US troops may stay in Afghanistan until 2024

[ChandlerJr]

Source: The Telegraph

America and Afghanistan are close to signing a strategic pact which would allow thousands of United States troops to remain in the country until at least 2024, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

The agreement would allow not only military trainers to stay to build up the Afghan army and police, but also American special forces soldiers and air power to remain.
The prospect of such a deal has already been met with anger among Afghanistan’s neighbours including, publicly, Iran and, privately, Pakistan.
It also risks being rejected by the Taliban and derailing any attempt to coax them to the negotiating table, according to one senior member of Hamid Karzai’s peace council.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8712701/US-troops-may-stay-in-Afghanistan-until-2024.html

---

He wouldn't dare, would he?

[William769]

1. And I bet no one saw this coming.

[julian09]

19. How long does it take to train Afghan army

They have short life span 45 years. By the time they are trained it will be time to retire. US military enlist and are deployed in months, afgans are effective fighters against UN, but can't fight Taliban. Keep the graft coming, everyone there should be a millionaire when we leave and everyone in US will be on food stamps.

[RKP5637]

31. It's very profitable for the MIC, so it will continue and continue. We all can

eat cat food. And live in tents! Go USA! Go USA!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. And why am I NOT surprised?

He WOULD dare.

Damn it.

:eyes:

[awoke_in_2003]

72. sadly, Peggy...

nothing is surprising anymore.

[begin_within]

3. What the hell for?

[jberryhill]

9. For the same reason they are still in Germany, Japan, Italy, Korea...

It's not as if US troops have ever left anyplace the US has ever fought things to at least a draw.

It's not as if there is a lot of fighting going on in any of those places.

If you want to get technical, we have Marines at every US embassy there is.

[dhill926]

11. sadly.......+ 1

[jberryhill]

15. Those are great assignments

You know, Americans for geographic and economic reasons, don't get to see much of the world. Most will never visit a foreign country.

You take young men and women from all areas of the country, send them to these places in now-friendly countries, and they learn a thing or two or three.

That's not all bad for us, and it's not all bad for the other countries, provided that our troops, airmen, and sailors are properly supervised and disciplined not to cause problems. Problems occur, yes, and those should be major concerns.

I may be biased as the son of a US soldier and his Austrian wife, but it worked out pretty well for our family, anyway.

[dhill926]

17. I hear ya.....

but more a response to the fact that we will never truly leave the Middle East......

[daleo]

49. And it hardly costs anything.

Mere hundreds of billions.

[jberryhill]

57. A bargain at any price, lol

[Hydra]

67. If we had a functioning economy

People like me would go there without having to apply to be a state sponsored Corp Merc.

[begin_within]

14. Yes, but specifically for Afghanistan, what is the real purpose?

[jberryhill]

23. Optimistically?

Deterrence, stability, preventing a power vacuum, forward positioning... the usual stuff.

We've got 52,000 in Germany. That's close to half of what we have now in Afghanistan. What is their purpose? It's not as if they are running around bayoneting Germans.

IF (IF... that's IF) a reasonable degree of stability can be reached in Afghanistan to allow development of a credible Afghani civil society, then I would guess the theory is to help maintain that stability.

Pessimistically? Yes, sure, you can label it Imperialism, but it's not as if we are running around dictating to the Germans, Japanese, Koreans, etc. how to run their affairs at the point of a gun. S. Korea is still working on schedule to assume primary responsibility for their security, but that's a tall order given the potential consequences of instability there - and, yes, you can call that a "nuclear tripwire" if you want, but look at how far S. Korea has come on their own. We're not always as bad as we can be, and have been.

[No Elephants]

83. You did not answer your own question: What is the purpose of 52,000 troops in Germany? It's not

deterrence, stability, preventing a power vacuum, or forward positioning.

Also, I don't think the "worst case" you gave is really the worst case at all.

[KlondikeAnnie]

29. The real purpose has never changed

It continues to be:

Oil pipeline, opium crop, minerals, and proximity to Iran (expect US or Israel to attack soon).

[Hydra]

68. Welcome to DU

And fine points of what the people at the top consider "important."

[spooked911]

81. Also-- keeping the military-industrial complex going and giving jollies

To the extremely sick elites who rule us.

[stockholmer]

46. 1-the heroin trade,overseen by the CIA & US Military, 2- $1+ trillion in natural resources, 3- de-

stablize the whole region to further push the war machine forward.

[Booster]

4. And just when I was thinking these wars really aren't about

oil after all. <sigh>

[OnlinePoker]

22. Actually, in Afghanistan, it's rare earth metals (Lithium, primarily)

http://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/afghanistan-mineral-discovery-a-1-trillion-find/2553

[Booster]

24. Oh. Well, then, nevermind.

[awoke_in_2003]

73. actually, oil also...

the pipeline goes through afghanistan.

[Lasher]

5. Not a surprise.

Neocons made no secret about their desire to stay in Afghanistan forever. Both GWB and Obama have been receptive to their ideology.

[RKP5637]

6. American Imperialism continues, alive and well. Wonder how many more

countries we'll be in by 2024.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mosaic]

8. Gotta keep up that american revolution

I'm so tired of this shit.

[bvar22]

10. And THAT is EXACTLY what he campaigned on!!!

Permanent Military Occupation of the Middle East!


You just weren't paying attention!




Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
I WILL!!

You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[crikkett]

12. I did not see this coming when I voted for the man based on his promise to end the wars. n/t

[OnlinePoker]

25. He did not promise to end the war in Afghanistan

Campaigning for President, he called for expansion of attacks into Pakistan.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/01/AR2007080101233.html

[krabigirl]

13. this is absolutely terrible.

[ClarkUSA]

16. "may"? BTW, Panetta just said the Pentagon will end U.S. military operations in Iraq as scheduled.

From his Stars and Stripes interview:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=751126&mesg_id=751163

Combat troops will be withdrawn from Afghanistan on schedule unless President Obama decides otherwise and he hasn't indicated any change of heart.

[xchrom]

18. Recommend

[indepat]

20. Wow, a presence until 2024, if man is still alive, will take beau-coup funding from either

other nations or making really deep cuts in social security and Medicare benefits since it's almost as good as money in the bank that the uber-wealthy and large corporations will continue their 30+-year spree gorging themselves by sucking at the public welfare teat and: MIC funding will continue to grow exponentially. If so, look for US mortality rates to spike handsomely and longevity to drop like a boulder as the RW PNAC wet dream reaches fruition and the nation slides inevitably into a 3rd-world-like status for most of the people. :patriot:

[ClarkUSA]

21. Outrage shit-stirring by The Telegraph, a right-wing Tory rag? I'll believe it when it happens.

Of course, any source will do for some people to believe what "may" happen, according to a right-wing conservative rag, is actually going to happen.

[cstanleytech]

26. Well it wont surprise me if its true as only someone really gullible

would believe we would be able to invade a country controlled by some assholes and then pull out our troops within a handful of years with the belief that the country would remain stable and not fall back under control of the assholes.

[Purveyor]

27. Any 'agreement' with Afghanistan isn't worth the paper it is written on. Besides, the USA will be

bankrupt and in a state similar to the failed Soviet Union well before 2024.

[Little Star]

28. Barack Obama and Hamid Karzai agreed last week to escalate the negotiations ..

This sounds pretty real to me!

From the Telegraph article:

"Both Afghan and American officials said that they hoped to sign the pact before the Bonn Conference on Afghanistan in December. Barack Obama and Hamid Karzai agreed last week to escalate the negotiations and their national security advisers will meet in Washington in September."
**********************************************************************************************************

Obama wants this signed sealed and delivered!

Yeah!!!! The United States troops to remain in the country until "at least 2024". WTF

[MannyGoldstein]

30. No shit?

Pretty surprising.

[saras]

32. This is a duplicate thread -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4966984

was posted an hour earlier

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our third quarter 2011 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Click here to donate

[placton]

34. US troops may stay in Afghanistan until 2024

Source: The Daily Telegraph


America and Afghanistan are close to signing a strategic pact which would allow thousands of United States troops to remain in the country until at least 2024, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

The agreement would allow not only military trainers to stay to build up the Afghan army and police, but also American special forces soldiers and air power to remain.


The prospect of such a deal has already been met with anger among Afghanistan’s neighbours including, publicly, Iran and, privately, Pakistan.


It also risks being rejected by the Taliban and derailing any attempt to coax them to the negotiating table, according to one senior member of Hamid Karzai’s peace council.


Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8712701/US-troops-may-stay-in-Afghanistan-until-2024.html

---

Another brilliant foreign policy move by our Nobel Peace Prize Prez! Luckily, we have no use for this money, or these troops' lives, back in the US

[ClarkUSA]

35. "may"?? What a joke! Unrec for 100% rumor-based OP via the right-wing Tory Telegraph rag.

Of course, there are always people who will treat a right-wing rag's rumor as fact so they can attack the President for something he hasn't said he'd do.

[libmom74]

38. Did you actually read

the article or do you just look at anything that casts an unfavorable light on Obama and unrec it?

[Divernan]

40. You must be new here, or you wouldn't even ask.

Of course you noticed as well that there was not a single specific fact or quote challenged.

[awoke_in_2003]

74. oh, we should just chill the fuck out and all...

god, that pic is childish and condescending.

[slay]

65. self-delete

sorry got my pro-Obama bots confused. you're right - and the guy who said "you must be new here" was out of line.

[Fool Count]

36. That could be a bit presumptuous and optimistic.

There may not even be a US by 2024.

[lib2DaBone]

37. The United States will be bankrupt and crumble long before 2024...

.. the irony.. is that WE were the ones who trained Afghanistan how to bankrupt the Russians.

[awoke_in_2003]

75. we didn't have to train them...

they have a long history of crushing empires.

[Divernan]

39. This proposed pact is reason for intensified Taliban attacks.

From the OP link:
Andrey Avetisyan, Russian ambassador to Kabul, said: “Afghanistan needs many other things apart from the permanent military presence of some countries. It needs economic help and it needs peace. Military bases are not a tool for peace.

“I don’t understand why such bases are needed. If the job is done, if terrorism is defeated and peace and stability is brought back, then why would you need bases? “If the job is not done, then several thousand troops, even special forces, will not be able to do the job that 150,000 troops couldn’t do. It is not possible.”

A complete withdrawal of foreign troops has been a precondition for any Taliban negotiations with Mr Karzai’s government and the deal would wreck the currently distant prospect of a negotiated peace, Mr Avetisyan said.

Abdul Hakim Mujahid, deputy leader of the peace council set up by Mr Karzai to seek a settlement, said he suspected the Taliban had intensified their insurgency in response to the prospect of the pact. “They want to put pressure on the world community and Afghan government,” he said.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8712701/US-troops-may-stay-in-Afghanistan-until-2024.html

The Nobel Committee should demand Obama return the peace prize.

[Divernan]

41. Excellent comments following the article:

"And all this miracle took was shooting dead only one member of the Karzai family. Bravo, America!"
____________________________________
“We know we will be confronted with international terrorists. 2014, is not the
end of international terrorist networks and we have a common commitment to
fight them."
____________________________________
Read "international terrorists" as anybody who doesn't accept the might of the true international terrorists, the Banksters. They swear no allegiance to any nation, only to mammon.
___________________________________________
Rome never brought their troops home, they caused to much trouble being out of work and drinking and carousing.
So they just rotated them out again, endlessly.
Some things never change, like weapons trained jobless people becoming gangsters like in the Roaring Twenties.
Our guys will not come back until we can provide jobs for them.
Lessons to be learned.
____________________________________________
Enough already. We will not change their culture nor will we even bring them close to the 16th century. We are all prisoners of the military industrial complex and most don't even know it.

[buckrogers1965]

47. Want our soldiers home?

Vote for Ron Paul. Dr Paul is the only candidate saying he will bring our soldiers home.

[Skink]

42. Hopefully at that time we'll have some ski resorts.

[dogmoma56]

43. no matter when we leave the same things will happen. so lets leave now., save our soldiers lives and

save about 5 Trilion dollars and over 10,000 soldiers lives and hundreds of thousands of soldiers lives and families totally ruined for ever...... :cry:

[Plucketeer]

44. When the fu*k

do the people who will foot the bill for all this get a say????? Fu*king USED again. I feel like the receiving side of a glory hole. :grr:

[Fearless]

45. Yeah Mr. President!! Stick it to em!!!

...Oh wait... :wtf:

[daleo]

48. 2024? Why not 20240? n/t

[Javaman]

50. so many people fail to understand this simple little phrase...

WE. ARE. NEVER. LEAVING.

I honestly can't figure out why people don't understand that.

The US builds a embassy city in Iraq larger than vatican city and the citizens are surprised when the pull out date is continually pushed forward. And yes, I'm talking about Afghanistan.

The US has build it's capital of the Eastern American Empire in Iraq to over see all the various US interests in that part of the world. Afghanistan is our outpost on the far eastern frontier. That is the last place we are going to abandon.

the only way the US will leave is when our economy collapses or the populations finally has enough and overthrows the government.

Think of Afghanistan as our India as it was to Britain.

[Amonester]

51. With What money?

[jimlup]

52. That is assuming there still is a "United States" in 2024

I'm not trying to be intentionally glib. I think we are in big trouble and I don't know when that trouble will end. I think the "slow emergency" may actually have ended the "United States" as the entity we know today by then - I really do.

[LetTimmySmoke]

53. Not voting for Obama in 2012.

Done.

[slay]

64. Same here

i'm writing in Bernie Sanders if nothing good shows up on my ballot.

[grahamhgreen]

54. HEY HEY LBJ, how many kids did you kill today? Remember that?

[SaveAmerica]

55. Remember the soldiers who stopped re upping when Bush was in office? We'll go back to those kind of

enlistment numbers. They dropped off after Fahrenheit 9/11 exposed the truth of abuses of servicemembers and Iraq and Afghanistan and then increased after Obama won. I'm hoping that if this does happen, their is an exodus of servicemembers. Their have been some families that have been deployed 3 and 4 times in as little as 6 years, they've had it.

Also, this is just more money in KBR's (I mean Cheney's) pocket. I'm sick of all of this.

[Fumesucker]

58. A soldier killed himself the other day after *six* deployments..

I think three or four deployments is closer to the average and not the maximum.

[SaveAmerica]

82. Will we ever see BushCheney serve time for this? I don't have any words anymore.

[tawadi]

56. At what cost?

Not only financially. But in human lives?

[pam4water]

59. 2024 that's crazy talk.... I hope.

[panzerfaust]

60. 2042, more like

[fujiyama]

61. Hell we STILL have bases in Japan and Germany

and we decisively WON that war over 60 years ago...and the war after that (the Cold War) about 20 years ago (that was the supposed reason we maintained a presence in those countries right?).

This plan isn't a surprise in the least. Though the major difference is, we're more in the situation of the Soviet Union after Afghanistan. I don't see how the hell this country can afford it, but then again our government will always make a priority of this sort of thing.

[glinda]

62. If we knew the majority of US citizens opposed these occupations, we should raise money and

hire planes and helicopters to bring them home. I mean, what will the Government do if the "majority of the people" want them out. Just wishful thinking.

[slay]

63. I won't vote for anyone who won't commit to ending the wars NOW

from now on, i'm voting my conscience. i will not vote for more war. can't do it.

[spooked911]

79. Amen. I'm with you brother.

[onehandle]

66. Let me rewrite that: 'US troops will stay in Afghanistan and Iraq FOREVER'

See: Korea.

[Amonester]

85. and Iran FOREVER (if the teaRoarist is selected in 2012)

It's in theiR hidden agenda.

(War On Lies, the sequel.)

[humblebum]

69. If I recall correctly, it was announced at the start of "the War on Terror"

that it was going to last 30 or so years. It's pretty clear that a plan is being played out here and that Americans' opinions are being treated with absolute indifference. We seriously need to be asking "who is really in charge?"
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan! That's my opinion for what it is worth. Not one more life or dollar.

[Cherchez la Femme]

70. The U.S. courted the Taliban prior to 9/11

We went in there to 'get Osama'.

Osama left, still we stayed, and now the 'enemy' is the Taliban.

Mission creep in action,

and lives.

[paparush]

71. I'll say it again, we're living through George Bush's Third Term.

for fuck's sake.

[Jim_Shorts]

76. Maybe we can build another 104 acre embassy in Afuckustan

Operating costs are 1.2 billion a year on the one in Iraq.

Halliburton was losing money until Cheney got to the white house and scrounged up a few odd jobs no one wanted.

[spooked911]

77. The HELL we are!!!! We need to protest this shit now!

October2011.org

[SHRED]

78. Well General Atomics needs to build Drones afterall

[pasto76]

80. It shouldnt surprise anyone that we want a projection platform in east asia.

we lost our spots in Saudi, and with that part of the world causing all kinds of trouble, sure is handy to have a platform there.

In a fantasy world where my troops are not acting as police and chasing ghosts, doesnt sound so bad.

[bluebuzzard]

84. Confronting the Military-Industrial-Complex: The MIC at 50

http://warisacrime.org/content/confronting-military-industrial-complex-mic-50

Cant wait to see the highlight on the MSM.