefortruth]

4. At last, we need every Democrat reading these talking points. nt

.

[stopthegop]

2. Kerry is being criticized for multiple versions of

what he did after he got home....not the same as criticizing his service...and serving doesn't exempt him from criticism from now on...

[Skittles]

3. wtf are you talking about

RNC spins?

[stopthegop]

5. no...

in different interviews he has given different statements about what he threw, who it belonged to and such...it's valid to ask him to reconcile differing versions....

[maddezmom]

10. ok, but the guys asking don't have any medals or ribbons to toss

cuz they had better things to do than serve their country. :eyes:

[stopthegop]

military service isn't required to be a citizen...

they have every right to ask...and they should be ready to answer questions on their own pasts as well

[Skittles]

33. if you're gonna be a warmongering asshole

OR SUPPORT THEM - you better have f***ing SERVED.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

50. It's all smoke...

Does it make a difference if he threw the medals and not the ribbons or the ribbons and not the medals. And the "conflicting reports" they're talking about concern statements made more than thirty years ago.

The salient facts are that when duty called, John Forbes Kerry said in a loud unequivocal voice, "Send me." George Walker Bush hid behind his family's name and priviledge.

[Timefortruth]

12. Let's trace Bush's many versions of his service record.

Or his lies about when he became sober.

Sorry, what they are attacking is trivial.

[Qutzupalotl]

15. Fortunately, he did reconcile them.

http://blog.johnkerry.com/dbunker/archives/001343.html

A wood and wire fence was erected around the Capitol, and thousands of veterans then lined up to return to the government their medals, ribbons, discharge papers, and uniforms by throwing these items over the fence. Many veterans made a statement before returning the military paraphernalia and the protest took hours because of the long line of protestors returning their medals. The veterans who could not attend the event in DC had surrogates throw the medals on their behalf. John Kerry threw back combat ribbons representing awards he won in Vietnam. He also returned the medals of two veterans who could not attend the event.

John Kerry is proud of the work he did to end the Vietnam War. He returned his ribbons as a symbolic gesture to make the point that the Vietnam war had to end. For John Kerry, the symbolism of medals and ribbons is interchangeable: "We all referred to them as the symbols they were representing," he told "Good Morning America" on ABC.

[DemMother]

20. medals = ribbons

Read Daily Kos or a number of other sites that explain this better than the RNC. Also read the account of someone who was there--Thomas Oliphant.


From Washington Monthly:
"JOHN KERRY'S MEDALS....I know that I'm hardly in a position to complain about political minutiae, but is this whole John Kerry flap really about (a) whether he threw ribbons over a fence in 1971 or the actual medals themselves, and (b) whether or not soldiers routinely refer to their uniform ribbons as "medals"?

(Answer: (a) ribbons, (b) yes.)

Even by the admittedly low standards of Campaign 2004, isn't this a fairly desperate line of attack?

Anyway, Thomas Oliphant was there when it happened, and he tells the story in the Boston Globe today."

Links:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/04/27/i_watched_kerry_throw_his_war_decorations/

http://www.dailykos.com


I spent my lunch hour yesterday writing to ABC and others who had this wrong. It's depressing to have to do it on DU.

[Skittles]

32. bs

it's republican whores twisting words - how about our lying, thieving piece of SHIT "president" tell us where he was in '72? How about that?

[lancdem]

6. His service is being crititcized, too

For example, the whole Purple Heart question.

[stopthegop]

8. I agree...that's a different set of talking points, and wrong eom

[blm]

9. They DID criticize his service - they questioned his Purple Hearts.

Or rather, they had their operatives do it for them.

[Timefortruth]

11. Pleezzzzzzzzze!

These issues are certainly related. Kerry's actions to work to end the war compared to Chimps actions at the same time, which may be getting drunk and falling down.

If they want to raise the issue of what each man was doing 30 years ago Bush's AWOL is certainly on the table. Furthermore Bush's drug abuse during that same time should also be fair game.

[Generator]

13. Not true, they HAVE criticized that he didn't deserve the purple hearts

and let me say it again:

Those were his FREAKING MEDALS, not anyone elses, and he can do whatever the hell he wants with them. I don't care what he did with them. Unfortunately, there is a tape of him saying one thing twenty some years ago, and then another recently saying another. But if those are the kind of "lies" you are concerned with, congrats!

Our leaders in treason are making sure there are no such mistakes during their testimony of 9/11. Nothing can be proven there.

[Democat]

16. Are you crazy? They are questioning his service every single day!

Have you actually read anything that the right wing has been saying?

They question everything Kerry has done since he was born and he has every right to fire back at them with everything he's got.

What do you propose, we let the right wing trash Kerry while he acts "nice".

These thugs only understand one thing, and Kerry is kicking them hard and often over this issue.

[Bandit]

27. No they are criticizing his service also

Questioning how he received his first purple heart and did he kill civilians etc. etc. If only they would stop at just criticizing his actions after he returned from combat but they most certainly do not.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

38. Do you ALWAYS have to defend the RNC?

Tiresome. Transparent. :boring:

[rocktivity]

7. Damn right

And after having been slammed by Cheney at that college, I think Kerry needs to go one step farther and suggest that such blatant hypocrisy reflects badly on Bush's overall judgement.

:headbang:
rocknation

[No Mandate Here.]

14. When Kerry Wins, he should

go to a recently reopened factory that rehires outsourced people, in a business suit, and make a speech before a big banner that says Mission Accomplished!

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[Beefheart]

21. Why not a rebuttal rather than a "loyalty check"?

I'm not from FR.

My father got a deferment too, and he was already voting for Kerry with reluctance.

[maddezmom]

22. are you going to vote for Kerry?

just wondering... :)

[Beefheart]

25. Of course

Kucinich won't get the nomination, and he wouldn't win against Bush anyway. I can vote for Nader, since i'm in a state (MA) where Kerry is guaranteed the nomination, but I won't for Nader independent of the Green Party.

[belle]

28. People who have "other priorities" than fighting should really not be so

gung-ho as Cheney to send other peoples' children off to die. Don't you agree?

[Beefheart]

34. Even if Cheney were a five-star general he'd still be wrong

about the war in Iraq and wrong to be "so gung-ho" "to send other peoples' children off to die."

[Beetwasher]

24. What A Load of Crap

It's Cheney and Bush who are attacking Kerry first. Those cowards ran away from vietnam any way they could, Kerry served honorably. If they don't want attention drawn to their cowardice, then they should not condone the questioning of Kerry's service by any one on their staff. Kerry's service is being attacked by their surrogates and don't think for a second or try to tell me it being done without Bush and Cheney's approval. At least Kerry has the balls to take it directly to them instead hiding behind surrogates.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[74dodgedart]

35. Kerry showed courage both by fighting in the war and protesting the war.

What was Bush doing during Viet Nam (or does he remember).

I don't have a problem with Bush or Cheney getting deferments (Clinton got one), but, I think they should be repectful of otheres service.

Kerry is right, this is a made up controversy.

[Beetwasher]

37. Bush and Cheney are Cowards and Anyone Who Defends Them

Is an enabler (That would be you). No two ways about it. They supported a war they themselves would NOT fight in. They are cowards because they can't admit the truth, NOT because they didn't want to go to Vietnam. If they weren't cowards they would admit it, but they don't. They hide behind others to do their talking and to attack Kerry. Cowards. They won't admit their mistakes out fear of the consequences. Cowards. They claim to have principles, but won't fight for them, but will allow others to fight and die for their supposed principles. Cowards. They lie and cheat to cover up their crimes and accept no responsibility for their actions. HYPOCRITICAL COWARDS.

Obviously, you don't have a clue about what the word means.

Kerry's statement was not stupid just because you say so.

[Liberal Gramma]

39. Let's define "coward"

While I don't think everyone who objected to, and avoided, the Vietnam War was a coward, there is ample evidence to support the hypothesis that Bush is one. What was he doing on 9/11, flying from one secret location to another? Why was he whisked into Iraq in the dead of night at Thanksgiving? Why are people who disagree with him kept away in "free speech" zones when he speaks? These are not the actions of an X-Man wannabe.

[saskatoon]

40. Bush WASN"T A Coward

Holy Jeezuz! He's a goddamn coward and how you can say he is not is unbeleivable---where you coming from boy.

[bobbyboucher]

46. What a pantload of apologist horseshit!

You have no standing either. Take your ignorant apologist fellatio of Bush/Cheney to the proper forum.

I've fucking seen it all now. Trying justify Bush/Cheney as lucky and sensible because they got out of Nam, all the while supporting it, and now can grind Kerry, who was against the war but still served, for petty bullshit regarding his protestations after the immoral war which slaughtered millions of innocents? The same pair of pussies that are starting illegal and immoral wars today? Give me a fuckin' break.

You have reached a new low in blumpkin giving. You should really go to the blumpkin hall of fame and apply, just show them your posts here and you will surely get a hearing.

Serenity now!

[Blasphemer]

26. Not at all...

He's not just criticizing someone for trying to avoid going to Vietnam, he's criticizing hypocrites who got out of going to Vietnam and yet, insist on trashing a Veteran of that war. THAT is the issue.

[emulatorloo]

29. He has long been uncritical of people's choices re Vietnam war -

he has said it was a complicated time, and people did what they needed to do. I am sorry I don't have the exact quote.


However, now someone is attacking him who has no right to attack him - so he is well within his rights to discount Cheney.

[July]

41. They attack to diminish his service.

And they are trying to "Gore" him, as well.

His combat experience and his credibility are liabilities for Bush. Therefore, they will attack both. He's fully justified in attacking back, in my opinion. They will keep trying to pick away at him.

I agree with Timefortruth, it is trivial. It is only kept alive by Bush shills working the media the same way they did in 2000. Bush's record and statements couldn't survive a day of careful scrutiny. Isn't he lucky that he's never been subjected to that?

[74dodgedart]

31. The point is..

That someone who got deferments is on shakey ground when they criticize the service of someone who was actually there..Not whether or not Cheney got deferments...

Cheney is a classic chickenhawk...

[Submariner]

44. When Kerry and I joined the Navy in 1965/66,

at the same time chickenshit Cheney started hiding behind his 1st of FIVE deferments, going to battle against communism was a noble cause. It was only in late 1966 to mid-1967 did it become apparent that we'd been had by that other ahole from Texas, LBJ and his cohort McNamara.

Most of us had our change of heart about Nam during the late '60s, and yes vented our rage justifiably, just like Kerry, in 1970-71. It was a matter of character. Did you feel you owed your country military service for enjoying your freedom at home, like your father and uncles did in WWII?....or NOT.

That may sound corny nowadays, but that is how we felt at the time. Cheney could have been a stand-up guy and served his country when it called, but no, typical of the majority of republicans they dove for the easy way out of serving their country.

It wasn't just Vietnam, there were many ships, subs, and planes to man then, the repugs could've contributed more than just phony yellow-belly excuses like Tom DeLay.

[Timefortruth]

45. What is refreshing is that the argument has no merit.

It would worry me if someone came up with a valid point as to why Bush and Cheney's military is not fair game.

While Kerry served in, then protested Vietnam, Bush had a spoon up his nose and would get drunk and fall down. If he was sober he was using his daddy's influence to prove, not for the first time nor the last, that he is a coward to the core. Cheney was a more sophisticated coward, but his failure to be patriotic enough to put his life on the line speaks volumes about his hypocrisy.

Hey, if they supported the war why didn't they fight in it?

[roguevalley]

19. Regarding the medals mess up, how about Kerry asking for a deep

discussion about Bush's 'medals'? That should drop the
whole discussion. Dems should be calling for a discussion
of bush's medals.

[davhill]

23. Was he even awarded a good conduct medal?

[koopie57]

47. no, but he did get

a sticker for being a good boy in the dentist chair. I guess he wore it for a week and threw a temper tantrum when he had to take it off to shower.

[maddezmom]

48. bet he also got to keep his Pom-poms from cheerleading n/t

[Iceburg]

36. "I watched Kerry throw his war decorations"

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/04/27/i_watched_kerry_throw_his_war_decorations/

If you have any doubts whatsoever read this

[symbolman]

42. Here's the Ads I have offered publicly for FREE to the Kerry people

When I was in New Hampshire----

While I talked to them I gave them one of my Take Back the Media business cards and told them that ARMY OF ONE was running on cable TV during the Primaries 3000 times and that it was just the ticket for Mr Kerry to kick Bush's ass a few of the major military issues.

I offered the ad FREE OF CHARGE to the Kerry team - told Teresa and "Marvelous Marvin" that it was THEIRS if they wanted it.

NOW I'm seeing commercials run by Bush that use nearly the same messages to Trash Kerry. The right wing smear machine is all over Kerry's illustrious and noble military career and it's sickening to watch. The Bush people have no message but FEAR and have to denigrate an actual HERO to try and re-steal the White House.

SO, I'm livid and I want to throw my full support behind Mr John Kerry, but I've been out of the political loop for a few months (moving, trying to make ends meet, etc) so I have no Contact information for the Kerry crew, and I want to get some facetime with Teresa, or someone near to the top. I met their campaign manager, or one of them and was blown off and that soured me a bit, so I need to get to someone that's is willing to take an honest look at what I do and what I'm good and and potentially USE some of my material.

HERE are 15 of what I consider my Best flash movies. They've been seen willie-nillie on the web (some have been slayed in the LATIMES, National Review, etc) - linked on Michaelmoore.com, Howardstern.com and many more Great sites. One of them has been downloaded nearly a million times - I'll let you guess which one, but one clue would be to say that the GERMANS Loved it. :)

"Bush is Not a Nazi - So Stop Saying That.."
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

"ARMY OF ONE"
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html
or VIEW the 30 second TV ad
here: http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/11_small.shtml

"Murder By Numbers"
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/murderby.html

"CondoLIESa"
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/condosleeza.html

"ChickenHawk - Hall of Shame"
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/chickenhawks.html

"Triumph of the Wimp"
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/triwimp.html

"Pentagoon"
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/pentagoon2.html


I'm not beating my drum here, these are available for everyone to view (if you haven't seen some of them, then here is your chance)

But mainly this is a plea to anyone that views this page to CONTACT the Kerry Team and help them make use of some of my work and style - I'm offering these works for FREE use by them - we need to get the Beasts out of OUR Precious White House.

The ARMY OF ONE ad comes in 30 and 60 seconds flavors and is already Vetted by the cable companies.

[calimary]

43. About bleepin' time!

[dArKeR]

49. Vietnam: Did GOP Pick Wrong Fight? - CBS

By David Paul Kuhn,
CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer

John Kerry headed a swift boat along the Mekong Delta, was shot at by Vietcong guerillas, saw his men hit, earned three Purple Hearts for combat wounds and upon his return became an ardent antiwar activist.

Republicans have gone after this biography. Kerry says they picked the wrong fight.

Two aspects of Kerry’s Vietnam history have come under scrutiny. The first is his injuries, which by his own admission, consisted mainly of shrapnel wounds.

Second, at the height of his fervor in protesting the Vietnam War, in the spring of 1971, Kerry joined about 800 veterans in throwing away some of their military decorations or dog tags. Kerry has always said he only tossed ribbons. But a television interview surfaced this week from 1971 where he claimed that he also threw his medals. He had also won a Bronze and Silver Star for his service.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/politics/main614079.shtml

This isn't the issue. The issue is/are the immoral fraudulent lying GOP American media moles who are falsing attacking Kerry (and other Democratic issues/people). Now is the time for some Democrat to get a spine and attempt to file RICO charges against the Media's Board of Directors.

(Does anyone have the pic which shows the 7 media companies. I thought it used to go to http://www.whatliberalmedia.com/ Eric's site but now I don't see the like there.)