New Iraqi Flag Meets With Public Disapproval

[Chicago Democrat]

New Iraqi Flag Meets With Public Disapproval

By Pamela Constable
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, April 26, 2004; 1:03 PM


BAGHDAD, April 26 -- It was supposed to be the perfect symbol for a new and unified Iraq: an Islamic crescent on a field of pure white, with two blue stripes representing the Tigris and Euphrates rivers and a third yellow stripe to symbolize the country's Kurdish minority.



But the new national flag, presented Monday after an artistic competition sponsored by the Iraqi Governing Council, appears to have met with widespread public disapproval here -- in part because of its design and in part because of the increasing unpopularity of the U.S.-appointed council.

In interviews in several Baghdad neighborhoods, a variety of residents expressed strong negative reactions to the flag, which was reproduced in most daily newspapers. In particular, people objected to the pale blue color of the crescent and stripes, saying it was identical to the dominant color in the flag of Israel, a Jewish state.

"When I saw it in the newspaper, I felt very sad," said Muthana Khalil, 50, a supermarket owner in Saadoun, a commercial area in central Baghdad. "The flags of other Arab countries are red and green and black. Why did they put in these colors that are the same as Israel? Why was the public opinion not consulted?"



rest at...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43438-2004Apr26.html

[Joanne98]

1. BWHAAAAAAAAAAA

They just can't do anything right. Somebody wondered earlier if they'd noticed the blue (Israel) color. I guess they did. What a stupid idea.

[Chicago Democrat]

3. Im am laughing out loud! this is unbelievable...

Could this possibly be more funny!

[saigon68]

45. THE FIRST VICEROY OF IRAQ-NAM



THE FIRST VICEROY OF IRAQ-NAM

Viceroy Pontius Paul Bremer I

announced that more former members of Saddam's military would be allowed to join the ranks of the new US-trained army because of the poor performance of the Iraqi forces during rebel attacks.(AFP/Pool/File/Damir Sagolj)



His hand picked puppet government in April in the Year of our Lord 2004, created a new flag for the 51st state of the AmeriKan States of North AmeriKa NA

[Chicago Democrat]

2. Gee it really does look like the Israeli Flag, what boneheads!

Not suprising the Iraqis hate is already and its been out only 3 hours.

[IndianaGreen]

52. They also took the name of God out of Iraq's flag

which had the first verse of the Holy Qur'an in it.

Using language that Americans understand, this is like having a foreign occupation power replace the stars and stripes with some stupid flag that has no red, white, and blue in it, and then removing "In God We Trust" from our currency, and taking "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance.

Who thought of this shit? Chalabi? This is even too stupid for him!

[lostnfound]

69. "Under God" good; "God is Greatest" bad.

These are the kids who didn't learn everything they needed to know in kindergarten.

[cyclezealot]

4. Whose Idea is this?

Maybe the Iraqi people feel there is no need to replace the flag at all? it was the National flag before the U.S. installed Sadam in the 50's....?

[Minstrel Boy]

They want to erase Iraq's history, and Iraqis' sense of nation.

The only change Saddam made to the flag was the addition of the arabic text. It isn't enough simply to remove that, because they don't want Iraqis to have Iraq.

[Karenina]

32. And THAT is the reason

the museum was pillaged. ERASE the historical trail that might contradict the NWO story line. What was that about replacing the American archivist again??? :shrug:

[Minstrel Boy]

41. You know it.

Burn the libraries, pillage the museums. Your past is erased; your future is ours. It's Year Zero.

It's not "nation-building", except in the Pol Pot sense. It's psyops to break a people's spirit.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. Nope, Iraq's flag was always

some design in red, green, black and white.

http://flagspot.net/flags/iq_kingd.html

It did change 4 or 5 times from 1920 to 1963, but those were always the colours - like other Arab flags.

[Gothmog]

5. Too close to the Israeli Flag

The flag does look very similar to the Israeli flag. This is just one more stupid decision by the Bushies.

[Jacobin]

6. Tell me this is from The Onion.........Puhleeeeze!!

The morons running this thing need a new theme song.......the one from the Three Stooges.

Ah yes, Iraq as an outpost of Israel. That's the ticket!!!!

[Chicago Democrat]

11. No dear, this is the dream, you're back in front of the firing squad

:)

[Art_from_Ark]

54. A memorable line from Monty bu$h's Iraqinam Tour

[rkc3]

7. Flag?

I thought the flag would have a swastika on it?

[Richardo]

8. Here's a photo - get one soon! It's bound to be a collector's item...

As soon as the new "sovereign" government trashes it and readopts the old one. :eyes:



Plus here's a link to Al-Jazeera for their take... http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/94E338BA-2CAF-4267-A9FC-5C425A108CE1.htm

(If Al-Jazeera is biased, based on this innocuous report, what does that make Fox?)

[Blasphemer]

9. That is an ugly flag....

I don't blame them for hating it. Ugh!

[1monster]

14. Heck, I could have done better than that!

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I43584-2004Apr26

Hmm... why won't the picture show up here?

[Tinoire]

10. Unbelievable!

As my good friend Ductapfatwa put it:

I imagine this flag is just a demo to get people used to the blue and white, no doubt the release candidate will have a star of David, and maybe a little silhouette of an Arab in chains.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chicago Democrat]

56. Thank you for making me laugh!

I love you man, you are always on the kool side of things.

[truthisfreedom]

12. either this is more ridiculous buffoonery, or it's a calculated plan by

bushco and the neo-cons to generate more hatred in Iraq for US occupation, so they can perpetuate there infinite war and drive us closer to WWIII, which is really what they want, since bush's family has ALWAYS profited from war and always will.

[greenleaf]

42. Now im convinced

that you're right, the neo-cons plan this as adding insult to injury.
Salting the wound.Running pigs through the holy shrine, etc.

When the man in the article says; "When I saw it in the newspaper, I felt very sad," I think he meant he was 'furious'.

Shit now ive got some idiot in the next appartment using a drill and he/she stops and starts you know without seeming purpose so i dont know how long its going to keep up , i think im finnaly loosing it.

[74dodgedart]

13. How about a black dollar sign on a white field..

[Lindacooks]

48. That's perfect!

maybe with a little blood and oil dripping from the dollar sign...

[Rex]

15. Holy Bat Eguano! How can these people be so stupid?!?!

They should have gone with the one American Big Biz wanted!

[Tinoire]

20. Lol! That's about it! Jay Garner was fired for those Corporations

Jay Garner, first administrator of post-war Iraq, has revealed that he was fired because he wanted to hold elections while the Bush administration wanted him, first, to open the doors to American corporations.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1082844619660&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. The colors of the Iraqi flag has been consistent in the last 80 years,

.
.
.

Since 1920, the main colors of the Iraqi flags have always been black, red, and green on white.

Amazing how a couple of them have a resemblance to Enron's symbol!

These are arranged chronologically from 1920 to present, excluding the USA's "new" flag. I hope the people at least get a say in their FLAG. We already know that they have no say in much else.



















http://www.1uptravel.com/flag/flags/iq-index.html

[Minstrel Boy]

44. Thanks for posting those.

The historical context makes this looks even more provocative.

[SidDithers]

46. If it's not too late to edit, put the new one in too...

It'll make for a nice contrast.

Sid

[ConcernedCanuk]

49. *ahem* - I purposely left it out- it's NOT an Iraqi flag - it's a USA flag

.
.
.

They should leave the flag alone,

let the "Free" Iraqis decide whether or not to change it after the USA is gone.

Heck, the army's going to be running their country anyways,

if the USA wants to be honest about it,

why not just put up the same flag they draped over Saddam's statue just before thy pulled it down?

THAT's the flag the USA REALLY wants to see over Iraq.

Then suck the oil out of the Iraqi's sand to feed the ever growing War-Machine of the BFEE et al.

I'm past fear and anger regarding the USA Administration.

It's just pure disgust now.

. :mad: .

[markses]

17. There's a fucking surprise....

:eyes:

[Amaya]

18. This is utterly pathetic....

Did they actually think the Iraqi people would like a new flag?? :wtf:

edit: for spelling

[regnaD kciN]

19. A classic quote...

"This flag represents the democracy and freedom of the new Iraq, where the old one represented killing and oppression and dictatorship," he said.

Yep...the standard traditional colors of Muslim nation's flags represent "killing and oppression." They must be changed to the colors of Israel's flag, for that represents "democracy and freedom." Who came up with this idea: Pearle, Wolfowicz, Abrams, or Negroponte? :puke:


"We are not imposing this flag on the people; it was chosen by the legitimate representatives of Iraq."

And yet one more..."legitimate representatives of Iraq" equals "commission imposed on the Iraqi people by America." A little Vichy water, anyone?

:grr:

[Tinoire]

26. Yep But don't forget Pipes. "Neocons Seek Islamic 'Reformation' "

Neocons Seek Islamic 'Reformation'

by Jim Lobe
April 8, 2004


Picture of the racist ass Daniel Pipes


One thing that can be said about U.S. neo-conservatives is they do not lack for ambition. "We need an Islamic reformation," Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz confided on the eve of the US invasion of Iraq last year, "and I think there is real hope for one."

Echoing those views one year later, another prominent neo-conservative, Daniel Pipes of the Philadelphia-based Middle East Forum (MEF), recently declared that the "ultimate goal" of the war on terrorism had to be Islam's modernization, or, as he put it, "religion-building."

Such an effort needs to be waged not only in the Islamic world, geographically speaking, added Pipes, who last year was appointed by President George W. Bush to the board of directors of the US Institute for Peace (USIP), but also among Muslims in the West, where, in his view, they are too often represented by "Islamist (or militant Islamic)" organizations.

Pipes is currently seeking funding for a new organization, tentatively named the "Islamic Progress Institute" (IPI), which "can articulate a moderate, modern and pro-American viewpoint" on behalf of US Muslims and that, according to a grant proposal by Pipes and two New York-based foundations obtained by IPS, can "go head-to-head with the established Islamist institutions."

<snip>

Within the United States, "all Muslims, unfortunately, are suspect," Pipes wrote in a recent book, which called for the authorities to be especially vigilant towards Muslims with jobs in the military, law enforcement, or diplomacy.

<snip>

Pipes is also the founder of Campus Watch, a group that monitors university professors of Middle Eastern and Islamic studies and exposes them for alleged anti-American or anti-Zionist views.

<snip>

http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=2273

=============

Any minute now the defenders of Daniel Pipe will pop up from the dungeon to once again convince us that we mis-understand this brave man.

[robertpaulsen]

21. Unveiling the design on Israel's 56th birthday was STOOPID!!!

It does sound like something out of The Onion. Can their heads be any farther up their asses?!

[Tinoire]

34. OMG. That's insult upon injury upon insult etc.. War began on Purim too.

The war was also launched on the Jewish holiday Purim. I don't think the Iraqis are missing any of this.


CRISIS IN IRAQ
For rabbis, it’s no coincidence
war on Iraq again linked to Purim
By Joe Berkofsky



NEW YORK, March 18 (JTA) — Purim celebrates the ancient Jewish victory over evil in Persia, but this year it also signaled war against Iraq. Few Jewish leaders and thinkers failed to hear the historic echoes.

<snip>

Schorsch, who called Iraq “a paper tiger that we have turned into a mortal enemy” despite greater threats from countries such as North Korea, was not alone in drawing historic parallels between Purim and the Iraq war.

Others drew very different lessons.

Blu Greenberg, an Orthodox feminist leader based in New York, supports the Bush administration’s campaign against Iraq as a “preventive war,” much as the ancient Jews defended themselves against Haman’s plot to destroy them.

<snip>

Conservative Rabbi Mark Diamond, executive vice president of the Board of Rabbis of Southern California, posted an online d’var Torah, or interpretation of the Torah, linking Purim and the war.

Diamond timed his writing for Shabbat Zachor, the Sabbath before Purim, when Jews are told both to remember their ancient enemy Amalek and not to forget him.

<snip>

http://jta.org/page_view_story.asp?strwebhead=Rabbis%3A+Purim%2C+Iraq+war+linked&intcategoryid=5

Fascinating article in its entirety. Wish I had not had to snip it.

[0007]

22. Will John Ashcroft write the Iraq National Anthem?

[markses]

24. I believe Mel Gibson has composed some lyrics in Aramaic

Arabic, Aramaic...wassa difference? he was heard to say. ;-)

[0007]

25. Ashcroft can sing in Arabic, so that'll work.

[rocktivity]

63. Ashcroft has already written the Iraqi national anthem

Warning: this link contains material that may not be suitable for music fans.

:headbang:
rocknation

[IndianaGreen]

64. and like a damned idiot I had to click on the link!

I am still puking from the experience!

I think William Hung has more talent than our insane Attorney General.

[stellanoir]

23. they should have kept the old flag

or a slight variation of it. The Iraqi people have other slightly more pressing priorities. . .like security, water, electricity, jobs.

But this group of idiots are trying to shove something they have an adversarial relationship to, down their throats.

They forget that these people, unlike the sheeple here, know propaganda when they see it.

I'm adding this to my extensive list of innumerable idiocies which will be entitled. . .

"A Neocon's guide to winning the hearts and minds. . ."

or

"Occupations for Dummies"

[jmowreader]

28. They're not using Modern Technological Equipment here

The state of the Computerized Embroidery Field is such that a very complex flag can be created and reproduced easily.

The New Iraqi Flag, Really!, now that the New Iraqi Flag has been seen and rejected by every Iraqi who's even slightly less tied to the American government than Chalabi, will be as follows: On a light blue background, portraits of Dick Cheney (left), George W. Bush (center) and Condoleezza Rice (right) will be centered vertically. Below their portraits will be the Hebrew words for "it's our oil now, deal with it."

In the upper left corner will be the Halliburton logo. In the upper right corner will be the Diebold logo. And in the lower corners will be printed the recipes for Sarin gas and nitrogen mustard, and a list of suppliers for the ingredients, along with the Arabic words for "will one of you fuckers get off your ass and make some of this then tell us where you put it, so we can find it and get reelected? Our citizens are starting to catch on."

[AlCzervik]

29. This is the one

i made, i thought it truly represented the country.

[koopie57]

35. Perfect, except for one

change you might want to consider. Instead of the stars, put pictures of Bush, Rumsfeld and Asscroft and then in English say "heil to our fearless unificator"

[AlCzervik]

38. I thought about that

but the problem was that i would have to shrunk their heads down so much you wouldnt be able to see it, i made this for bartcop so you have to keep your graphic to a managble size for them. But, maybe i'll give it try.

[rocktivity]

31. WHAT IN ALLAH'S NAME IS GOING ON OVER THERE?

"When I saw it in the newspaper, I felt very sad...Why did they put in these colors that are the same as Israel? Why was the public opinion not consulted?"
--Muthana Khalil, a supermarket owner in central Baghdad

"...The old (flag) represent(s) killing and oppression and dictatorship...We are not imposing this flag on the people...When a new national assembly is elected, it can decide whether to keep it or change it."
--Hamid Kifaie, spokesman for the Iraqi Governing Council

This encapsulates what's so WRONG with the Bush White House. The Iraqis don't have water or electricity or cheap oil or jobs or explosion-less nights. But has the Governing Council been knocking themselves out to solve these problems? No, they've been knocking themselves out to come up with a new flag! And did they present the public with some finalists and invite them to decide? No, they picked the one that runs Israeli flag colors and dropped it in their laps! WHO TAUGHT THESE PEOPLE HOW TO SET PRIORITIES--TONYA HARDING?

This is why Dave Letterman ended the Yawning Kid Incident by saying, "When you cast your vote in November, just remember that the (Bush) White House was trying to make ME look like a dope!" These people just can't seem to come up with anything better to do!

:headbang:
rocknation

[alcuno]

37. It's a deathly sitcom.

The US is becoming a big bad joke throughout the world. Pathetic.

[Lisa]

36. how vexillogically vexing!

But seriously -- color symbolism is VERY important, not just in Mideast cultures either. The similarity to the Israeli flag is probably a show-stopper -- that and the omission of red/green/black. If you look at the flags of the other countries in the region, it has the effect of isolating Iraq. It's so radically different from the earlier Iraqi flags (thanks to the person who posted them as an example!) that I would be very surprised if anybody over there approves. Canada changed its flag about 40 years ago, in a time of peace and prosperity, and people are still griping about it. I can't even imagine what this type of heavyhandedness is going to do in Iraq, where there are so many more things that need attention.

In short, not a good idea.

[Tinoire]

39. The Brits- more sensitive 2 local culture than the illiterate buffoons

we rely one, are very adamantly distancing themselves from this one.

Their papers seem to be deliberately emphasizinz that it was a US-appointed council did this.

Oh George, you went and did it now!

Iraq's US-appointed Governing Council has approved a new national flag for the embattled country, officials said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3660663.stm

Iraq’s US picked leaders approved a new flag for the country
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2841565

[lazarus]

40. Here's the three for comparison

The old flag:


The new flag:


The Israeli flag:

[daleo]

53. The concordance between the new flag and Israeli flag is pretty high

I have my doubts whether the average Israeli is keen on this either, although some right wing elements of the population may like the "in your face" attitude it seems to project.

[Ediacara]

58. I should point out that

As well as having design elements in common with Israel's flag, it's also similar to the flags of Northern Cyprus:


and Uzbekistan:


But I am really pretty disturbed that it's different from almost ALL other Middle Eastern flags:


I don't know about you, but I see some common thematic elements....

[Streetdoc270]

62. The colors have great symbolism

"Origin of the Pan-Arab Colors
From the PASSIA home page:

Red
The Khawarij were the first Islamic group to emerge after the assassination of Caliph Uthman III, forming the first republican party in the early days of Islam. Their symbol was the red flag. Arab tribes who participated in the conquest of North Africa and Andalusia carried the red flag, which became the symbol of the Islamic rulers of Andalusia (756-1355).
In modern times, red symbolizes the Ashrafs of the Hijaz and the Hashemites, descendants of the Prophet.
Green: The Fatimid Dynasty (909-1171), North Africa
The Fatimid Dynasty was founded in Morocco by Abdullah Al-Mahdi, and went on rule all of North Africa. They took green as their color, to symbolize their allegiance to Ali, the Prophet's cousin, who was once wrapped in a green coverlet in place of the Prophet in order to thwart an assassination attempt.
White: The Umayyad Dynasty (661-750), Damascus
The Umayyads ruled for ninety years, taking white as their symbolic color as a reminder of the Prophet's first battle at Badr, and to distinguish themselves from the Abbasids, by using white, rather than black, as their color of mourning. Mu'awia Ibn Abi Sufian (661-750), founder of the Umayyad state, proclaimed himself Caliph of Jerusalem.
Black: The Prophet Mohammad (570-632)
In the seventh century, with the rise of Islam and subsequent liberation of Mecca, two flags - one white, one black - were carried. On the white flag was written, "There is no god but God (Allah) and Mohammad is the Prophet of God."
In pre-Islamic times, the black flag was a sign of revenge. It was the color of the headdress worn when leading troops into battle. Both black and white flags were placed in the mosque during Friday prayers.
The Abbasid Dynasty (750-1258), ruling from Baghdad, took black as a symbol of mourning for the assassination of relatives of the Prophet and in remembrance of the Battle of Karbala. "

Changing the flag could be a big mistake there is a lot of meaning behind the arabic flags, this is just asking for trouble....

[happyslug]

59. Compared to this one:

Given all the WHITE in the flag (a color most countries try to avoid):

[flaminbats]

67. A blue moon and a yellow streak?

What does this signify about the flag's supporters?

[peacetalksforall]

43. At t east tepid, eggshell walking NPR said it stronger than the WP...

Ann Gerols of NPR (spelling?) had a much more definitive report on the negative reaction.

She listed every objection to the colors and choices and the FACT that it was imposed on them.

And she started if off with - asking the listener to consider someone coming in to our country and changing the stars and stripes.

Here's a crook, Chalabi, who has lived in luxury outside and is wanted in other countries and is a pimp for Cheney and PNAC and he is telling them what they're flag is going to be - between neighbors getting killed and between hauling water.

This is too bizarre. To know that the United States of America is responsible for this kind of madness is something I never thought possible.

[Barkley]

47. We've changed their leader, their currency & their flag, what's next?

English as the official language?
A new Iraqi National Anthem?
Leaving OPEC?

I can't wait until we re-write their history books.

[ConcernedCanuk]

50. OH, you haven't seen the map on King George's dream wall?

.
.
.

Gotta re-divide and re-name a few things !



.
.

[NuttyFluffers]

66. blond hair dye and skin bleach

and blue eye contacts.

then give a bible for each person and then america will feel our job of civilizing them is complete.

/sarcasm (but is it true?)

[number6]

51. as the bungling continues...

:shrug:

[gate of the sun]

55. I was just making a joke last week suggesting they were going

to do this. How disrespectful. I think that of course is the intention to undermine the Iraqi's by taking away all there rights. Some democracy. Some freedom.

[wabeewoman]

57. Here is Riverbend's take on it...

I also heard today that the Puppets are changing the flag. It looks nothing like the old one and at first I was angry and upset, but then I realized that it wouldn't make a difference. The Puppets are illegitimate, hence their constitution is null and void and their flag is theirs alone. It is as representative of Iraq as they are- it might as well have "Made in America" stitched along the inside seam. It can be their flag and every time we see it, we'll see Chalabi et al. against its pale white background.

My email buddy and fellow Iraqi S.A. in America said it best in her email, "I am sure we are all terribly excited about the extreme significance of the adoption by the completely illegitimate Iraq Puppet Council of a new national piece of garishly colored cloth. Of course the design of the new national rag was approved by the always tastefully dressed self-declared counter terrorism expert viceroy of Iraq, Paul Bremer, who is well known for wearing expensive hand-stitched combat boots with thousand dollar custom tailored suits and silk designer ties.
The next big piece of news will be the new pledge of allegiance to said national rag, and the empire for which it stands. The American author of said pledge has yet to be announced."

For the coming national anthem, may I suggest Chalabi, Allawi, Hakeem and Talbani in a gaudy, Iraqi version of "Lady Marmalade"?
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

[Kinkistyle]

60. The usage of the Israeli colors was INTENTIONAL.

I fully believe that they INTENDED to make the flag colors close to Israel. Perhaps because in their simplistic childlike way, the Neo-cons thought that it would be a first step in binding Iraq with Israel in some sort of demented "friendship", or more perhaps they wanted to appease the Israeli government and pro-Israeli factions in the States.

[rocktivity]

61. It meets with public disapproval, all right

:headbang:
rocknation

[DianeG5385]

65. So when do the Israelies start "settling in Iraq?"

I have this big worry that Israel is the silent player in this war and there even be an angle to settle a foreign well armed culture in Iraq to create a new class of Palestinian. I fear I am not far off the mark.

[leftchick]

68. ooooh looky! They are burning their new Flag Already!!!

See how well this is going?!?..... Idiots!




Iraqis burn a homemade flag with the design of their country's new flag in the besieged city of Falluja, April 27, 2004. U.N. senior adviser Lakhdar Brahimi warned Iraq (news - web sites)'s U.S.-led administration that an armed confrontation with insurgents in Falluja would lead to major bloodshed and long-lasting consequences. Photo by Akram Saleh/Reuters

[lostnfound]

70. self-deleted.

[leftchick]

71. yep, this stupid flag idea is NOT going over well...

yet another assinine US idea...



Iraqi university students look up towards a massive copy of their country's flag draped over a campus in the northern city of Mosul April 28, 2004, while demonstrating against the announcement of Iraq (news - web sites)'s Governing Council adopting a new national flag. The new flag consists of a pale blue crescent on a white background and has a yellow strip between two lines of blue at the bottom. REUTERS/Namir Noor-Eldeen

[LibInternationalist]

72. Can someone photoshop a red black and green version of the new flag?

same design, new colors? -- should be very easy, I just don't have the software