Libya council:we won't hand over Lockerbie bomber

[dipsydoodle]

Source: Reuters

TRIPOLI Aug 28 (Reuters) - Libya will not extradite Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, the man convicted of the 1988 Lockerbie airline bombing, a minister in Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC) said on Sunday.

"We will not give any Libyan citizen to the West," Mohammed al-Alagi, the NTC justice minister, told reporters in Tripoli.

"Al-Megrahi has already been judged once and he will not be judged again ... We do not hand over Libyan citizens, (Muammar) Gaddafi does." (Reporting by Mohammed Abbas; Writing by Christian Lowe; Editing by Matthew Jones)

Read more: http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFLDE77R05720110828

[Warren Stupidity]

1. wait until they see the bill. The tune will change rather rapidly.

This revolution of theirs comes with a price. All those smart-ass bombs aren't cheap. There will be terms. Those terms will not favor the people of Libya or their silly notions of national sovereignty.

[qwertyMike]

6. The rebels did not ask or help

They got help because they have OIL. The oil leases will pay any 'Bills'. Libya per capita will be one of the richest nations in the world and, as such, can snub their noses at whoever they want

[qwertyMike]

10. Silly notions of National Sovereignty?

What century do you live in. . . . .are we going to send a collection agencY?

[Warren Stupidity]

13. No they are going to need loans and other aid.

And the terms of those loans will quickly dispense with any notion the 'rebels' have that they will be in control of their destiny.

Oh, and I live in this century. The one where a small group of banksters run the world, using financial extortion or military force as needed to get their way.

[qwertyMike]

14. They do no need LOANS

They have NO debt, 1,2 billion bbls of oil lowing, 1,400 tonnes of gold and billions in unfrozen assets which belong to them. They are (net worth) richer than the USA

[TomClash]

26. They will learn to need them nt

[bvar22]

20. "collection agency" ? No, Something much Worse than that.

You don't really believe the Freedom Bombers were sent in FOR FREE, do you?

The plan will be the same as the plan for Iraq,
A NeoLiberal Free Market HELL,
with the IMF, The Global Oil Corporations, and The World Banks owning EVERY THING,
but I find your hope & idealism refreshing.

and if there is resistance?
well, we have a whole lot of Freedom Bombs left over.
Libya WILL be assimilated.

Have you noticed a slight shift in the US Media Wind concerning the Rebel Leadership over the last few days?

[Odin2005]

48. I am reminded of the behavior of the late Roman Republic.

I'm currently reading a series of historical novels about the late Roman Republic by Colleen McCullough and the similarities to the US right now are stunning. The foreign policy similarities make your jaw drop.

[Raster]

86. The goal of the PNAC, among others, was to correlate the US as the New Rome....

...able to take what it wanted, when it wanted.

[sabrina 1]

58. Exactly what is going to happen. But there are still a few

who believe that NATO really is a humanitarian operation and that the Brits, France, Italy and the US had no ulterior motive at all when they bombed the place to bits and got behind the Regime Change. It is so familiar that you would think alarm bells would go off. The only difference these days in disposing of Dictators who have outlived their usefulness is that we at least used to spirit them out of the country to live lives of luxury on the French Riviera or somewhere.

As Mubarak, a loyal US puppet and as Obama and Biden said, 'a good friend and ally of the US for many years', could tell anyone who asks, today's discarded dictators are left to their fates or hunted down, see Saddam, and handed over for the death penalty.

The only problem with the change in policy towards our former friendly dictators is that smart dictators, rather than stopping at killing only a few hundred of their citizens who rise up against them, see Mubarak and Ben Ali, will now fight to the end, killing as many as they can before it ends.

Other than those slight differences though, nothing has changed with US policies. We are still supporting even more brutal dictators, who still are useful and so far have not given us any trouble, as Qadaffi did.

[DURHAM D]

2. Has anyone asked for him to be handed over? nt

[lunatica]

3. You beat me to it

Maybe I'm wrong but wasn't Bush involved in getting him freed and sent back to Libya?

[theoldman]

4. Probably, but we will never know the truth.

[dipsydoodle]

7. Don't think he was involved

Bush had already retired by then.

Aside from that all that Libya really needs to do is have the appeal heard there - then he'd be free anyway.

Fraud in Lockerbie Investigation-Prosecution http://www.defraudingamerica.com/lockerbie_index.html

[stockholmer]

30. no, it was the war criminal (and JP Morgan employee - ooops same thing) Tony Blair

[Xithras]

18. There have been a lot of "unofficial" calls for his extradition.

From the British Foreign PM, to Charles Schumer and other elected US leaders, to Mittens Romney and other GOP presidential wannabe's, there's been a lot of loud but unofficial chatter with the press lately about extraditing him and "bringing him to justice".

I'd assume that the Libyan's are just responding to that media chatter.

[rhett o rick]

21. Naw, that's all "behind" us. nm

[indurancevile]

69. they don't want him back. that's why cnn is reporting he's in a coma & that's why the "rebels" can

say they won't hand him over so authoritatively.

wonder why they don't want him back?

[dkf]

5. Did we expect we had made friends with our billion dollars? The jokes on us.

[qwertyMike]

8. Exactly

The west is not welcome in any Arab country......... Quite rightly....... Our track record is a bit patchy over there.

[SavWriter]

11. You called it

Right in my opinion.

[qwertyMike]

16. Sarkozy

is the big winner here. He was pumped to go from the beginning.... He's hosted the new council. The Libyans will throw him a few oil leases.

[JackRiddler]

31. "Our billion dollars" would be what, the one spent on bombing Libya?

Probably didn't make many friends, no.

[Harmony Blue]

47. Well said

We are not welcomed and many do not understand this point.

[No Elephants]

67. When we first bombed Afghanistan, we also dropped goods, like peanut

butter. (The Afghans had no clue what it was.)

A friend waxed rhapsodic about the witness (meaning a Christian witness) our dropping food on the Afghans was.

I'm sure any family who had lost a home and/or family members to the bombing duly appreciated the peanut butter.

:sarcasm:


People can sure be crazy.

[Ozymanithrax]

9. He went to prison, served in prison, and was released...

People in the west who feel their governments erred legally when hey allowed the man to go home should hold their governments responsible.

I agree with their stand, that a man should not be judged twice for the same crime.

[dkf]

12. He was freed on false pretenses.

The Brits had no business putting their economic interests above our safety. Really the Brits were bought off and what are they gping to show for it? The jokes on them too.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. You're right, but it is the British government bureaucrats involved that need to go to jail...

Let them be tried for their crime of corruption. I haven't heard if any of them were tried. Do you have a link?

Hell, if the people of Libya want to extradite Muammar al-Gaddafi for bribing British officials to release the man, then they should do that.

It is an old liberal principle that a man should not be tried and punished twice for the same crime. I think the Libyans have a good basis in law if they follow that principle.

[dipsydoodle]

17. If anyone was bought off it was Al Megrahi

by getting his agreement to drop his appeal given that a mis-trial had already been found.

He'd have got off on appeal.

[Xithras]

19. Not really.

First, the guy was likely innocent, or at least wasn't guilty of the crime he was convicted of.

Second, the guy really does have terminal cancer and is circling the drain. The whiners are just upset because he isn't dropping dead quite as quickly as they'd hoped.

[geek tragedy]

22. Circling the drain?

Is that what they call living in comfort these days?

[Xithras]

27. The guy has terminal prostate cancer.

There's some debate over how far along it was when he was released, but there's no debate about his disease or its prognosis.

He was diagnosed almost three years ago. The average lifespan for someone with his condition is 5-7 years. He'll be dead in a few years, whether he stays free in Libya or is sitting in a prison cell under an unjust conviction.

He's circling the drain.

The U.S. just wants to stick him in Guantanamo without trial until he dies, so they won't have to answer any of the messy questions about the evidence the CIA faked, the witnesses we paid off, and the exonerating information that provided to the Brit's but witheld from his defense team.

[geek tragedy]

28. Considering that the only reason he's a free man is

the corrupt duo of BP and Qadaffi . . .

[JackRiddler]

33. The reason he was released early on "humanitarian grounds" was because he would have won his appeal.

[geek tragedy]

38. Yeah, BP's lobbying had nothing to do with that.

Funny how the pro--Qadaffi side ignores the role of big oil when it does not suit them.

[sudopod]

82. "pro--Qadaffi side"? Really? Is that what you're going to say? nt

[Nihil]

83. What did you expect from that poster? Really?

:shrug:

[Xithras]

36. I don't believe that for a second.

He was freed because the Scottish courts had already labeled his original trial a "gross miscarriage of justice", and he had already been granted a new trial. His new trial would have included a lot of very embarrassing information about the United States and Great Britain and would have aired some very ugly facts about our "evidence" in a very public venue. The CIA paid millions of dollars to witnesses. The timer itself (which was the basis for his entire conviction), may have been a CIA forgery. CIA cables contained information putting him elsewhere at the time of the attack, and were hidden from the defense in the initial trial and appeal. ALL of that would have been included in the new trial, and it almost certainly would have let him walk free anyway.

The Scottish governments very first stipulation for his "humanitarian release" was that he drop his appeal, which he did. That, I believe, was the point all along. The UK and U.S. governments wanted the whole thing to go away before it became a massive embarrassment for them, and the humanitarian release gave them the cover they needed. By sending him to Libya, they kept him away from the press and protected their own asses.

[geek tragedy]

39. Hilarious. Big oil is irrelevant when it does things on

behalf of your side, but all-powerful when things don't go your way.

[joshcryer]

43. No shit.

People can't be consistent if their life depended on it.

[Xithras]

54. Hmm, what is "my side" exactly?

If "my side" is the side that says corrupt governments shouldn't be imprisoning innocent men using fabricated evidence, then I'm glad to be here.

Do you really believe that making a few billion dollars on an oil deal is a bigger issue for the UK government than having to deal with front page headlines for weeks on end detailing how the United States and the UK conspired to fabricate evidence and knowingly convict an innocent man on terrorism charges, for no other reason than PR? Don't you think that the knowledge that the UK and US flat out fabricated evidence and lied to their own people and judicial bodies in the name of "fighting terrorism" would undermine ANY remaining public support for their continued "fight against terror", and throw every single terror accusation from now until eternity into question? Can you imagine the impact that knowledge, once established within a court of law, would have on FUTURE court cases in Guantanamo and elsewhere against alleged terrorists?

You think it's just about oil money, but there were much bigger prizes at stake in this case. At risk here was the west's entire ability to wage a credible "war" against terrorism (which generates far more money than some piddly oil contracts), and the possibility that every bit of evidence ever brought against any terrorist in the future would be tainted by the knowledge that we have actively faked evidence and deceived courts in the past to obtain false terrorism convictions. This case would have been the golden goose for future attorneys representing accused terrorists.

I'm sure the oil contracts were a great bonus, but they weren't the reason behind his rapid "humanitarian" release. They wanted to shut the new trial down before the courts set him free, and all of this information became part of the official and open public record.

[joshcryer]

41. The "miscarriage of justice" crap takes a back seat to BPs $900 million.

The "embarrassment" for the screwup in justice would be forgotten in a few months, supposed leftists are using it to champion a murderer (the Gaddafi top officials have admitted to it, and Gaddafi paid off the families of the killed), if anything that's embarrassing.

Meanwhile BP was http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2005268,00.html">clearly linked to the release of the bomber, despite protests from both side saying he wasn't. BPs deal would not have gone through were it not for the release. Period.

[christx30]

23. He was wrongly released

he helped blow up a plane full of people and killed a few on the ground as well. He deserves to spend the rest of his life in a cage. Not doing so will embolden others to do the same thing. Kill a bunch of people, get your home government to make a deal to secure your release on false pretenses.

[Ozymanithrax]

29. The people who released him wrongly should be held accountable...

But he was tried, convicted, imprisoned,and served his time. If he was an actor who violated law leading to false release, that would be new charges that he would face. That seems to be a combination of BP and British diplomats who decided a few million barrels of oil was better than the full measure of justice applied to the man. But his punishment for the bombing is done.

The measure of law should be justice, not vengeance. For those who believe in such things, vengeance is the lords job. As long as he violated no laws in his release, he should not be further punished. BP and British diplomats, however, should feel a full measure of justice in this matter.

[JackRiddler]

32. Yes, they hurried to release him before his appeal would have demolished the case against him.

The real travesty of justice was the fixing of the case by way of evidence (the circuit board) long ago acknowledged to have been planted by the CIA. Megrahi had won the right to an appeal. The process was underway. Suddenly, he was released on humanitarian grounds, ending the appeal.

[joshcryer]

42. And giving BP a $900 million contract before that whole bargaining chip disappeared...

...resulting in a lower contract renegotiation.

Gaddafi, a friend of the west.

[24601]

78. He deserved execution. Life w/o parole would have been a

distant second.

[Iggo]

24. The Brits had him. They let him go. (n/t)

[TomClash]

25. Yes, they are "looking forward"

"Let's not dredge up the past."

[hollowdweller]

34. drones

Won't matter what the new gov't says if the US gets a fix on him.

Suprised AQ Khan hasn't been targeted.

[qwertyMike]

37. Drones = video bombs

Some hacker's gonna dump one of those puppies on Congress.
Kewl

[JackRiddler]

35. A very good sign speaking in the Council's favor as a legitimate body.

[joshcryer]

40. Glad you're finally viewing them favorably. Give them more time and you'll see.

They're not racist (Max Forte) islamist (DU) pro-imperialists (Chavez).

[qwertyMike]

44. If they are a legitimate body

then it's non of our fkn business what they chose to do, unless they harm us.
If they want to be Marxist, Islamic, democratic, tribal, or Baptist, so be it.

[joshcryer]

45. Completely agreed.

[indurancevile]

70. hardly. their masters don't want him back.

[Romulox]

77. A "legitimate body" that acquired power only through the West's bombing, you must mean.

:hi:

[JackRiddler]

79. Sure. I'm just pointing out that this move, at least, is right and just.

We'll see how long they hold out.

[Romulox]

85. Right. But maybe we just bomb THESE GUYS, then put in somebody who'll play ball.

Why not? It's how the current despots got power. :hi:

[stockholmer]

46. strong evidence that al-Megrahi was framed by the CIA to cover up a Lebanon drug-running op + more

The way the appeal by Megrahi was dropped in exchange for his release, nobody can see the evidence that his lawyers gathered (thousands of pages) that show the targets of the Lockerbie bombing were rogue CIA agents who were going back to testify in Washington DC about their involvement in the Lebanese hostage (Terry Anderson, et al.) situation.

The rogue element was involved in the terrorist drug running (skimming for themselves and clandestine CIA ops, similar to what Oliver North was doing in Iran Contra). The US State Department and other US agencies pulled almost all their people off the flight, and dozens of Syracuse University students who were on standby to fly home for the holiday (because they wanted to save money) were thus let on the flight. They all died.


I think all really ned to do a deeper dig on the geo-petrol genesis of this NATO travesty, as well as tribal dynamic relations in Libya, Libya-Chinese-Russian recent alliances (that the west hates) and the US/UK using al-Qaeda in the eastern part of the country.

The standard of living there was 57th in the world, rapidly rising, the highest in Africa, higher than Russia, Ukraine, Brazil, etc etc).
It included universal health care, very active women's rights movement, subsidized housing and child care, massive infrastructure projects such as the Great Man-made River, etc.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from the The Week (UK)

How Megrahi and Libya were framed for Lockerbie

Alexander Cockburn: Amid all the fuss about Megrahi’s early release, there remains strong evidence he didn’t do it

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/66187,news-comment,news-politics,how-abdelbaset-al-megrahi-and-libya-were-framed-for-lockerbie-bombing

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lockerbie Diary: Gadhaffi, Fall Guy for CIA Drug Running (Scoop from The Independent- New Zealand)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1103/S00072/lockerbie-diary-gadhaffi-fall-guy-for-cia-drug-running.htm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

US and NATO use and support of al-Qaeda in the Libya coup d' etat

Abdel Hakim Belhaj (aka Abdul al-Hasadi), Tripoli's newly installed military governor (also a key official within Libya's National Transitional Council), is linked to Al Qaeda, reports Liberátion (Leftist French newspaper).

http://www.liberation.fr/monde/01012356209-abdelhakim-belhaj-le-retour-d-al-qaeda

http://translate.google.se/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liberation.fr%2Fmonde%2F01012356209-abdelhakim-belhaj-le-retour-d-al-qaeda

Belhaj is the former head of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (an affiliate group of Al Qaeda). In 2003, Belhaj was arrested in Malaysia in 2003, later being interrogated by CIA in 2004 in Thailand. He was set free in Libya in 2008.


It's important to note Belhaj is supported by NATO, as Le Parisien and MSN France report:


http://news.fr.msn.com/m6-actualite/monde/libye-calme-relatif-%c3%a0-tripoli-avanc%c3%a9es-dans-louest-statu-quo-dans-lest-2

10 h 20. Un islamiste à la tête du commandement militaire de la rébellion à Tripoli. Abdelhakim Belhadj a été le chef militaire qui a préparé, avec l'aide de l'Otan, la prise du QG de Kadhafi, à Bab Al-Azizya. Al-Jazeera lui a consacré un long entretien en direct du QG à l'issue des combats. Ancien dirigeant du Groupe islamique des combattants libyens (GICL), lié à Al-Qaida, Abdelhakim Belhadj, a été arrêté en 2004 par les Américains en Asie et livré par la suite à la Libye, selon la presse arabe. Il aurait bénéficié de l'amnistie de centaines d'islamistes libyens en mars 2010 ordonnée par Saif Al-Islam, fils préféré de Kadhafi.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Karel Abderrahim, a researcher at the Institute of International and Strategic Relations (Institut de relations internationales et stratégiques, a French think tank) said in an interview to La Croix, a Catholic French newspaper, that he is skeptical about the dissolution of Al Qaeda-Libyan Islamic Fighting Group:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.la-croix.com%2FActualite%2FS-informer%2FMonde%2FKader-Abderrahim-chercheur-a-l-Iris-Je-ne-vois-pas-qui-pourrait-federer-la-Libye-_EG_-2011-08-24-702836

Further background:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/libyan-fighting-factions-to-unite-under-single-military-command-1.380955?localLinksEnabled=false

http://www.roadstoiraq.com/2011/08/27/al-qaeda-in-libya-started-to-act-killing-friends-and-foes/
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html

"Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi's regime.

In an interview with the Italian newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore, Mr al-Hasidi admitted that he had recruited "around 25" men from the Derna area in eastern Libya to fight against coalition troops in Iraq. Some of them, he said, are "today are on the front lines in Adjabiya".

Mr al-Hasidi insisted his fighters "are patriots and good Muslims, not terrorists," but added that the "members of al-Qaeda are also good Muslims and are fighting against the invader".

His revelations came even as Idriss Deby Itno, Chad's president, said al-Qaeda had managed to pillage military arsenals in the Libyan rebel zone and acquired arms, "including surface-to-air missiles, which were then smuggled into their sanctuaries"....................


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

flashback 2 years (including Young Turks video) more US support of terrorist groups

Saudis and CIA back Khalid Sheikh Mohammad’s Jundullah in Pakistan and Iran?

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/02/07/saudis-and-cia-back-khalid-sheikh-mohammads-jundullah-in-pakistan-and-iran
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

flashhback to 2007 (BBC)

Libyan Islamists 'join al-Qaeda'

Zawahri called for North African leaders to be overthrown
A Libyan Islamist group has joined al-Qaeda, according to an audio message on the internet attributed to the radical network's second-in-command.
Ayman al-Zawahri purportedly said the Fighting Islamic Group in Libya was becoming part of al-Qaeda.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7076604.stm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

flashback to 2002 (Guardian UK) French intelligence experts revealed how western intelligence agencies bankrolled a Libyan Al-Qaeda cell (and how the UK flat-out lied)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/nov/10/uk.davidshayler

MI6 'halted bid to arrest bin Laden'Startling revelations by French intelligence experts back David Shayler's alleged 'fantasy' about Gadaffi plot

British intelligence paid large sums of money to an al-Qaeda cell in Libya in a doomed attempt to assassinate Colonel Gadaffi in 1996 and thwarted early attempts to bring Osama bin Laden to justice.

The latest claims of MI6 involvement with Libya's fearsome Islamic Fighting Group, which is connected to one of bin Laden's trusted lieutenants, will be embarrassing to the Government, which described similar claims by renegade MI5 officer David Shayler as 'pure fantasy'

--------------------------------------------------


Ties things up rather neatly, going back to at least 1996................... all on here supporting the NATO invasion need to wake up.

[joshcryer]

49. Libya paid up $1.3 billion dollars to the families over Lockerbie.

That's pretty stupid thing to do if you're innocent.

[stockholmer]

50. think more critically, as to what was going on (aka tens of billions in oil contracts, getting off

terrorist-WMD list, etc). Just like big multinationals do a cost benefit analysis when it comes to defects in products, or actions such as pollution, etc). If it cheaper to 'settle out of court' rather than fix a deadly situation, they will. Ford Pinto, and all that.

Qaddafi plays chess with the systemic controllers at multi-dimensional levels. He bought up a bunch of junk from remnants of the AQ Khan Pakistani nuke network for pennies on the pound, and turned that over to the US as evidence he was 'through with a nuke attempt'. When the Americans took it back, and saw that most of it was useless or broken, it was too late, the deals were signed.

Awfully quick reply from you as well, there is no way you looked at most of what I posted/linked. I think you will find it interesting.

[joshcryer]

61. Much of your post consisted of unsubstantiated Islamaphobic / racist al-Qaeda / LFIG crap.

Of which part of it I've read before but which is easily dismissed at this point as nonsense.

The payoff was not going to lift the sanctions, as Gaddafi knew damn well that the west wanted the oil contracts. Which brings us back to BP, we saw how the Lokerbie bomber was used in the BP negotiations, and that his release was effectively the requirement to get the deal done.

Basically it was a wash. Libya gives up some money to the victims, Libya gets billions of dollars in contracts from the west. For Gaddafi the future privatization was going to be where the real dough came in.

[Denzil_DC]

51. As opposed to being bombed back into the stone age?

Or continuing to live as a pariah state with a pariah leader?

Not really stupid. Expensive, yes. Stupid, arguably not.

[joshcryer]

62. Uh, if the guy is going to be exonerated later on you have an effective arguement...

...for reparations.

[JackRiddler]

53. Libya lost many billions due to the Lockerbie sanctions before it finally capitulated.

It took almost 10 years and many billions in losses before Libya gave up the $1.3 billion. It was a relatively minor payoff to end a very costly extortion. Gaddafi continued to deny Libyan involvement in the Lockerbie attack, and did so in public speeches, despite the official Libyan "admission" of guilt (which was also forced as a condition for ending the sanctions). Anyway, that was when Gaddafi decided to become your friend, NATO man. He was joyfully received and got plenty of deals and arms, too, and had one-on-one friendly business meetings with most of the leaders who ultimately double-crossed him. Lockerbie was no longer an issue, hadn't been brought up in years, and wouldn't have figured into the BP contract negotiations. Except that Megrahi had won the right to appeal, and the right to present evidence that had been excluded from the first trial. He was going to win his case within six months to a year. That's when the UK authorities decided they would be "humanitarian" and let him go, to avoid the embarrassment (and the re-opening of the Lockerbie case).

[joshcryer]

63. Gaddafi's arms deals are what make him no friend of mine, actually.

I know that you and others like to slander me as a pro-imperialist, but I merely recognized that Gaddafi himself was pro-imperialist. The sanctions were going to be lifted assuming the Lokerbie bomber got exonerated, which would've led to a lawsuit for reparations (which the US among others would have ultimately had to pay).

Instead they took the easy route.

In any event, Moussa Koussa's defection is the whole reason the Lockerbie case is being revisted, because top level Gaddafi defectors say that indeed Libya was behind it. Of course, because many people cannot think critically, it must surely be a conspiracy, but I find the reports credible in light of Gaddafi's capitulation.

[Xithras]

55. Two points.

1. Libya paid the money, but was pretty upfront about the fact that they were doing so to get the sanctions lifted. The economic harm they were suffering was much greater than the money the west wanted, so it was a fair deal for them.

2. Even when Gaddafi made his "confession", as part of the deal, he maintained that al-Meghri wasn't involved. His statement was that the attack was carried out by Libyan "agents", but always maintained that the west got the wrong man.


One of the interesting impacts of this revolution is that we may actually be able to get to the bottom of this now and stop arguing theories. If the new Libya is open, we may be able to solve a lot of mysteries, the way the fall of the Soviet Union opened up the KGB archives.

[joshcryer]

64. I highly doubt that, though I agree it's possible, there are some who dispute facts...

...even when all the evidence is there. Moussa Koussa was interviewed over this and other top level Gaddafi defectors said that Gaddafi was behind Lockerbie and can prove it. But I highly doubt the conspiracy people will accept it as truth, it'll be a CIA plot or some other such nonsense.

So we really won't get anywhere on that point.

It's always stupid to pay up and admit guilt either implicitly or explicitly. There is nothing to gain from doing that. Libya had a huge settlement for economic sanctions if Lockerbie got exonerated.

[Romulox]

75. But there is NO WAY we could've been tricked *this time*, right?

BOMB THEM!

[Bosonic]

52. Moot point?

CNN Exclusive: Lockerbie bomber comatose, near death, family says

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Lockerbie bomber Abdel Basset al-Megrahi is comatose, near death and likely to take secrets of the attack on Pan Am Flight 103 to his grave.

CNN found al-Megrahi under the care of his family in his palatial Tripoli villa Sunday, surviving on oxygen and an intravenous drip. The cancer-stricken former Libyan intelligence officer may be the last man alive who knows precisely who in the Libya government authorized the bombing, which killed 270 people.

"We just give him oxygen. Nobody gives us any advice," his son, Khaled Elmegarhi, told CNN.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/08/28/libya.lockerbie.bomber/index.html?eref=edition

[dipsydoodle]

56. off topic

we posted at exactly the same time on this topic when the news was announced. I went back to delete mine but you'd already done so. Thanks for that.

:hi:

[Bosonic]

57. No problem, you were technically first...

[joshcryer]

65. Nice. Hope we get a deathbed confession / denial / secret treasure map to buried secrets.

[Romulox]

76. LOL. That's convenient!

:eyes:

[hopiakuta]

59. Oop!

Some say Gathafi:

< http://google.com/search?q=%22gaddafi%22+%22moammar+el+gadhafi%22+%22gathafi%22+%22khaddafy%22++tripoli+libya+lebanon++ >:

gaddafi moammar el gadhafi gathafi khaddafy tripoli libya lebanon


Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, Abdelbaset Mohmed Ali al-Megrahi does not appear to be conscious. Possibly comatose.

Oop.

[hopiakuta]

60. n. t. ?

Is n. t. no text?

National Transition Council, National Transitional Council are N. T. C.

Transitional National Council is T. N. C.

Is that it?

[hopiakuta]

66. Please, someone, assist Shweyga Mulla, Shweyga Mullah.

Please, someone, assist Shweyga Mulla, Shweyga Mullah.





Thank You,





DonFphrnqTaub Persina

[indurancevile]

71. cnn was there, why didn't THEY?

[indurancevile]

68. cnn is on the case. they say he's at death's door.

they're always johhny on the spot with these stories.

[pampango]

72. Juan Cole: Lockerbie Bomber in Coma in Tripoli, as retreating Qaddafi Troops use Human Shields

http://www.juancole.com/2011/08/lockerbie-bomber-in-coma-in-tripoli-as-retreating-qaddafi-troops-use-human-shields.html

CNN’s intrepid Nic Robertson gets the scoop. He discovered that Abdel Basit Ali Megrahi, the convicted Lockerbie bomber, is in a coma in a villa in Tripoli. Megrahi suffers from prostate cancer. Megrahi was freed by UK authorities on health grounds, but there had been reports that he may have been in remission, producing some regret in the UK about his release.

[Romulox]

74. Bullshit propaganda. Who do you advocate we bomb next, by the way, Pamps?

[pampango]

81. Propaganda? Ali Megrahi's not in a coma? I stand corrected.

Bomb next? If you're suggesting that the UN has gone (or will go) "rogue" and is authorizing the bombing of countries all over the world for no reason, we disagree. The UN should condemn and sanction human rights abuses no matter where they occur according to its rules and responsibilities.

If your question is whom should the US bomb unilaterally? No one.

[Romulox]

84. Um, you missed the part where he was announced to be "dying", previously, I guess?

"Bomb next? If you're suggesting that the UN has gone (or will go) "rogue" and is authorizing the bombing of countries all over the world for no reason, we disagree. The UN should condemn and sanction human rights abuses no matter where they occur according to its rules and responsibilities."

There is no logic whatever to this statement. If there were, you could tell me (with mathematic precision) whom we should bomb next. Why not N. Korea? Or Yemen? Or Burma? Or Somalia?

I thought we had a "responsibility to protect"? :hi:

[Romulox]

73. But these are FREEDOM FIGHTERS!!!!! *No way* could some wiley N. African warlords trick us (again)!

These are our FRIEEENDDDDSSSSSS (now keep bombing who they say!) :rofl:

[Swede]

80. He is part of a large and powerful tribe that the new government needs

He won't be released.