U.S. pulls troops back from brink in Najaf

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040420-102647-4114r

BAGHDAD, Iraq, April 20 (UPI) -- U.S. troops began to withdraw from a base near the city of Najaf Monday, signaling an unwillingness to enter the Shiite holy city in pursuit of radical cleric Moqtada Sadr, whose militia the U.S.-led coalition has vowed to crush, and to capture the rebel cleric "dead or alive."

Some 2,500 U.S. Army soldiers encircled the home of the holiest shrine of Shiite Islam last week after Sadr -- who also faces murder charges for the death of a rival cleric last year -- openly defied U.S. occupation authorities and let his Mehdi Army fight coalition troops in Baghdad and several southern Iraqi cities.

Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, told the 3rd Brigade Task Force that the withdrawal was intended to ease tensions with Iraq's 60 percent Shiite population.

"The problem of Sadr is bigger than Sadr. It is the whole Shiite community and the holy shrine," Sanchez said. "We have just about eliminated all his influence across the south."

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[pinniped]

1. Is murder like a major crime in Iraq?

?

[LittleApple81]

2. What about Basra? It is not in the south? It did not happen? n/t

[hang a left]

5. I noticed that too.

"The problem of Sadr is bigger than Sadr. It is the whole Shiite community and the holy shrine," Sanchez said. "We have just about eliminated all his influence across the south."

[markus]

3. Eliminated?

Is this some sort of newspeak, or does it mean whan I think it does in a good, old fashioned Dean Rusk sort of way?

Who else are we "eliminating" in Iraq, and how specifically does this differ (except perhaps in scale) from the mass graves of Saddam?

[NNN0LHI]

4. Something tells me Bush is scared of Sadr n/t

[hang a left]

7. As he should be.

n/t

[mhr]

6. "We have just about eliminated all his influence across the south."

Oh Really!

[0007]

9. Is everybody on the same page?

Very interesting statement, 'eh?

[Judi Lynn]

8. General Ricardo Sanchez's so bright! We are blessed.

"The real center of mess is right here," Sanchez said. "The problem is that if we launch you into the city of Najaf and we get you into a major firefight. And if we get into destroying the holy shrines, it will create a backlash."


Sanchez or Einstein?

[Dhalgren]

10. "We have just about eliminated all his influence across the south."

Oh, yeah, that's right. The "Mehdi Army" has kicked US ass all over the place. The Marines are backed down in Faluja, the Army is retreating from Najaf, the Brits got their asses handed to them in Basra - yeah this has been a great US victory, all right. Man when even these Army pukes start this Orwellian crap, Eric Blair must be spinning in his grave (or laughing his ass off).

[NNN0LHI]

11. I have been waiting for the "they have been eviscerated" line again n/t

[Dhalgren]

16. The convolutions of these people's thinking

never ceases to amaze me! Here's one: "The killers in Faluja are terrorists." "We don't negotiate with terrorists." "We are negotiating a truce in Faluja, in order to stop the fighting." "It's a rat's nest." Evidently, we not only negotiate with "terrorists", we also negotiate with "rats".

[Vladimir]

26. Why not?

after all, a rat is more articulate than most of the US leadership. I back the rat to give a competent press conference for one...

[psychopomp]

24. I disagree with your take on Basra

The Brits did not bear the brunt of the Basra blasts; it was the Iraqi people who were hurt and killed. In other words, so-called soft targets were hit, not the British armed forces.

Those attacks are not preventable in Iraq for the forseeable future. This is just the type of chaos that Poppy wanted to avoid in GW1.

[Dhalgren]

27. I wasn't just talking about the bombings today.

I was talking about how the Brits have lost all control in the city over the last two weeks and are, essentially, staying off the streets.

[psychopomp]

28. I had not heard it the Basra situation had deteriorated so much

It is difficult to keep track of a war while holding down a day job, all in real-time.

[Dhalgren]

30. Tell me about it!

And it gets harder everyday. There hasn't been alot of media coverage on Basra - not very many 'merikans there. But the situation there is as shaky as it has ever been. Even today, with the bombings, people were in the streets blaming the Brits for the security meltdown. The whole country is a tenderbox, a timebomb - and no one seems to care.

[Go Eagles]

12. Things don't look good at all

This sounds like a major victory for Sadr. His militia coordinated and overran coalition forces in Baghdad and Najaf, he openly defied the US and caused them back down, during moves against Fallujah and Najaf, there was great deal of coordination in hitting coalition supply lines, members of the coalition of the willing continue to drop out and the offensive against Fallujah has come to a stand still. To escalate things, a Kurdish security force was brought into Fullajuh which will only escalate ethnic tensions. What it the temperatures like in Iraq about now? I'm sure it is not long before it gets about 130 degrees and the troops will have a great time fighting in the heat and dust with all that armor against guerrillas who are conditioned to such temperatures.

[Beetwasher]

13. Correct. Chalk up a MAJOR Victory for the Resistance

They just won a couple of battles. Guess what happens now? Lot's more people will rally to the cause that will now be seen as taking on Goliath and holding their own. Recruitment just SKYROCKETTED, bank on it.

[Goldmund]

14. What are you guys talking about?

Do you think it would be better if they (the US military) decided to just go into Najaf and repeat the Fallujah atrocity???

[Beetwasher]

17. No

I didn't say that at all. Don't put words in my mouth. Just because I'm discussing the reality of the situation doesn't mean I approve or dissapprove of any given action or non-action. I'm merely pointing out the consequences. The point I made is the reality of the situation whether we like it or not. That doesn't mean I think troops should have entered the city and committed a slaughter.

[Goldmund]

20. I understand, BUT

the consequences of going INTO Najaf would have been far worse, and recruitment would be skyrocketing even more, and even more people would be "rallying to the cause".

Of course, there is no good course of action here, this "war" is by definition a clusterfuck. But decisions like this one -- pulling back from Najaf -- aren't the reason we are in the position we're in. Had there been more decisions in this spirit, we wouldn't be in Iraq now.

[Go Eagles]

22. that's not what I suggested

I agree with all your points and I was not suggesting stepping up action against Fallujah or going into Najaf. It was to point out that this whole thing is a disaster and that our administration and military is lying when it is obvious they don't have a grasp on the situation and our our forces are losing.

[Beetwasher]

29. Again, I Never Suggested Anything

Or any course of action nor am a judging any action as better or worse. Just pointing out that this WILL be viewed as a victory for the resistance and that is VERY good for their cause. How I feel about that is irrelevant.

[Dhalgren]

18. Absolutely not! What is being said is that the US is losing the

"war" in Iraq, but no one is willing to admit it. If the Marines could have taken Faluja, they would have. Maybe even Proconcul Bremer isn't stupid enough to enter Najaf. These are US loses, nothing else.

[saigon68]

23. Sadr better hide his wheel chair better

I think they have something else planned for him.

A Mark-84 Paveway with his name on it.

[robertpaulsen]

32. Wow! Kurdish security in Fallujah?! Do you have a link?

I hadn't heard about this, but it sounds like something the U.S. would do. I believe the U.S. is trying to instigate a civil war, now that they see how much shit they have to deal with when tribes unite to fight a common enemy. If Sunnis and Shiites can't disagree, then sending the Kurds to fight the Sunnis sounds like the perfect antidote for the BFEE.

[David__77]

15. The Pentagon House of Waffles: "Sadr? Sadr who?"

They have served to increase his stature by proving that armed uprising is what garners respect and power.

[rocktivity]

19. Translation:

"We're retreating because if we don't we'll get our asses kicked--literally AND politically."

:headbang:
rocknation

[psychopomp]

21. Look for the bombs to drop anyway

The military is being commanded by maniacs (Dumbya/Myers/Kimmet):mad:

[Dhalgren]

25. I'm afraid you may be right.

This bunch of no good scum sucking neocon murders are only limited in their evil by their imbecility.
What will the Emperor do? With Rove saying "don't do it", and Wolfowitz saying "bull-doze their houses", and K.K.Kimmit saying "kill'em all", and Rummy in the corner, clutching his knees, screaming at the tops of his lungs, what will the little Emperor do?

[Aidoneus]

31. Bottom line: Sadr wins Round 2

The invaders ran from Madinat al-Sadr in Baghdad after a series of skirmishes, now running from Najaf even before the battle begins..