Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Strip Club ‘Pole Tax’ Is Upheld in Texas

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 11:46 PM
Original message
Strip Club ‘Pole Tax’ Is Upheld in Texas
Source: The New York Times

HOUSTON — The Texas Supreme Court ruled Friday that the state’s “pole tax” — a $5-per-customer fee that strip clubs that serve alcohol are required to pay the state — did not violate the clubs’ free-speech rights, overturning a lower court decision that declared the fee unconstitutional.

In 2007, state legislators passed the Sexually Oriented Business Fee Act, which imposed the fee on nearly 200 establishments that feature live nude performances and allow the consumption of alcohol. The $5-per-customer entrance fee, which is imposed on the business and not the patron, is intended to raise money for sexual assault prevention programs and health insurance coverage for low-income people.

An Amarillo strip-club owner and the Texas Entertainment Association, which represents many of the state’s topless clubs, sued the state attorney general and comptroller over the fee. A district judge struck down the law in 2008, and an appeals court in 2009 ruled, in part, that the law was a “selective taxation scheme” that singled out nude dancing and a specific class of “First Amendment speakers.”

On Friday, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that the fee was constitutional, declaring it a “minimal restriction” on the businesses and that any establishment seeking to avoid the fee “need only offer nude entertainment without allowing alcohol to be consumed,” Justice Nathan L. Hecht wrote for the court. He wrote that the fee was not intended to suppress expression in nude dancing, but was directed instead at “the secondary effects of nude dancing when alcohol is being consumed.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/27/us/27texas.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
plumbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Anybody running a place without $5 per customer to spare is already
out of business - they just don't know it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why not tax churches. They could raise waaaaay more money.
$20.00 per head.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Right on, but they should tax the church on profits won just like a casino.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. Texas likes to tout their lack of income tax, but they nickle-and-dime their citizens at every turn.
They have a pretty high sales tax, and depending on where you live, the town or city can add even more on to it.

Why not just flat out charge the customers five bucks at the door and be done with it? Tell the customers it's the tax...it's not like the convenience store pussyfoots around about charging the customer an extra nine or more percent on that pack of cigarettes or what-have-you; just tell the customer that they're paying the tax and be done with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. Was that a Freudian slip about PussyFooting around in regards to a Pussy Show story!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Nuthin' Freudian 'bout it! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. So there's going to be a head count at the nudie bar?
Just come on over to Nawlins cowboys, and lose your money to the girls like your supposed to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. Bahahahaha pole tax.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. Sort of like a head tax.
Pun intended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chollybocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. No legit business should be used as an unpaid tax collector for the state.
But a few kickbacks and loopholes might quiet them down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. This will really piss off teaBaggers,
Since they will be the most affected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Populist_Prole Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. Yeah really!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. The woman that wrote this legislation
was the director of a battered women's clinic in Houston. Her name is Ellen Cohen.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Lawmaker-cheers-court-OK-for-strip-club-pole-tax-2143508.php

The tax proceeds are "earmarked":

... the first $25 million in proceeds from the tax would go to programs that help victims of sexual assault. After that, the funds are earmarked for health care programs for uninsured people.


She was my representative in the Texas Legislature, but was defeated in the Red Tea Tide of 2010. She's running for Houston City Council in this cycle.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/08/stripper_pole_tax_okayed.php

Please keep Ms. Cohen in mind when the inevitable "Texas bashing" associated with the rightful criticism of morons like Rick Perry occurs. There are many progressives in Texans that are fighting back, and we would be delighted if you could assist us in some small way ... for example by not contributing to the meme that 'Texass sucks'. If we fight back -- and eventually win back -- Texas, we break the back of the Republican TeaBagging machine that funnels all this conservative crap throughout the United States.

Just sayin'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
31. I thought it was written by Texas Rep. Squeezy McFeelpants.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. He hasn't been your representative
... since 2008. ;^)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. Can't really call it a sin tax. How about a sin cover charge?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. This will likely shift the business model of the clubs to BYOB with cover charge.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. BYOB is taxed as well.
http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/court-upholds-strip-club-tax-1796361.html

"The Legislature approved the $5 fee in 2007 for businesses that offer live nude entertainment and sell alcohol or allow patrons to bring their own alcoholic beverages."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. Interesting-is this tax only where they have pole dancing?
a tax per individual is a "poll" tax. with poll being head. A pole is, well, a pole. So if it is a pole tax then they have to tax the pole.

In any case I have no problem with a $5.00 charge to those who frequent strip clubs going to the state. I'd say that's truly a luxury tax.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
12. Unfair tax on poor women
Come on, this so unfair. If they are going to tax anyone who dances (including Tom Delay) then it would be okay. But just poor women is so unfair. Leave it to Republicans to tax the poor and most vulnerable, while giving subsidies to oil industry. Sick f-ers!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. see reply #8. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. see reply #8. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Know anything about dancer economics?
Dancers basically pay the club to work. There's usually a stage fee (percentage of earned money or flat rate, I've seen as high as $500), DJ fee (percentage of earned money or flat rate), bar fee (same), and/or house fees (same). They're *paying* to dance, in a gamble that they can somehow earn enough money to justify their investment.... It doesn't always work, and it's not unheard of for a worker to go home deeper in debt than when they started the evening. Adding another $5 (per customer!) to the money that must be earned from customers somehow, some way, only adds to that burden.

So yes, this is essentially a tax on poor women.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
localroger Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
15. Why stop here?
Why not tax the sale of barbeque grills to fund the fire department? It makes about as much sense as this.

Reply #8 notwithstanding, this is not a progressive thing. As noble as the cause being funded might be it has little to nothing to do with the thing being raided to fund it, and is thus just another sex-hating sin tax.

Hey, instead of banning the sale of vibrators we could tax them to fund earthquake detection research...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tooeyeten Donating Member (441 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
16. What will Grover think?
Passing a tax on business.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
19. it's probably not unconstitutional, but it's a ridiculous law
the money raised by it goes to good places, but there are far more reasonable ways to do that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
20. The only sin tax I want
Sin taxes are a sin on the freedom of the people.

Levy a 100% sin tax on the politicians equal to the tax enacted, to be taken individually from each one who voted for or promoted the tax.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Tax Greed, It Works! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kevin Cloyd Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. Both the NYT article and the Houston C. article
Both the NYT article and the Houston C. article use the terms topless, strip club and nude dancing interchangeably while the quote from the Texas Supreme Court cites "nude dancing."

Here in the Midwest the Courts and local ordnances see quite a difference in these terms. Is this bad journalism or something else?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. If it's bad journalism, it's not limited to those two.
Trying to find the answer to your question, I read some 30 different articles, and almost *all* mixed the terms.

For those outside the industry, a primer:
1. Topless: Shirt/blouse/bikini removed. No display of anus or labia. Nipples may, or may not, be exposed, depending on local laws.
2. Strip club: any establishment where clothing is removed for entertainment. Can include topless, and nude, clubs.
3. Nude dancing: Most clothing is removed, though, shoes and accessories (earrings, belly chains, hair coverings/accessories, etc.) are normally kept on. Labia and anus exposed.

Beyond the basics, not only is *what* is exposed regulated in various ways in various states and communities, *how* it is exposed is also regulated. I live in Portland, Oregon, where it's legal to ride a bicycle naked down a public street.... as long as it's not a sexual act.

People can remove all their clothes, in a private establishment, for money, and display their genitals, and have sex with other people... as long as it's not a sexual act with a paying customer.

Just about the only regulation that kicks in is keeping one's liquor license, in which case full nudity, dancers touching patrons (not the other way around, though), is allowed, as long as it's not "lewd" behavior or committing a sexual act with a customer for money.

.....Of course, if you *want* to have sex (or watch others having sex) with other people in a club, that serves alcohol, we have those too, but paying for that sex is not legal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. public sex in a club in texas is legal if you're not getting paid?
erm, you say and i quote if you *want* to have sex (or watch others having sex) with other people in a club, that serves alcohol, we have those too, but paying for that sex is not legal. forgive me for being skeptical but can you name one club where i can go this weekend and see people having public sex in a club in texas? i'll drive over and make a full report

as far as i know, public sex in clubs, even for fun between consenting adults, has been illegal in the 50 usa states since the 1980s...something to do with hiv/aids trying to close down the bathhouses and so on but maybe public sex is still legal somewhere and no one bothered to tell me, nothing would surprise me


my head hurts, it's all too complicated for me

as for strippers, they've long been priced out of a decent living, between all the fees and the tipping everybody out...i'm so old i remember when strippers considered themselves artists and looked down on whores, now the only way to make any money is to be a feature/ porn star/escort (in other words, you DON'T just dance, you have to whore yourself) to make any real money

this is not progress particularly but texas is hardly the only state guilty of wanting to pick a working girl's pocket
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. I don't know Texas rules.
I lived there for a week. I have no plans to return there..... Ever.

You must have missed the part where I mentioned that I was talking about Portland, Oregon, rules. This is from the second paragraph:
".... not only is *what* is exposed regulated in various ways in various states and communities, *how* it is exposed is also regulated. I live in Portland, Oregon, where it's legal to..."

...so, the following paragraphs relate to that.

"as far as i know, public sex in clubs, even for fun between consenting adults, has been illegal in the 50 usa states since the 1980s...something to do with hiv/aids trying to close down the bathhouses and so on but maybe public sex is still legal somewhere and no one bothered to tell me, nothing would surprise me"

We still have them in Portland. We're super-huge on free speech here.
http://www.clubsesso.com/
http://www.angelspdx.com/

I think there are still clubs that have live sex performance in San Francisco, but you can't pay to play in the same space, if I recall correctly.

"as for strippers, they've long been priced out of a decent living, between all the fees and the tipping everybody out...i'm so old i remember when strippers considered themselves artists and looked down on whores, now the only way to make any money is to be a feature/ porn star/escort (in other words, you DON'T just dance, you have to whore yourself) to make any real money"

The economy for dancers is a bit different in Portland, but again, we're not like other places. Here, there's a monthly glossy magazine dedicated to the industries (with authors who are workers in sectors, reporting from various sectors), we have lots of dance/talent/service competitions, and the talent winds up sorting itself by what they're allowing themselves to do. It's not a *great* living, but it's better than fast food, with looser dress codes (and working while drinking codes), more flexible work hours than office work, and an entire eco-system of drivers, daycare/baby-sitting, costuming, beauticians, cobblers, dance teachers, (etc. etc. etc.) built around it.

Most clubs, per capita, west of the Mississippi is Portland's claim to fame (yes, more than Vegas, SFO, Texas, etc...) so that probably makes Portland unique.

WRT to whoring: at many clubs, even *asking* about any off-site work (aka whoring) will immediately get an army of large men removing you with force, because discussing that can cost a club their liquor license. It's still an industry here, but there's a lot of intentional separation, to the point where stripping clubs will eject "working girls" because they poach dancer dollars.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-11 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. In Texas it's called a 'tittie tax.' I think it's a slippery slope. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
30. In their CA case Hooters classified waitresses
as performers. I wonder if they will be required to collect the cover tax.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. We know how that trickle-down economics thingy is going to work:
Jim-Ricky Perry will be paying a little extra to go to the tittie bars after his church meet'ns
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. i don't think perry has any interest in titties?
if you look into past perry scandals i don't think titties will be among them

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. There was a thread a few weeks ago saying that he has been
Edited on Mon Aug-29-11 06:24 AM by Ilsa
a frequent patron of strip clubs in the Austin area.

But yes, there are questions and doubts about his sexuality.

Or maybe he's been to a few strip clubs in an attempt to diffuse the rumors that he likes guys.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC