Georgia Executes Troy Davis After His Last Plea Fails ('I Am Innocent')

[Hissyspit]

Source: NBC News

Georgia executes Troy Davis after his last pleas fail

Last-ditch appeals, calls for clemency don't stop lethal injection of convicted cop killer

JACKSON, Ga. — Troy Davis was put to death by lethal injection late Wednesday for the 1989 murder of an off-duty police officer, maintaining his innocence until the end after convincing thousands of it, but not the justice system.

- snip -

His execution came after a three-hour hold while the Supreme Court considered a late request for a stay. In the end the court refused to stop the execution, despite calls for clemency from former President Jimmy Carter, Pope Benedict XVI and others.

Davis' attorneys say seven of nine key witnesses against him recanted all or parts of their testimony, state and federal judges repeatedly ruled against granting him a new trial.

Media witnesses said that on his death bed, Davis told the family of the slain officer that he was very sorry for their loss but that he wasn't responsible his death. He asked his family and supporters to keep working on the case after his death.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44592285/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.Tnqopuv4bqE

---

Troy Davis Final Statement per Democracy Now live coverage:

To McPail Family: "I want to address the McPhail family. I did not take your son, father, brother. I am innocent. I did not have a gun that night..."

To His Family: "Keep digging further into this case."

To Executioners: "May God have mercy on your souls. May God bless your souls."

[yardwork]

1. This is horrible.

[Mr Deltoid]

2. This is America

Sad, isnt it?

[dogmoma56]

99. 7of 9 witnesses recant, #8 is dead, #9 could be the Perp. death penaltys a Blood Sacrifice for votes

it is a promise to kill people in custody if elected, the poor, the colored the financially disenfranchised by their god, Capitalism.

this is proof that GOP psychotically adhears to a repeatedly failed ideology that righteously kills people.

this is proof the GOP is a bunch of Malignant Psychotic Narcissists.. they will just as easily pass legislation that will kill you or yours, or righteously torture anyone who they feel doubts them.

history is repeating itself..

[TBF]

117. Not just the GOP - the SCOTUS was unanimous. nt

[gateley]

3. Heartbreaking. nt

[Mnemosyne]

4. "god bless america"? Why??? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

120. I haven't a clue was to why.

:shrug:


United States of Death, Inc.

[dogmoma56]

226. dont forget the Pledge forced on children.. "With Liberty and Justice FOR ALL..!!" except for poor

and collored

[tropicanarose]

5. God help us all. This is SICK and a real tragedy. Georgia just murdered an innocent man.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

6. Just because someone wanted closure?

This is truly bad for everyone in the US.

[SemperEadem]

131. someone wanted to appear tough on crime so they could get votes

this was a political killing as well as an unjust murder.

meanwhile, the cop's killer is walking free.

[Blue_Tires]

142. yeah, i've been saying the same thing

KNOWINGLY executed an innocent man as not to appear "soft on crime"

[FiveGoodMen]

209. If anyone deserves the death penalty

It's whoever got the US population to substitute the word closure for the word revenge.

How many are dead because of them?

[iandhr]

7. Have a moment of silence

for the sake of this injustice. This is awful.

[Chan790]

10. I haven't spoken a word aloud since the stay was denied.

At that moment, I yelled "Fuck!" I admit it.

I also responded to a tweet from Ann Coulter because she was saying hate-filled things and called her a nasty name...but that's because she is.

[isuphighyeah]

Someone posted her blog on this subject

on a message forum that I'm on. Of course she had the facts completely twisted. She never let that stop her.

[Firebrand Gary]

8. Sure hope all parties who were involved in this decision ponder it

For the rest of their lives.

[duhneece]

9. There was too much doubt

I don't know if he was innocent or not, but I know there was too much doubt. I know that executing one innocent man is one too many.

[qanda]

11. So sad! RIP Troy Davis

:(

[nolabear]

12. *sigh* Rest in Peace, man.

And I hope the rest of us don't until this barbarism is a thing of the past.

[Smilo]

13. I weep for Troy

.... and America.

Troy, rest in peace. My sincere condolences to the Davis family.

[Gemini Cat]

14. .

RIP Troy Davis.
Today America died another death.
:cry:

[WildEyedLiberal]

15. Makes me sick

Is life in prison REALLY so impossible for Georgia to consider when THIS MUCH DOUBT hung over the case? They needed him dead, why? To prove a fucking point? To be TUFF?

Sick, sick, sick.

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. Justice was NOT served this day ...

What frightens me is what we witnessed today is endemic to this nation ... where the perception of certaintude and decisiveness is far more important than getting things right.

We see it in our politics, we see it in our religions, we see it in our day to day interactions.

[Yon_Yonson]

21. Legalized murder is what we have here

The biggest hindrance to justice in amerika is its legal system.

[1StrongBlackMan]

41. You cannot say that enough ...

While in my 1st and 2nd (and a half) year of law school, I volunteered in the Public Defender's Office and at legal clinic. In both instances, I had similar experiences that convinced me I did not want to be a lawyer.

On my second day at the PD's Office, I was assigned to work with a new PD ... she was two years out of law school and one year in the state bar). She had 74 case files on her desk and was clearly overwhelmed. She called her mentor to seek advise on how to deal with the caseload. He came into her office, closed the door and told her to spend 2 days thoroughly reading each file. He went on to say, on the third day ... come into the office and divide the files into three piles: the first pile was to have no more than 5 or six files ... this pile was for the cases that she thought she could win, so she should fight for them; the second pile was to contain approximately 1/3 of the remaining files ... this pile was for the cases that she thought so had no hope of winning, so she shouldn't even try; the third pile was for the remaining cases ... these cases she was to try her best to get her clients to plead out. Then he told her, "And don't look back."

I withdrew from law school 9 hours short.

[coalition_unwilling]

73. That is one hell of a story. What did you do after you

withdrew from law school?

[1StrongBlackMan]

242. I left out an important ...

detail in that experience ... the mentor recommended this stratey for to reasons, first (in his order) so that she would not win at trial more than she would loss (i.e., be seen as a "big swinging @!#%"), and secondly she that she would not burn out on losing cases.

I decided that day, if I was going to be advocate, I would be an advocate that didn't care about my win/loss record. So I took a job setting up, and running, the enforcement unit of a non-profit Civil Rights agency.

[truth2power]

135. I am so sorry, BlackMan. I think that perhaps you could have made a difference,

even in a small way, if you'd become a lawyer. I fear, though, that our justice(sic) system is irredeemably broken. It's a tragedy.

I once knew a brilliant lawyer (now deceased) whom I also considered a friend. He worked with a group of us to oppose the the building of a nuclear power plant in our area, which would have been sited in what amounted to the backyard of an elementary school.

After fighting this issue for years, we finally won. The plans for a nuclear facility were scrapped. This was over 30 years ago. And while he wasn't singularly responsible for our success (TMI happened during that period of time, also), I'm convinced that his litigation efforts before the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, year after year, were a necessary factor in our win.

He passed away years ago, but I miss him still. And I remember him as an example of what the legal profession could have been. As it stands today, the NRC would probably throw his paperwork in the round file, and that would be the end of it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

243. Thanks!

Though I went to work in the Civil Rights field and did a lot of legal work, I now realize I could have done much more.

[Art_from_Ark]

55. It was really creepy reading the comments on the Yahoo news story

There certainly does seem to be a "perception of certaintude and decisiveness" which is "far more important than getting things right", to put it mildly. Even Fat Tony sees nothing with firing up "Old Sparky" on a potentially innocent person, as long as the proper procedure was followed :argh:

[WildEyedLiberal]

134. I have absolutely no idea why I still torture myself by reading Yahoo news comments

They invariably make me depressed about how stupid and heartless so many people are. I just console myself with the thought that most of them are probably paid/volunteer RNC/teabagger trolls, but even so...

[PatSeg]

151. I frequently make that mistake too

but I agree that many of them seem to be paid/volunteer trolls, as the comments come across as standard talking points. Its still depressing though.

[SkyDaddy7]

104. Georgia has fallen behind Texas in executions now that...

Rick Perry has taken executions to a whole new level so passing up just one scheduled executions would leave them one more behind.

...I live in Georgia & have grown to really hate this place...If it were not for my wife wanting to live close to her family we would be gone! I hate the thought my tax dollars went to possibly killing an innocent man...Who knows how many others?

[Swede Atlanta]

109. Yes it is......

I live in Georgia because it is where my job has taken me and because I don't think right now is the time to relocate and find another job.

The Georgia GOP is trying to out-show those Texans on who can kill the most innocent people. Trust me the people on the Georgia Pardons and Parole Board didn't even consider the request to consider clemency. I'm sure they sat around and laughed about how good it will feel to kill this "nigger" for what he did to a poor white police officer.

[russspeakeasy]

16. He was murdered by the State, because he could not afford a

a decent lawyer. And that's the end of the story.
If you are poor and convicted, you will die. If you are poor and unemployed, you go to war, if you are poor and get sick, you die.
The State committed a pre meditated murder...What are you going to do about it if you do not have access to money; the answer is, nothing....
you are going to die...:evilfrown:

[ooglymoogly]

17. This is criminal and it is sad....barbarians and fascists at the gate.

I have been warned not to drive through Georgia for the speed traps alone and you never know what will happen in the kangaroo courts of Georgia. The horror stories abound ...RIP Troy Davis, you never had a chance among Nazi's.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

19. So now they will probably find out he was innocent

all executions should stop.

[truth2power]

138. One of the things all of us could do to stop this madness is to refuse to sit

on any jury where the death penalty is a possibility.

[Pavlo]

240. How does that help anyone?

We need to sit on all juries to ensure that there is justice metered out.

[truth2power]

249. What do you mean? I'm not sure what your stance is, based on your post. But

if it became impossible to seat a jury in a death penalty case, then the death penalty would effectively be impossible to carry out.

I've served on juries twice. But both were on civil cases. If I were called to jury duty on a capital case, I'd say, during voir dire, that I'm opposed to the death penalty. I assume they'd dismiss me at that point. If not, then they risk me being responsible for a hung jury.

[Solly Mack]

20. K&R

Damn

[lonestarnot]

22. They just said on CNN that he didn't get a last meal, They didn't say whether that was his choice

or not.

[grantcart]

92. He declined and took the standard prison meal, a cheeseburger

[unapatriciated]

96. he had declined it earlier to spend time with family and supporters.

[patrice]

23. This was Wrong . . .

no words can . . .

[oNobodyo]

24. May you r.i.p. Troy,

may your story break the hearts of those that need to learn shame and may this help bring an end to this sort of horror before another innocent is put to death for the sake of empty vengeance.

[patrice]

39. Amen to that! Let some goodness come from this horror, lest the darkness of that murder

become all our own.

[jwirr]

25. This is exactly why many of us fought to end the death penalty in the

60-70s. Two reasons: possibility of executing and innocent person and because the death penalty was used more on minorities and the poor because they lacked proper legal defense in their trials. Nothing has changed.

[Mark Baker]

213. Those are both good reasons but...

to me they're irrelevant.

The death penalty is morally abhorrent. It is always wrong to kill another human being, and that's the only reason you need to ban it.

[tropicanarose]

26. Where do we go from here? We keep fighting for what is right.....the channels aren't working rop

no one ever said life was fair, but I really thought when in came down to it, that justice would be served. The system is a world class FAILURE and doesn't protect the innocent.

[izquierdista]

27. Three hour chain yanking

I'll bet Fat Tony and Slappy were yukking it up bigtime, along with NotTwue-NotTwue.

[Harry Monroe]

28. A sad day for all of us

The State of Georgia has his blood on their hands. May God have mercy on THEIR souls!! A line has been crossed here and "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" has no meaning anymore. I hope everyone involved with his execution who had the power to stop this rots and burns in Hell!!

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

29. He was not innocent

Cameron Todd Willingham was innocent. Troy Davis was a thug and a cop killer, and now he is dead. I oppose the death penalty as I have stated before, but I'm not shedding any tears for Davis. The fact that the Davis case is lumped in with other execution cases involving possibly innocent people says a lot. There was more evidence against him than many other people who have been executed. Most of the witnesses that testified against Davis knew him PERSONALLY.

People used Davis's case to make general statements against the death penalty. That's fine, but at least be intellectually honest. Choosing an obviously guilty person to make your arguments is hardly a wise idea. Willingham was and is a better choice. He was more likely than not an innocent man.

[EFerrari]

30. 7 of the 9 witnesses recanted.

No, you don't know who he was and you certainly don't know that he was guilty.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

139. Witness recantations before an execution date are more common than you think

The witnesses were LYING then or they were LYING now. If they perjured themselves because of police pressure then what made their fear evaporate weeks before one of the execution dates? Hmm? No, they testified under oath and there were not only 9 witnesses. There were dozens. And most of the important ones haven't recanted. A couple of Davis's closest friends have, and some woman who WAS NOT EVEN THERE and was like 6 when this thing went down claims she was threatened by the supposed murderer and yet that guy cannot be found. How convenient.

[The Doctor.]

145. So you're saying he was sent to death on the testimony of PROVEN liars.

Yeah, that makes fucking sense. I'm convinced. :eyes:

[NaturalHigh]

31. I agree that he was not innocent.

[The Doctor.]

146. Just because you want to believe something does not make it so.

Everyone claiming he was guilty has been asked to provide whatever evidence convinced them.

I'm guessing you have jack-but-shit as well.

Am I wrong?

... didn't think so.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

172. Cue the music

n/t

[The Doctor.]

201. You're pegged.

Ok, so I've been going back and forth and extracting what I can from you, but it didn't require any real work. You were all too eager to give it up.

You said;

"Sorry, I will save my sympathy for innocent people that have been executed, a group which in all likelihood includes Cameron Todd Willingham. Davis was convicted by a jury which included either five or seven blacks, I can't remember. Most of the witnesses were black."

"It says that if Davis were white that this case wouldn't have gotten any attention

I don't recall CNN covering Cameron Todd Willingham's case for 8 hours straight."

Yep, there it is.


You are convinced a white man is innocent because, I presume, not enough evidence exists to prove his guilt... in your opinion. You also lament how 'unfair' it is that the media won't cover him because he is white.

You are convinced a black man is guilty, but are unwilling or unable to present the evidence, excerpt, or even your own summary of whatever portion of the written legal opinion you found compelling enough to convince you of his guilt.

This has absolutely nothing to do with guilt or innocence for you at all.

It couldn't be more obvious if you were screaming it for '8 hours of coverage on CNN'.

[uppityperson]

32. most of those witnesses recanted their testimony, said they lied. False "evidence".

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

140. How convenient

Perhaps they were telling the truth then and are lying now under pressure from attorneys. Attorneys can't give pressure?

[The Doctor.]

147. So he's executed on the testimony of PROVEN liars and you're ok with that?

Really?

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

152. I'm not okay with executing anyone

I won't shed tears over Davis or Brewer but it doesn't mean that I support their killing. I wanted life without parole sentences for both of them. I don't want to execute innocent people. But that isn't the agenda here. Most of the people who support Davis want him released from prison because they believe him to be innocent. That is a FAR CRY from what I and most other people want -- we wanted him kept in prison for life so he could have continued to fight his fruitless legal battle.

[The Doctor.]

155. You believe someone should be punished without proof.

That's sick enough.

Learn the terms 'reasonable doubt' and 'shadow of a doubt' and tell us which should apply to capital crimes.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

161. I don't need to learn them because I went to law school. You are a pretend Perry Mason.

Shadow of a doubt is not a legal term. Neither is "beyond any reasonable doubt", for that matter. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard for criminal convictions. There is no heightened standard for capital punishment.

[The Doctor.]

195. Yes, I love how every one is an 'expert' on the internetz.

I didn't mean in legal terms anyhow. As far as any reasonable, civilized person is concerned, no one should be put to death when there is any doubt at all about their guilt.

So Mr. 'I went to law school', what is the proof of this man's guilt? So far, none has ever been seen.

Until we have that, you're just a guy that thinks it's ok to punish someone whose guilt is in question. That is sick all by itself.

Or maybe it's just ok if he's black?

[uppityperson]

177. You assume too much.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

182. So, looks like you guys did a great job yesterday

n/t

[uppityperson]

188. non sequitur. eom

[The Doctor.]

202. See here;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=5002004&mesg_id=5002896

[avaistheone1]

33. I believe 7 of the witnesses have recanted and said they lied about Troy

Davis being guilty.

Looks to me like an innocent man has been killed here.


:grr:

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

141. Recantation goes nice with a side of eggs and bacon

Sorry, I will save my sympathy for innocent people that have been executed, a group which in all likelihood includes Cameron Todd Willingham. Davis was convicted by a jury which included either five or seven blacks, I can't remember. Most of the witnesses were black. Their trial testimony means a lot more than their "recantations". Even with this recantations, however, the federal district court judge ruled the prosecution still had enough evidence to convict him. Read the 150 page opinion he issued last year -- I read it. It's convincing. You probably won't, however, because it's easier to just read talking points.

[The Doctor.]

148. So it would be ok with you for the state to put you to death, with ZERO

physical evidence whether you committed the crime or not.

Got it. I'm glad you're ok with that.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

153. Wanna go dollar for dollar?

Okay. No. I already said I don't support the DP and that I don't support the state of Georgia or any other state executing people. You're a victim of the CSI effect. You think that we can't convict people of murder without any physical evidence? Many times we convict people of child molestation with 0 physical evidence because we understand that 4 or 5 6-year olds testifying against a perv is pretty compelling. Just because I oppose the DP, however, doesn't mean that I think it is okay to release a convicted murderer from prison absent any real exculpatory evidence. You obviously know more than the federal judge -- because you watch CSI.

[The Doctor.]

154. So now you're just making shit up.

I didn't say he should be released. At least now I know what kind of disingenuous person I'm dealing with now.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

158. I think you missed a "now."

n/t

[The Doctor.]

196. Sorry, my grammatical errors don't suddenly make you earnest...

now.

[LiberalLovinLug]

232. Let me ask you a question

...on the witnesses that you relied upon to convince yourself of his guilt, and now decided that because they recanted that they are not to be trusted.

Why would they do that? Wouldn't life be easier on them if in fact they were telling truth the first time, to stand by their word? Tell me why they would incur the wrath of the police and state by reversing their true testimony for a false one? What does it get them?

I do not buy for a minute that you are against the death penalty. There was enough doubt to warrant a new trial. Why would you oppose this? If you are so sure that there is enough evidence against him DESPITE most of the witnesses recanting? Maybe because he may be deemed not guilty thus making you look like the *biting my tongue* you are?

[auntAgonist]

35. So, you oppose the death penalty yet you shed no tears

for the quite possibly innocent man that the state of Georgia executed.

You say that "the fact that the Davis case is lumped in with other execution cases ... says a lot"

enlighten us won't you? What does it say?

Are you really against the death penalty? I feel the need to question your sincerity.

aA

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

136. It says that if Davis were white that this case wouldn't have gotten any attention

I don't recall CNN covering Cameron Todd Willingham's case for 8 hours straight.

[Name removed]

149. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Doctor.]

203. Yes, pegged. Thanks for playing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=5002004&mesg_id=5002896

[patrice]

36. Many of us think it should not be used in guilty cases either. Life-in-prison without parole

is better. The offender could do dignified work the benefits of which could go into a victims' fund. That kind of restitution is preferable to vengeance. I would also include mandatory counseling.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[upi402]

47. dotymed posted something you should not read...

"The conviction relied solely on "eyewitness" testimony which is not reliable at best and should NEVER be enough to sentence a person to death, even in the dark, uneducated places that do murder people for "justice."
Seven of the nine "witnesses" had recanted their testimony. The ballistics evidence, which could have freed him, was never introduced to the jury. I watched, DEMOCRACY NOW, until after a temporary stay was granted from our corprate supreme court. I just woke up and learned that Troy Davis was murdered with the blessing of one of the most corrupt legal bodies in the world.

America, China, Iran, and two other third world countries are the only countries in the world who maintain the death penalty. The death penalty supported by 9 eyewitnesses, 7 of whom recanted, and no physical evidence, is just the kind of case that I would expect the hotbed of tyranny that has become our supreme court, to uphold against an innocent black man."

I'm with dotymed. I heard Democracy Now! and trust Amy Goodman & Co. far more than our Supreme Courtporate.

[NewJeffCT]

112. There are a lot more than 5 countries that permit the death penalty

I'm am against the death penalty in all cases, however, it is not just the US and a few others that allow the death penalty. Please don't argue that the US and a few other countries are the only ones that allow the death penalty, but it's just not true.

These countries also allow the death penalty:

Japan
Korea
Singapore
Taiwan
India
Egypt & much of Africa and the Caribbean
and others...

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_country

[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

60. No physical evidence, no weapon, someone else confessed, 7 of the 9 witness recanted,

another man confessed.

But because there are other people who are MORE OBVIOUSLY INNOCENT, you don't oppose it. Apparently you don't get the idea of FAIR TRIALS.

The people who spent their lives arguing for WIllingham here in Texas are also the ones arguing for Troy. So as Texan who fought for Willingham, a hearty fuck you.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

157. Personal attacks

Keep them coming, delicious.

Personal attacks are the last refuge of those without solid arguments.

I understand the idea of fair trials. I also understand that he received one, and he killed a cop. He was executed for it. I oppose our DP system but Davis was a cop-killer. He had far more access to the courts because he had far more supporters than Willingham ever did. Willingham= innocent man framed for arson.
Davis = thug cop-killer who beat up a vagrant earlier in the evening.

[uppityperson]

180. Personal attacks are the last refuge of those without solid arguments.

Like "You are a pretend Perry Mason"?

[uppityperson]

234. "Personal attacks are the last refuge of those without solid arguments." like this...?

"you know what you look like

An uneducated person who belongs in the republican party where they value less educational achievement"

[The Doctor.]

204. Check this;

To 'NOMOREDRUGWAR';

You're pegged.

Ok, so I've been going back and forth and extracting what I can from you, but it didn't require any real work. You were all too eager to give it up.

You said;

"Sorry, I will save my sympathy for innocent people that have been executed, a group which in all likelihood includes Cameron Todd Willingham. Davis was convicted by a jury which included either five or seven blacks, I can't remember. Most of the witnesses were black."

"It says that if Davis were white that this case wouldn't have gotten any attention

I don't recall CNN covering Cameron Todd Willingham's case for 8 hours straight."

Yep, there it is.


You are convinced a white man is innocent because, I presume, not enough evidence exists to prove his guilt... in your opinion. You also lament how 'unfair' it is that the media won't cover him because he is white.

You are convinced a black man is guilty, but are unwilling or unable to present the evidence, excerpt, or even your own summary of whatever portion of the written legal opinion you found compelling enough to convince you of his guilt.

This has absolutely nothing to do with guilt or innocence for you at all.

It couldn't be more obvious if you were screaming it for '8 hours of coverage on CNN'.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

66. If he was guilty as you say then why did so many witnesses recant AND

why did the one witness have to move out of the state when the "real" killer threatened her??

(this was discussed this evening on The Ed Schultz Show)

[FarLeftFist]

68. Forget him being 'innocent', all that matters is whether it is beyond a reasonable doubt.

They found blood Caylee's blood in Casey Anthony's trunk, she walked with more against her that Troy had.

[dddem]

102. Young? White? Pretty?

coincidence. Purely coincidence.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

137. I see

Well, you can't undo last night. What's done is done. Anthony was guilty, obviously. What's your argument? Is it that because a white murderer was acquitted by a jury of idiots that we should have let a black murderer go free? I would have supported keeping Davis in prison for life.

[The Doctor.]

150. No proof of his guilt exists.

'Bloodthirsty' is not an admirable or civilized trait.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

159. Yes, I'm so bloodthirsty

that I supported keeping Davis in prison for life. Hah. Give me a break. You keep saying that basically no evidence exists of his guilt yet you insist that you didn't want him released from prison. Doesn't that make you pretty heartless? You'd keep a man imprisoned for life when no evidence ties him to the crime. Oh wait, what's that? There's some evidence suggesting he's guilty? Color me shocked.

[The Doctor.]

197. Yet you will 'not shed a tear or lose sleep' over it.

I'm sensing a theme here.

[uppityperson]

181. How about bigotry exists and we notice it and think it wrong. Would you agree or

are you going to snark back instead?

[dddem]

239. My argument was, in fact, not an argument at all

I was agreeing with the poster, but since you asked, My point was that I'm very uncomfortable with the fact that a young white woman with so much evidence against her wasn't found guilty of anything significant, while a young black man was killed based on tainted testimony, and no physical evidence. For the record, I couldn't have found Ms. Anthony guilty of a capital crime, based on the evidence presented, but I could easily have found her guilty of a lesser charge, BASED ON EVIDENCE. Also, for the record, even if Mr. Davis had a gun, had fingerprints on the gun, had smoke coming out of the gun in his hand while standing over the lifeless body of the victim screaming OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE - I KILLED A MAN, I still couldn't convict him of a capital crime, because I'm against the death penalty under any and all circumstances. K?
Peace.

[coalition_unwilling]

76. There was NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE linking Davis to the murder. So

are you making a purely legalistic argument that Davis "was not innocent" because he had exhausted all his appeals? Or on what basis do you claim that Davis was not innocent?

N.B. Several of the eyewitnesses who later reversed themselves claim they were coerced by police into fingering Davis as the killer.

[AngryOldDem]

91. Furthermore, the ballistic evidence was tainted.

Even the state admits it should not have been entered into evidence, and a juror has said that had she known the true state of that evidence, she would not have voted for the death penalty.

There was enough reasonable doubt raised in this case to merit a commutation of the sentence to life without parole, if not a new trial.

And to those who think this case will raise questions and awareness about the death penalty in this country, it won't. Not in this climate where people actually cheer whenever it is carried out, and the state doesn't apparently care whether or not it is justly carried out. If anything, I see the bloodlust only getting stronger.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

163. There was nothing special about this case to support commutation

to life without parole. That would have been fine with me but Davis was not more deserving of it than your average death row inmate. He most certainly did NOT deserve a new trial. He had one. Do you understand the burden of proof required to overturn a guilty verdict? You need a smoking gun, not a couple of piles of homemade horse poop.

[A Physicist]

165. New Trial?

Where did you hear he had a new or second trial?

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

167. You need to read other posts besides the one you're responding to for proper

context. AngryOldDem was saying that Davis could well have deserved a new trial, and I was responding and saying that Davis did NOT deserve a new trial. I was not saying that Davis had actually received a new trial.

[A Physicist]

191. My bad

[The Doctor.]

205. Yet you cannot refute what AOD stated.

You just make sweeping proclamations with no substance.

You've been exposed for what you are. Enjoy your stay.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

215. Okay big

Whatever you say. Attempt to smear me as a racist because I pointed out a double standard. You're the only one saying that. I hope you didn't cry about this.

[The Doctor.]

218. It's very, very simple.

Produce the evidence.

Until then, there are no other rational conclusions about your own 'double-standards'.

[Name removed]

221. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Doctor.]

223. Who's 'Rick Parry'?

If you're going to play 'grammar police' you should probably get other things right yourself, dontcha' think?

I'm not telling you to 'prove non-racist bonafides'.

I'm telling you to produce the proof or even proper evidence that Davis is guilty. If you have no actual reason to believe he's guilty, but are certain the white guy is innocent, then you look like what you look like.

And if you're fine with that, so be it.

[Name removed]

228. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

230. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

229. How is he acting like a British football executive? Unless you mean Rick Perry?

which would be amusing since you have knocked people for misspelling words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Parry Rick Parry (born on 23 February 1955) is the former chief executive of Liverpool Football Club, and the former head of the FA Premier League. He is currently on the board of directors at New York Cosmos (2010).

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

231. You fail like the doctor

See post #237. Stephen Colbert has been making the Rick Parry joke for weeks. I figured people would get it. I was wrong. But look, you failed again. Failing hard.

[uppityperson]

233. I don't watch Colbert. Fail back at you for assuming too much.

[Name removed]

247. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[digitaln3rd]

98. This is 100% true

It's sad to see so many cheering for this guy. People just wanted to believe he was innocent to push their agenda but the truth is he wasn't.

The thing is, people only started protesting this to play the race card and promote their anti-death penalty agenda. I'm almost surprised Al Sharpton wasn't there, given all the cameras.

[Hissyspit]

107. Ah, so you were there that night of the shooting.

[The Doctor.]

224. I'm seeing a clear pattern here.

And it's not one replete with evidence.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[musette_sf]

111. + 1

and don't let the door hit your ass

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

168. Oh yeah

Oh yeah.

[lunatica]

106. Where's your proof of this?

Everything I've heard is that 7 witnesses out of 9 recanted. One died (the 8th witness). The one who is left was a suspect and at least one of the witnesses who recanted claims he told her he did it and she lives in fear of her life because of it.

Do you have a link to something that substantiates your claim? If not then you're just stating an opinion.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

170. I'm sorry I don't believe the 7 year old who wasn't even at the scene of the crime

But is now making stuff up.

[_ed_]

129. You have no fucking idea about his guilt or innocence

You weren't there. You didn't sit on any of his juries. You weren't a part of the legal system that prosecuted him or defended him.

"There was more evidence against him than many other people who have been executed."

Are you a lawyer? I am. I'll be eagerly anticipating the list of death penalty cases you can supply where people were executed with less evidence.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

171. The same can be thrown back at you.

I will do that. You weren't there. You didn't sit on his juries. You can't say that he was innocent or that any evidence suggested it because you weren't there. See, it works both ways? Yes, I am an attorney. Are you a criminal defense attorney? I am not, but I did spend four years as an assistant district attorney. The district attorney that prosecuted that case is convinced that Davis killed that cop. He correctly pointed out that there are really two cases here -- the legal case and the public opinion case. The public opinion case has been lost for years because many of those who comment on it are unaware of the amount of evidence facing Davis.

Cameron Todd Willingham was executed based on far less compelling evidence than Georgia had against Davis. You want another? How about Jesse Tafero? What area of law do you specialize in big?

[The Doctor.]

200. Yer Pegged buddy.

Ok, so I've been going back and forth and extracting what I can from you, but it didn't require any real work. You were all too eager to give it up.

You said;

"Sorry, I will save my sympathy for innocent people that have been executed, a group which in all likelihood includes Cameron Todd Willingham. Davis was convicted by a jury which included either five or seven blacks, I can't remember. Most of the witnesses were black."

"It says that if Davis were white that this case wouldn't have gotten any attention

I don't recall CNN covering Cameron Todd Willingham's case for 8 hours straight."

Yep, there it is.


You are convinced a white man is innocent because, I presume, not enough evidence exists to prove his guilt... in your opinion. You also lament how 'unfair' it is that the media won't cover him because he is white.

You are convinced a black man is guilty, but are unwilling or unable to present the evidence, excerpt, or even your own summary of whatever portion of the written legal opinion you found compelling enough to convince you of his guilt.

This has absolutely nothing to do with guilt or innocence for you at all.

It couldn't be more obvious if you were screaming it for '8 hours of coverage on CNN'.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

216. Let me guess,

you got your private investigator certificate from ITT. You pegged me. Awesome job. What's next for you? figuring out who killed JFK, perhaps?

[The Doctor.]

222. It's very, very simple.

Produce the evidence.

As far as thousands, even millions of people are concerned, Davis' guilt is in question.

What do you know that they do not?

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

238. I know that he's only the cause of the day

nt

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

217. Breyer and Ginsburg refused to vote for a stay

They obviously saw the very compelling evidence -- evidence you refused to see. Do you believe Mumia is innocent too? If you do I'll have a better idea who I'm dealing with.

[isuphighyeah]

174. Hi Ann. n/t

[uppityperson]

183. ?

[isuphighyeah]

186. Post 29 regurgitates all the talking points

in Coulter's blog on this case.

[uppityperson]

187. Thanks.

[The Doctor.]

206. Nice catch. You may find this interesting;

To 'NOMOREDRUGWAR';

You're Pegged.


Ok, so I've been going back and forth and extracting what I can from you, but it didn't require any real work. You were all too eager to give it up.

You said;

"Sorry, I will save my sympathy for innocent people that have been executed, a group which in all likelihood includes Cameron Todd Willingham. Davis was convicted by a jury which included either five or seven blacks, I can't remember. Most of the witnesses were black."

"It says that if Davis were white that this case wouldn't have gotten any attention

I don't recall CNN covering Cameron Todd Willingham's case for 8 hours straight."

Yep, there it is.


You are convinced a white man is innocent because, I presume, not enough evidence exists to prove his guilt... in your opinion. You also lament how 'unfair' it is that the media won't cover him because he is white.

You are convinced a black man is guilty, but are unwilling or unable to present the evidence, excerpt, or even your own summary of whatever portion of the written legal opinion you found compelling enough to convince you of his guilt.

This has absolutely nothing to do with guilt or innocence for you at all.

It couldn't be more obvious if you were screaming it for '8 hours of coverage on CNN'.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

219. Like what exactly?

Put up or shut up

[alarimer]

235. How do you know this for sure? How does anyone?

The death penalty is WRONG for the simple reason that reasonable doubt is not a high enough standard.

If 7 witnesses recant (and only other one left alive is the other main suspect, and he knows better than to incriminate himself), does this not tell you that perhaps they got this one wrong? "Obviously guilty", only to an idiot. If you can't see this, you are a fucking moron.

[avaistheone1]

34. Truly heartbreaking.

[Matilda]

38. A sad day.

RIP, Troy Davis

[upi402]

40. All involved have murdered an innocent. He did not. They will all burn for this

it would appear. All those involved better hope all the Jesus stories are 100% BS.

[dotymed]

42. A rascist State, 20 years ago convicted a black man of

murder. The conviction relied solely on "eyewitness" testimony which is not reliable at best and should NEVER be enough to sentence a person to death, even in the dark, uneducated places that do murder people for "justice."
Seven of the nine "witnesses" had recanted their testimony. The ballistics evidence, which could have freed him, was never introduced to the jury. I watched, DEMOCRACY NOW, until after a temporary stay was granted from our corprate supreme court. I just woke up and learned that Troy Davis was murdered with the blessing of one of the most corrupt legal bodies in the world.

America, China, Iran, and two other third world countries are the only countries in the world who maintain the death penalty. The death penalty supported by 9 eyewitnesses, 7 of whom recanted, and no physical evidence, is just the kind of case that I would expect the hotbed of tyranny that has become our supreme court, to uphold against an innocent black man.

[totodeinhere]

71. Actually, from 58 to 70 countries allow the death penalty.

The figure varies depending upon whether or not you count countries were it is technically allowed but hasn't been used in a long time. I'm getting sick and tired of so much misinformation on this board. I oppose the death penalty and always have, but when we repeat untruths like only five counties allow the death penalty we lose our credibility and it doesn't help our case.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

[dotymed]

87. I got my information

from the head of Amnesty International on Free Speech T.V. on Wednesday.

[totodeinhere]

114. This just goes to show that you shouldn't believe everything you hear on TV, even

from a progressive channel.

[jwirr]

43. Just curious: how many states still have a death penalty and which

ones are they?

[auntAgonist]

45. there are 34 states w/death penalty

Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maryland
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Washington
Wyoming

[totodeinhere]

74. And sadly even some blue states are on that list. n/t

[Quantess]

100. Many of those states have the death penalty but never actually use it

or, at least, haven't used it for decades. Oregon and Washington, for example.

[auntAgonist]

133. Sept 10, 2010 Cal Brown was executed in Washington State.

Oregon's last execution was Harry Charles Moore. Moore died at 12:23 a.m. on May 16, 1997

[jwirr]

144. Hmmm, not just conservative states.

[auntAgonist]

49. and, the states without the death penalty.

Date abolished in parenthesis.


Alaska (1957)
Hawaii (1957)
Illinois (2011)
Iowa (1965)
Maine (1887)
Massachusetts (1984)
Michigan (1846)
Minnesota (1911)
New Jersey (2007)
New Mexico (2009)*
New York (2007)#
North Dakota (1973)
Rhode Island (1984)**
Vermont (1964)
West Virginia (1965)
Wisconsin (1853)



ALSO
- Dist. of Columbia (1981)

# In 2004, the New York Court of Appeals held that a portion of the state's death penalty law was unconstitutional. In 2007, they ruled that their prior holding applied to the last remaining person on the state's death row. The legislature has voted down attempts to restore the statute.


** In 1979, the Supreme Court of Rhode Island held that a statute making a death sentence mandatory for someone who killed a fellow prisoner was unconstitutional. The legislature removed the statute in 1984.

* In March 2009, New Mexico voted to abolish the death penalty. However, the repeal was not retroactive, leaving two people on the state's death row.

[ixion]

44. "justice system"

Yeah, right.

There is no 'justice system.'

[blackspade]

46. A brave man.

I can't say the same for the cowards that wouldn't allow a new trial.
When the justice system fails the innocent, it is no longer a justice system.

[avaistheone1]

51. I am sure

those folks think of themselves very piously.

Personally I think the people who would not allow him to be retried are :puke: :puke: :puke:

[fortyfeetunder]

48. What will make for interesting times

Just suppose the actual killer 'confesses' -- now that Troy Davis was executed....what will the State of Georgia do?
It would be too late for Troy!

[blackspade]

50. ...what will the State of Georgia do?

Prepare for a giant fat lawsuit.
along with the prosecutors and the parole board.

[solarman350]

52. What Happened to His Request for a Polygraph?

What were the Executioners so afraid of....the truth? The Polygraph is good enough for both the CIA and the FBI. So, why not for this case? If the Executioners were so sure about Davis's guilt, why refuse his request for a polygraph? Revenge killing is what this was..pure and simply and forever another case of "Southern Justice."

[A Physicist]

54. Question

Did he ask for a polygraph years ago and was denied? I have been unable to find out.

[crim son]

115. Denied.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/21/national/main20109428.shtml

[A Physicist]

53. Terri Schiavo ?

Terri Schiavo?

How is this different from the Terri Schiavo case?

Parents thought she was still “there” and wanted her kept alive using extraordinary means. Husband wanted life support discontinued. People that sided with the parents called for federal action to have the case reconsidered. They got their wish; the courts reviewed it and sided with the husband. The parent’s side (after having a second bite at the judicial apple) still cried out and refused to accept the outcome of the review they requested and got.

Defenders of Troy Davis wanted special judicial review and they got it:

“Federal hearing

In response to the Supreme Court order, a two-day hearing was held in June 2010 in a federal district court in Savannah in front of Judge William Moore. Former prosecution witness Antoine Williams stated he did not know who had shot MacPhail, and that because he was illiterate he could not read the police statements he had signed in 1989. Other prosecution witnesses, Jeffrey Sapp and Kevin MacQueen testified that Davis…”

More at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis_case#Federal_hearing

Likewise in the Troy Davis case, the side that requested and got the special judicial review refused to accept the outcome of that review.
In both cases one side’s position resulted in action that was irreversible. And, in both cases, one side refused to accept the outcome of judicial review unless that review went their way.

Riddle me the difference?

[BootinUp]

58. piss poor analogy.

stick to physics.

[A Physicist]

61. Articulate and thoughtful response;

full of detailed, point-by-point rebuttal.

Riddle me the difference?

[BootinUp]

62. Seriously?

I think it would be more interesting to talk about why you brought it up in the first place.

[A Physicist]

64. Epistemological curiosity

Because of the obvious logical equivalencies resulting in totally opposing conclusions; they teach us this rigorous epistemology stuff as part of our physics training.

[BootinUp]

67. My theory:

because 1) You are still upset that Schiavo was taken off life support and you want to fight about it. 2) You want to revel in the execution of Troy Davis.

How am I doing?

[A Physicist]

75. Totally Wrong

I supported the husband in the Schiavo case and I didn’t want Troy Davis executed.

[BootinUp]

78. That really jives with your original post.

Not.


Enjoy your brief stay.

[Quantess]

124. Trying to compare Terri Schiavo with this case?

Oh, please. That is a desperate reach. You want to talk about a non-sequitor!
I doubt anyone here is interested in entertaining your whimsical argument.

And yes, I agree with BootinUp that your opinions on these matters are transparent, so don't even bother pretending otherwise.

[A Physicist]

166. Whatever

[A Physicist]

79. Argument directed at the person

Your repartee is pure Ad hominem and fails to address my original argument; like the Republican rejoinder: “Are you a communist?”

[BootinUp]

81. Argument directed by you against yourself

See posts 77 and 79 I believe.

[A Physicist]

84. non sequitur

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)

[patrice]

143. I think it is an interesting comparison, but you HAVE chosen the wrong time & place to make it.

[A Physicist]

169. Mob Rule

No room for thought only passion and heated red faces.

[Quantess]

193. I'm actually fairly detached about the whole thing.

You ask how the two cases are different, and I'm wondering how the two cases are at all comparable. You make an assumption that people will understand the similarity. I simply don't see any similarity. No red face here.

[A Physicist]

80. Still no logical rebuttal?

Just a threat and accusations of ulterior motives; you are a peach.

[BootinUp]

82. Thanks. nt

[Burma Jones]

118. Well......

On the left is a normal Brain, on the right is Terri Schiavo's.

But, your argument is based on Procedure, and I can see your point based on Procedure.

[still_one]

132. This is a huge difference. Terri Schiavo was brain dead. I know that is hard for those who do NOT

believe in facts, but after years of trying anything, doctor after doctor told her husband it was a permanent vegetative state

This was based on scientific evidence, NOT on 8 witnesses who reacted their testimony. In addition, there was NO physical evidence linking Troy Davis to the crime. There was plenty of physical evidence determining Terri Schiavo

[A Physicist]

190. Yes Terri was brain dead

She was brain dead according to science but the true believers believed what they believed and thought it was all a giant conspiracy by the evil liberal cult of the dead.

The cases are the same (as I thought was clear for my original post) in this sense: Terri/Troy supporters want special judicial treatment, they get it, it doesn’t go their way, they cry foul. The only outcome they will accept is the outcome that goes their way. What’s the difference?

Troy supporters to habeas corpus judge: Witnesses retract testimony and physical evidence (uncertainty about .38 caliber bullet ballistics and confident that .38 casings match).

Habeas corpus judge: I’ve examined these issues and I am unconvinced of his innocence.

Troy supporters to habeas corpus judge: look again

Habeas corpus judge: No, I will not change my mind.

Troy supporters to pardon board: Witnesses retract testimony and physical evidence (uncertainty about .38 caliber bullet ballistics and confident that .38 casings match).

Pardon board: We’ve examined these issues and are unconvinced of his innocence.

Troy supporters to pardon board: look again

Pardon board: No, we will not change our mind.

Where does it end? Storm the prison walls? How is the refusal of the “we refuse to accept the outcome of established procedures and protocol unless it goes our way” Terri Schiavo crowd different from the refusal of the “we refuse to accept the outcome of established procedures and protocol unless it goes our way” Troy Davis crowd?

[hue]

244. Terry Schiavo was never diagnosed brain dead...

She was brain damaged in a vegetative state but breathing on her own & her brain was extensively damaged-->NOT BRAIN DEAD!! There is a difference so look up the facts. Its hard for the lay person to make the distinction but Schiavo was never diagnosed as brain dead! All the pics show her as breathing on her own & moving spontaneously so she was never brain dead. No neurologist diagnosed her as brain dead ever! Many people live a full life with a feeding tube just like the one she had. Some people recover from esophageal or throat cancer for example and live a good life with a feeding tube. That is what Schiavo had. She did not need a ventilator or respirator to live thus she was not brain dead. Look it up!
Nonetheless, her case is completely different from Troy Davis!

[uppityperson]

184. Troy Davis was capable of thought and action. Is this a trick question?

wiki

Examination of Schiavo’s nervous system by neuropathologist Stephen J. Nelson, M.D., revealed extensive injury. The brain itself weighed only 615 g, only half the weight expected for a female of her age, height, and weight, an effect caused by the loss of a massive amount of neurons. Microscopic examination revealed extensive damage to nearly all brain regions, including the cerebral cortex, the thalami, the basal ganglia, the hippocampus, the cerebellum, and the midbrain. The neuropathologic changes in her brain were precisely of the type seen in patients who enter a PVS following cardiac arrest. Throughout the cerebral cortex, the large pyramidal neurons that comprise some 70% of cortical cells – critical to the functioning of the cortex – were completely lost. The pattern of damage to the cortex, with injury tending to worsen from the front of the cortex to the back, is also typical. There was marked damage to important relay circuits deep in the brain (the thalami) – another common pathologic finding in cases of PVS. The damage was, in the words of Thogmartin, "irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."<59>

[hue]

245. to clarify, PVS stands for persistant vegitative state which is different from brain dead.

see my other posts to further clarify. Brain death requires the absence of certain neurological behaviors which Terry never lost. Also Terry was breathing on her own which would rule her out for brain death.

[hue]

236. There is no analogy to the Terry Schiavo case and Troy Davis.

Troy Davis was accused of committing a crime and executed for it tho proof was not proven.
Terry Schiavo was never accused of a crime. Miss Schiavo was not mentally competent Davis was.
In many other respects the cases are far apart on the scale of similarity.

I doubt you are a physicist as I see no logic in your analysis of many of the salient issues you have argued.

[av8rdave]

56. There is a CHANCE he was guilty...but isn't that the point? Do we kill someone based on a CHANCE?

If we are going to have a death penalty, it damn well better be PERFECT!!!!

Tonight, we failed as a society. I am so ashamed.

[gumby]

57. Georgia Executes Troy Davis After His Last Plea Fails ('I Am Innocent')

FUCKTHEUSA

that is all....over and OUT!

[readmoreoften]

59. They stalled and left him tied on the gurney for 3.5 hours with the needle in his arm.

He was given a "reprieve" will the Supreme Court "decided." They chose not to hear his case at the last moment. The whole stalling process was to have protestors dissipate. Just to make it MORE of a travesty of justice.

I'm not sure if this is true, but it's all over twitter that the Coroner said that he will rule HOMICIDE as the cause of death for Troy. He was given his "reprieve" for his execution at 7pm and laid there with the needle in his arm until 11:08 pm.

7 of the 9 witnesses recounted
One of the witnesses later confessed to the crime
No weapon was ever found
There was no physical evidence
The jury who originally tried the case never heard any of this
One of the jurors who originally voted guilty claims that it was an unfair trial and regrets the decision

[micraphone]

69. Some repreive

Do this qualify for "Cruel and unusual Punishment" yet?

[geardaddy]

175. I think officially all executed people are ruled homicides

by MEs, since the cause of death was inflicted by someone else.

In any case, I think he was subjected to cruel and unusual punishment by being strapped to the gurney for 3.5 hours. That and the fact that no one should be executed.

[RamboLiberal]

63. Murderers GA courts & governor to SCOTUS

Even if it turns out he was guilty there was no reason to execute him tonight. It will not bring back the dead officer. Tonight was a very dark night for GA & US!

[A Physicist]

72. Some people need killing

In the worst kind of way: Ted Bundy, Gary Ridgway, John Wayne Gacy, Kenneth Bianchi, Angelo Buono, etc.

Troy Davis, who if guilty killed an off duty police officer in a moment of excitement was not one of them. That’s the real problem here; the police are able to demand what amounts to revenge justice for their peeps because, hey, they’re cops and can muster the required political support from the “law and order” crowd. There is a clear moral difference between an excited young man in a confusing street confrontation killing a cop and people that select victims’ at random for a thrill kill.

We are going to have a death penalty for the foreseeable future but be that the case; we should reserve it for only the worst. The appeals process needs to be exhaustive and judges need the power to review the accuracy of jury findings of fact. Currently they only review whether all the proper procedures were followed; which doesn’t prevent an innocent person’s execution.

[coalition_unwilling]

83. "Some people need killing in the worst kind of way" -- WTF? Welcome

to my Ignore list, douche.

[SammyWinstonJack]

122. Hopefully the douche won't last here..

:evilgrin:

[SammyWinstonJack]

123. So you oppose the DP but "some people need killing in the worst way"?

:silly:

[Quantess]

128. And, he thinks Terry Schiavo should have stayed on life support indefinitely.

So transparent.

[A Physicist]

199. Incorrect

Don't put words in my mouth, I never wrote anything of the sort. I supported the Terri Schiavo ruling. I also support logical analysis.

[Quantess]

207. Okay. So, what is your logical reasoning in comparing the 2 cases?

Maybe you can help me understand your analysis.

[A Physicist]

210. Post #55 and #196

Summary from #196:

How is the refusal of the “we refuse to accept the outcome of established procedures and protocol unless it goes our way” Terri Schiavo crowd different from the refusal of the “we refuse to accept the outcome of established procedures and protocol unless it goes our way” Troy Davis crowd?

[Quantess]

211. Looks like post #55 is where I can find your train of thought on this.

In my opinion, the 2 cases are an apple and an orange.

[A Physicist]

198. No

I support the death penalty in the most extreme cases; Troy Davis was not one of those.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

65. There was reasonable doubt, so Georgia should not have executed him

This is a sad commentary on our society.

I am not convinced that Troy Davis was innocent, but there was so much doubt

as to his guilt that we as a country should not have allowed his execution.....

[aggiesal]

70. THis really sucks !!! ...

Where are the Pro-Lifers now?

[A Physicist]

77. Some people need killing

In the worst kind of way: Ted Bundy, Gary Ridgway, John Wayne Gacy, Kenneth Bianchi, Angelo Buono, etc.

Troy Davis, who if guilty killed an off duty police officer in a moment of excitement was not one of them. That’s the real problem here; the police are able to demand what amounts to revenge justice for their peeps because, hey, they’re cops and can muster the required political support from the “law and order” crowd. There is a clear moral difference between an excited young man in a confusing street confrontation killing a cop and people that select victims’ at random for a thrill kill.

We are going to have a death penalty for the foreseeable future but be that the case; we should reserve it for only the worst. The appeals process needs to be exhaustive and judges need the power to review the accuracy of jury findings of fact. Currently they only review whether all the proper procedures were followed; which doesn’t prevent an innocent person’s execution.

[Fearless]

85. An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

The mark of a civilized society is not the perpetration of state-sanctioned murder regardless of who they are killing.

[A Physicist]

86. Sounds good

if you say it fast but that is not political or legal reality.

[Fearless]

88. What I said was ethics, the foundation of both politics and law.

State-sanctioned murder is an unethical double standard.

[A Physicist]

90. That’s a statement of belief

not fact; public policy disagreements are decided in the political arena.

[Fearless]

189. Yes it is my belief that state-sanctioned murder is an double standard.

That tends to be what we offer in discussion when we speak our mind on a topic, our opinions.

[polmaven]

110. Then we, the people,

should push to MAKE if a political and leagal reality. - NOT IN MY NAME!!!!

[jzodda]

89. This whole thing has made me sick to my stomach

Its 4:15am and I haven't been able to get any sleep over this. So rare for me when a news story gets to me like this. I think the last time was the Columbine shootings.

I am so sad at what this country is turning into.

[PFunk]

93. Damn. Today I"m NOT proud to be an american.

In fact I bet this is playing well overseas. This may be wrong but I hope Georgia gets a lot of bad karma over this.

[duhneece]

126. Amen

I can't help but yell 'murderer!' in my mind to the Georgia Board of Pardons, the DA, the Supreme Court. Murderers. And I hate to yell 'murderer' even in my own mind to anyone.

[ck4829]

94. So did these 7 witnesses lie? Why no perjury charge? Were they coerced as the prosecution says?

Then why no investigation into what would then be witness tampering?

[Harriety]

95. This is so sad. I feel terrible for him and for our country.

[democrank]

97. Sickening government-sponsored barbarism

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

101. Hate to think of how many more the Prisons will kill when they become more private.

[florida08]

103. they keep saying 'convicted'

as tho justice was served because of it. I don't see how the family gained satisfaction given what his last words were. Justice is not revenge but that's what happened, given what the wife and mother of Officer McPhail has said. A seared conscience is not interested in virtue. They wanted peace but they just lost their chance at it.

"I will grieve for the Davis family because now they're going to understand our pain and our hurt,"

[Dokkie]

108. I hate convictions attained mainly from eye

witness evidence because we all know how faulty they can be. But the death penatly to be is not all that bad and I believe they should be a place for it in our justice system for those crimes that are so grusome, clear on undeniable to the vast majority of the population. The case of Troy Davis is not one of them.

[Harmony Blue]

125. Objectively I am inclined to agree

but many who serve in law enforcement feel that murdering a cop is a gruesome crime. I don't agree with that view, but it seems like emotions have replaced our entire justice system.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

113. A country of Republican savages, which the rest of us are enduring nt

[rainlillie]

116. I don't know if Mr. Davis was guilty or innocent

and I'm not opposed to the death penalty, but I do think this case deserved a second look by the justice system. Considering that seven of the nine witnesses have recanted their stories.

[A Physicist]

119. They gave it an unusual second look

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis_case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis_case#Federal_hearing

[ccavagnolo]

121. List of Vigils

Please come show respect for a life and support for our overwhelming and mixed feelings.

The list can be found here:

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/deathpenalty/list-of-troy-davis-vigils-in-u-s-today/

[duhneece]

127. Too much doubt

Even pro-death penalty advocates, such as former FBI director and federal judge William Sessions and former Georgia Republican Congressman Bob Barr have spoken out against executing Davis, citing “crucial unanswered questions” (Sessions) and a lack of the requisite fairness and accuracy required to apply the death penalty (Barr).

[66 dmhlt]

130. Echoing others already posted here ...

Troy Davis was NOT executed -

Troy Davis was MURDERED by the state of Georgia

[tropicanarose]

156. The SCOTUS was unanimously in favor of the killing of Troy Davis then? No dissent?! Outrageous!

How can there possibly not be dissent when 7/9 witnesses recanted their original testimony?!!
The system is a complete joke.

I would be willing to bet that 20 years from now there will be an investigation that will pull out from under the rug the racist practices of the original investigation--much like the recent case here in Chicago with John Burge.
It would be too complicated and politically charged for them to investigate the investigation process now *sarcasm*.....Troy Davis was murdered to save their racist asses......the truth will be revealed some day though.

[abelenkpe]

194. really? nt

[Constance Craving]

160. RIP Troy (n/t)

[AllyCat]

164. My heart aches for both of these families.

How terrible.

[totodeinhere]

214. Thank you for mentioning both families. KIlling Troy Davis was a travesty but the

death that he was wrongly convicted for was also a travesty.

[MissDeeds]

173. Heartbreaking

Apparently it's more important to execute someone who 'might' be guilty than to spare someone who 'might' be innocent. Shameful.

[Voices]

176. Well, at least...

they offed that Brewer guy in Texas. He deserved worse.

[unionworks]

178. "swing low

...don't let go, swing low and carry me home"...Steve Earle, "Ellis Unit One"

[colsohlibgal]

179. We Need To End The Death Penalty Now

The State should not be allowed to kill people, that's the ultimate slippery slope.

There is no doubt whatsoever that innocent people have been executed and more will be in the future till we stop this.

Decades locked up is a bad enough punishment, it's cheaper, and there is recourse if the person is later found to be innocent.

In some cases the defendant owns up to it and some are even so twisted they're proud of what they did. In those cases I think anyone in the victim's family should be allowed to pummel the person in a controlled environment and then said killer can rot in jail the rest of his (or the very occasional her) life.

The other thing that is sick is the glee yahoos express about executions, the enthusiastic cheering when Brian Williams said Texas Governor Perry had executed hundreds of people chilled me to the bone.

[RedCloud]

185. Death penalty should be applied to judge, prosecutor and executor.

They premeditated his murder.

[bitchkitty]

192. So sad. n/t

[A Physicist]

208. Epistemologically Challenged Anti-Death Penalty Cult

Not sure where some people on this thread are getting their data but there seems to be an unsubstantiated belief that all Democrats are opposed to the capital punishment; this is not the case.
72.6% of the adult population supports the death penalty and the breakdown by party affiliation is 85.2% Republican, 63.1% Democrat, and 65.8% Independent. Democrats opposed to the death penalty do not own the Democratic Party and there is no party catechism that requires anybody that wishes to a member of the Democratic Party to oppose the death penalty.

My guess is the anti-death penalty crowd thinks their passion on this issue somehow (perhaps through a mysterious force propagating through the luminiferous aether) entitles them to declare those that disagree with them on this issue, not a “real” Democrat and purge them. You can have your purge when that 63.1% drops to 33%. Your entitled to you own passion but not your own facts.

http://www.utsa.edu/swjcj/archives/5.3/5%20Vollum%20et%20al.,%20Death%20Penalty%20Attitudes.pdf

See also: No true Scotsman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)

[auntAgonist]

246. PUBLIC OPINION (facts)

from
Death Penalty Information Center
1015 18th Street NW, Suite 704
Washington, DC 20036
Phone: (202) 289 - 2275
Fax: (202) 289 - 7336
Email: [e-mail]
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org

A 2010 poll by Lake Research Partners found that a clear
majority of voters (61%) would choose a punishment other than
the death penalty for murder, including life with no possibility
of parole with restitution to the victim’s family (39%), life with
no possibility of parole (13%), or life with the possibility of
parole (9%).

and...

According to a survey of the former and present presidents of the
country's top academic criminological societies, 88% of these
experts rejected the notion that the death penalty acts as a
deterrent to murder. (Radelet & Lacock, 2009)

[lebkuchen]

212. The US is a backward country

medieval

[blkmusclmachine]

220. Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!

Rings hollow..

[DFW]

225. My recommendation for the Georgia parole board

Originally, I would have said give them all a large infusion of rat blood.

But, on second thought, they would probably just find it invigorating.

[SoapBox]

227. sickening...

More holes in this case than swiss cheese.

[emcguffie]

237. I have just finished reading a book on near-death experiences.

As horrible as this event has been, and as unjust and as shameful, thanks in part to this book I now believe that Troy Davis himself is today truly in a much better place. I realize that sounds really cheesy, kind of like, hmm, cue the violin and the pretty lights, and the angel wings.... (Should I say, "flame on"?)

The book is Consciousness Beyond Life: The Science of the Near-Death Experience, by Pim van Lommel, M.D., a Dutch cardiologist. Previously, a study on near-death experiences in cardiac arrest by Dr. van Lommel had been published in The Lancet.

A lot of the book centers around evidence collected that indicates that near-death experiences (NDEs) take place at times when there is no brain activity, and thus are not the product of lack of oxygen or some other physiological event that might cause an experience of flashing lights or something along psychedelic lines. These NDEs take place when someone is verifiably clinically dead, with no brain activity.

Many NDEs include a segment where the consciousness of the nearly dead person leaves the body and witnesses events that can be, and often are, confirmed after the person has recovered. In one such experience, the person involved, whose consciousness had left his body and was hanging out near the ceiling, saw a medical professional trying to intubate his body. Apparently, the patient's false teeth had gotten in the way, and the health professional removed them and placed them in a drawer in a cart. Later, when the patient had recovered and was missing his teeth, he told a nurse or an aide where he/she could find them, as well as how they had gotten there. The medical personnel found the dentures in the drawer of the cart and returned them to the patient. Events like this are very common in NDEs. Patients often may recount the music that was playing in surgery when they were apparently dead, or the sequence of events, or the conversations that took place.

From the jacket cover: "Dr. van Lommel has resigned his post as a practicing cardiologist to devote his time to further research and lecturing all over the world on near-death experiences."

The author's website: www.pimvanlommel.nl

I find this helpful to deal with the horribleness of what has just taken place, what our supposedly splendid country has just done to someone who was quite likely completely innocent, in spite of all our supposedly wonderful laws and in spite of our supposed respect for human rights and the dignity of the individual. What a joke, right? Well, we can't undo what happened yesterday, so I'm hoping Dr. van Lommel is absolutely right.

[marasinghe]

241. fucking degenerate savages belong in primordial slime; not the 21st century.

[Vattel]

248. A sad day for Troy Davis' family and for justice.

I don't know if he was guilty or not, but no one should be punished let alone executed when the evidence doesn't show that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There are too many cases like this. Ryan Ferguson is in prison in Missouri for murder and is clearly innocent, but the appeals process makes it almost impossible to get out of jail on the grounds that new evidence makes it likely that you are innocent. Witnesses that recant won't do it.